Proc Monsters - Controller Edition

[Dahle]

12 hours ago, Coyote said:

 

I think that was bad advice. A Knockback proc would activate if you activate a power that does knockback. I think this can work if the power you activate is a summons that can do knockback (Tornado). However, Carrion Creepers does not summon the tendrils which do knockback, but rather a patch that only Immobilizes and summons tendrils. So the patch itself doesn't do knockback, which means that when you summon it, you're not summoning a power that does knockback but rather one that will eventually summon the powers with knockback. So I don't think that it can trigger upon you from Carrion Creepers.

I am pretty sure this is correct.  The power is only going to activate the Force Feedback Proc on the initial cast of Creepers, and because it doesn't cause a knockback effect at that time, it won't proc the +Rech.

[Hew]

So, one more dumb question. I am currently slotting 4 expedient reinforcement + a lady grey chance for neg damage in flytrap. Does flytrap fire a lot of -def attacks that it could proc with?

[Coyote]

6 hours ago, Hew said:

So, one more dumb question. I am currently slotting 4 expedient reinforcement + a lady grey chance for neg damage in flytrap. Does flytrap fire a lot of -def attacks that it could proc with?

 

A decent amount and, more importantly, its main AoE, if I recall correctly. 3 out of 4 attacks do -Def, with the AoE Immoblize the only one that doesn't, and I think it's more of an Immobilize and less of a damage-oriented AoE.

[EmperorSteele]

2 hours ago, 5099y_74c05 said:

There is no such thing. The forums are a place to exchange ideas and grow the body of knowledge as a community. No one should feel embarrassed to ask anything here....related to the game of course. Ask away!

 

WHATS BETTER TO PLAY ALIANCE OR HOAERD?! ALSO HOW DO I BUY GOLD PLS K THNX!

[arcane]

Can we look at getting all the proc monster threads stickied/pinned? They’re easily the most valuable threads in the AT subforums IMO.

 

EDIT: Also I think I just read Myshkin say Acid Arrow - the power that delivers 4-5 damage procs and/or 2 -res procs - is “skippable” now and I’m a little offended 🙂

Edited February 9, 2021 by arcaneholocaust

[Hjarki]

 

On 12/8/2020 at 12:35 AM, Sir Myshkin said:

The two more core things that have changed are Acid Arrow and PGA (and a third slightly lower relevance in EMP Arrow). Acid Arrow (in my opinion) has lost its relevance now and isn’t nearly as worthwhile, and PGA now has a significant debuff worth using. EMP’s changes also make it useful for the altered duration of its debuff and bonus features.

 

Flash Arrow is also worth slotting a bit to max out its -ToHit. None of these changes particularly cry out to the proc side of things however, and actually end up with a reduction of proc compatibility.

 

Since you asked in the Controller edition: Dark or Earth Control. In general though? Storm/Energy Defender (and upon just know thinking of it, slightly curious about a Dark/Storm Controller all of a sudden).

To necro this a bit:

 

Acid Arrow can take an Energy and Fire proc, which gives it ~75% chance to ignite Oil Slick. While this may be unnecessary for certain builds, it's very necessary for others.

 

Poison Gas Arrow is skippable on most builds. -50% damage is nice, but it's one-debuff-too-many. Normally you don't get a chance to lay in multiple AE debuffs in a battle and there are normally better ways to marginalize a spawn. I can imagine it might be useful on something like Electric/TA, where you could layer stacking sleeps.

 

Flash Arrow can't realistically take procs unless you're willing to surrender it's use out of battle. 6-slot Cloud Senses would be great, but 4-slot is sufficient.

Edited February 9, 2021 by Hjarki

[Frosticus]

3 hours ago, arcaneholocaust said:

EDIT: Also I think I just read Myshkin say Acid Arrow - the power that delivers 4-5 damage procs and/or 2 -res procs - is “skippable” now and I’m a little offended 🙂

Weigh the proc probability vs the cast time vs the duration/value of the debuffs.

 

Acid arrow does a lot of cool things, but I'd probably just leave it as  base slot. It would be on the chopping block if the build got tight. 

 

If I dedicate a bunch of slots to a power (forgoing bonuses) I expect to use it often. If you are spamming acid arrow you might want to rethink how you are approaching enemies. 

[arcane]

Well I for one am spamming acid arrow in AoE settings. Not sure how to process that being wrong when it feels so right.

 

Mine is slotted 4 damage procs and 2 -res. My main TA atm, TA/beam has Vigor atm to justify filling a couple powers with only procs. The lack of a fire ball type power in the primary probably contributes to the usage of acid arrow instead. 
 

And I’m not sure how it plays out but I’m not convinced the -Special on new acid arrow isn’t also somehow worthwhile behind the scenes.

Edited February 9, 2021 by arcaneholocaust

[Hjarki]

50 minutes ago, arcaneholocaust said:

Well I for one am spamming acid arrow in AoE settings. Not sure how to process that being wrong when it feels so right.

 

Mine is slotted 4 damage procs and 2 -res. My main TA atm, TA/beam has Vigor atm to justify filling a couple powers with only procs. The lack of a fire ball type power in the primary probably contributes to the usage of acid arrow instead. 
 

And I’m not sure how it plays out but I’m not convinced the -Special on new acid arrow isn’t also somehow worthwhile behind the scenes.

A 5-proc'd Acid Arrow and a 3-proc'd Fireball (from Epic pools) are about the same dps. However, as I noted above, Acid Arrow actually exists in the set while Fireball requires taking a specific pool power. This is a major issue with certain primaries (Illusion, Cold, Dark, etc.) which may have no other decent way to ignite the Oil Slick. It's not all that significant an issue with primaries (Electric, Fire) that are likely to ignite it as a matter of course.

 

In terms of the -special, it's awfully hard to tell because most of what it does isn't displayed by the Power Analyzer. However, we can run some basic tests to observe what happens. For example, on a TA/Electrical Defender, a fully slotted Short Circuit will drain about 70% of an (even level) enemy's endurance bar. With Acid Arrow, it will floor their endurance. From my perspective, the main value is that it can act as stacking -regen. A perma-Hasten TA Controller will average -375% Regen over time, which jumps to -525% over time with Acid Arrow.

 

In terms of the -resist procs, having both procs will average about -20% resist on a single target over time at perma-Hasten (it's a 25 yard radius, so the area factor is punishing).

 

 

[Coyote]

Getting comparable damage out of a 25' radius power that also does some debuffing compared to a 15' radius Fireball that only does direct damage kind of leaves me wanting to spam it (AA, not Fireball).

It also depends on your AT... Defenders/Corruptors may have better attacks, Controllers often don't, and MMs certainly don't have enough good AoE attacks to skip this. It also helps that the End cost is pretty low for a Fireball equivalent, especially on a MM that is normally penalized on the Endurance cost of direct damage attacks.

[Frosticus]

Just for clarity:

Acid arrow is a 15ft radius debuff,

but the damage is only 8ft radius.

(at least that's what I'm recalling)

 

So you'd want to make sure to slot the defense related procs if you want to do damage over a larger area as the aoe procs should only proc on the 8ft portion.

 

I'd have to test it again, but when I used it during the beta I wasn't amazed by the proc rates, or aoe damage capabilities of the power. Plus the debuff lasts super long now (45 sec) so I don't feel tempted to reapply it in most fights. It could well be better than I recall though.

[Coyote]

That sounds more believable... I didn't see it looking like it was hitting a 25' radius on my MM. Actually, I'm happy with an 8' damage radius, makes it less of an AoE and more of a mini-AoE/ST attack, which on a MM with poor attacks isn't a bad thing. Or on a Controller. Just not on a Defender/Corruptor.

[arcane]

The question I have is would the proc chance consider the radius of one vs. the other, or is it just the same for all procs whether def debuff or AoE. 

[Sir Myshkin]

On 2/9/2021 at 1:16 PM, arcaneholocaust said:

Well I for one am spamming acid arrow in AoE settings. Not sure how to process that being wrong when it feels so right.

Acid Arrow’s ability to carry multiple procs is nice, don’t get me wrong, but the core purpose of having that power was the -Res debuff that now no longer exists in it. I—among some others—felt since alpha testing the changes that the alterations made AA a rather skippable power (which incidentally the conglomerate changes demanded for at least one or two “junk” powers). There was never a circumstance that really made it a warranted or worthwhile inclusion in an attack cycle.

I do get that the proc aspect is a considerable value, but it lacks consistency to be a spam-focused power just for the random proc alone. Back before the change when I was playing TA/A Defender I never applied Acid more than once per spawn because I was easily clearing with RoA and Fistful alongside the few burst procs and debuffs. Also given how the algorithm for procs in AoEs works, once a spawn starts shrinking below five bodies the probability tanks. Definitely play to what makes you experience the most fun, but from an analytical aspect there are far more better combinations of power choices for nearly every possible build configuration.

 

 

On 2/9/2021 at 11:07 AM, Hjarki said:

Poison Gas Arrow is skippable on most builds. -50% damage is nice, but it's one-debuff-too-many.

-Damage is a far more powerful debuff than many might expect and a good chunk of that debuff is unresistable. Between PGA and Flash a TA player should be looking at what best balance/benefits the team. Those two debuffs give the set a very unique ability to equally support Defense and Resistance based allies in a big way. I’d be looking at my team dynamic and choosing the opener that will provide the most dynamic support. A team of resistance characters with average slotting in the 50-60% are going to get a big boon from -50% acting like +50 shield.

 

As a TA Defender I rarely used Flash pre-buff because it was a pretty gimmicky utility in my experience once a character was soft capped. My troubles were always dealing with damage that did get through, and PGA easily softens that blow leaving me down to PGA+Disruption as openers over what used to be AA+Dis.

[arcane]

Everything you say is correct. It’s just not quite adding up to “skippable” to me. When I said I spam it I meant I use it every spawn really - not like it’s part of a single target attack chain. But like I said, as a /beam defender my current TA might just feel like it needs a good quick recharge AoE more than other combos. I tried to proc bomb Cutting Beam once but it was just pure garbage due to its proc rate. (I have a dark/TA troller too but it’s been gutted and shelved for awhile.)

Edited February 12, 2021 by arcaneholocaust

[skoryy]

A little bit of a necro, but long story short I pulled my elec / time off the shelf and wanted to see just how these proc monsters work.  I cobbled together a build from @Sir Myshkin's page one experiments, put it together on Brainstorm, and gave it a test solo +4/x8 run against Malta and Council.

 

Aside from navigating some end issues, hooboy that was fun.  Not quite as blasty as my blasters, but there's always something to press, her health bar was rarely an issue, and mobs just died fast when they weren't flopping around like NBA stars.  I'm posting the build in case there's updates I'm missing or tweak suggestions:

 

This Hero build was built using Mids Reborn 3.0.5.7
https://github.com/Reborn-Team/MidsReborn

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Relativity Rabbit Proc: Level 50 Technology Controller
Primary Power Set: Electric Control
Secondary Power Set: Time Manipulation
Power Pool: Flight
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Leadership
Ancillary Pool: Primal Forces Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Tesla Cage -- GhsWdwEmb-Acc/EndRdx(A), GhsWdwEmb-Dam%(3), UnbCns-Dam%(3), GldNet-Dam%(5), NrnSht-Dam%(5), GldJvl-Dam%(7)
Level 1: Time Crawl -- Acc-I(A)
Level 2: Chain Fences -- SprFrzBls-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(A), SprFrzBls-Dmg/EndRdx(11), SprFrzBls-Acc/Dmg(11), TraoftheH-Dam%(13), PstBls-Dam%(13), Rgn-Knock%(15)
Level 4: Temporal Mending -- Prv-Heal(A), Prv-Heal/EndRdx(15), Prv-EndRdx/Rchg(17), Prv-Heal/Rchg(17), Prv-Heal/Rchg/EndRdx(19), Prv-Absorb%(19)
Level 6: Jolting Chain -- SprWntBit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(A), SprWntBit-Acc/Dmg(21), FrcFdb-Rechg%(21), Apc-Dam%(23), ExpStr-Dam%(23), GldJvl-Dam%(25)
Level 8: Conductive Aura -- EndMod-I(A)
Level 10: Temporal Selection -- DctWnd-Heal/Rchg(A)
Level 12: Fly -- Empty(A)
Level 14: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(25)
Level 16: Distortion Field -- SprEnt-End/Rchg(A), SprEnt-Rchg/AbsorbProc(27), GhsWdwEmb-Dam%(27), GldNet-Dam%(29), NrnSht-Dam%(29), ImpSwf-Dam%(31)
Level 18: Hover -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), ShlWal-Def/EndRdx(31), ShlWal-ResDam/Re TP(31)
Level 20: Boxing -- Empty(A)
Level 22: Tough -- GldArm-3defTpProc(A), GldArm-End/Res(33), GldArm-ResDam(33)
Level 24: Weave -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(33), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(34)
Level 26: Synaptic Overload -- SprWiloft-Rchg/Dmg%(A), SprWiloft-Acc/Conf/Hold/Immob/Sleep/Stun/Fear/EndRdx(34), SprWiloft-Acc/Conf/Hold/Immob/Sleep/Stun/Fear/EndRdx/Rchg(34), SprWiloft-Acc/Conf/Hold/Immob/Sleep/Stun/Fear(36), SprWiloft-EndRdx/Rchg(36), MlsIll-Dam%(36)
Level 28: Farsight -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def(37), LucoftheG-Def/Rchg(50)
Level 30: Maneuvers -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(37), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(37)
Level 32: Gremlins -- ExpRnf-Acc/Rchg(A), ExpRnf-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(39), ExpRnf-EndRdx/Dmg/Rchg(39), ExpRnf-Acc/Dmg(39), SlbAll-Build%(40), OvrFrc-Dam/KB(40)
Level 35: Slowed Response -- AchHee-ResDeb%(A), AnlWkn-Acc/Rchg/EndRdx(40), ShlBrk-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(42)
Level 38: Chrono Shift -- EffAdp-EndMod/Rchg(A), DctWnd-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(42), NmnCnv-Heal/Rchg(42), NmnCnv-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(43)
Level 41: Power Blast -- Apc-Dmg(A), Apc-Dmg/Rchg(43), Apc-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(43), Apc-Acc/Rchg(45), Apc-Dmg/EndRdx(45), GldJvl-Dam%(45)
Level 44: Energy Torrent -- Rgn-Dmg(A), Rgn-Dmg/Rchg(46), Rgn-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(46), Rgn-Acc/Rchg(46), Rgn-Dmg/EndRdx(48), FrcFdb-Rechg%(48)
Level 47: Temp Invulnerability -- StdPrt-ResDam/Def+(A), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx(48), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(50), UnbGrd-Max HP%(50)
Level 49: Power Boost -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Containment 
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Swift -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Health -- Pnc-Heal/+End(A), NmnCnv-Regen/Rcvry+(7), Mrc-Rcvry+(9)
Level 1: Hurdle -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Stamina -- PrfShf-End%(A), PrfShf-EndMod(9)
Level 12: Afterburner 
Level 50: Intuition Radial Paragon 
Level 50: Clarion Core Epiphany 
------------

Edited August 8, 2021 by skoryy

[Carnifax]

On 2/9/2021 at 7:16 PM, arcane said:

Well I for one am spamming acid arrow in AoE settings. Not sure how to process that being wrong when it feels so right.

 

Mine is slotted 4 damage procs and 2 -res. My main TA atm, TA/beam has Vigor atm to justify filling a couple powers with only procs. The lack of a fire ball type power in the primary probably contributes to the usage of acid arrow instead. 
 

And I’m not sure how it plays out but I’m not convinced the -Special on new acid arrow isn’t also somehow worthwhile behind the scenes.

This is sorta my Acid Arrow setup too (less one Res proc for an Acc) on my Grav/TA. 

 

I've no idea what the -Special is doing overall but having a (slightly sporadic) extra AoE which will light Oil Slick about half the time is nice (although he has Ball Lightning too now anyway).

[Sir Myshkin]

On 8/8/2021 at 9:40 AM, skoryy said:

A little bit of a necro, but long story short I pulled my elec / time off the shelf and wanted to see just how these proc monsters work.

The great thing is that this stuff hasn't really changed so all the info is still relevant and functional. Your build looks like it checks all the right boxes too. Chrono Shift will be perma with a trigger of a FF+Rech proc, and you've got the right balance in your attacks. Only thing I'm seeing off the bat I could suggest is pulling a slot from Slowed Response to add the Reactive 3% Res IO since you don't need any Acc adjustment in that power with how high it starts.

[skoryy]

4 hours ago, Sir Myshkin said:

Only thing I'm seeing off the bat I could suggest is pulling a slot from Slowed Response to add the Reactive 3% Res IO since you don't need any Acc adjustment in that power with how high it starts.

 

I checked Mids' and in-game and Slowed Response has the same base 1.00x (75%) accuracy.  It would be nice to slot in that Reactive proc though, so I put it in Hover in place of the Shield Wall def/end.

[Sir Myshkin]

5 hours ago, skoryy said:

 

I checked Mids' and in-game and Slowed Response has the same base 1.00x (75%) accuracy.  It would be nice to slot in that Reactive proc though, so I put it in Hover in place of the Shield Wall def/end.

 

Don't forget your build is backed by Farsight which is going to grant you 10% bonus To-Hit (22% once you get Power Boost), and your posted final build has 30% Global Accuracy. With just one level 50 Acc/End/Rech Analyze Weakness slotted it tips its rech to pretty close ED cap of 28/s, 12 End, and ~93% Acc against +4.

[arcane]

Apologies if I missed this - I could’ve sworn this was covered in this thread but my search is failing me...

 

@Sir Myshkin or anyone else: was there testing done on Shadow Field to assess its proc behavior? I vaguely recall maybe reading that it was not good with procs but would like to confirm.

[Hover]

Has the way procs work been changed on homecoming since the start of this thread? just curious if this info is up-to-date. 

[Sovera]

17 minutes ago, Hover said:

Has the way procs work been changed on homecoming since the start of this thread? just curious if this info is up-to-date. 

 

It's all up to date, despite people reminding us every couple of years how there is no point in building anything with procs because 'they will soon be nerfed'.

[Crysis]

1 hour ago, Sovera said:

 

It's all up to date, despite people reminding us every couple of years how there is no point in building anything with procs because 'they will soon be nerfed'.

Once the data mining says that Regen scrapper population is <4, procs are next.