Proc Monsters - Controller Edition

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4 hours ago, Sir Myshkin said:

Test #4 Part B, Plant Control w/ Epics Leviathan & Mace

 

So a couple days back I posted up a teaser video of Plant/Dark/Leviathan with a couple of highlight points about things I'd be talking about with the following write up:

1. You may notice a declaration of something unseen in any of the prior tested Proc Monster builds in this video.
2. Uncovered discrepancies between Mids and In-Game information.
3. An interesting function in Carrion Creepers I wasn't aware of.
4. The sacrifice needed to make Plant Control sing as a Proc Monster

I'm going to touch on all these throughout here, just refreshing that list for reference within.

 

So lets talk about Plant Control. There is definitely a lot going on with this set, and a lot of choices have to be made about the progression of this set for a player. There are seven powers in the set that can take damage procs, an eighth technical power can take some sleep stuff (haven't generally counted those powers for much of anything as they're pretty straight forward and rather limited). We otherwise have our standard trio of ST Immob, ST Hold, T-AoE Immob, then Seeds, Vines, Creepers, and the Fly Trap. At least four of these powers need six slots to pack procs, one that can do 4-6 to be effective, and then whatever gamble a player makes on the others (but likely still 6 on Strangler). So that's 36 slots devoted to six attacks, with pure proc-planning, that's a lot!

 

Strangler

Pretty standard hold slotting at this point with four hold damage procs, one gladiator damage proc, and use the last slot to boost Acc/Dam

 

Roots

I haven't dove to excessively into some of these powers because they do sort of speak for themselves, but I'll touch on at least one T-AoE a bit more with this set. There's two basic +Dam Procs slottable, the Posi and the Trap of the Hunter (TotH) with the rest being status impacts (KD, Disorient, Hold Chance, etc). If we try and focus on maximized damage, and also look at the whole build, Roots is probably one of the best places to drop a 5-piece of the Positron's Blast to pick up the proc, and the 6.25% Recharge, and cap it off with a TotH proc. Get both damage options and some global reach that'll get to be kind of tight to achieve.

 

Seeds of Confusion

Powers like this that pop AoE Confusion have two directions they can go. Either take the purple set and focus on Contagious Confusion to amplify the confuse mag chance, or go the damage route and pack in the damage procs. The AT-O also has a damage proc, so there's quite a bit of potential flexibility with this power. Malaise's Illusions and the AT-O both give a good chunk of global rech too. If you're willing to drop the AT-O set in Seeds, that's 10%, and the potential for two damage procs. Otherwise, Seeds with just the Contagious (purple set including proc), focus on just mag boosting and still get 10%. Otherwise set worked just as expected in both regards when tested.

 

Vines

Another standard slot-it-with-hold-procs power that can be reduced to a bit over a minute in recharge and make it pretty viable for occasional nuking. Worked pretty much just as expected compared to other similar powers.

 

Fly Trap

This lovely little critter has something available to it that not many recharge-focused pets have: Access to Achilles Heel! I tested both the Heel and the +Dam proc in the trap. Spiked Achilles quite a bit, but I'm not sure that the damage proc ended up being worth the offset compared to using the Soulbound +BU proc overall between the impact of -Res in itself, and what -Res being suffered around it. It was kind of nice to see it going off and adding another layer of insanity into the mix.

 

Carrion Creepers

I saved this power for last in the Primary list because it's the one power that has a lot of attention right now. This thing can get loaded with a TON of procs, making it the most hungry of the collection that an individual player is going to have to work through to determine best option. I tried to collect game data on activations to do a better analysis of what, when, and how often each procs were likely going off, and share it here for analysis, but I couldn't seem to get Test to convert the chat filed into a .txt after logging/close down the game. Carrion Creepers create a massive spike in the logs and trying to sift through it in-game was a nuissance. I'm going to have to go back over it more fine-tooth later (and also figure out why chat-logging suddenly stopped on Test).

 

For slotting, the biggest thing to me was getting an immediate burst of Recharge in there. This thing has a killer cooldown. Something I realized just now I forgot to check was also the accuracy aspect. The Mids tooltipping has an * next to the Acc percentage which typically indicated something that was PvP specific, or had a PvP altering aspect. I didn't initially slot any accuracy beyond what was naturally in the build in order to run out and try procs on a bunch of low-level junk, but then I also took it against a Pylon, and then even ran into groups of 51 and 54 Rikti to test some survivability and still the Creepers were popping out and attacking just fine and flooding my combat window like a waterfall.

 

3.) I mentioned before that Creepers do something I hadn't been aware of, which is kind of a neat aspect of the power in the realm of dealing with its rather long recharge. Whether this is tied specifically to the power looking for "dead" enemies or not after its activation, I couldn't say, or if the effect field you initiate secretly travels with the player, and is not dropped on the ground. The thing that happens is that if I drop the Creeper patch, and then move away from it and engage with a new enemy within that 120/s window, the Creepers will spawn on that new mob. So far I've managed to get them to spawn as far apart as one Pylon distance (#16 to #17) without resummoning them. This too will require a bit more investigation.

 

Epics Leviathan and Mace

 

I was pretty please in both cases of these two epics, but there is some potential for slot ratio struggle if really pouring into just about any Epic, especially one that really wants to burn six slots in several abilities.

 

Poisonous Ray

Does its own -Res, then can take the -Res Achilles Heel, then three damage procs on top of that. If you can get the recharge to the 8-10 second range, this power would be an easy pick as it'd have a bunch of burst potential with procs, and easy reapplication of the -Res from the Heel. Given that a Controller build is likely lacking in a swarm of ST attacks, this a nice strong swing for one and the procs carry this over the 200 damage mark before -Res effects. I got pretty consistent results with this loaded up.

 

Disruptor Blast

This was a quirk power that did a lot better when tossed at a ST than what I'd anticipated. Between being able to take a FF+Rech, and the -Res Annihilation, I feel it was nearly worth using it in a ST chain just for the added effects. But, as expected, got the usual proc effects in an AoE scenario. Between the bonus burst of two +Dam procs, and the FF+Rech, I think that's enough to make the power actually viable. Its really heavy endurance cost was definitely noticed though, which is kind of its biggest set back

 

Tarantuala

Another pet that takes an Achilles Heel proc?! No Way! The list is now two! Ah, Ah, Ah! Some interesting side note here. The attack that the Spider uses is Venom Burst to trigger the procs (both -Res and +Dam), which is one that's on the longer side of use. The -Res is beneficial for everything for a decent window, but that proc only going off once periodically kind of sucked. It's a useful place to drop a proc if the slot is available, but I'm not convinced that its enough to warrant keeping it there when there's other places that really need it for more consistent effects

 

Water Spout

A lot of people know that this power does some crazy things damage wise, plus it takes two -Res proc which vastly improves just how much it hits for. It can also take a couple of damage procs, but they don't go off often after the initial launch of the power, so they may not really be worth slotting when 1) this power is one that actually needs damage enhancement, and 2) FF+Rech can go into this and helps shrink its recharge so we want a slot for that too.

 

Coralax

Little disappointed here. This was a power where I discovered what mids reflected, and what was in game, didn't line up. 2.) The -Def components aren't slottable for this ability, so no proc option, and no -Res Achilles Heel option. So chance to cap the pet at just a 4-piece of expedient unless wanting to grab a couple of +Def uniques that'll spread to any other pets.

 

Starving Proc Monster

This set having a few more powers that really need to be in the build, but that also require a good chunk of slots make building Plant Control kind of difficult. Knowing that I was testing Epics with the Primary, I made some power choice compromises like not taking Vines when I kind of wanted to, or getting Tactics into the build to help shore-up some accuracy. What's interesting is when I did a survival test to collect Carrion Creepers data (that didn't save -_-), I never altered accuracy any further, yet was pretty smooth sailing against level 54 Rikti. My inherent accuracy on the crushed test build was light in a few areas for +4, but worked out okay being +1'd.

 

Secondary choice, and Epic choice are going to have a pretty big impact on slot choice variety for Plant. Probably Epic most of all. Something I noticed in doing test runs, in keeping the Epic pet alive alongside my Primary pet, they added a pretty significant contribution to taking things down. In the Pylon testing, I had an early failure where I lost a Tarantula and pushed through, did okay, but not what I'd been getting. I feel like Plant is the most greedy slot set out of the selection.

 

A bit of a, I dunno, hole maybe, in Plant (since it can be easily grabbed in many others powers we've experienced so far), there's no inherent ability to yank FF+Rech triggers. I ended up putting Arcane Bolt into the builds for the +Rech it could provide, and to give the build a reasonable ST attack over using Entangle.

 

The other area where I was looking at "do we need to sacrifice here..." for was what some may have noticed was different in the Pylon video. I dropped in Agility Core of Intuition looking at trying to shave down some frustrating times on a few powers since I was only able to initially pack 140% global into the build and wanted to pull 3-4/s off quite a good amount of abilities still. Frosticus brought up dropping Nerve in for accuracy replacement, but I think that can be worked past still. Agility was a struggle some consideration, but I left it in and went off after a Pylon several times to test it out. Those times I got back were pretty solid.

 

Something that was interesting, however, is that I put Intuition back into the Alpha slot... just to see, just to see, and went and attacked another Pylon. I took it down about 20-30/s faster. Didn't change any of the other slotting, just swapped that one thing out, and still went blindingly quick through that test runs. The thing that has me feeling like I know why is in the regards of all the pets being leveraged; two summon pets, and then Water Spout, still doing a ton of physical damage, and they're all directly impacted by what Intuition can provide (more damage, overcapped). I'll post the video for that additional run in a follow-up post later, but I wanted some of that initial "wow that was quick" before I turned around and topped it without even meaning to.

 

I'm going to post the "test" builds, and then also in the follow-up post a maximized version of Plant taking more consideration into epic choices, and trying to get a better balance in slot placements. Leviathan was very surprising speed twist so I'll likely focus on trying to tune up that build a little maybe and see if I can make it even stronger.

 

Plant/Dark/Leviathan:

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Hero Plan by Hero Hero Designer 2.23
https://github.com/ImaginaryDevelopment/imaginary-hero-designer

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Level 50 Natural Controller
Primary Power Set: Plant Control
Secondary Power Set: Darkness Affinity
Power Pool: Sorcery
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Leadership
Power Pool: Fighting
Ancillary Pool: Leviathan Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Strangler -- GhsWdwEmb-Dam%(A), SprWntBit-Acc/Dmg(13), UnbCns-Dam%(13), GldNet-Dam%(27), NrnSht-Dam%(29), GldJvl-Dam%(29)
Level 1: Twilight Grasp -- Pnc-Heal(A), Pnc-Heal/EndRedux(3), Pnc-EndRdx/Rchg(3), Pnc-Heal/Rchg(5), Pnc-Heal/EndRedux/Rchg(5), Acc-I(7)
Level 2: Roots -- PstBls-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(A), PstBls-Acc/Dmg(11), PstBls-Dmg/EndRdx(15), PstBls-Dmg/Rng(15), PstBls-Dam%(40), TraoftheH-Dam%(40)
Level 4: Tar Patch -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 6: Arcane Bolt -- Thn-Acc/Dmg(A), GldJvl-Dam%(27), ExpStr-Dam%(37), FrcFdb-Rechg%(37)
Level 8: Seeds of Confusion -- SprWiloft-Acc/Conf/Hold/Immob/Sleep/Stun/Fear/EndRdx/Rchg(A), SprWiloft-Acc/Conf/Hold/Immob/Sleep/Stun/Fear/EndRdx(34), SprWiloft-Conf/Hold/Immob/Sleep/Stun/Fear/Rchg(36), SprWiloft-EndRdx/Rchg(36), SprWiloft-Rchg/Dmg%(36), MlsIll-Dam%(37)
Level 10: Darkest Night -- EndRdx-I(A), EndRdx-I(11)
Level 12: Super Speed -- BlsoftheZ-ResKB(A)
Level 14: Howling Twilight -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 16: Shadow Fall -- LucoftheG-Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def(17), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(17), HO:Ribo(19), Rct-ResDam%(19), ShlWal-ResDam/Re TP(23)
Level 18: Maneuvers -- LucoftheG-Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(45)
Level 20: Fade -- LucoftheG-Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def/Rchg(21), RedFrt-Def/Rchg(21), Rct-Def/Rchg(23)
Level 22: Kick -- Acc-I(A)
Level 24: Tough -- GldArm-ResDam(A), GldArm-Res/Rech/End(25), GldArm-End/Res(25)
Level 26: Carrion Creepers -- PstBls-Dam%(A), RechRdx-I(40), Ann-ResDeb%(43), TraoftheH-Dam%(43), ImpSwf-Dam%(45), ExpStr-Dam%(46)
Level 28: Soul Absorption -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 30: Weave -- LucoftheG-Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def(31), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(31), Ksm-ToHit+(31)
Level 32: Fly Trap -- ExpRnf-Acc/Rchg(A), ExpRnf-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(33), ExpRnf-EndRdx/Dmg/Rchg(33), ExpRnf-Acc/Dmg(33), TchofLadG-%Dam(34), AchHee-ResDeb%(34)
Level 35: Spirit Tree -- Heal-I(A)
Level 38: Dark Servant -- CldSns-%Dam(A), CldSns-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(39), CldSns-Acc/Rchg(39), CldSns-ToHitDeb/EndRdx/Rchg(39)
Level 41: Water Spout -- PstBls-Dam%(A), Ann-ResDeb%(42), AchHee-ResDeb%(42), TchofLadG-%Dam(42), PstBls-Dmg/Rchg(43), SprFrzBls-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(46)
Level 44: Shark Skin -- StdPrt-ResDam/Def+(A), GldArm-End/Res(45), GldArm-3defTpProc(46)
Level 47: Summon Coralax -- ExpRnf-Acc/Dmg(A), ExpRnf-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(48), ExpRnf-Acc/Rchg(48), ExpRnf-EndRdx/Dmg/Rchg(48), EdcoftheM-PetDef(50), CaltoArm-+Def(Pets)(50)
Level 49: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(50)
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Containment
Level 1: Prestige Power Dash -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Slide -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Quick -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Rush -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Surge -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run
Level 2: Swift -- Run-I(A)
Level 2: Health -- Pnc-Heal/+End(A), NmnCnv-Regen/Rcvry+(7), Mrc-Rcvry+(9)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- PrfShf-EndMod(A), PrfShf-End%(9)
Level 50: Support Core Embodiment
Level 50: Ageless Core Epiphany
Level 50: Degenerative Core Flawless Interface
Level 50: Mighty Core Final Judgement
Level 50: Agility Core Paragon
------------

 

 

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Plant/Dark/Mace:

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Hero Plan by Hero Hero Designer 2.23
https://github.com/ImaginaryDevelopment/imaginary-hero-designer

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Level 50 Natural Controller
Primary Power Set: Plant Control
Secondary Power Set: Darkness Affinity
Power Pool: Sorcery
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Leadership
Power Pool: Fighting
Ancillary Pool: Mace Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Strangler -- GhsWdwEmb-Dam%(A), SprWntBit-Acc/Dmg(13), UnbCns-Dam%(13), GldNet-Dam%(27), NrnSht-Dam%(29), GldJvl-Dam%(29)
Level 1: Twilight Grasp -- Pnc-Heal(A), Pnc-Heal/EndRedux(3), Pnc-EndRdx/Rchg(3), Pnc-Heal/Rchg(5), Pnc-Heal/EndRedux/Rchg(5), Acc-I(7)
Level 2: Roots -- PstBls-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(A), PstBls-Acc/Dmg(11), PstBls-Dmg/EndRdx(15), PstBls-Dmg/Rng(15), PstBls-Dam%(40), TraoftheH-Dam%(40)
Level 4: Tar Patch -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 6: Arcane Bolt -- Thn-Acc/Dmg(A), GldJvl-Dam%(27), ExpStr-Dam%(37), FrcFdb-Rechg%(37)
Level 8: Seeds of Confusion -- SprWiloft-Acc/Conf/Hold/Immob/Sleep/Stun/Fear/EndRdx/Rchg(A), SprWiloft-Acc/Conf/Hold/Immob/Sleep/Stun/Fear/EndRdx(34), SprWiloft-Conf/Hold/Immob/Sleep/Stun/Fear/Rchg(36), SprWiloft-EndRdx/Rchg(36), SprWiloft-Rchg/Dmg%(36), MlsIll-Dam%(37)
Level 10: Darkest Night -- EndRdx-I(A), EndRdx-I(11)
Level 12: Super Speed -- BlsoftheZ-ResKB(A)
Level 14: Howling Twilight -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 16: Shadow Fall -- LucoftheG-Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def(17), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(17), HO:Ribo(19), Rct-ResDam%(19), ShlWal-ResDam/Re TP(23)
Level 18: Maneuvers -- LucoftheG-Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(23)
Level 20: Fade -- LucoftheG-Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def/Rchg(21), RedFrt-Def/Rchg(21), Empty(25)
Level 22: Kick -- Acc-I(A)
Level 24: Tough -- GldArm-ResDam(A), GldArm-End/Res(25), GldArm-3defTpProc(39), StdPrt-ResDam/Def+(45)
Level 26: Vines -- GhsWdwEmb-Dam%(A), GldNet-Dam%(40), NrnSht-Dam%(43), SprEnt-Rchg/AbsorbProc(43)
Level 28: Soul Absorption -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 30: Weave -- LucoftheG-Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def(31), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(31), Ksm-ToHit+(31)
Level 32: Fly Trap -- ExpRnf-Acc/Rchg(A), ExpRnf-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(33), ExpRnf-EndRdx/Dmg/Rchg(33), ExpRnf-Acc/Dmg(33), TchofLadG-%Dam(34), AchHee-ResDeb%(34)
Level 35: Spirit Tree -- Heal-I(A)
Level 38: Scorpion Shield -- LucoftheG-Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(39), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(39)
Level 41: Poisonous Ray -- AchHee-ResDeb%(A), TchofLadG-%Dam(42), ShlBrk-%Dam(42), GldJvl-Dam%(42), Thn-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(43), SprWntBit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(46)
Level 44: Disruptor Blast -- PstBls-Dam%(A), Ann-ResDeb%(45), FrcFdb-Rechg%(45), ExpStr-Dam%(46), SprFrzBls-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(46)
Level 47: Summon Tarantula -- ExpRnf-EndRdx/Dmg/Rchg(A), ExpRnf-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(48), ExpRnf-Acc/Dmg(48), ExpRnf-Acc/Rchg(48), TchofLadG-%Dam(50), AchHee-ResDeb%(50)
Level 49: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(50)
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Containment
Level 1: Prestige Power Dash -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Slide -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Quick -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Rush -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Surge -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run
Level 2: Swift -- Run-I(A)
Level 2: Health -- Pnc-Heal/+End(A), NmnCnv-Regen/Rcvry+(7), Mrc-Rcvry+(9)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- PrfShf-EndMod(A), PrfShf-End%(9)
Level 50: Support Core Embodiment
Level 50: Ageless Core Epiphany
Level 50: Degenerative Core Flawless Interface
Level 50: Mighty Core Final Judgement
Level 50: Agility Core Paragon
------------

 

 

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Plant/Dark/Soul:

  Reveal hidden contents

Hero Plan by Hero Hero Designer 2.23
https://github.com/ImaginaryDevelopment/imaginary-hero-designer

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Level 50 Natural Controller
Primary Power Set: Plant Control
Secondary Power Set: Darkness Affinity
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Leadership
Power Pool: Fighting
Ancillary Pool: Soul Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Strangler -- GhsWdwEmb-Dam%(A), SprWntBit-Acc/Dmg(13), UnbCns-Dam%(13), GldNet-Dam%(27), NrnSht-Dam%(29), GldJvl-Dam%(29)
Level 1: Twilight Grasp -- Pnc-Heal(A), Pnc-Heal/EndRedux(3), Pnc-EndRdx/Rchg(3), Pnc-Heal/Rchg(5), Pnc-Heal/EndRedux/Rchg(5), Acc-I(7)
Level 2: Roots -- PstBls-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(A), PstBls-Acc/Dmg(11), PstBls-Dmg/EndRdx(15), PstBls-Dmg/Rng(15), PstBls-Dam%(40), TraoftheH-Dam%(40)
Level 4: Tar Patch -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 6: Entangle -- Thn-Acc/Dmg(A), Apc-Dam%(27), GldJvl-Dam%(37), TraoftheH-Dam%(37)
Level 8: Seeds of Confusion -- SprWiloft-Acc/Conf/Hold/Immob/Sleep/Stun/Fear/EndRdx/Rchg(A), SprWiloft-Acc/Conf/Hold/Immob/Sleep/Stun/Fear/EndRdx(34), SprWiloft-Conf/Hold/Immob/Sleep/Stun/Fear/Rchg(36), SprWiloft-EndRdx/Rchg(36), SprWiloft-Rchg/Dmg%(36), MlsIll-Dam%(37)
Level 10: Darkest Night -- EndRdx-I(A), EndRdx-I(11)
Level 12: Super Speed -- BlsoftheZ-ResKB(A)
Level 14: Howling Twilight -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 16: Shadow Fall -- LucoftheG-Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def(17), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(17), HO:Ribo(19), Rct-ResDam%(19), ShlWal-ResDam/Re TP(23)
Level 18: Maneuvers -- LucoftheG-Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(45)
Level 20: Fade -- LucoftheG-Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def/Rchg(21), RedFrt-Def/Rchg(21), Rct-Def/Rchg(23)
Level 22: Kick -- Acc-I(A)
Level 24: Tough -- GldArm-ResDam(A), GldArm-Res/Rech/End(25), GldArm-End/Res(25)
Level 26: Carrion Creepers -- PstBls-Dam%(A), GrvAnc-Acc/Rchg(40), Ann-ResDeb%(43), TraoftheH-Dam%(43), ExpStr-Dam%(43), ImpSwf-Dam%(45)
Level 28: Soul Absorption -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 30: Weave -- LucoftheG-Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def(31), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(31), Ksm-ToHit+(31)
Level 32: Fly Trap -- ExpRnf-Acc/Rchg(A), ExpRnf-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(33), ExpRnf-EndRdx/Dmg/Rchg(33), ExpRnf-Acc/Dmg(33), TchofLadG-%Dam(34), AchHee-ResDeb%(34)
Level 35: Spirit Tree -- Heal-I(A)
Level 38: Dark Servant -- CldSns-%Dam(A), CldSns-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(39), CldSns-Acc/Rchg(39), CldSns-ToHitDeb/EndRdx/Rchg(39)
Level 41: Dark Embrace -- StdPrt-ResDam/Def+(A), GldArm-End/Res(42), GldArm-Res/Rech/End(42), GldArm-3defTpProc(42)
Level 44: Dark Obliteration -- CldSns-%Dam(A), PstBls-Dam%(45), SprFrzBls-Rchg/ImmobProc(46), SprFrzBls-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(46), SprFrzBls-Acc/Dmg(46)
Level 47: Soul Drain -- Arm-Dam%(A), Obl-%Dam(48), Erd-%Dam(48), ScrDrv-Dam%(48), Arm-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(50), RechRdx-I(50)
Level 49: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(50)
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Containment
Level 1: Prestige Power Dash -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Slide -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Quick -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Rush -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Surge -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run
Level 2: Swift -- Run-I(A)
Level 2: Health -- Pnc-Heal/+End(A), NmnCnv-Regen/Rcvry+(7), Mrc-Rcvry+(9)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- PrfShf-EndMod(A), PrfShf-End%(9)
Level 50: Support Core Embodiment
Level 50: Ageless Core Epiphany
Level 50: Degenerative Core Flawless Interface
Level 50: Mighty Core Final Judgement
Level 50: Agility Core Paragon
------------

 

 

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Remember, those were test builds, not "optimal" builds, there's some inherent flaws in a couple of them that can be ironed out, but they'll run decently.

More great info and builds.   Thanks so much for all this research you are doing Sir Myshkin.  Really making me want to do a Plant controller right now, but I'll probably go Dark/Poison since I already have a Plant dominator I like.  Creepers is just one of the best powers and the game and its goodness keeps on giving!

[Coyote]

7 hours ago, Sir Myshkin said:

3.) I mentioned before that Creepers do something I hadn't been aware of, which is kind of a neat aspect of the power in the realm of dealing with its rather long recharge. Whether this is tied specifically to the power looking for "dead" enemies or not after its activation, I couldn't say, or if the effect field you initiate secretly travels with the player, and is not dropped on the ground. The thing that happens is that if I drop the Creeper patch, and then move away from it and engage with a new enemy within that 120/s window, the Creepers will spawn on that new mob. So far I've managed to get them to spawn as far apart as one Pylon distance (#16 to #17) without resummoning them. This too will require a bit more investigation.

 

Great job testing, Sir Myshkin.

 

Also, I'll save some time testing on this, although it's coming from my memory and I'm not going to look in the Wayback Machine for a post with exact details, but here it is:

Carrion Creepers is a drop power that drops a MOBILE, INVISIBLE pet. Kind of like Fulcrum Shift dropping a pet that then uses an AoE power around it, except that the CC pet remains for 120 seconds, AND TRAVELS with the character. This pet then pulses out an AoE aura that regularly summons the actual visible pets. Because you usually will summon it near enemies, the initial cast will summon it, it will immediately pulse, and the visible roots/tentacles start to appear, so it looks as if you're summoning the visible pets instead of what I call a "point pet". But, because you're summoning a point pet that lasts for 120 seconds and travels with you, after a while in a new spawn, it will pulse again and bring up the visible CC entities at the new spawn.

[Frosticus]

10 hours ago, parabola said:

You removed the slow proc? Going by your breakdown of the powers used by the patch I'd have thought that proc would be the star performer? Thanks for the analysis btw.

The procs attached to the aoe power *seem* to trigger the most in creepers.

-so aoe procs, immob, ato dam.

annihilation triggered 47 times over the life. Same x8 scenario as before.

-The slow proc barely triggers at all. 18 times.

-Kb dam proc is negligible

 

Best proc scenario for creepers vs groups: expect to see 40+ of each proc occur over the life.

posi, javelin, annihlation, ATO dam, trap.

 

Obviously these numbers could vary significantly with each run.

 

I'll run a few more times and see if anything interesting happens, but dam it takes a long time to parse the logs for creepers. Is there a faster way?

 

 

Edited August 24, 2019 by Frosticus

[Frosticus]

2 hours ago, Coyote said:

 

Great job testing, Sir Myshkin.

 

Also, I'll save some time testing on this, although it's coming from my memory and I'm not going to look in the Wayback Machine for a post with exact details, but here it is:

Carrion Creepers is a drop power that drops a MOBILE, INVISIBLE pet. Kind of like Fulcrum Shift dropping a pet that then uses an AoE power around it, except that the CC pet remains for 120 seconds, AND TRAVELS with the character. This pet then pulses out an AoE aura that regularly summons the actual visible pets. Because you usually will summon it near enemies, the initial cast will summon it, it will immediately pulse, and the visible roots/tentacles start to appear, so it looks as if you're summoning the visible pets instead of what I call a "point pet". But, because you're summoning a point pet that lasts for 120 seconds and travels with you, after a while in a new spawn, it will pulse again and bring up the visible CC entities at the new spawn.

Back on live it was determined that creepers travels below the surface. But an invisible pet along the ground makes sense too. I don't think it is attached to you, but does follow. You can clearly see this behaviour if you leave a couple enemies alive and then move on to the next spawn. Creepers will take way longer to join you as it stays fighting the remainders until it either kills them or disengages (like a pet would).

[Redlynne]

@Sir Myshkin I've reviewed both this thread and your Defender Offender threads and I'm not seeing any information on the testing of procs in either Entangling Arrow or Glue Arrow for the Trick Arrow powerset.  I presume that's simply because Entangling Arrow recharges too quickly to make it a good/decent PPM candidate and the procs that it could slot are somewhat lacking in potential usefulness, although you can slot a proc for Lethal and Smashing damage into it.  However Glue Arrow makes me wonder.  Is Glue Arrow functionally working like a (damaging) Rain power would with constrained proc potential?

 

Flash Arrow, of course, is something of a unique outlier case, since putting any kind of damage or debuff proc into it will compromise its ability to be used WITHOUT alerting mobs.  However, if you're willing to ditch an aggro free Flash Arrow, you can slot some damage and/or debuff procs into the power.

 

And what about Poison Gas Arrow?  Do any procs work in it?  And if they do work in Poison Gas Arrow, is there a "caster mismatch" issue where the effects of Poison Gas Arrow are being cast by a pseudo-pet and thus do not transfer/default back to your PC?  Induced Coma might be useful in this context, since that's -Recharge debuff cast on affected $Targets, but I would presume that the chance to Heal from Call of the Sandman wouldn't do anything useful for your Controller other than upon initial cast, and that the chance to Placate from Fortunata Hypnosis would "work" but ultimately not be "useful" in any meaningful way (since it would "placate" $Targets from attacking the pseudo-pet?).  That would still leave the Will of the Controller proc for Psionic damage as being potentially useful in Poison Gas Arrow, along with Overpowering Presence ... either of which could prove to be rather interesting in the context of Poison Gas Arrow depending on how it winds up working.  I'd also like to know if Poison Gas Arrow would get extra chances to proc (3 presumably? once on attack and again at 10s and 20 duration elapsed?) and if the summon from the Energy Font proc would appear at the Controller or in the Poison Gas AoE spawned by the power.

 

Might I impose upon you to test these combinations for us?  Knowing which procs "function" properly in which powers would be crucial to developing an optimized Trick Arrow enhancement build plan ... for Controllers, Corruptors and Defenders (Blasters get their own thing that isn't the same powerset).

[Sir Myshkin]

3 hours ago, Redlynne said:

I presume that's simply because Entangling Arrow recharges too quickly to make it a good/decent PPM candidate and the procs that it could slot are somewhat lacking in potential usefulness, although you can slot a proc for Lethal and Smashing damage into it.  However Glue Arrow makes me wonder.  Is Glue Arrow functionally working like a (damaging) Rain power would with constrained proc potential?

When I did TA for Defenders, it really comes down to the build just being a massive slot hog that didn't leave much room for "toy" effects. Entangling works fine with the two procs it gets normally. For Controllers they're definitely stuck with it, so utilizing it as a containment setup is a worthwhile consideration, and dropping at least the two damage procs helps make it a bit more worth the effort. Kind of a situational thing though, Entangling is just kind of a "blah" utility power both in context of a full TA/A Defender, or as a */TA Controller.

 

Glue Arrow drops just like many of the other powers in its wheel house do (like Quicksand), where the feedback is incredibly limited (as in non-existent). So no value there.

 

4 hours ago, Redlynne said:

Flash Arrow, of course, is something of a unique outlier case, since putting any kind of damage or debuff proc into it will compromise its ability to be used WITHOUT alerting mobs.  However, if you're willing to ditch an aggro free Flash Arrow, you can slot some damage and/or debuff procs into the power.

It'll take the Cloud Sense proc for sure, but I personally feel that defeats the primary utility of the power (unresistable -ToHit, of course, but also the fact that it gives you -Perception/Visibility which is kind useful, more so than Entangling or Glue Arrow at least).

 

4 hours ago, Redlynne said:

And what about Poison Gas Arrow?  Do any procs work in it? 

The field it creates gives a standard 10/s timer on Procs once it drops. So initial hit, than followup hits at the 10/s interval marks. Unlike some other AoE based powers with procs, however, the singular effects of things like Fortunata and Call of the Sandman don't seem to trigger off anything other than the primary target, and only at the initial cast. Given the recycle time is kind of higher, it was pretty consistent to proc it, but the placate is wasted on immediate aggro-effect of the PGA, overrides the chance to sleep, and angers the mob instantly. The heal effect is also terribly low. Be great if it could give that opportunity to cast off more than the primary, but doesn't appear to.

 

Unfortunately non of those powers (Entangling, PGA, Glue) really have any value impact in a Proc-focused build, (or really any build IMO). If I blazed over those (in full, or too briefly) in the Defender thread, I apologize.

[Sir Myshkin]

Follow Up Report

To touch back on Plant Control and the testing there, I sat down with the builds I had initialized and looked for some more/better paths of optimization that stayed true to their best functionality. Plant Control got a bit tricky to really pack in everything and run the most value for what it could do. I really wanted Vines to make a relevant appearance in one of the builds, but there is almost always a better option (by comparison) when it comes to some form of control. The ability to drop a few hold +dam procs into it gives it a good kick, but that power is still on a heck of a leash. For what it can do, far too often the Epic provided something that could recharge faster, and carry soft control.

 

Plant was also the first primary I ran into where trying to pair it fairly with a secondary was a bit of a struggle.  For Accuracy, I build and plan around the idea of facing against +4 content, but sometimes it has to be realized that once a character gets to their Alpha, most of the game is going to be hard-locked at +3 to them going forward. Incarnate content still has the potential of marginalizing above, but that's often going to come with a team where almost always one person has some kind of +Acc/ToHit balancing ability. So when I looked at trying to get Accuracy to balance +4, I knew I had to settle with the idea that +3 was more the reality of things.

 

I even went out and did general survivability testing with Plant/Dark to try out Carrion Creepers against spawns that'd survive a bit longer under their effects. Going around at ~90% (to +4), even when I swung at the 54's in the RWZ I wasn't struggling by any stretch. I looked at Recharge correction once I'd settled Accuracy was probably sufficient, and Agility even comes with some endurance modification potential, but it was mostly only shaving 1-2 relevant seconds off a couple of powers. Of course it made a lot of low-recharge stuff get a hairline fracture faster, but that's the lowest part of the concern-totem.

 

I decided the best way to test performance was to slot Agility and Intuition Alpha's to see which one came out the cleanest at the end of it. As we have in evidence with the Plant/Dark video, Agility wasn't too shabby and I walked away from a Pylon run with a pretty respectable number, especially for a Controller. Without changing anything but the Alpha, I went back again and saw a pretty quick decline by 20-30/s depending on how the run went. I recorded a couple, but didn't see the point in stamping out a new video that was marginally different than the last one just because it was a hair faster. The simplest thing was that, even with the sacrifice of rolling against marginal recharge losses, Intuition still did more in curving build damage. For Plant/Dark/Leviathan, it's also really important to talk about the fact that the build was sporting several of its own pets, each of which is impacted by the Alpha choice as well.

 

I think Alpha choice for the Controller builds that are tighter, will be entirely a dealer's-choice kind of thing. The builds got very rocky when trying to cram things into them. The way I'm looking at it, however, is more in perspective of the way with Defenders: maximizing the efficiency of the build. In the case of Plant, throwing Ageless at it to fix recharge shortages, and Intuition to round out its damage ended up being a consistent choice.

 

Dark Control

I didn't go full-blown bonus testing with Dark Control because I already had one live, and experienced procs with it. The biggest thing I can say is that the set has a lot of options, and I've not run into any one thing that didn't work exactly as it might be intended. That set doesn't seem to have any notable flaws, and definitely shows that it was designed in a way that more compliments Proc options than struggles to figure them out. I'll have a couple of builds (Dark/Time and Dark/Dark) I'll post as well.

 

General Topic Update

That ultimately puts me at the end of the road trip for Controllers. With all the primary testing put out of the way, I'll update the main thread topic with a more coherent notification of what was covered, and a primary list of builds to add into the main post.

 

If there were any questions that didn't get answered on something particular, let me know. I've been under the weather for the last few days so trying to keep a focused thought pattern on closing out Controller testing has been a struggle. Foul virus going around in the community and it has taken a toll on me. I feel like I might not have been as comprehensive as I thought I should be so...

 

24 hours, I'll have the primary thread/topic post updated

[Arctyc]

44 minutes ago, Sir Myshkin said:

Follow Up Report

To touch back on Plant Control and the testing there, I sat down with the builds I had initialized and looked for some more/better paths of optimization that stayed true to their best functionality. Plant Control got a bit tricky to really pack in everything and run the most value for what it could do. I really wanted Vines to make a relevant appearance in one of the builds, but there is almost always a better option (by comparison) when it comes to some form of control. The ability to drop a few hold +dam procs into it gives it a good kick, but that power is still on a heck of a leash. For what it can do, far too often the Epic provided something that could recharge faster, and carry soft control.

 

Plant was also the first primary I ran into where trying to pair it fairly with a secondary was a bit of a struggle.  For Accuracy, I build and plan around the idea of facing against +4 content, but sometimes it has to be realized that once a character gets to their Alpha, most of the game is going to be hard-locked at +3 to them going forward. Incarnate content still has the potential of marginalizing above, but that's often going to come with a team where almost always one person has some kind of +Acc/ToHit balancing ability. So when I looked at trying to get Accuracy to balance +4, I knew I had to settle with the idea that +3 was more the reality of things.

 

I even went out and did general survivability testing with Plant/Dark to try out Carrion Creepers against spawns that'd survive a bit longer under their effects. Going around at ~90% (to +4), even when I swung at the 54's in the RWZ I wasn't struggling by any stretch. I looked at Recharge correction once I'd settled Accuracy was probably sufficient, and Agility even comes with some endurance modification potential, but it was mostly only shaving 1-2 relevant seconds off a couple of powers. Of course it made a lot of low-recharge stuff get a hairline fracture faster, but that's the lowest part of the concern-totem.

 

I decided the best way to test performance was to slot Agility and Intuition Alpha's to see which one came out the cleanest at the end of it. As we have in evidence with the Plant/Dark video, Agility wasn't too shabby and I walked away from a Pylon run with a pretty respectable number, especially for a Controller. Without changing anything but the Alpha, I went back again and saw a pretty quick decline by 20-30/s depending on how the run went. I recorded a couple, but didn't see the point in stamping out a new video that was marginally different than the last one just because it was a hair faster. The simplest thing was that, even with the sacrifice of rolling against marginal recharge losses, Intuition still did more in curving build damage. For Plant/Dark/Leviathan, it's also really important to talk about the fact that the build was sporting several of its own pets, each of which is impacted by the Alpha choice as well.

 

I think Alpha choice for the Controller builds that are tighter, will be entirely a dealer's-choice kind of thing. The builds got very rocky when trying to cram things into them. The way I'm looking at it, however, is more in perspective of the way with Defenders: maximizing the efficiency of the build. In the case of Plant, throwing Ageless at it to fix recharge shortages, and Intuition to round out its damage ended up being a consistent choice.

 

Dark Control

I didn't go full-blown bonus testing with Dark Control because I already had one live, and experienced procs with it. The biggest thing I can say is that the set has a lot of options, and I've not run into any one thing that didn't work exactly as it might be intended. That set doesn't seem to have any notable flaws, and definitely shows that it was designed in a way that more compliments Proc options than struggles to figure them out. I'll have a couple of builds (Dark/Time and Dark/Dark) I'll post as well.

 

General Topic Update

That ultimately puts me at the end of the road trip for Controllers. With all the primary testing put out of the way, I'll update the main thread topic with a more coherent notification of what was covered, and a primary list of builds to add into the main post.

 

If there were any questions that didn't get answered on something particular, let me know. I've been under the weather for the last few days so trying to keep a focused thought pattern on closing out Controller testing has been a struggle. Foul virus going around in the community and it has taken a toll on me. I feel like I might not have been as comprehensive as I thought I should be so...

 

24 hours, I'll have the primary thread/topic post updated

Any advice on proc-ing for Troller ice/rad? I'm not after a miracle, but a minor revelation would be great!

[Coyote]

6 hours ago, Arctyc said:

Any advice on proc-ing for Troller ice/rad? I'm not after a miracle, but a minor revelation would be great!

 

Damage procs in the single-target Hold.

Energy Font ATO in the AoE Immob (and good End Reduction in it so you can spam it).

You can also put a lot of Damage procs in Choking Cloud and turn it into a mild PBAoE damage aura, but it is pretty expensive in terms of End cost... running that with Arctic Air will mean that you have to be very careful with End management and slot heavily for End reduction.

[Bopper]

7 minutes ago, 5099y_74c05 said:

Does anyone know if there is an order in which procs are checked? If so what dictates the order?

Can you elaborate on what you mean by order? There is a little something I was working on last week with summoned pseudopets but I went away on vacation. I'm back now and hope to test it further. Glue Arrow is one of the things I'm testing 

[Bopper]

43 minutes ago, 5099y_74c05 said:

Yes. So a power is slotted with procs A, B, and C in that slot order. What order are the procs checked in? Really I am more interested in what order are their effects applied? One example where order may matter, if you have a -RES proc, you would want this proc to fire first before the damage procs go off.

 

I can test that out, but I don't think it matters. 

[Frosticus]

2 minutes ago, Bopper said:

I can test that out, but I don't think it matters. 

It would matter in the sense he means. Basically if the -res resolved first then the subsequent damage procs would benefit.

 

I'm fairly confident they do not however because of the way the -res procs work to prevent multi-source stacking. the -res procs are actually pretty slow to apply if watching via power analyzer is any indication. 

[Bopper]

1 minute ago, Frosticus said:

It would matter in the sense he means. Basically if the -res resolved first then the subsequent damage procs would benefit.

 

I'm fairly confident they do not however because of the way the -res procs work to prevent multi-source stacking. the -res procs are actually pretty slow to apply if watching via power analyzer is any indication. 

Ahhh, I realize my statement was ambiguous. I meant I didn't think it mattered because I think they are resolved together (same time), thus I don't think the procs get a damage boost from a -res proc going off at the same time.

 

Again, I'll take a look. If I see the procs doing more damage based on how I slot a -res proc, I'll report it.

[Frosticus]

35 minutes ago, Bopper said:

Ahhh, I realize my statement was ambiguous. I meant I didn't think it mattered because I think they are resolved together (same time), thus I don't think the procs get a damage boost from a -res proc going off at the same time.

 

Again, I'll take a look. If I see the procs doing more damage based on how I slot a -res proc, I'll report it.

no you are right they are all applied at the same time, or in such a narrow window it doesnt matter. The log will say as much. I think we are saying the same thing there. 

 

What I'm additionally saying is that the -res effect takes a bit longer to actually apply due to the proc causing  the target to then cast the power on itself. 

 

If the power analyzer is any indication it can take considerable time after the proc, like a full second to actually lower the resistance of the target. 

 

But I'm seriously playing on a potato right now so ymmv.

[Redlynne]

5 hours ago, Bopper said:

Glue Arrow is one of the things I'm testing

Glue Arrow might be one of the powers that offers a key to understanding how psuedo-pet "rain" powers work (including Caltrops, etc.).

 

The thought that occurred to me today (while shuffling off to my Day Job) was that it would make sense for "rain" styled powers to use the "standard" Toggle/Auto (and psuedo-pets?) formula:

 

PPM * Activation Period / (60 * (0.25 + 0.75 * (1 + Radius * (11 * Arc + 540) / 30,000))) = Proc Chance

*Note* For Single Target use Radius = 0 and Arc = 0.

*Note* For Sphere, Arc = 360. Use the Radius and Arc values provided in the Info panel of your Build Planner.

 

... but then use a different Activation Period (than once per 10s)... and also REMOVE the minimum proc chance floor limiter.  Specifically, you use the ACTUAL Activation period of the "rain" styled power, so if it's "doing its thing" once per second you use an Activation Period of 1s for the formula.

 

Net result ... statistically speaking ... you wind up with a less biased PPM performance where the minimum proc chance gets "artificially lifted" via the minimum proc chance rule combined with the Chuck Lots Of Dice!! method of increasing the proc chances even more than they ought to be.  The outcome would be a highly (psuedorandomized) leveling of the proc chance(s) such that it would become VERY unlikely to proc on any one given activation tick, but ought to proc at least a time (or few) during the duration of the "rain" power in an extremely random way.

 

Just to plug in numbers for this idea, so test if I'm even in the ballpark with this notion, if I look at Ice Storm in the Controller epic pool of Ice Mastery I can glean the following info just from the Hero Planner application.

Activation Period: 0.2s

Duration: 15s

Radius: 25ft

Arc: 360

 

So if I toss in 3.5 PPM like Positron's Blast into the formula, I get this answer out of it:

 

3.5 * 0.2 / (60 * (0.25 + 0.75 * (1 + 25 * (11 * 360 + 540) / 30,000))) = 0.306010928962% chance to proc

 

So far, so good(?) ... since the basic formula is returning an answer that basically amounts to "this is damn unlikely to proc on any given activation tick" which matches observed behavior for "rain" styled powers.

 

Then if I take that answer and run it through the Chuck Lots Of Dice!! formula for computing the chance of ONE proc out of a given number of attempts, I get this for 75 chances to proc in 15 sec:

 

1 - (1 - 0.00306)⁷⁵ = 20.535% chance to proc at least once during 15s duration per $Target being hit by all 75 activations

 

... and you know what ... even without testing, that starts "feeling" about right for the performance that people report when putting damage procs into "rain" style powers like Ice Storm and Fire Storm and the like.

 

Bottom line, I'm thinking that for "rain" type powers the formula that you've uncovered is probably in use ... but some of the "assumptions" around it are altered (by removing the limiter on the lower end "floor" of the proc chances) in order to make them "work" in the edge case conditions offered by "rain" type powers.

 

If true, this is something that could be proven out by testing ... and that testing would help determine if powers that don't necessarily "look like" they're a "rain" styled power might actually wind up functioning (under the game mechanical hood) as of they were "rain" styled powers (like Glue Arrow?) so as to keep applying a debuff effect repeatedly over time to create a persistent zone of denial, much like how Caltrops and the "rain" powers do.  After that, it's a matter of determining what proc effects "apply" out of those pseudo-pet casters ... and which don't/won't for whatever reason is buried deep in the code.

 

 

 

Or I could be wrong (again) ...

[Sir Myshkin]

12 minutes ago, Redlynne said:

If true, this is something that could be proven out by testing ... and that testing would help determine if powers that don't necessarily "look like" they're a "rain" styled power might actually wind up functioning (under the game mechanical hood) as of they were "rain" styled powers (like Glue Arrow?) so as to keep applying a debuff effect repeatedly over time to create a persistent zone of denial, much like how Caltrops and the "rain" powers do.  After that, it's a matter of determining what proc effects "apply" out of those pseudo-pet casters ... and which don't/won't for whatever reason is buried deep in the code.

Caltrops isn't in that category as it actually does function, and I have gotten it to trigger both damage procs and the -Res proc within a reasonable amount that it's worth slotting them into the power.

 

Something that is off about the scenario you're describing is the difference between activation and follow-through after the fact on the Rain effects, they're not only incredibly limited in their probability, there's an ulterior denial going on that I've mentioned and Bopper is going to follow up on more closely with some of their other tests. I've never seen a damage proc go off for a Rain effect, but I have seen a -Res effect trigger three separate times over what amounts to 30+ minutes of testing between multiple abilities, and every single time the effect came up, it was immediately shutdown (removed) within the second it hit. This makes me feel like there's more going on there than just simply a heavily skewed probability formula.

 

If I had a lot more time on my hands and the open code in front of me, I could probably find it and be more specific to the effect, but that's not a really a headache I personally want to endeavor in.

5 hours ago, Bopper said:

Ahhh, I realize my statement was ambiguous. I meant I didn't think it mattered because I think they are resolved together (same time), thus I don't think the procs get a damage boost from a -res proc going off at the same time.

It doesn't look like they do, I went to double check for myself. The Proc itself will show up on the target nearly instantly, but the game doesn't report damage until after the animation time, so it's calculating everything the moment it occurs, and then posting the display of that information after the fact.

 

I took a sample:

Spoiler

You blast Rikti Pylon with your Poisonous Ray for 23.92 points of energy damage and reduces his defense and damage resistance.
The Poisonous Ray continues to deal 2.38 points of Toxic damage to Rikti Pylon.
Your Poisonous Ray blasts Rikti Pylon for 47.86 points of negative energy damage!
You reduce your targets damage resistance temporarily
You hit Rikti Pylon for 57.39 points of bonus Lethal damage!
You hit Rikti Pylon for 57.39 points of bonus Toxic damage!
The Poisonous Ray continues to deal 3.31 points of Toxic damage to Rikti Pylon.
The Poisonous Ray continues to deal 3.31 points of Toxic damage to Rikti Pylon.
The Poisonous Ray continues to deal 3.31 points of Toxic damage to Rikti Pylon.
The Poisonous Ray continues to deal 3.31 points of Toxic damage to Rikti Pylon.
The Poisonous Ray continues to deal 3.31 points of Toxic damage to Rikti Pylon.
The Poisonous Ray continues to deal 3.31 points of Toxic damage to Rikti Pylon.
The Poisonous Ray continues to deal 3.31 points of Toxic damage to Rikti Pylon.
The Poisonous Ray continues to deal 3.31 points of Toxic damage to Rikti Pylon.
Poisonous Ray is recharged.
You activated the Poisonous Ray power.
The Poisonous Ray continues to deal 3.31 points of Toxic damage to Rikti Pylon.
You blast Rikti Pylon with your Poisonous Ray for 28.41 points of energy damage and reduces his defense and damage resistance.
The Poisonous Ray continues to deal 2.83 points of Toxic damage to Rikti Pylon.
Your Poisonous Ray blasts Rikti Pylon for 56.83 points of negative energy damage!
You reduce your targets damage resistance temporarily
You hit Rikti Pylon for 68.15 points of bonus Lethal damage!
You hit Rikti Pylon for 68.15 points of bonus Toxic damage!
Your Degenerative Interface poisons Rikti Pylon for 10.16 points of toxic damage!
The Poisonous Ray continues to deal 3.31 points of Toxic damage to Rikti Pylon.
Your Degenerative Interface poisons Rikti Pylon for 11.88 points of toxic damage!
The Poisonous Ray continues to deal 3.31 points of Toxic damage to Rikti Pylon.
The Poisonous Ray continues to deal 3.31 points of Toxic damage to Rikti Pylon.
The Poisonous Ray continues to deal 3.31 points of Toxic damage to Rikti Pylon.
The Poisonous Ray continues to deal 3.31 points of Toxic damage to Rikti Pylon.
The Poisonous Ray continues to deal 3.31 points of Toxic damage to Rikti Pylon.
The Poisonous Ray continues to deal 3.31 points of Toxic damage to Rikti Pylon.
The Poisonous Ray continues to deal 3.31 points of Toxic damage to Rikti Pylon.
The Poisonous Ray continues to deal 3.31 points of Toxic damage to Rikti Pylon.
Poisonous Ray is recharged.

Every additional attack after is consistently the same as that later block of damage where the Poisonous Ray's -Res and the Achilles -Res are active on the Pylon, but not active (upon first firing) in the former block. I've also tried rearranging the order of procs in the power itself and that doesn't have any practical impact either, everything always seems to post the same. Status on You, status on the Target, then Damage.

 

[Redlynne]

1 hour ago, Sir Myshkin said:

The Proc itself will show up on the target nearly instantly, but the game doesn't report damage until after the animation time, so it's calculating everything the moment it occurs, and then posting the display of that information after the fact.

Resolve first ... animate after.

This is actually why grenades in City of Heroes are "homing grenades" if you're moving when they come your way.  You've already been "hit" ... you just haven't gotten the memo yet.  Same deal must be going on with the proc situation here, which would mean that everything is at least working "consistently" according to be game's rules.

[Sir Myshkin]

Main post has been updated to reflect the conclusion of primary testing for Controllers. Updated builds (plus a few unseen) have been rolled into the update as well. Linked to specific testing posts (didn't do that last time, feel like that made it harder for latecomers to dig out information). Onward to Tankers!

 

21 hours ago, Arctyc said:

Any advice on proc-ing for Troller ice/rad? I'm not after a miracle, but a minor revelation would be great!

There are a couple of avenues you can take, I put together a general "Here's all your basic options" build with the procs dropped in and basically nothing else. Something to keep an eye on with this kind of build, a few of those powers are probably not a wise choice (Choking Cloud and Glacier). Generally speaking toggles and onesie-twosie procs aren't a safe investment compared to 3+, so not sure you'll find a long-term success adding your proc options to a power like Radiation Infection given how often it's likely to pop in and out as things die. Choking Cloud is definitely a "mileage varies" as it doesn't have inherent damage, and that chance to proc will only happen on things every 10/s so long as they're in the field when it checks. Given that Arctic Air can be slotted similar, might be worth tandem, but you're talking about burning a metric ton of endurance. Accelerated Metabolism isn't going to make that much easier either. Maybe if you stacked Support Hybrid for the endurance reduction globally, but still.

 

Spoiler

Hero Plan by Hero Hero Designer 2.23
https://github.com/ImaginaryDevelopment/imaginary-hero-designer

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Level 49 Magic Controller
Primary Power Set: Ice Control
Secondary Power Set: Radiation Emission
Power Pool: Leadership
Power Pool: Fighting

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Chilblain -- Empty(A), Empty(3), Apc-Dam%(3), GldJvl-Dam%(5), ImpSwf-Dam%(5), TraoftheH-Dam%(7)
Level 1: Radiant Aura -- Prv-Heal(A), Prv-Heal/EndRdx(43), Prv-EndRdx/Rchg(43), Prv-Heal/Rchg(43), Prv-Heal/Rchg/EndRdx(45), Prv-Absorb%(45)
Level 2: Block of Ice -- Empty(A), ImpSwf-Dam%(7), NrnSht-Dam%(9), GhsWdwEmb-Dam%(9), UnbCns-Dam%(11), GldNet-Dam%(11)
Level 4: Frostbite -- Empty(A), Empty(13), Ann-ResDeb%(13), PstBls-Dam%(15), ImpSwf-Dam%(15), TraoftheH-Dam%(17)
Level 6: Arctic Air -- MlsIll-Dam%(A), Ccp-Dam%(17), ImpSwf-Dam%(19), MlsIll-EndRdx/Conf(19), EndRdx-I(21)
Level 8: Maneuvers -- Empty(A)
Level 10: Kick -- Empty(A)
Level 12: Ice Slick -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 14: Tactics -- GssSynFr--ToHit/EndRdx(A), AdjTrg-ToHit/EndRdx(31)
Level 16: Accelerate Metabolism -- Empty(A), Empty(37), Empty(37), Empty(39)
Level 18: Radiation Infection -- AchHee-ResDeb%(A), TchofLadG-%Dam(21), EndRdx-I(23), EndRdx-I(23)
Level 20: Flash Freeze -- PstBls-Dam%(A), SprWiloft-Rchg/Dmg%(39), SprWiloft-Acc/Conf/Hold/Immob/Sleep/Stun/Fear/EndRdx/Rchg(39), SprWiloft-Conf/Hold/Immob/Sleep/Stun/Fear/Rchg(40), SprWiloft-EndRdx/Rchg(40), SprWiloft-Acc/Conf/Hold/Immob/Sleep/Stun/Fear/EndRdx(40)
Level 22: Enervating Field -- EndRdx-I(A), EndRdx-I(25)
Level 24: Lingering Radiation -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(25), Acc-I(27)
Level 26: Glacier -- GldNet-Dam%(A), GhsWdwEmb-Dam%(27), NrnSht-Dam%(29), SprEnt-Rchg/AbsorbProc(29), ImpSwf-Dam%(31), GhsWdwEmb-Acc/Rchg(31)
Level 28: Choking Cloud -- GldNet-Dam%(A), GhsWdwEmb-Dam%(34), NrnSht-Dam%(36), Lck-%Hold(36), GhsWdwEmb-Acc/EndRdx(36), EndRdx-I(37)
Level 30: Tough -- Empty(A)
Level 32: Jack Frost -- Empty(A), Empty(33), Empty(33), Empty(33), Empty(34), Empty(34)
Level 35: Weave -- Empty(A)
Level 38: EM Pulse -- Empty(A)
Level 41: [Empty]
Level 44: [Empty]
Level 47: [Empty]
Level 49: [Empty]
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Containment
Level 1: Prestige Power Dash -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Slide -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Quick -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Rush -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Surge -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run
Level 2: Swift -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Health -- Pnc-Heal/+End(A), NmnCnv-Regen/Rcvry+(42), Mrc-Rcvry+(42)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- PrfShf-EndMod(A), PrfShf-End%(42)
------------

 

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		|-------------------------------------------------------------------|

 

 

9 minutes ago, Redlynne said:

You've already been "hit" ... you just haven't gotten the memo yet.

Made me think of this scene from Monty Python and the Holy Grail.

 

"I'm not dead yet!"

"He says he's not dead."

"He will be shortly. Can you come back around again?"

[Redlynne]

8 hours ago, Sir Myshkin said:

Main post has been updated to reflect the conclusion of primary testing for Controllers.

*/Trick Arrow seems to have been dropped entirely from the OP.

[Sir Myshkin]

12 hours ago, Redlynne said:

*/Trick Arrow seems to have been dropped entirely from the OP.

Other than a mention of the secondary, I didn't do any Controller related testing on Trick Arrow, nor put together any builds related to TA for Controllers. The mention of the set is still within the original post, and I didn't remove anything, only added at the end. Was there something else you were looking for there?

[Coyote]

4 hours ago, 5099y_74c05 said:

Based on Mids, if the same sets are able to be slotted in game, I would consider Flash Freeze as a candidate for proccing as well. Its one of the few Sleeps, if not the only one, that takes targeted AoE damage sets.

 

That was a great idea, right up until today's patch notes hit 😉

Flash Freeze now accepts Targeted AoE sets rather than PBAoE.

[Coyote]

8 hours ago, 5099y_74c05 said:

I'm not tracking what you are getting at @Coyote. Patch notes say: Controller > Ice Control > Flash Freeze: should be properly flagged as a Targeted AoE, not a Point Blank AoE.

I recommend Target AoE below:

 

Sorry, I thought you were talking about PBAoEs, which was how they were flagged before, and which would make it a candidate for a mini-nuke. As Targeted AoE, Flash Freeze isn't as good a nuke option as with PBAoEs, so I misread it because I was thinking of it as a nuke with the PBAoE sets.

[Jumpman]

It's possible that this is due to I24 differences as I mainly play on Rebirth, but I feel that Seeds loaded with damage is being undersold here.  I have slotted with 3 damage procs plus contagious (and a couple of acc/end) and that power is the absolute superstar of the build, even moreso than creepers.

[subbacultchas]

I'm going to take some of these suggestions to redo my Plant/Dark/Stone controller tonight, and I'll post the build when I can. I think the research yall did I can incorporate, at least the portions that were agreed upon as having merit. It will probably be a little different than Sir Myshkins build a couple pages back, but that build was to test the functionality of as much procs as possible, and some didn't work out. Plus, I cannot cannot CANNOT have Soul Absorption single slotted, the bonuses from it when frankenslotted for heal/end/recharge are too essential. But I think I can really get a pretty big return from some of the work done on this.

I've kept up with the rest of the posts too. My main proc slottings will be Carrion Creepers, Roots, the ST hold, Water Spout, and redoing all of my pets as well. Is there anything obvious that I've missed?

Edited August 30, 2019 by subbacultchas

[Zep]

I am curious to see your analysis of Fire/Storm.

 

Lot of viable builds that focus on different aspects of control and/or damage.

 

Lots of places to stick procs.

 

Got a drop for -25% recovery proc the other day on my Fire/Kin and realized I could stick it in Smoke - a nice two-fer one.

 

Hurricane can take a bunch - I seem top recall going proc heavy with it on live with my Storm Defender.