Controllers Need Not Apply?

[twozerofoxtrot]

Imagine thinking you would need to even pull anything on what is essentially "SL Farm, the Task Force."

[Scarlet Shocker]

I wouldn't want to play on such a discriminatory team.

[Nightmarer]

Tbh, the Aoe immob spam has always been a problem, especially on live, back when immob nullified KD, anyyone who lvld an ice controller knows what I mean. However, same thing would apply for Dark Miasmists and Tar Patch or Traps toons with Caltrops. 

 

If the one aranging the TF has a tank and wants to herd freely, then they might have to prepare for an unpleasant surprise even without trollers / dominators on team, I personally think that explaining things clearly before starting would be a better way, not perfect, but better because in some players cases, might be lack of AT knowledge (ah, the joys of unchecked AE PLing) and clear instructions might be helpful in the long term.

[Snarky]

15 hours ago, Timeshadow said:

Hey gang, 

 

So, I was leveling the other day when a message came across LFG. Someone was recruiting for an ITF and said they didn't want any Doms or Trollers because those ATs "mess up massive pulls."

 

In all my years playing CoH, I've never heard of someone not wanting CC on a team. IMO, it makes dealing with big pulls easier, not harder. But I wanted to get y'all's opinion. Do you think CC toons are an issue when going for big pulls? Do they make any significant difference either way? 

Stupid comes in many flavors.  
 

i tend to run very few Trollers.  But i went through a phase where i took a few Trollers from 1-50 in all red/blue TF/SF/Trials in level order.  Even my crap play did not do that.  I found myself watching the team closely and applying AoE in strategies that assisted quick and safe completion of objectives.  
 

then, back to blastin’…💥🎉🔥😆

[Crysis]

There’s a playstyle that is all about herding.  Its efficient, but if you don’t understand what is happening, you can find yourself on the wrong side of the herding point and get clobbered and/or destroy the momentum of the herd via a hold or whatever.  ITF’s, especially the 1st, 3rd and Final missions, are pretty much herd-fests.  As long as a Controller/Dom knows/understands this, it’s easy for them to participate fully by just waiting for spawns to gather up and then apply a hold/immobilize which is actually quite helpful to the team at that point as it prevents wandering.  Heck, with the right powers, Controllers/Dom’s -can herd stuff themselves.-  I have a SG mate who does this with just about any build you can imagine.  

 

The issue, however, is more that the ITF leader is a melee type who wants to be the center of attention.  Most of my /ignore list is made up of this kind of player.  They want an audience, not teammates.  Just don’t join them.

[High_Beam]

I tend to gimp my trollers and doms a little.  While I take my AoE immob I never take my AoE lock if it is a PBAoE which is pretty much most of em.  It really hasn't caused me any heartburn in play; solo or with with someone herding cats.  Now it certainly is their prerogative to not team with CTL/DOM, but I would consider myself lucky I was skipped in that case.  Plenty of teams willing to let me throw forklifts at evil.

[Mopery]

The usual answer to such problems is to just make your own team, with your own rules.

However, getting any random player to actually follow said rules is another matter entirely...

[madicen16]

It's kind of nice when people advertise for groups like this, makes it easier to know who to avoid. People getting all twisted about group comp for a normal run for content that is so easy it can be solo'd at 4/8 by the ATs they want to exclude....yeah they are not someone I want to waste my time grouping with.

[srmalloy]

10 hours ago, Tacheyon said:

Sometimes I discriminate against everyone BUT Masterminds.  It's not a big deal.

Well maybe to my GFX card.  

You would have cringed at the all-MM ITF that Kay organized on Guardian back on Live. Not only did we have 48+ henchmen thrown into the caves maps, but this was before MM henchmen lost their collision box, so they would block up the tunnels to boot. It was a pain making sure that the melee-set MMs were at the front as we moved so the ranged-set MMs didn't block them from getting to the Cimerorans.

[ZemX]

Generally, I don't just leap to assuming someone asking for specific ATs or excluding them doesn't know what they are doing but giving "messing up massive pulls" as a reason in THIS case is weird.  When does this ever happen on an ITF?   Seriously.  I'd notice.  I am usually playing a Tanker and PuG controllers/doms are often the bane of my existence on ordinary mission teams in the mid-levels but... ITF?   Not only do the Cims have their own mez protection but normal mode ITFs are generally always run at 50 and you have half or most the team as Incarnates who are just incinerating everything anyway whether its glued to the floor or not.   When is this a problem?

 

This aside, I see some people being pretty judgmental in this thread about PuG leaders and I'd just say remember... PuGs are chaos.  Not everyone is totally into forming teams entirely by random and then dealing with the consequences.  If they see their radio or mission team filling up with lowbies, they might ask for a 50 in lfg or even a 50 tank/brute or something if they think the team could be safer with something like that.    People seem to forget that just because you CAN succeed with any combo doesn't mean you will or even that it's likely, especially with a randomly formed team.  I wouldn't just assume that someone being picky in lfg is unaware how the game works.  

 

Unless they're looking for a "healer". 🤪

[Uun]

I've run many +4/x8, defeat most, all controller ITFs. Steamroll doesn't begin to describe how totally we crushed the opposition and how quickly we finished. They're even easier than all defender or all corruptor. I've also run several all MM ITFs. Other than straining my graphics card, they were also steamrolls.

[Psyonico]

I love doing all-MM ITFs, it's pure chaos and amazing.

 

As for not wanting controllers/doms? I find that a bit odd considering Romulus the track star.

[Sovera]

I don't like Controllers either. I do feel they just slow things down, even the good ones who only mass immobilize when the mobs are grouped up. That said I don't feel a need to refuse them either and can and have ended up with 2-4 CC types in teams I was forming.

 

To be honest the game has moved on past the need for CC, much like there was a time WoW dungeons were  c a r e f u l  pulls with one mob sheeped, another mob sapped, a third frozen trapped, and then  v e r y  carefully killing the rest with NO AOE WHATSOEVER to not break the CCs and always a sweaty eye on those mobs to reapply those CCs because one extra mob could easily (very easily) wipe the group. All of this is gone and dead by so much as four expansions back where everything is now AoE and rush rush pulling two groups at once until at least high mythics where a soupçon of CC can still be used.

 

For good or worse that's what the game evolved to, and this applies to CoH as well. Controllers might have been a hot commodity during the era of SOs but now everything is so tanky and so damaging that it's just a steamroller steamrolling. This isn't a particular dig at CC ATs though, most ATs are not needed in this day and age. We can do teams with only Scrappers or Brutes or even HEATs (damn, the burn!) and do the same bulldozing.

 

The only difference and why Controllers are singled out is that their skills tend to be disruptive.

[macskull]

I don’t really give a shit, at least if I’m pugging and not trying to set any speed records. If you’re being an asshat I’ll let you come along for the ride and then kick you right before the end of the TF. If I’m just throwing together a team for something I literally do not care who brings what as long as everyone is being useful. I’ve had people refuse to join content because I told them to “bring whatever you want” as they couldn’t wrap their minds around how people could be successful without a particular team makeup.

Edited November 4 by macskull

[tidge]

7 hours ago, ZemX said:

... I see some people being pretty judgmental in this thread about PuG leaders and I'd just say remember... PuGs are chaos.  Not everyone is totally into forming teams entirely by random and then dealing with the consequences.  If they see their radio or mission team filling up with lowbies, they might ask for a 50 in lfg or even a 50 tank/brute or something if they think the team could be safer with something like that. 

 

Heh. I was on two different Blue TF PUGs yesterday, each one had a mix of no fewer than 3 Tanker/Brutes. Taunt was never used, despite a couple of squishies getting flattened. I'll be kind and just guess that each of the Tanker/Brutes thought one of the other two was eventually going to Taunt.

 

[Without_Pause]

(Illusion Control sits back and laughs)

 

For the record, even a Controller I use which has the AoE Immobilization power, it is used after other controls are used and is really used for damage, see procs. If you don't want something like a Fire or Plant controller using the AoE Immobilization power while being backed with a T4 Hybrid Control, then by all means don't invite me as it is your loss and not mine. 

[Tacheyon]

12 hours ago, srmalloy said:

You would have cringed at the all-MM ITF that Kay organized on Guardian back on Live. Not only did we have 48+ henchmen thrown into the caves maps, but this was before MM henchmen lost their collision box, so they would block up the tunnels to boot. It was a pain making sure that the melee-set MMs were at the front as we moved so the ranged-set MMs didn't block them from getting to the Cimerorans.

 

Back before Sunset I was a part of an all MM VG.  We would run Strike Groups every weekend and this was near the beginning where summoning and upgrading took forever!

And believe me we knew all about collision and caves!  But it was one of my favourite times in CoH/CoV!  Nowadays with Burnout + Gang War for double the Posse (giggity) and then Necro and Soul Extraction you can have over 100+ henchmen on screen until the engine dies and can't draw them or the Mobs!  The chaos is GLORIOUS!

 

That's why I have like 60% of all possible combinations of MM's at least up to 30.

[UltraAlt]

On 11/3/2024 at 3:21 PM, Timeshadow said:

Do you think CC toons are an issue when going for big pulls? Do they make any significant difference either way? 

 

I'm sure this same crowd is against knockback.

 

Sure. If someone is trying to herd and someone immobilizes a large chuck of the targets before the herder gets them into position, then, yeah, that could stop maximizing the herding .... or it could cause frustration to the player that is doing the herding ... or both.

 

Realize that someone that sends out a message like that "knows how to play" and they will be more than willing to tell you "how to play".

I would take it as a warning sign to avoid teaming with them.

[Neiska]

This kind of makes me want to make to most annoying AT possible. Controller with group fly, fold space, and knock back. Unsure what else. Just for giggles.

[Maelwys]

38 minutes ago, Neiska said:

This kind of makes me want to make to most annoying AT possible. Controller with group fly, fold space, and knock back. Unsure what else. Just for giggles.

Grav/ for Wormhole + Dimensional Shift. And a Singularity slotted for MORE knockback (rather than KD>KB)
/Storm for Hurricane, Tornado and Gale.
I'm torn on the Epic Pool. Energy Mastery for Energy Torrent; Ice Mastery for Ice Storm, or Psionic Mastery for Psi Tornado... 🤔
 

[BZRKR]

3 minutes ago, Maelwys said:

Grav/ for Wormhole + Dimensional Shift. And a Singularity slotted for MORE knockback (rather than KD>KB)
/Storm for Hurricane, Tornado and Gale.
I'm torn on the Epic Pool. Energy Mastery for Energy Torrent; Ice Mastery for Ice Storm, or Psionic Mastery for Psi Tornado... 🤔
 

A possible runner up: Grav/ Dark for Dimension Shift and Black Hole? And don't forget Leviathan Mastery for Waterspout and Hibernate to give you time to type in chat 🙂

[Frostbiter]

I think everyone is ignoring the common denominator here: people. People suck and if you involve them in things you can expect it to go poorly.

[laudwic]

On 11/3/2024 at 7:04 PM, WumpusRat said:

Forming ITF, no tankers, no brutes, no scrappers, no stalkers, no dominators, no controllers, no defenders, no corruptors, no blasters, no masterminds, no sentinels.

Good players only.

 

I think I saw that exact statement in LFG Chat by someone called "Calamari Commander"

[Timeshadow]

On 11/3/2024 at 7:27 PM, mechahamham said:

I've heard this same person recruiting and got pretty much the same response when I asked them about this seemingly bizarre requirement. They were also excluding masterminds when I saw them.

 

I noticed the MM restriction as well. Don't get me wrong, I've had frustrations with players running every AT at one time or another but I never blamed the AT for it.

I've been around long enough to have heard the AoE immob argument and I've seen it happen. This long chain of mobs strung out in a hallway or around a corner, just blasting away while the Tank grinds their teeth. It's one of many reasons I gravitate towards "self-sufficient" builds that can either hold their own for a while or avoid combat altogether in the event of a problem.

Still, I don't agree with the mindset this player seems to have taken on. It feels like a very linear approach to a game that allows for very non-linear playstyles. If I had to guess, I'd say the person doing the recruiting comes from other MMOs where there's a right way and a wrong way to approach every encounter. That's fine, I guess, but it ain't for me.  

[Tacheyon]

15 hours ago, Neiska said:

This kind of makes me want to make to most annoying AT possible. Controller with group fly, fold space, and knock back. Unsure what else. Just for giggles.

 

I have a Grav/Energy Dom in the works, so far lots of chaos there along with Dimension shift and Fold Space! 

 

But for Controllers anything Illusion or Gravity paired with Force Field or Storm.   Using Energy, Earth, Psi or Levi for your Epic.  Too bad there isn't anything in the Incarnates to maximize the chaos.

 

Make sure to try a Energy/Storm Corruptor, that'll probably get you kicked off teams really fast!

 

Darn...now I have a few new characters to make....and no ToT crack to level them fast!

 

Edit - Spelling

Edited November 6 by Tacheyon