Kinetic Melee: Talk to me

[One IV All]

Who has played this on a Tanker? I know it can have  a bad rep, but has anyone found ways for it to shine?

 

It’s T1-T3 attacks seem snappy. Seems to have decent crowd control with Burst and Repulsing Torrent (which is actually ranged and kind of act as taunt).

 

The -Dmg it does can help lower the damage done to your team passively, even though it’s minor.

 

Are there any specific primaries on a Tanker you feel works really well with Kinetic Melee? My reason for looking at a Tanker is I could probably proc out more of KM’s attacks on them, in order to help with the middling damage.

[Spaghetti Betty]

I am unfortunately an avid Kinetic Melee hater. It serves pretty well on Stalkers, but every other AT has to work insanely hard to get the same output as nearly any other Melee available.

 

You will pretty much be doing the first 3 attacks over and over again, save for if you feel like adding Gloom and an epic hold for utility shenanigans. Focused Burst is fun. but is not optimal. Definitely do take it if you like it! I know I did.

 

If you're intent on this, my ideal pairings would be Bio, Rad, or Elec. Pretty much anything that will allow you to have a nice amount of mitigation, while also adding something to your damage.

 

Again, just if you're looking for something efficient. You should focus on what's fun for you at the end of the day.

 

This was my best shot at making a fun /KM Tanker. Yes, I do play it.

Tanker (Bio Armor - Kinetic Melee).mbd

Edited April 28 by Spaghetti Betty

[Sovera]

I've tried it on all ATs. Definitely go Stalker as you will be spamming your first three attacks and the ST will never feel great outside of AS. Then pair it with perhaps Stone for all the goodies including recharge. The BU of Stalkers' Kinetic Melee is unlike the BU the other ATs get from KM as it is a regular 90 second, 1.3 activation power that grants 80% damage and 20% ToHit for 10 seconds.

 

All the other ATs get the 2.1 activation, 120 seconds recharge that gives 25% damage and 7.5% ToHit that then stacks for 5 times as you hit for the next 20 seconds.

 

Between the normal BU, Assassin's Strike, and the proc to reset BU, it is, IMO, the best version of KM.

 

 

It works for all other ATs though, it's just slow. Can't really have good damage when spamming T1 and T2, then the slow animation of Power Siphon, then the ramp up, then the mediocre AoE (though it can slot in an FF).

[Erratic1]

Kinetic Melee is something you should avoid unless you accept up front it will never give you the functionality of some other offensive set.

 

I say that as someone who, for some unknown reason, is levelling a Willpower/KM Tanker. What can I say? I like challenges.

Edited April 28 by Erratic1

[One IV All]

Thanks all. I guess I was just hoping there was something that could help make KM more optimal on a Tanker 😂😂😂 I guess it needs the Fiery/Energy/Battle Axe adjustments.

[Infinitum]

1 hour ago, One IV All said:

Thanks all. I guess I was just hoping there was something that could help make KM more optimal on a Tanker 😂😂😂 I guess it needs the Fiery/Energy/Battle Axe adjustments.

 

Yep, there's no way to make it optimal, lol   but it still can be fun - but you have to tune the meta out of your head to go there with KM.

 

Definitely needs a boost.

[Warboss]

So, my opinion is a bit different than everyone's else. There does need to be some Dev love, but the set isn't really designed for "Max Damage", the set is set up for soft control with KB (a mistake for Melee toons). The solution is to slot with KB>KD IOs. Is that optimal, no, is a practical... probably not, but it does make the set useful for mitigation' and keeping the mobs on their backsides. You won't be a Fiery Melee blast furnace, but you will have some ranged control that other sets don't provide. I find KM useful when running with new players, or not vary advanced players. You can add procs if you want to up damage potential, but you'll likely be disappointed. If you want damage choose something else, if you want a set that allows a different kind of control, give it a shot.

 

 

[Spaghetti Betty]

48 minutes ago, Warboss said:

So, my opinion is a bit different than everyone's else. There does need to be some Dev love, but the set isn't really designed for "Max Damage", the set is set up for soft control with KB (a mistake for Melee toons). The solution is to slot with KB>KD IOs. Is that optimal, no, is a practical... probably not, but it does make the set useful for mitigation' and keeping the mobs on their backsides. You won't be a Fiery Melee blast furnace, but you will have some ranged control that other sets don't provide. I find KM useful when running with new players, or not vary advanced players. You can add procs if you want to up damage potential, but you'll likely be disappointed. If you want damage choose something else, if you want a set that allows a different kind of control, give it a shot.

 

 

Good point!

Stone, Axe, SS, Ice, MA, Staff, and even Claws with slotting can do this better with much higher damage output on all fronts. ❤️ 

[Yomo Kimyata]

Another factor behind the original design of Kinetic Melee (in my opinion, I wasn't there) was that it adds an extra layer of protection in the form of -damage debuff on enemies.  This has the approximate effect of additional damage resistance, which would enhance survivability.

 

Unfortunately in this iteration, survivability is pretty much a given, especially for tankers with their ATOs.  And so, players don't notice they are surviving more, since they have no problem surviving, and players then focus on why isn't my damage higher.

 

I don't like Kinetic Melee enough to play it on a tanker or a brute, but I'll get some use out of it on stalkers or scrappers.  Scrappers get a recharge of Power Siphon when Concentrated Strike crits (20% chance) but unfortunately that chance is not enhanced by either of the scrapper ATO procs.

 

[BrandX]

Is Kinetic Melee the lowest in terms of ST DPS?  Generally, yes.  Though only dead last on Brutes it seems, with second to last for Tankers.

However, the difference between Tanker's top ST DPS and Kinetic Melee is roughly 90 seconds, going by @Ston's DPS charts.  So, imo, the difference just gets blown out of proportion.

 

I would personally like to see some real work done on Focused Burst to help it's ST DPS.  This attack is so nice looking, and it's such a shame that it's better to take an Epic Blast.  This attack needs to be reworked into snipe/gloom level imo, so people will want to take it instead.

 

Sadly for Tanker's Concentrated Strike doesn't reset Power Siphon, so right now, I'm not so sure it's worth taking on Tankers.  I only use the attack once on my Scrapper, as a chance to reset Power Siphon.  If it doesn't do it, I don't use it again until the next Power Siphon window.  Sadly, it's chance to trigger PS reset seems to be low.

If you want the best out of Kinetic Melee, go Bio Armor for sure.  That armor set is going to make EVERYTHING Melee Set nice, in terms of damage 🙂

[Erratic1]

1 hour ago, Yomo Kimyata said:

Another factor behind the original design of Kinetic Melee (in my opinion, I wasn't there) was that it adds an extra layer of protection in the form of -damage debuff on enemies.  This has the approximate effect of additional damage resistance, which would enhance survivability.

 

 

It is a pretty minimal enhancement when dealing with groups as the only means of area application is Burst, though it does debuff 14% for 7 seconds. If the debuff stacks against single targets though, it would be a plus against bosses/AVs.

 

40 minutes ago, BrandX said:

Sadly for Tanker's Concentrated Strike doesn't reset Power Siphon, so right now, I'm not so sure it's worth taking on Tankers.  I only use the attack once on my Scrapper, as a chance to reset Power Siphon.  If it doesn't do it, I don't use it again until the next Power Siphon window.  Sadly, it's chance to trigger PS reset seems to be low.

 

It does boost your damage over five hits and the power lasts for 20 seconds. You should have time to max it and then make attacks at full value. Its as worth it as Build Up. The downside is it only grants 7.5% To-Hit.

[BrandX]

1 hour ago, Erratic1 said:

 

It is a pretty minimal enhancement when dealing with groups as the only means of area application is Burst, though it does debuff 14% for 7 seconds. If the debuff stacks against single targets though, it would be a plus against bosses/AVs.

 

 

It does boost your damage over five hits and the power lasts for 20 seconds. You should have time to max it and then make attacks at full value. Its as worth it as Build Up. The downside is it only grants 7.5% To-Hit.

 

Power Siphon is worth it, what I was saying was Concentrated Strike not being able to reset Power Siphon (like it can for Scrappers) doesn't seem to make CS worth taking.

[Erratic1]

7 minutes ago, BrandX said:

 

Power Siphon is worth it, what I was saying was Concentrated Strike not being able to reset Power Siphon (like it can for Scrappers) doesn't seem to make CS worth taking.

 

Ahh. Misread. It is one of your highest damage/animation time abilities according to Mid's. It also gives you 8s on damage debuff, which beats out everything but Burst. And you might disorient your target.

 

 

Edited April 30 by Erratic1

[BrandX]

3 hours ago, Erratic1 said:

 

Ahh. Misread. It is one of your highest damage/animation time abilities according to Mid's. It also gives you 8s on damage debuff, which beats out everything but Burst. And you might disorient your target.

 

 

 

It's DPS comes out lower on my build.  And 2 DMG IOs at +5 with 3 procs each, put it last in DPS too. 😞

[Snarky]

I played it as Invul/KM Tank.  No Tank is bad.  The whole concept was Tank Mage, I made a magic themed/costumed and the big movements look like spell casting.  Then a lot of the stuff is ranged.  Short range but still.  Again, no Tank is bad.  Yawn…uh, what was I saying?   

[nihilii]

I have not found a way to make KM work on Tankers. My Elec/KM Tanker is a tragedy of a character. Weak damage, weak survivability. KM is an old flame and I really wanted this to happen. The +RES meshed with -DAM synergy exists on paper (I even went Void Judgement to stack some more), but falls flat in real gameplay. It's rare I find no redeeming feature to love about a powerset combo, especially a melee powerset combo, but this one really was eye-opening in that I could not squeeze any performance out of it.

[Warboss]

Yeah, in game to performance doesn't transfer. It's a better set for mitigation than damage. But, as @Spaghetti Betty pointed out other sets give you better damage and mitigation as well (Axe probably being the best of both). I'm not sure what KM really needs to get it going in a better direction. My first thought would be to reduce the recharge times and maybe pair down the animation and cast times, then re-evaluate the set. Seems like it was meant to feel fast, but in play it seems slow.

Edited May 1 by Warboss
clearly unable to post at times...

[SableShrike]

I can't believe I missed this, as I lurk the Tanker forum most of all.

 

My co-main (recent main is a Huntsman) is an SR/KM "light tank".  I say "light tank" because in no way did I build it to tank 4* Hard Modes.  Can it?  Maybe with the right buffs, as it's pretty damn solid even with me tweaking it towards offense.  Can drop one of the 35+ powers to fit in Taunt.

 

SR is what let me do a lot of this, as it has crazy Global Recharge potential with Quickness and IOs.  Which means proc potential.  I've carefully kept all Recharge enhancements off most attacks, and it winds up spinning procs very reliably.   With the slotting in Concentrated, the procs still fire with max probability.  Yes, Concentrated is still too damn slow to activate.  Yes, it needs animation shortening.

 

Power Siphon sucks LESS with the Chance for BuildUp proc in it: it lets you fire a buffed Burst right away.  But it still kinda sucks.

 

And just to clarify, the -Damage that KM attacks have is ONLY active for the 20 seconds of Siphon.  As far as unique secondary effects go, KM's are pretty terrible.  95% of the time you don't have the -Damage at all.

 

But still!  Flying Tanker.  She wound up kinda like Genos or Mega Man.  Flopping a spawn with maxed-Range Repulsing Torrent is quite fun.

 

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Edited August 11 by SableShrike

[kelika2]

On 4/28/2024 at 3:09 AM, One IV All said:

The -Dmg it does can help lower the damage done to your team passively, even though it’s minor.

Telling someone to not be a team player is not what I am talking about

However

minor effects that are not -resist or -tohit in 99.9% of situations are not needed

 

Most enemies in this game die FAST.  Steamrolled Minions and so on are not a big deal.  This is not a bad thing

Most low-mid level AVs within a reasonable level are NOT a threat.  this is a good thing.  being solo in a solo arc and getting blocked sucks.  being in a group and in a tf being blocked is horrifically morally demoralizing.  there is a reason most single player games autosaves all the time and gone are the days of save points or starting from the beginning of the game.

And high level AVs generally get Lore-petted to hell due to how industrialized the server is in its 5 years of existence

With those things said, no one will ever notice -dmg on your kinetic melee attacks

 

Kinetic Melee sucks donkey dick on everything but a stalker.  If you want an effective tanker, just survive the alpha all the time to be the shining beacon of light in every group.  If you want Kinetic Melee to be useful, go kin/bio or kin/fire stalker.

 

---

One thing that is never talked about is how enemies +1 or higher (and class, like archvillain/giant monster) resist debuff effects.  i am not sure what kinetic melee's -dmg is, but it is a fraction on a gm/av

Edited August 11 by kelika2
---

[SableShrike]

The Live team really should have seperated the -Damage from Siphon and made it always on.  You honestly never really notice it.

 

As is, Claws is nearly identical to KM on most ATs and yet is numerically superior in almost every way.  Ranged attack, ranged cone, yet more AoE, and a permanent damage buff in Follow Up.  Not to mention most Claws attacks are lightyears faster to animate.

[Sovera]

On the upside KM will shine once the dev team gets to it. Their updates to lagging sets have a good track record.

[Psyonico]

4 hours ago, SableShrike said:

The Live team really should have seperated the -Damage from Siphon and made it always on.  You honestly never really notice it.

 

it is always on.

[Without_Pause]

4 hours ago, SableShrike said:

As is, Claws is nearly identical to KM on most ATs and yet is numerically superior in almost every way.  Ranged attack, ranged cone, yet more AoE, and a permanent damage buff in Follow Up.  Not to mention most Claws attacks are lightyears faster to animate.

I've done the spreadsheet comparison, and it's rather embarrassing how KM got past test. Based on animation times, KM should be one of the hardest hitting sets.

[honoroit]

Casino magnante, and dresses-to-impress lastboss Ted Dubois makes kinetic melee look like your next power set, for every player.

 

Big industry gamble man power pushing the unprepared.

 

Kinetic melee should be like palm blast from elden ring pre-nerf.

 

But it's not.  You could literally double the damage and people wouldn't be upset?

 

 

[ZemX]

The problem I have with it is that I once heard it called "NASCAR Melee" and now I can never un-hear it.

 

Vrooooooomm...roommmm.... zoooooom.  *CRASH*