Speedy vs Regular (Players forcing Speedy Runs on Regular Teams Needs to End)

[Solarverse]

So this isn't something new. This is something my wife and I have experienced several times, more than I can count and this type of behavior needs to end.

 

There seems to be a growing number of players who will join Task Forces (that are not advertised as "Speedy" but instead advertised as +1, +2, +3 or KM's or Regulars) and then they attempt to rush to the end or force the team to Speedy through the Task Forces like they would any other Speedy Run. I run probably 5 to 6 Task Forces a day, and every single last one of them (no exaggeration) I have to explain to somebody that "Hey, this is not a Speedy run, please at least clear a path to the end rather than just run straight to the end."

Most often players are cool with that and we continue with no further issues. Tonight was completely different.

As most of us know, there is a bug in which if a player enters a mission before the team leader zones in to the zone of where that mission is, regardless of what you have the settings adjusted to, the mobs will default to +0. So before we even start a Task Force, we explain this bug to the team (seems hardly nobody is aware of it and doubts the authenticity of this bug) and ask that nobody enters the mission door until I (or my wife, depending on who is leading) enters the zone of that mission. Well, it never fails, there is always somebody who enters the mission door before I can zone, typically somebody who plays speedy, so they know al of the tricks to be the first to zone, and they enter the mission.

Once I enter the mission and I see the mobs are set to Zero, I like to point out that the mobs are now +0 and I explain to them why that happened. Typically, that settles any debate on the bug because now the players have seen it happen for themselves...nobody can ever just believe you, they have to bug it out for themselves to believe it.

 

However, tonight when this happened, it somehow devolved in to, "You can't tell me how to play, I play Speedy and you can't expect others to play the way you want them to."

 

Unbelievable! So what if I joined a Speedy and discovered some way to slow it down and did so even though it was advertised as Speedy, then when the leader complains that I am slowing it down, my response is, "You can't tell me how to play, I play Slow and you can't expect others to play the way you want them to."

Why is it okay to dictate to others and force them to play Speedy on a regular team that likes to play more challenging with better XP mobs, but it's not okay for the team leader to ask somebody to not force their team in to Speedy Mode?

This whole Speedy thing is starting to spew in to regular teams and it is creating a straight up toxic environment. This ended up turning in to a very heated argument in which lead to me one starring this player and he will not be welcome back to any Task Force I start up in the future.

 

What I do not understand is that there are countless teams out there running Speedy Runs, there is no need to join a regular run and try to force it to be Speedy, then turn around and get a bad attitude when somebody asks you to stop. I'm not sure what can be done about it, I think my wife and I are doing about the only thing that can be done about it by ensuring these players will not be welcome back. Mind you, not the players who apologize and play normal, but the ones who get attitude and get toxic over it.

Awareness perhaps could help, not everyone wants to play their way, not everyone wants to Speedy everything to death, some players like to play at a normal pace which is why I start my own Task Forces in the first place instead of joining theirs. What is completely unbelievable is when I, the Leader of the Team, who took the time to build the team, who did not advertise as a Speedy, am being told that I am trying to control players. No, it is them who is trying to control the pace of the team by forcing that team to be Speedy. They join a regular team and try to force others to play as they want them to play. This is toxic and needs to end one way or another.

Thoughts?

 

 

 

Edited September 27, 2023 by Solarverse

[Glacier Peak]

Play on Indomitable - you won't have to worry about teammates 😆 

[Shred Monkey]

Even when on speed runs, I generally stay with the team and don't skip ahead even though my toons can handle pretty much everything.  I play the game for the combat mechanics, not for speed.  So why wold I skip fights?  And, to be totally honest, I'm horrible at navigating caves, squeezing through doors, and finding glowies.

 

That said, I think it should be mentioned that in hundreds if not 1000s of runs, I've never seen a non-speed MLTF, in case that's involved in this issue at all.  It's simply not something people do.

[Hedgefund]

One word - /kick

 

And for the record I was on a non-speed, +4 MLTF Sunday night.

[Uun]

3 hours ago, Solarverse said:

"You can't tell me how to play, I play Speedy and you can't expect others to play the way you want them to."

You're the team leader. If the TF was advertised as KM or non-speed, you have every right to kick someone who refuses to abide by that.

 

That said, there are certain TFs that are quite long if you don't speed/stealth certain missions (Synapse, Manticore, LGTF) and people have come to expect them to be run that way. I would be very clear at the start that you don't intend to do that.

[Psi-bolt]

27 minutes ago, Uun said:

You're the team leader. If the TF was advertised as KM or non-speed, you have every right to kick someone who refuses to abide by that.

 

That said, there are certain TFs that are quite long if you don't speed/stealth certain missions (Synapse, Manticore, LGTF) and people have come to expect them to be run that way. I would be very clear at the start that you don't intend to do that.

 

I agree with all of this.  I do think that if you want to do a KM for a TF that is normally sped through at certain points like Manticore, then the team leader should be VERY clear on that point while recruiting and prior to starting the TF.

Edited September 27, 2023 by Psi-bolt

[cranebump]

It is perfectly reasonable to ask that people not go through the door until the leader zones. I've run with Blapperella (I'm most likely misspelling that, sorry) on their flashback TFs several times, and this is a standard announcement given at the beginning of the TFs, and when we switch zones. Never witnessed someone screwing that up at all, much less screwing it up, then being unapologetic about it. That person got called out, didn't like being wrong (or being called out), and was trying to twist the circumstances to where they were right. A plain ol' apology would've sufficed. And I agree you'd be well within your rights to kick them, though I'd give them a private warning after the first offense. 

[Etched]

I speed most all tfs that I solo or duo with a good friend. However, once i hit pugland, the second thing I say/ask "kill all or speed?".

If I get no answer (happens a lot more then you realize) I assume it's a kill all until the leader shows me otherwise.

1 hour ago, Glacier Peak said:

Play on Indomitable - you won't have to worry about teammates 😆 

I started out on Indom and man this is sooo true. However, when it came to Hami the league was full before i could sneeze. 

 

Now I play on Torch and it's not really any different at the time I am able to play which is mostly always in the AM.

 

@Etched

[Without_Pause]

I feel like I see KM mentioned most for ITF. I also tend to see ones being run speedy mentioned as such. If you want a non-speed version run and you are the team lead, mention it again when you have your team together and see if it is okay with people. 

[Without_Pause]

1 minute ago, Etched said:

I speed most all tfs that I solo or duo with a good friend. However, once i hit pugland, the second thing I say/ask "kill all or speed?".

If I get no answer (happens a lot more then you realize) I assume it's a kill all until the leader shows me otherwise.

I started out on Indom and man this is sooo true. However, when it came to Hami the league was full before i could sneeze. 

 

Now I play on Torch and it's not really any different at the time I am able to play which is mostly always in the AM.

 

@Etched

When I was on Indom, I could be logged on for hours and about the only thing I saw being advertised was Level 50 content. In rare cases, something else was posted in LFG.

[Etched]

30 minutes ago, Without_Pause said:

When I was on Indom, I could be logged on for hours and about the only thing I saw being advertised was Level 50 content. In rare cases, something else was posted in LFG.

I was lucky though and have good friends. When I packed all my toons so did they. 

 

Wait... 

Indom has a LFG channel? Would of never known whan I was playin there. LOL

 

@Etched

[JasperStone]

Play according to how it is advertised or prepare to be kicked.

OR

If you choose to change parameters as we start be prepared for some departures.

 

I have experienced the latter more and more as of late.

"Mind if we go +2?" 1st mission pops up

"Mind if we go +4" 1st mission pops up

 

 

 

 

[Snarky]

I tend to play it by ear joining teams.  I prefer most content at +0 and "at a good clip"   I do not say speed.  I have seen true speed runners.  I absolutely can not keep up.  Or if I can I am arriving as the fight as over.  Keeping pace with the team and providing NO assistance.  Yet I do know the content and move at a good clip.  I have heard some people complain I go too fast.  Perception is everything, but I know what "true" speedruns are.  I cannot do them.  

 

I like ITF at +4, but I still want the team moving along.  If a team cannot get through a +4 ITF kill most at a decent slip there are issues.  In my opinion.  I have been on many an SG team that have done the ITF (+0) at under 15 minutes, and the speedrunners in that group had posted and verified times in the single digits.  I think 6-8 min?  Not my record, do not remember.  

 

When I lead TF/SF teams I almost always run at +0 and advertise as "quick runs", or "as fast as we can" or maybe "speedy-ish"  again, I do not consider what I do speed running.  just, fast...  Get in, hit the mission requirements, move on.  Sightseeing is for people who have not played the game a long time.  Solo it if you want to read, or make your own team.

 

When joining other teams, unless a kill most/kill all, I will try to move things along.  Stay "near" the team, but try to get the goals done.  Team awareness is important.  A good example is the Tarikoss.  Some of those missions just need 1-2 peeps.  Some you split up to find objectives.  One, with Longbow, you need to have good team awareness, and good objective awareness.  You only split one or two stalkerish peeps off as scouts.  Stay together....it is faster.  I like fast.

[Solarverse]

@Snarky

 

Yeah, we don't do Speed Runs at all, we do not do Speedy or any other speed. If somebody is forming a TF I will ask them what level they are running it. Posi through Synapse, if they say anything less than +1, we decline. Pen Yin through Numina, if they say anything less than +2, we decline. We hate speed runs regardless of our character levels, even at 50. We simply cannot enjoy running missions where mobs die just by looking at them...literally. Team kills them so fast we barely get a chance to see what the team is killing...not fun to us, not even a little bit. So we avoid "Speedy" TF's like the plague, lol.
 

When I asked the player I was heated with, "How would you like if I came in to your Speedy run and slowed it down?" after they told me I can't control how players play...they responded with, "Good luck with that." My wife and I read that and laughed, because we both know that some missions cannot progress until all players have exited the mission...if we wanted, we could join a speedy and then clear the map after everyone else exits...thus slowing down the Speedy to a crawl. However, we don't...that would be extremely rude, just as I feel speedy players trying to force our TF's along is equally rude. Glad you go with the flow, we would get along just fine, heh. I would be surprised if we have not already teamed together and just didn't realize it if you PUG at all.

 

 

Edited September 27, 2023 by Solarverse

[lemming]

I assume "not slow", but depends on team composition.  And if the lead wants clear to objective, then that's the pace we'll go at.  They're the one who put stuff together and I prefer to encourage people who lead.

 

KM on ITFs are pretty standard just because that's a mine of XP.  Heck, you can get nearly a level just by clearing after defeating Rom.

 

Speed runs can be interesting when you've done specific content a bunch of times and you want to see what can be shaved, but again, the lead sets the pace.

 

Add:   I tend to wait until the lead exits the mission to exit.

Edited September 27, 2023 by lemming

[Ghost]

Don’t know if it’s the same guy or not, but I was once on a +4 KM ITF

This particular brute (I think it was) ran off fast as he could while the leader told him “not a speed run”.  He would run into mobs, aggro and die.  He had no rez so he would quickly hit the hospital, come back and repeat the process over and over again.

None of us got upset because it was so funny to watch.

 

Anyways, it is annoying to see players completely ignore the leaders requests and run off to do their own thing.  
After a warning, they should get booted.  Simple.

[tidge]

No comments to be made on the following posts, just using them to springboard:

 

3 hours ago, Without_Pause said:

I feel like I see KM mentioned most for ITF. I also tend to see ones being run speedy mentioned as such.

 

22 minutes ago, lemming said:

KM on ITFs are pretty standard just because that's a mine of XP.  Heck, you can get nearly a level just by clearing after defeating Rom.

 

I can never say with certainty what the "M" stands for in "KM" (in the context of ITF, Yin TF, Manticore TF, whatever):

• "M = Many", whatever gets in the way to the objective and exit as soon as mission completes
• "M= Maybe", Toss some AoE and run past survivors to get to the glowie/final room.
• "M = Most", We can split up and even backtrack for XP or *gasp* stay past mission conclusion
• "M = My targets", Imma boss, auto-target through me (only once do I recall this instruction outside of Incarnate arcs)

I've had leaders explicitly say that they wanted to "kill most" but would have a meltdown if a spawn that wasn't in the direct line of the objective was dragged into the fighting. I have no real preference (and if I do, it will change depending on circumstances), but if the team isn't having any trouble and folks are commenting about the XP in a positive way... the more the merrier!

I like:

• "M = Mellow" watch how the team is doing, don't be in a hurry but don't let the missions drag painfully. (often seen on low level TFs set such that folks just can't hit enemies)

I decided to spring off the ITF comments because (a) they were there, and (b) there are several maps where a LOT (possibly more than half) of the critters aren't engaged with.

 

[DoctorDitko]

The most fun I had on a TF was an ITF I led, advertised as "World's Slowest ITF."

 

Wound up with a mellow, quippy crew, some of whom even became friends.

 

I'd say your runner was a rude, stubborn jerk!

But the whole damn world seems to be suffering from a plague of rude, stubborn jerks! 

[PeregrineFalcon]

10 hours ago, Solarverse said:

However, tonight when this happened, it somehow devolved in to, "You can't tell me how to play, I play Speedy and you can't expect others to play the way you want them to."

Stuff like this has happened to me exactly twice in all the years I played CoH.

 

In both cases I instantly kicked the person and then wrote in team chat "I am the leader of this team. You will follow my directions or I will kick all of you like I just kicked that guy. Now, we all good?" In both cases we continued on, I didn't have to kick anyone else, and we had a great time. Strong leaders make great teams.

 

Advertise your team as "Slow/kill most", repeat that in team chat right before you start the Task Force, and then ruthlessly kick anyone who refuses to follow directions. Your teaming experience, and that of everyone else on the team, will be much improved.

[Solarverse]

2 hours ago, tidge said:

No comments to be made on the following posts, just using them to springboard:

 

 

 

I can never say with certainty what the "M" stands for in "KM" (in the context of ITF, Yin TF, Manticore TF, whatever):

• "M = Many", whatever gets in the way to the objective and exit as soon as mission completes
• "M= Maybe", Toss some AoE and run past survivors to get to the glowie/final room.
• "M = Most", We can split up and even backtrack for XP or *gasp* stay past mission conclusion
• "M = My targets", Imma boss, auto-target through me (only once do I recall this instruction outside of Incarnate arcs)

I've had leaders explicitly say that they wanted to "kill most" but would have a meltdown if a spawn that wasn't in the direct line of the objective was dragged into the fighting. I have no real preference (and if I do, it will change depending on circumstances), but if the team isn't having any trouble and folks are commenting about the XP in a positive way... the more the merrier!

I like:

• "M = Mellow" watch how the team is doing, don't be in a hurry but don't let the missions drag painfully. (often seen on low level TFs set such that folks just can't hit enemies)

I decided to spring off the ITF comments because (a) they were there, and (b) there are several maps where a LOT (possibly more than half) of the critters aren't engaged with.

 

 

Kill Most to me means clear a reasonable path to the boss, but no need to go completely out of the way.

[Spaghetti Betty]

The person in question definitely had some kind of ego trip. I have no idea who they are, but there's no absolutely no reason to join a team if you're doing it to solo.

 

Anyone that has teamed with me where I'm on point can attest to the fact that I get really jumpy and I can up the pace really quickly while still adhering to the team's overall objective. If the leader wants to speed, I'm the speediest cheetah in the land. If we're doing a Kill Most, we are still getting done in record time, but everything will be dead. I've seriously been told to slow down on a Kill Most ITF because the leader couldn't keep up with how fast I was simply herding mobs. Don't Speed Boost me then!

[Songseven]

yep had some blaster rush to core during respec's last week, i knew they were up to something as we made our way thru, map is blank,

 

as we approached room before core i managed to click on it and was able to see it just hitting zero HP,

 

had just enough time to get off an "idiot.."

 

mission fails, blaster quits before we even zoned.

 

so yeah, read the room, if you wanna go off do your own thing, why even join teams.

[Snarky]

2 hours ago, Solarverse said:

 

Kill Most to me means clear a reasonable path to the boss, but no need to go completely out of the way.

Kill most for me....Take my Brute and wander, kill most of what I find. When the team finishes w/e objective thingys they were doing a "mission complete" will pop up...

Edited September 27, 2023 by Snarky

[Solarverse]

28 minutes ago, Snarky said:

Kill most for me....Take my Brute and wander, kill most of what I find. When the team finishes w/e objective thingys they were doing a "mission complete" will pop up...

 

Stop wandering off behind little animals picking up droppings, Snarky. It's a bad look for Vampires.

[shortguy on indom]

Play on Indomitable - you won't have to worry about teammates 😆


Indom rules!!

Folks have left, but I will be the last to go.
Gotta go where you fit.

And heya!