Dual boxing

[Xaddy]

So...I've read the rules and such, and I completely understand that we're even allowed to triple box, just so long as the shard population doesn't exceed 1500. 
So, here's my dilemma: while I understand that the person behind the avatars will have varying levels of skill and ability to control both or all three characters, is this acceptable for team play - like running a faathim and the team lead has 2 other accounts as part of the team? 

That just seems...well, wrong, I guess. Granted, nobody is putting a gun to my head to join. It just seems like this player gets 3x the rewards, while 2 of the characters are likely going to auto-spam a certain power. And I imagine navigation in a place like the shard is probably not too terrible, but likely to slow things down at some point. 

Is this considered okay? Like - I know there are rules, but there's also "Norms", like don't quit task forces if you can help it. 

This is the first time I've seen this and I just didn't feel right remaining on this team. Am I just being too judgmental/critical here? 

[Glacier Peak]

You can have 15 accounts running at once assuming all servers are under the specified population limit and your computer can run that many. It's mostly memory intensive at that point. 

 

As to whether it's good or bad? I'm happy it's possible and the devs made an effort to accommodate such things. 

 

Edit: I'll add that I think it's poor form to do so in a team environment if it's not explicitly made clear ahead of time and teammates are okay with it. 

Edited April 22 by Glacier Peak

[ZemX]

17 minutes ago, Glacier Peak said:

Edit: I'll add that I think it's poor form to do so in a team environment if it's not explicitly made clear ahead of time and teammates are okay with it. 

 

This.  People can do whatever they want and that includes them triple-boxing and me quitting their team when I find out they are triple-boxing.  I don't care how good they are juggling three windows.  That's not three teammates. 

 

That said.  I'd say it's pretty rare I've run into that on random PuGs.  Most people multi-boxing are doing it in farms, I'd guess.  And there it makes all kinds of sense.

[Greycat]

Other than farms, I don't think I've seen anyone "in mission" multiboxing all that frequently. *Maybe* an "I'm unlocking the patron powers on this alt account."  And it's expressly verboten for things like MSRs and Hami raids.

 

I'll generally see it for RP. (Or something like a friend who's building/tweaking a base on a base-builder character while RPing on another.)

 

That said, yeah, if it's on a team, whoever's doing it should be up front about it. And if you have an issue with it (or, really, anything else,) there's nothing wrong with leaving the team, even if it's on a TF.

[macskull]

Meh if I’m leading the team and I can’t fill for a piece of content I might log on an alt, or I might just run with 7. Multiboxing ain’t against the ToS (in this scenario) and it ain’t hurting anybody.

[ZacKing]

So long as they made it clear in advance this is what they're doing, I don't see a problem with it.  Like you said, no one is holding a gun to your head to join the team.

[SeraphimKensai]

I triple box quite a bit myself. Usually 2 in a farm and 1 playing content. Otherwise if im soloing a TF, I'll have my three accounts each have a character in for triple the reward at the end.

 

I have triple boxed SBBs with three masterminds, but I specifically inform whoever else is on the team what I'm doing. More often than not it's a friend tagging along.

 

I am more likely to triple box MMs while soloing missions than any other AT. That said if I'm doing a patron unlock or maria Jenkins arc I often will triple box it, but have no one else with me.

 

Otherwise in PvP zones I'll often have a hero and a villain logged in and parked so I can quickly even the odds as I hate being on a side that is outnumbering the other team. I like to be on the underdog team or it he evenly matched.

 

But yeah 99% of the time when server load allows my other accounts are farming some influence and recipes while I play one character.

[cranebump]

I believe I've seen at least 2 instances where a person was running 4-5 additional toons. They would stand in AE, auras toggled, occasionally slamming the ground with their only qued attack. All. Of. Them. The room just constantly shook.

 

Thankfully, they have that li'l ol' quiet room in the back there.:-)

[Ukase]

I've seen a farmer run 4 accounts at the same time -and since I knew them, I politely suggested they not - because of the rule against it. They thanked me, saying they didn't really understand the rule. And logged one off. The next day, they were back to 4. They no longer play. Could have been banned, could have quit, not real sure. 

I've seen one guy who I know went on to Thunderspy, who had 7 accounts running. I only discovered this because he let me tag along for a patron arc finale. It was hard to fathom that he would recruit for this one opening, but he did. 

I remember back on live, some chap was dual boxing and was recruiting for Manticore, and he never shared that he was dual boxing, just tried to sneak that by the team. 

"Alt account had to go afk for a second, he'll be back". 

Alt account came back just in time to exit after the first mission. We figured it out after the 2nd mission and all of us quit, leaving him with his two accounts. 

I have no issue with folks running 3 accounts if the population level is low enough to make it permissible. But, I would feel kind of sketchy trying to do this for anything other than just my own content. I'd only bring someone else if I was in someway doing them a favor - like the Dark Astoria arc collaborative completion gimmick. 
We all zip through the first missions, collaboratively completing all but the last. 

Then we each do the finale for each alt. In that context, those that only have the one alt still get 2 more reward tables than they otherwise would. And they would know beforehand. I mean, it would be obvious with Ukase, Ukase 2 and Ukase? all running around. Some folks might wonder about Ukase?, but I doubt it. 

But to just do something like tip missions or radios? I can barely play one character at a competent level, let alone 3. 

[UltraAlt]

13 hours ago, Xaddy said:

is this acceptable for team play

 

If you announce it and let other players know so they can decide if it is acceptable or not, then yeah.

If you are trying to do it without the others knowing, I wouldn't consider deceiving other players to be acceptable.

[Clave Dark 5]

I've seen one guy five-boxing (I think) during the last ToT at the Murder Hotel: one MM down in the center of the parking lot, pets set on Aggressive, the MM itself spamming a heal to "look active" to the server; four other toons doing nothing but standing just inside the door up in the AE hologram room (the AE building is right next door to the hotel, see), doing jack-all.

 

Devs frown on that, but at the same time best I can tell they also won't ban for it.  They did unlog the guy (for server speeds) a few times but as it was put to me "he just keeps coming back." 

[Eightbit]

I think I ran a Posi2 with some dual boxers.  The 2 Corruptors on the team weren't buffing at all only occasionally firing off at mobs.  As the solo brute I faceplanted pretty often simply because there wasn't any support.  We had a kin and I saw 1 transfusion go off the whole TF.  We made it through but it wasn't a fun experience for me.  

I dual box but only when solo and not very often.

[twozerofoxtrot]

On 4/22/2024 at 9:09 PM, Xaddy said:

I know there are rules, but there's also "Norms", like don't quit task forces if you can help it. 

This is the first time I've seen this and I just didn't feel right remaining on this team. Am I just being too judgmental/critical here?

Nah.

This is a game.

If you're not having fun, leave and go do something else. Your time is valuable, and you don't owe a presence to anyone in a PUG.

[Techwright]

I'll add my voice to the others stating that it is imperative that the dual boxer inform the team in advance that they're dual boxing.  If I discover it in the middle of an operation, I'll apologize to the other teammates, but I will bow out, considering not being informed to be the height of rudeness.  I don't care if the second character is set to auto-fire healing or some beneficial effect.  Withholding that information is a deal breaker.  If the dual boxer is up front with us, I'll evaluate the rest of the team, and if I think they're strong enough, I might just stay with them.  I don't believe I'd work with a team with a triple boxer, however.

 

I think this is rare, though. I can only recall one time where I realized there was a dual boxer involved, and the person doing it had not admitted to anything.  The second character always hung far back and rarely moved.  I don't recall more of the event, though.  As I said, in my experience it is rare to encounter.

[Maelwys]

I double-boxed on Live quite a bit.
Typically it'd be me actively playing one toon whilst the second was a dedicated Buffer (or Tank) either on autofollow or standing still.
It made a lot of things easier, from farming to AV/GM hunting to just plain levelling up - a few favourite combos included "Fire Blaster + INV/SS Tanker with Footstomp on Autofire" for farming and "almost anything plus Earth/Thermal Controller" for GM fights.
And yes, I'd occasionally bring multiple toons into a TF. But only if I knew it inside out, we weren't already capped on teammates and doing so actually made things faster/safer.

If I joined a PUG TF where someone was multiboxing then I'd be perfectly fine with that as long as they weren't actively trying to hide what was going on.
Bonus points if they actually played at least one of their characters halfway decently.
 

Edited April 24 by Maelwys

[Techwright]

5 minutes ago, Maelwys said:

I double-boxed on Live quite a bit.

 

I did as well, though I can't recall ever joining a PUG that way.  My best friend and I would each dual-box for a team of four characters It was just us getting our lesser characters to 22, which pushed them past the old endurance drain teen levels, and allowed some characters like controllers to finally start coming into their own. 

[Zect]

On 4/22/2024 at 8:09 PM, Xaddy said:

Am I just being too judgmental/critical here? 

 

My take is there's always a very simple answer to this question, which is: the way you treat others is the way you'll be treated, and the measure you deal to others is the measure you'll be dealt. If you dual box on people's TF's without notice, then you should be fine with people dualboxing on yours without notice. And if you quit TF's, then then you should also be okay when other people quit yours. And as long as that's the case, you can do whatever you like, subject of course to the rules.

 

As for tripleboxing specifically, I have nothing in principle against the concept, but it feels like a hassle to me. Why do I have to log in 3 toons just to get max loot? It irritates me because I do use character items a lot (where items from Super Packs go to, not the normal email folder) and the 3 accounts don't share the same email inventory. Just ban tripleboxing and give 300% reward rates, and this limited form of legalized botting will become unnecessary.

[Greldek]

I often two box patron arcs because it's so much faster to have a geared out character do the killing vs whatever ransom alt just hit 35.

 

Then at last mission I invite randoms in to get their free flag. And even then, though only a couple times so far, I've had people complain to me about two boxing, and I should save that spot for a real person.

 

 

The only other times I two box are when we need something extra in a GM , usually dps, but sometimes tank or support. Or I'm farming for myself in ae.

Edited April 25 by Greldek

[Jack Power]

I must have missed something somewhere... I thought it was ok to have three accounts but not more. 

 

//Jack

[Jacktar]

Bit of an off topic comment and because of my now very old brain, am I remembering correctly that we did have a time when you had to have the required number of team members to even start a TF/SF.

I mention it because I very often used to post in chat that I was availale as a “Starter” only team member to get them underway and would then drop as soon as we did start. Never see that these days.

I wonder if folks also did use the multi-box system as a work around for that or if the numbers requirement was changed before the extra accounts stuff was ingame.

Just curious really, thanks

[kito]

You can't play 8 alts at once?   

 

 

Well I guess the gameplay would be better but what would you talk about 😉

 

 

41 minutes ago, Jacktar said:

Bit of an off topic comment and because of my now very old brain, am I remembering correctly that we did have a time when you had to have the required number of team members to even start a TF/SF.

I mention it because I very often used to post in chat that I was availale as a “Starter” only team member to get them underway and would then drop as soon as we did start. Never see that these days.

I wonder if folks also did use the multi-box system as a work around for that or if the numbers requirement was changed before the extra accounts stuff was ingame.

Just curious really, thanks

 

 

You can't start a tf with any number of players even 1 if you want to solo it

[lemming]

3 hours ago, Jack Power said:

I must have missed something somewhere... I thought it was ok to have three accounts but not more. 

 

//Jack

You can't play more than three accounts per server (assuming the load isn't to high), so in theory you could run 15 at once spread over five servers.  And for that matter, you could run even more on the beta servers.   I have been running one account on beta, and another on live, usually when doing comparisons.

[lemming]

I often dual box when I'm doing stuff like getting the invader badge and a few others for new characters.  Sometimes will dual with a friend or two where having a semi-active char with added value is worthwhile.  (Usually a tank to auto-taunt, or someone who can toss some buffs on)

 

For PUGs, only if asked for if a filler is needed, but that's rare.

 

One method I saw that's interesting is dual boxing for some TFs where you do a league where the alt char is not on the team doing the TF, but works as a taxibot.  Best use seems to be Dr Q.

[tidge]

I have no issues with a dual-box player in mission, behind closed doors, beyond whatever grumpiness might involve any other PUG mate.

 

I do believe that open-world multi-boxing, such as for hunting Giant Monsters or other zone events, ought to be verbotten. Rationale follows:

1. The multi-box player is reaping greater rewards than a solo player in the open world.
2. The multi-box player is potentially denying solo players an opportunity to reap rewards. For example: the 60-second-long zone Giant Monster defeats.

It has been my experience that multi-box Giant Monster hunters also happen to be really bad about "cleaning up" after a Giant Monster defeat... maybe because they are worried about their multi-box more than they are worried about the zone they are in? I realize it takes a little bit of effort (i.e. cross Kings Row) to clean up after a Paladin, but there is next-to-no effort required to know that the Croatoan Grim Vale event has been reset. Leagues can also be bad about Croatoa, but there are enough multi-boxers that I regularly see them leaving the Vale not reset.

 

The GM rewards are an order of magnitude smaller than something like a Hamidon or Mothership raid, but I'd rather see open-world multi-boxing of GM and zone event fights be restricted than a daily clock be implemented on all GM rewards. I feel that the daily GM reward clocks may have been a contributing factor to why I've seen so many more dual-box GM hunters (Monstrous Aethers contribute as well, I am sure).

[nihilii]

I multibox, but I would never do so on a team that isn't friends only. It just seems bad mannered.

I don't care what other multiboxers do but I think anyone has the right to not want to team with such a setup.