Tips For Talking To New Players?

[Timeshadow]

Recently, I've found myself a little frustrated with some of our newer players. I understand we're all here to have fun and this community is exceedingly friendly by MMORPG standards, but I've run into several (seemingly) new players who just won't listen.

For example, there's that last mission on Posi1 with the CoT ambush at city hall. Multiple times now, I or a teammate have said, "Stay away from the door until we clear the stairs." Almost without fail these days, somebody hops on over to it and triggers the ambush anyway. Sometimes we wipe, sometimes we don't, but I've gotten in the habit of looking to see who does it. More often than not, the character creation date is the same as whatever the current day happens to be (I know this isn't a definitive sign of a newbie. I usually check other things like badges to be more certain).

So I come to you asking for any strategies you've found for communicating these kinds of nuances to our newer heroes and villains. Trying to maintain our welcoming reputation without pulling my hair out.

Edited March 14 by Timeshadow

[Snarky]

Here is my best advice

[Glacier Peak]

I set my expectations low enough that anyone can step over. As a side effect, anyone who plays with any semblance of team strategy or individual skill is a happy surprise. Anything to the contrary is what I expect. 

[Sunsette]

basic rule for teaching anyone anything: say whatever you want them to know early, and say it often, then keep your expectations low

 

people might be distracted, they might be forgetful, and some things just don't make sense without context

 

as an aside, I don't understand why people insist on rescuing all four heroes and *then* clearing -- it's a lot more prone to errors in execution and not really any faster than clearing and then doing all four heroes.

Edited March 14 by Sunsette

[Snarky]

2 minutes ago, Sunsette said:

basic rule for teaching anyone anything: say whatever you want them to know early, and say it often, then keep your expectations low

 

people might be distracted, they might be forgetful, and some things just don't make sense without context

 

as an aside, I don't understand why people insist on rescuing all four heroes and *then* clearing -- it's a lot more prone to errors in execution and not really any faster than clearing and then doing all four heroes.

I have been trying to get teams to not get the last hero.  But now that you said it this way…

 

I will be telling future teams, BEFORE I set mission, that we are not saving heroes. We are cleaning door.  Some will not listen, ever.  But if i can get a chunk of the team to help (and a few P2W stun grenades..) we should be able to solve most of the issue

[Sunsette]

Just now, Snarky said:

I have been trying to get teams to not get the last hero.  But now that you said it this way…

 

I will be telling future teams, BEFORE I set mission, that we are not saving heroes. We are cleaning door.  Some will not listen, ever.  But if i can get a chunk of the team to help (and a few P2W stun grenades..) we should be able to solve most of the issue

 

Yeah. We usually get splits when I do it that way, but a split can usually survive on a full team IMX. So we get like five people clearing and three saving heroes and it roughly works out.

[biostem]

You're not going to get other players to do what you want by ordering them around, and if you type too much, they'll probably ignore it.  You need clear & concise instructions that are presented in a friendly and helpful way, not barking orders.  Try to appeal to their sense of teamwork and comradery.  Maybe play up their strengths and/or suggest ways that they could use their powers more effectively.  If that still doesn't work, take what you've learned and be a bit more selective with whom you invite to the team in the future;  I'm sure there are some red flags you'll pick up on as you play...

[Ghost]

Ehh, it happens.

I just roll with it because sometimes (depending on the team) it’s the only real excitement in TF.

[mechahamham]

Explain what you want or need out of your team BEFORE THE MISSION STARTS. Don't call it in and get that mission before a quick, 'Let's fight to each of the first 3 heroes and then clear around the door. We'll rescue the fourth hero and trigger the ambush after that.' If you want to communicate in a hurry and aren't a quick typist, be sure to put that on a macro button or in a popmenu.

 

Don't use jargon. For example, 'pull' has entirely different meanings depending on who you ask. Be specific. "Blaster, please use a ranged attack to try to break one shadow clone off the group." If a melee-type says, "I'm going to pull," be ready for them to Leeroy into the group like they would have anyway.

[MonteCarla]

Well said, mechahamham!
Talk to them before the mission, and avoid acronyms and abbreviations.

Even asking at the start of a TF: "Is this anyone's first time" or "Want any tips on how to get through this?"

[Ukase]

I can't say I have this approach all the time. But, as of late, I've tried to emulate folks who have impressed me in the past with the way they have led. Mind you, the key word is "tried". 

I led a dfb yesterday. Likely, just next to Posi 1 and ITF for the more frequently run team content. 

I didn't advertise it as a badge run. Mainly because on this character, it didn't matter to me. But, I did ask the team if they wanted badges. Three were enthusiastically wanting them. So, I suggested they use single target damage, etc. 

Not before Meinst has 1/4 of his hp bar gone, this one controller was dispatching cadaver after cadaver like they had a 6 slotted fire ball. 
One of the badge-wanters was like "fail". 
And I said, "oh well. No big deal". 

Granted, missing a badge doesn't take up any extra time like triggering an ambush when the team isn't ready for it. So, definitely the annoyance felt is justified. But - let's ask ourselves - why are we here? 

I mean - at that point - why are you doing a posi 1? It's not for the merits. The first SSA, solo, by a weaker AT, will net you almost 2x as many merits in less than half the time. 
It can't be TFC requirements for most - I mean, don't we all know visiting Null the Gull, and then going to Lord Schweinzer in Port Oakes takes at most 20 minutes? And it's not like the veteran players haven't had time to set up a 2nd account for something like this, or alternatively, don't have in-game friends who do. 

I guess what I'm saying, if we're there for XP, while annoying, we still get what we came for, right? Albeit in a sloppy manner. 

And Biostem makes a good point above - instructions need to come across as suggestions, and if you can punctuate and choose words in such a fashion as to make them silly or amusing, it might go a little further and actually be heeded. After all, some of these players are not adults and may need to be handled with kid gloves. 

[Riverdusk]

14 minutes ago, Ukase said:

I mean - at that point - why are you doing a posi 1? It's not for the merits. The first SSA, solo, by a weaker AT, will net you almost 2x as many merits in less than half the time. 
 

 

Honestly I can solo Posi 1 with pretty much any character faster than most teams I join do it.  There's no AV and the worst you face is a one clone of yourself and that is usually handled by eating a few purple inspirations.  Side note: We're in trouble if they ever decide to give inspirations to those clones to use. 

 

So, I'm just there for the fun of doing it in a team, and I'm with @Ghost, I just roll with whatever.  Usually if a team is bad I just consider it an extra challenge.  If I'm on a support character it actually tends to make me feel more useful.

 

Edit:  Want to be a real hero of that TF, roll with a plant dom.  Can confuse a lot of the door waves.  Time domination right and you can confuse most if not all of the clones before the fight even starts and laugh as they fight each other as you wipe them all out without getting touched.

 

Edited March 14 by Riverdusk

[Lines]

Might be worth noting in that specific case that the trigger zone for the door ambush in posi 1 includes the stairs in front of city hall, not just the immediate area in front of the door.

 

Given how easy it is to trigger, I'd suggest trying to get the team ready for a big fight as part of freeing the final hero.

[JasperStone]

12 hours ago, Timeshadow said:

For example, there's that last mission on Posi1 with the CoT ambush at city hall. Multiple times now, I or a teammate have said, "Stay away from the door until we clear the stairs." Almost without fail these days, somebody hops on over to it and triggers the ambush anyway. Sometimes we wipe, sometimes we don't, but I've gotten in the habit of looking to see who does it. More often than not, the character creation date is the same as whatever the current day happens to be (I know this isn't a definitive sign of a newbie. I usually check other things like badges to be more certain).

I experienced this recently on a Posi 1

"Stay away from the steps; clear around it."

Got it!

I am up flying high and see..... the tank, clearly forgot about the drift component of super speed, hop skip onto to the front steps

 

Leader immediately screams Noooooooooooooooo!!!!!!

Tank owned his mistake.

Yes, we had a few team wipes and friggin runners that were super hard to find.

 

But onward.

 

We got owned by the clones. I mean .... owned.

For multiple wipes, the challenge was the MM and everything is coated in Ice Shields.

Finally, we figured out a good tactic and moved on.

But damn, that was hard.

 

Through it all?

No raging

No yelling

No rage quits.

We rallied 

We just figured out what to do next...

 

My belief is a lot of new players played a lot of first-person shooters and are used to, at times, having their butts handed to them.

 

Do I want every Posi 1 to be that way....hell know.

But people who don't give up...yes

 

 

 

[Hardboiled Hero]

Yeah.. "Stay away from the door" doesn't mean the same thing as "Stay off the stairs".  I honestly don't remember the ambush triggering from the stairs when I played before, so I'd happily wait there trying to stay away from the door.. and avoid pulling the nearby groups. Then when someone says "Oh. Some idiot triggered the ambush again", it never occurred to me that I was the idiot, because no one ever mentioned stairs, only doors.  Sometimes people would be like "Go fight by the statue out-front first.", but again, there's a group under the statue, so if I'm gonna wait somewhere near the statue for the rest of the team, where do you think I'm going to wait?  I honestly don't think most of the people that lead posi 1 even know that the stairs trigger an ambush, they're just so used to people saying "don't touch the door", so that's what they say.

 

  I see other people saying "set your expectations low", but I really think most of it comes down to understanding the difference between a reasonable person, and a knowledgeable person.  If you never tell people "The stairs in-front of city hall set off an ambush", then you can't expect people to know that.  If you're just looking at the map and where groups are without that knowledge, it seems reasonable to stand on the stairs.

 

  Also, while there are several different styles of leadership (and an effective leader should practice them all), a leader has to be adaptable.  We all know that there is likely to be someone who sets that ambush off at the wrong time, so a good leader will be prepared for that and ready to shift their plan to deal with it.  That said, I also think that many players get bored of following orders and having everything go as planned.  Personally, I don;t cause chaos, but I do feel pretty good after finishing a chaotic battle, so long as it doesn't turn into running back from the hospital 6 or 7 times.

[Sunsette]

15 minutes ago, Hardboiled Hero said:

I see other people saying "set your expectations low", but I really think most of it comes down to understanding the difference between a reasonable person, and a knowledgeable person.  If you never tell people "The stairs in-front of city hall set off an ambush", then you can't expect people to know that.  If you're just looking at the map and where groups are without that knowledge, it seems reasonable to stand on the stairs.

 

This is a good point, yes. When I say to 'set expectations low', it is not meant to denigrate the intelligence and reasonability of the average player. Flexibility and understanding are really key to management.

[Player2]

How to talk to new players.

 

Step 1:  Be as condescending as possible.  You know more and should start off by giving an air of authority.

 

Step 2:  Repeat everything, sometimes three or four times.  Also repeatedly ask for confirmation of understanding.

 

Step 3:  Let them know that they have to eat their meat.  How can they have any pudding if they don't eat their meat?

[cranebump]

Talking to new people? For God's sake, don't be yourself! That can only end in disaster!

 

Oh, wait -- we're not giving advice our mothers gave us? Errrrummm...hookay...

[momentarygrace]

Here's something no one has mentioned. If they are a newbie, and sometimes even if not, are they keeping an eye on the chat window for instructions at all? Do they even have the chat window open? My mate has been playing since live, like me, but she solos most of the time and more than half the time her chat window isn't even on the screen. I'm lucky I'm usually in the same room with her when we do team together. She's not a newb, she's not stupid, she means no harm, but yeah, she never developed the habit of watching chat when teaming. I am anal about it, and even I have missed instructions or accidentally gone against them, but yeah.

 

If it matters, maybe do a quick roll call before entering the mission and have everyone respond?

[ZacKing]

On 3/13/2024 at 8:49 PM, Timeshadow said:

Sometimes we wipe, sometimes we don't, but I've gotten in the habit of looking to see who does it. More often than not, the character creation date is the same as whatever the current day happens to be (I know this isn't a definitive sign of a newbie. I usually check other things like badges to be more certain).

 

Created data and badge count is no indication whatsoever that someone is a new player.  For all anyone knows, they're an experienced vet who just rolled a new alt.  As for the question at hand, best you can do is communicate clearly what you're planning.  People are either going to listen or they won't.  You don't have much control over that other than to form teams with people you already know who share a similar play style as you. 

[Sanguinesun]

On 3/14/2024 at 9:49 AM, Timeshadow said:

Recently, I've found myself a little frustrated with some of our newer players. I understand we're all here to have fun and this community is exceedingly friendly by MMORPG standards, but I've run into several (seemingly) new players who just won't listen.

For example, there's that last mission on Posi1 with the CoT ambush at city hall. Multiple times now, I or a teammate have said, "Stay away from the door until we clear the stairs." Almost without fail these days, somebody hops on over to it and triggers the ambush anyway. Sometimes we wipe, sometimes we don't, but I've gotten in the habit of looking to see who does it. More often than not, the character creation date is the same as whatever the current day happens to be (I know this isn't a definitive sign of a newbie. I usually check other things like badges to be more certain).

So I come to you asking for any strategies you've found for communicating these kinds of nuances to our newer heroes and villains. Trying to maintain our welcoming reputation without pulling my hair out.

 

The Pos1 issue has been discussed for years and its not exclusive to new players.  There are just some who want to watch the world burn.  There are signs that a team will have someone do that well before it happens if you pay attention to how people handle the missions before it, not to mention how the lead handles the mission difficulties in relation to the team dynamics etc etc.

 

Personally, I think as well its the worst of the task forces, not because the mechanics of it exist but because its the -first- and thus the first impression truly new players can have of the task forces and can put off some when things fall apart.

 

 

That out of the way, in general otherwise, you can help try to teach folks but you cant make them learn, I've imparted information to many a new player over the years for their first 5-10 levels and I can usually within the first few moment know whether they are receptive to what's being imparted or simply wish to experientially learn things their way.  

 

So really it boils down to you taking a Willy Wonka (Gene Wilder) attitude from the 1971 film saying "Stop. Dont. Come back" as you roll your eyes, knowing what the inevitable result will be. 😛

[Random Axis]

Directions need to be unambiguous. When they aren't you can practically guarantee that someone will get it wrong. Someone doing Posi 1 for the first time that gets told "Stay off the stairs" and later "Let's clear the stairs" can pretty naturally think that second one meant they can go anywhere. Then they accidentally trigger the ambush and get yelled at even though they didn't really do anything they weren't told.

[Haijinx]

 

 

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[nihilii]

Start by observing the new player from a distance to get a sense of its behaviors and patterns. When you do approach, move slowly and calmly so as not to startle it. Bring some of its favorite food like berries, nuts, or meat scraps to get its attention and show you come in peace.

Keep your hands visible at all times and avoid direct eye contact, as many new players see this as a threat or challenge. Speak in a soft, soothing voice to help the new player become accustomed to your presence. Let the new player approach you first rather than crowding its space.

Be patient and give the new player time to get comfortable with you being around. Sit or crouch down to make yourself appear less intimidating. You may need to repeat visiting the same location consistently over weeks or months before real trust can develop.

Once the new player seems at ease, you can slowly extend a hand and allow it to sniff you. Don't make any sudden movements. With time and using positive reinforcement like food rewards, you may be able to cautiously pet or handfeed the new player.

Always avoid cornering the new player or doing anything that could make it feel threatened or provoked. Be prepared to safely retreat if it acts aggressively. While building a bond is possible in some cases, remember a new player is unpredictable and your safety comes first.