General Chat is an open sewer.

Relvinian · February 16

Now that Homecoming is licensed by NCsoft to run and develop the game isn't it time that the open sewer which is general discussion is cleaned up?

Without going in to too much detail I was highly offended the other day by some comments in the general chat. They were opposite of what I believe in politicially, morally, and they had nothing whatsoever to do with the game. And it went on and one with multiple participants. I made the mistake of pushing back against the narrative they were pusihing. Then they started calling me hater, bigot, all that stuff. And telling people to globaly ignore me.

Some did. Now what is the purpose of general chat? Shouldn't it be to discuss, general things, or game related things, etc. But it should not be a place where you can be offensive and then if anyone complains or push back they offensive people encourage people to globaly ignore you.

The obvious solution is to remove the general chat but with each new character it resets and you have to remove it again. Also, with every person joining the game for the first time they don't know how to remove general chat and they get to hear about how someone was abused as a kid, how Christians are bigoted, insulting Jesus Christ, whatever flavor of politics or, sorry to say woke, that someone wants to vomit on you.

My suggestion is to police the thing or to make it off by default and let someone turn it on if they choose.

Thoughts? Suggestion? And if you want to come at me as a person because of this post-- fine-- because i never said anything hateful previously and all i did was push back. Here we can see it plain as day and there will be a record of what is said.

Yes, I am a Christian. Yes my views may be different than yours but everyone has different views.

Haijinx · February 16

My suggestion is to edit chat channel tabs in such a way that you leave General out.

I do with every new character and it makes for a much friendlier game experience.

JasperStone · February 16

Put General Chat into a separate Tab.

Remove it from every other Tab.

That is what I do.

If someone is spewing stuff, ask them to stop.

If they persist, either block or report and block.

Reminder...it IS General Chat.

cranebump · February 16

People don’t engage with the same level of manners as they do in person. I don’t know why, because manners are manners, but they do. We also live in the age of “because I believe X, I must be right (and therefore must remain unchallenged).” You get a mob of people together who think that way, they erect walls, and shut people out in order to keep their bubbles clean and comfortable. Nature of the echo chamber beast these days, my friend. I left two rpg sites, ironically due to being middle of the road politically. I once had to report a user on a baseball discussion website for attacking a pair of users for being teachers (and “indoctrinating our youth”).*

These days? I just don’t take any bait, either way. And here, my default settings have General just OFF. There’s enough ambient yowling from the fringes everywhere else. I’m not sure why people feel the need to bring it to their video game world. Especially one that puts heroism at the forefront. Intolerance is not heroic. Yet, how often do we see people exercise it IRL, while somehow thinking they’re protecting it?

*man, don’t they know kids don’t listen to anything?:-)

Edited February 16 by cranebump

electric_emu · February 16

I don’t think I have ever made it more than 15 minutes with General Chat visible to me. To me it serves no purpose other than making me angry at people I don’t even know.

Do yourself a favor and hide it. The game will feel MUCH more civil and welcoming.

Lunar Ronin · February 16

38 minutes ago, Haijinx said:

My suggestion is to edit chat channel tabs in such a way that you leave General out.

I do with every new character and it makes for a much friendlier game experience.

This is the answer. Not one character of mine has General in a chat tab, and it makes for a better game experience.

Relvinian · February 16

I do that now. Except, that deprives me of my voice in the game while leaving the ones spewing garbage free to speak.

New players who have never played the game before see it by default.

Is that what we as a community (I've been here for years) want to be the first impression of us?

JasperStone · February 16

You control what you see.

That applies to games and social media.

I have been part of great conversations in General.

When toxic, racist etc. crap pops up

They are reported and blocked if a request to stop is ignored.

Therefore, I have had a great general chat experience.

Sovera · February 16

This is in all games. I'm surprised you even have general chat on.

Lunar Ronin · February 16

3 minutes ago, Relvinian said:

I do that now. Except, that deprives me of my voice in the game while leaving the ones spewing garbage free to speak.

New players who have never played the game before see it by default.

Is that what we as a community (I've been here for years) want to be the first impression of us?

It's just the way of MMORPGs now. Every online game's open chat is a sewer. SWTOR? Sewer. WoW? Sewer. You just learn to ignore it, preferably by removing the chat channel(s) entirely.

Also, you mentioned above of needing to remove General from every character. You don't need to do that. Go to Options > Windows, and at the bottom is an option to save your chat tabs as you have them. Do that. Then you can load it the same way on every character you have, and every character you make in the future will automatically not have General.

Relvinian · February 16

7 minutes ago, Lunar Ronin said:

It's just the way of MMORPGs now. Every online game's open chat is a sewer. SWTOR? Sewer. WoW? Sewer. You just learn to ignore it, preferably by removing the chat channel(s) entirely.

Also, you mentioned above of needing to remove General from every character. You don't need to do that. Go to Options > Windows, and at the bottom is an option to save your chat tabs as you have them. Do that. Then you can load it the same way on every character you have, and every character you make in the future will automatically not have General.

Good tip, new players do not know this. New players still see this garbage and the sensible ones have turned off the general chat while the ones who do use it are representing the server to new players.

Number Six · February 16

Also if you DO see someone whose behavior is over the line, please open a support ticket, preferably with screenshots or chat logs that include timestamps. The GM team can't monitor chat 24/7 and relies on player reports to know when they need to step in and calm things down.

Even if that particular instance ends up being determined that it's not egregious enough for immediate action, it does build a record of repeat offenders and affects future decisions.

Water · February 16

Any amount of moron can protest anything they want in general chat which isn't really game specific, just 'general' chat. A social conversation facility. Speaking of facility, g/ignore is a facility. Even though some ~~keyboard warriors~~ players like to project threat of g/ignore it is as much a facility as any game UI - NOT A PUNISHMENT - , ignore those whom you find offensive, temporarily, ignore the copy pasta uncreatives, ignore the spammers and all manner of tasteless, incongruent wiffle waffle that you desire. It is your game for you to ignore whosoever you wish to.

Often I have seen changes of mind in attitude in general. Many of us custodians of the game will be first to point out intense tastelessness, reminding other players that there are children who play our game also. Many friendships have been made through general chat an it remains a means of open contact and expression. Remove it and there will be a small vacuum in the game, I mean, how will we be able to lead the unlearned?

Suggesting removing that which you can easily ignore is a stretch. Using ignore as a threat - well - if someone would ignore another person at the behest of a stirrer then I would want that idiot to ignore me.

InvaderStych · February 16

18 minutes ago, Number Six said:

Also if you DO see someone whose behavior is over the line, please open a support ticket, preferably with screenshots or chat logs that include timestamps.

This is the only correct answer.

Report the behavior, let the GMs decide, and move on with your day. Nothing is gained from arguing with people in a video game chat window.

Luminara · February 16

22 minutes ago, cranebump said:

People don’t engage with the same level of manners as they do in person. I don’t know why

Overreliance on net.cops. It used to be that someone starting shit would be verbally murdered in a heartbeat, but the Internet culture evolved toward moderation instead of repercussion. A consequence of that change is that fewer people will step up to deal with someone if they're crossing the line, because they expect an authority figure to handle it, or because they've been punished for taking action. Another consequence is that offenders have trained to believe that lack of immediate action by said authority figure equates to permissibility.

The social contract, that unwritten and unspoken agreement on which civilized behavior is founded, was amended in the digital medium, and people extending their elbow until they make violent contact with other peoples' noses feel free to continue, whereas the people with the bloodied noses believe they have to endure it until GM_Nana comes over to scold the elbowers.

skoryy · February 16

2 hours ago, Relvinian said:

They were opposite of what I believe in politicially, morally, and they had nothing whatsoever to do with the game. And it went on and one with multiple participants. I made the mistake of pushing back against the narrative they were pusihing. Then they started calling me hater, bigot, all that stuff. And telling people to globaly ignore me.

"General chat is a sewer because people disagree with me when I make political and moral declarations."

That's not a general chat problem, amigo. But at least I do have yet another account to add to my global ignore now.

cranebump · February 16

1 hour ago, Luminara said:

The social contract, that unwritten and unspoken agreement on which civilized behavior is founded, was amended in the digital medium, and people extending their elbow until they make violent contact with other peoples' noses feel free to continue, whereas the people with the bloodied noses believe they have to endure it until GM_Nana comes over to scold the elbowers.

Perhaps. Certainly a threat of retaliation might shift some folks off their soap box (I doubt it, though -- a lot of folks don't understand that there are limits to "free" speech). Of course, the social contract, in a community context like this one, is a stated code of conduct that we agree to when we enter the world and engage with others. I generally avoid engagement (and avoid General chat completely) for a few reasons, not the least among them is what Shaw said about wrestling a pig.:-)

What gets me in all this --not just here, but in the public in general -- is how swiftly people judge, and how eagerly and readily they remain ensconced in their judgment. In this situation (as I understand it), the complaint was that, however things began, the situation quickly descended into name calling, and then, a call for censure (blocking). Of course, I don't know what was said. None of us do. Which is why you end up getting the devs involved so they can suss it out. That's their job, in this environment. I can make it mine, but then I end up being like the thought police, wherever I go. And my thoughts have not been agreed upon as the the community standard (too bad...everyone would get pancakes).:-)

People are hasty. And I do think that being that swift on the trigger is, all around, part of the overall communications problem, in general (and in General). Hastiness is, at best, indicative of a lack of patience. At worst, it indicates rigid orthodoxy and a lack of empathy. Which can't help but bring out the worst in all of us.

Ridiculous Girl · February 16

general chat is general chat... discussions vary widely. but there are some lines that should not be crossed, politics is one of them. if there is offensive conversation going on, report them and ignore them. i find that as in all modern media, it is a very noisy minority that causes the most problems. luckily here we have mechanisms for managing that. i just wish i had an ignore button in real life. 😁

cranebump · February 16

Just now, Ridiculous Girl said:

general chat is general chat... discussions vary widely. but there are some lines that should not be crossed, politics is one of them. if there is offensive conversation going on, report them and ignore them. i find that as in all modern media, it is a very noisy minority that causes the most problems. luckily here we have mechanisms for managing that. i just wish i had an ignore button in real life. 😁

This.

Maelwys · February 16

3 hours ago, Luminara said:

Overreliance on net.cops. It used to be that someone starting shit would be verbally murdered in a heartbeat

Also in the BBS, Usenet and IRC eras, if someone actually made the effort to connect to the interwebs and join a particular subforum/group/etc then chances are they were invested enough to treat being shamed/excluded/banned as a bad thing; so it was a suitable deterrent.

Then over time, someone invented myspace and youtube comments and trolling somehow changed into a badge of honour; if not an outright art form.

Looking back through the rose-tinted lenses, I seem to recall the most the old CoH forums ever had to put up with was the odd "/jranger" and "Gone to the Americans!" interspersed with endless 😉 from Golden Girl. It was almost relaxing.
Sure, there was the occasional thread full of people completely freaking out over something objectively hilarious, such as someone spawning the Malta Titan on top of a Hamidon Raid. But in my defence it was just that one time and you all had it coming.

Edited February 16 by Maelwys

PeregrineFalcon · February 16

3 hours ago, Relvinian said:

Yes, I am a Christian. Yes my views may be different than yours but everyone has different views.

Your best bet is to just remove general chat from the chat window altogether.

And, speaking from personal experience, you won't get any help here on the forums. The woke don't police their own.

Snarky · February 16

I have this odd feeling I am one of the “offenders”. I say in general pretty much what i say here. I lost my filters some time ago.

I do not know why the OP brought up religion. Maybe to shine the light on the moral height they look down from. I would just point out the tremendous history of intolerance and persecution by almost every “religious group” in history. And the other “sins” regularly acted out by supposedly moral religious folks.

I do not find General offensive…generally. I have pretty thick skin. I did have a wild thing happen in broadcast ouro yesterday. I had just missed a MoDD. Someone started smack talking the person who had formed it. Maybe they missed it too? I informed them the person was one of Oklahoman’s alt, and that Oklahoman was much better liked in the community than…them. They responded, “what are you trying to say?” Me “youre an idiot”. (Subtlety was not working…) them “you know who i am. I am (i forget the nonsense mentioned) and you know where to fibd me in Hawaii. Say that to me in person”. Me “you really responded to game message with a lets meet in person and fight?” They were two terse private DMs sent to me. They did not make much sense. I think “boo” and “so”. I found the entire exchange amusing. Not terrifying, not insulting, not shocking…, I will always mention it when folks are acting dumb. It is 1) humorous 2) an opportunity to tell them to pull their pants up, they are in public

Frozen Burn · February 16

3 hours ago, Relvinian said:

Now that Homecoming is licensed by NCsoft to run and develop the game isn't it time that the open sewer which is general discussion is cleaned up?

Without going in to too much detail I was highly offended the other day by some comments in the general chat. They were opposite of what I believe in politicially, morally, and they had nothing whatsoever to do with the game. And it went on and one with multiple participants. I made the mistake of pushing back against the narrative they were pusihing. Then they started calling me hater, bigot, all that stuff. And telling people to globaly ignore me.

Some did. Now what is the purpose of general chat? Shouldn't it be to discuss, general things, or game related things, etc. But it should not be a place where you can be offensive and then if anyone complains or push back they offensive people encourage people to globaly ignore you.

The obvious solution is to remove the general chat but with each new character it resets and you have to remove it again. Also, with every person joining the game for the first time they don't know how to remove general chat and they get to hear about how someone was abused as a kid, how Christians are bigoted, insulting Jesus Christ, whatever flavor of politics or, sorry to say woke, that someone wants to vomit on you.

My suggestion is to police the thing or to make it off by default and let someone turn it on if they choose.

Thoughts? Suggestion? And if you want to come at me as a person because of this post-- fine-- because i never said anything hateful previously and all i did was push back. Here we can see it plain as day and there will be a record of what is said.

Yes, I am a Christian. Yes my views may be different than yours but everyone has different views.

Hi. I understand your frustration and there are times I too can't stand what is being stated in General Chat. However....

1. Freedom of speech - we all have a right to say our opinions and feelings, even if they are contrary to yours. Even you state this in your final sentence. So, you acknowledge this basic human right that everyone has - even if they are saying things contrary to your beliefs. Given that...

You did not have to engage in the conversation about things you did not like. You had a choice to ignore or engage - and you chose to engage. Choices have consequences - whether good or bad - action has a reaction. You received reactions that you are not happy with... but they are the consequences of your choice to engage. I am not defending their actions as they also had a choice to politely listen to your comments and be open to your view points to engage in polite discourse... but apparently, they did not. **IF they stated anything contrary to the EULA (harassment, threatening remarks, etc) - then report the individual(s). Some may report you, if you made such comments as well.

2. People will chat about all topics no matter what - even topics, ideologies, and state things you may not agree with. It's part of life no matter where you go, even in a game like this where there is open forums / chat channels. The General Chat channel is a place for that - otherwise, you WILL get that crap in the LFG channel (still do to some degree), or the Help Channel, Broadcast Channel, Request Channel, etc. It still happens in those channels occasionally but it would be even more so without the General Chat channel. So, this channel needs to stay.

3. "Policing" chat channels - No. It may be a normal thing where you are from, but the game is hosted and operated in areas that allow freedom of speech, as long as it doesn't violate the EULA. Additionally, it would also be a waste of Dev time and resources - and then who is to say one political/religious belief is okay and another isn't. Again, if someone says something that violates the EULA, then you can report them and the Devs will investigate and take appropriate action if need be. But otherwise people can chat about topics you may not like and say things that might offend you and they not be considered against the EULA.

4. You can easily remove the channel from your tab, as you have stated. Yes, you will have to do this for all your characters. But typically, one does this anyway as you add in global chat channels, so it's nothing to remove a channel upon character creation. Everyone else should not have to opt-in to something because you specifically had a bad encounter in Gen Chat.

When things like this happen and I can't stand what's being spouted in a chat channel... I turn it off so it doesn't impact my gaming experience. I'll turn it back on later when those people are gone. so I can listen to or engage in the more pleasant conversations.

When you watch TV and come across a show you do not like... you switch channels or turn off the TV and watch/do something else for a while. Same concept here.

5. You can also easily "Ignore" the person(s) and you will never see chat from them again. click on their name in chat and select "ignore." Simple.

DougGraves · February 16

I would say that if the advice of half of the players is to remove general chat and never see it - that would indicate a significant problem with general chat.

arcane · February 16

Out of curiosity, what server were you on?

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