Proc Monsters - Tanker Edition

[Shaman Coyote]

No problem and thanks for your input.

 

With 4 seconds on one, 8 seconds on another and 10 seconds on her last attack (no FF in the last one yet), she shouldn't be getting procs very often and should have gaps in her attack chain (which I was filling with Throwing Knives and Brawl) but her Gash (the 10 second one) is coming up by the time I've done the other two (under 3 seconds) and the short one (4 seconds) is recharging in less than 2. It's insane. Mind you, I love it but I am having to figure out how to get enough recovery to cover it all when before I slotted the FFs she had a huge surplus of endurance. If there's one problem I'm super happy to have, it's this one. Level for level, she moves faster and is much tougher than any brute (or scrapper for that matter) I've ever played.

 

And I almost skipped the "ProcMonster" topic altogether because "it doesn't sound feasible".

 

@Sir Myshkin, you are a hero!

[jojogladco]

1 hour ago, Shaman Coyote said:

No problem and thanks for your input.

 

With 4 seconds on one, 8 seconds on another and 10 seconds on her last attack (no FF in the last one yet), she shouldn't be getting procs very often and should have gaps in her attack chain (which I was filling with Throwing Knives and Brawl) but her Gash (the 10 second one) is coming up by the time I've done the other two (under 3 seconds) and the short one (4 seconds) is recharging in less than 2. It's insane. Mind you, I love it but I am having to figure out how to get enough recovery to cover it all when before I slotted the FFs she had a huge surplus of endurance. If there's one problem I'm super happy to have, it's this one. Level for level, she moves faster and is much tougher than any brute (or scrapper for that matter) I've ever played.

 

And I almost skipped the "ProcMonster" topic altogether because "it doesn't sound feasible".

 

@Sir Myshkin, you are a hero!

You can use Boppers tools from his Signature to check your PPM rates. With a 4 second and 8 second single target attack you'd expect FF to fire just under 18% of the time on the 4 second attack and just over 31% on the 8 second attack. So about 24.5% of the time between the two of them. At low level before you have the +end IO's slotted a lucky streak where you proc two cycles in a row can really bottom out your blue bar quickly.

[Shaman Coyote]

15 minutes ago, jojogladco said:

You can use Boppers tools from his Signature to check your PPM rates. With a 4 second and 8 second single target attack you'd expect FF to fire just under 18% of the time on the 4 second attack and just over 31% on the 8 second attack. So about 24.5% of the time between the two of them. At low level before you have the +end IO's slotted a lucky streak where you proc two cycles in a row can really bottom out your blue bar quickly.

That is way more often than I expected and pretty close to what I'm seeing so it all makes sense now. Thanks!

 

And wow am I loving this toon. I'll have to toss some end reds as well as more +recovery stuff. Once I get a FF in Gash it'll be nuts. I thought I was going to have to have FFs in all her attacks to see numbers like this.

 

Thanks for your help, jojo.

 

Coyote

[Golden Azrael]

I've looked at Sir's build for the proc EN Invul.  Interesting on the attacks.

 

Currently L43 on the 'revised' EM with my Invul tank.

 

Any new build ideas for the updated EM?  Eg. Power Crash?  Force Feedback proc on eg. Total Focus?

 

Currently at 15% def before Invincibility kicks in.  And resists at 80%+.

 

Azrael.

[tidge]

With the Issue 27 change to EM going live, I took advantage of the necessary respec to add some %damage procs to my build.

 

I did not respec into the new cone attack Power Crash. I personally didn't want more AoE on this build, and since I had long ago surrendered Stun, this was a straightforward choice. I won't fault anyone who works it into their build, especially for %damage procs.

 

Previous to i27, I was running Energy Transfer with (5xHecatomb with %Fire, 1x Touch of Death %Negative) and Total Focus with (4xMako's Bite w/ %Lethal, 1xPerfect Zinger %Psi, 1x Touch of Death %Negative), with the change in power tiers, I simply swapped this slotting between the two powers.

 

The big change I made that didn't really need to wait for i27 was in Whirling Hands; that I waited until now may draw some head shakes, but anyway...

 

Previously, I had this simply slotted as 5x Armageddon. My thinking was to get the global Accuracy and Recharge bonuses, but other power choices cover Accuracy and the extra Recharge is really only an issue for corner cases where I need to juggle Dull Pain and Hasten (The latter power is one that I really only 'need' for content where I want perma-Dull Pain). As part of the respec, I found an extra slot and I went with:

1. HO Nucleolus (Acc/Dam)
2. Eradication %Energy
3. Perfect Zinger % Psi
4. Scirocco %Lethal
5. Obliteration %Smashing
6. Armageddon %Fire

I typically don't go proc-crazy, but with the increased area for Tanker AoE I felt like this wasn't a bad choice. I'm open to discussions/suggestions on my choices. I made the choice to not put a -Res piece in Whirling Hands... intellectually I realize that a -Resistance debuff is like getting a +Damage buff, but with "resistance resisting resistible resist debuffs" I'm not convinced that adding -Res to an AoE (on an Invuln tank) is really going to help speed things up unless I specifically pay attention (with the single-target attacks) to bosses within groups of enemies.

[DSorrow]

20 hours ago, tidge said:

As part of the respec, I found an extra slot and I went with:

I'm not at a PC with Mids' installed currently, but do procs yield more damage than a straight Damage IO or the Damage IO from Armageddon? I'm pretty sure at least the latter will add more damage, so I'd probably replace the Scirocco proc with either a +5 Obliteration: Damage or +5 Armageddon: Damage, depending on the combination of set bonus / Damage enhancement you prefer.

 

20 hours ago, tidge said:

I made the choice to not put a -Res piece in Whirling Hands

I wouldn't bother either. In an attack like that, I think it's better to do an extra 70 now rather than an extra 70 on your next Whirling Hands. Although, sometimes you'll get the -Res on the boss, which will help your ST, but it's not like EM needs help in that department.

[tidge]

On 11/28/2020 at 6:52 AM, DSorrow said:

I'm not at a PC with Mids' installed currently, but do procs yield more damage than a straight Damage IO or the Damage IO from Armageddon? I'm pretty sure at least the latter will add more damage, so I'd probably replace the Scirocco proc with either a +5 Obliteration: Damage or +5 Armageddon: Damage, depending on the combination of set bonus / Damage enhancement you prefer.

I only have Pines' installed. A Level 50 IO is showing the damage as just hitting the Enhancement Diversification limit (because of the Acc/Dam Hami-O) and a non-boosted damage IO is showing 4-5 fewer points of damage in the 'power graph'. (I know that the old Pines doesn't have all the HC Tanker updates, but I'm not sure if the increased number of targets affects that graph for the Whirling Hand melee power)

 

EDIT: I see that Whirling Hands also got a damage scale increase (~18%), so adding Damage (via a dedicated IO) almost certainly will be an improvement over a fifth %damage proc.

 

I'll add this: I know it is not everyone's cuppa, but my Invuln/EM build includes Build Up 6-slotted with the Gaussian's set. I include this here only because (without Hasten) it's available every 38 seconds or so as a damage boost; with Hasten it's on an approximate 30-second availability.

 

If I were going to replace any of the %damage pieces, it would probably be the Obliteration, as that only works down to level 27, and I do join a lot of lower-level content.

Edited November 29, 2020 by tidge

[jojogladco]

On 11/28/2020 at 5:52 AM, DSorrow said:

I'm not at a PC with Mids' installed currently, but do procs yield more damage than a straight Damage IO or the Damage IO from Armageddon? I'm pretty sure at least the latter will add more damage, so I'd probably replace the Scirocco proc with either a +5 Obliteration: Damage or +5 Armageddon: Damage, depending on the combination of set bonus / Damage enhancement you prefer.

 

I wouldn't bother either. In an attack like that, I think it's better to do an extra 70 now rather than an extra 70 on your next Whirling Hands. Although, sometimes you'll get the -Res on the boss, which will help your ST, but it's not like EM needs help in that department.

Tidge's slotting with no other bonus will yield 276.4 damage. Your adjustment changes that to 245 damage for a +5 Arma Damage IO, slightly less with a Oblit swapped in. If you assume Musculature Core because we're going proc focused then you get 304 vs 265.  

 

Now personally I have the Arma Proc tied up in Crosspunch as part of my ST chain, so I choose to trade some damage out of Whirling Hands and get a pile of mitigation by placing the Overwhelming Force Damage/Chance for KD there ending up with 251 vs 265 compared to having the Arma Damage IO. 

[Obus Form]

Really intriguing stuff here! 

 

Would any of the Tanker vets mind giving my build a look over?  It's a Dark Armour/SS.  Aimed for capped S/L/E/Ne/Psi, with as much proccing as possible and using rage on CD.  Thank you in advance 😃

 

Hero Plan by Mids' Reborn : Hero Designer 2.6.1.25
https://github.com/Crytilis/mids-reborn-hero-designer

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Level 50 Natural Tanker
Primary Power Set: Dark Armor
Secondary Power Set: Super Strength
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Leadership
Ancillary Pool: Energy Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Death Shroud -- SprMghoft-Rchg/Res%(A), SprMghoft-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(5), SprMghoft-Dmg/Rchg(11), SprMghoft-Acc/Dmg(25)
Level 1: Jab -- TchofDth-Dam%(A), TchofDth-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(15), Mk'Bit-Dam%(15)
Level 2: Punch -- TchofDth-Dam%(A), TchofDth-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(43), Mk'Bit-Dam%(46), Mk'Bit-Acc/Dmg(46), GldStr-%Dam(46), GldStr-Acc/Dmg(48)
Level 4: Super Speed -- BlsoftheZ-ResKB(A)
Level 6: Dark Embrace -- UnbGrd-ResDam(A), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx(7), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(7)
Level 8: Murky Cloud -- UnbGrd-ResDam(A), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx(9), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(9), StdPrt-ResDam/Def+(11)
Level 10: Obsidian Shield -- UnbGrd-ResDam(A), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx(13), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(13)
Level 12: Combat Jumping -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), BlsoftheZ-ResKB(19)
Level 14: Haymaker -- TchofDth-Dam%(A), TchofDth-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(23), Hct-Dam%(23), Hct-Dmg/EndRdx(25), GldStr-%Dam(43), GldStr-Acc/Dmg(43)
Level 16: Kick -- Empty(A)
Level 18: Tough -- UnbGrd-Max HP%(A), UnbGrd-ResDam(17), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx(17)
Level 20: Cross Punch -- ScrDrv-Dam%(A), ScrDrv-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(34), ScrDrv-Acc/Dmg(34), Obl-%Dam(19), Obl-Dmg(21), Mlt-Acc/EndRdx(21)
Level 22: Cloak of Darkness -- Rct-ResDam%(A), Rct-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(31), Rct-Def/Rchg(31), Rct-EndRdx/Rchg(36), Rct-Def/EndRdx(36), Rct-Def(36)
Level 24: Knockout Blow -- SprGntFis-Rchg/+Absorb(A), SprGntFis-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(31), SprGntFis-Acc/Dmg(33), TchofDth-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(33), TchofDth-Dam%(33), UnbCns-Dam%(34)
Level 26: Dark Regeneration -- SprGntFis-Dmg/Rchg(A), SprGntFis-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(27), SprGntFis-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(27), Prv-Heal/EndRdx(37), Prv-Heal(37), Prv-EndRdx/Rchg(37)
Level 28: Rage -- AdjTrg-Rchg(A), AdjTrg-EndRdx/Rchg(29), AdjTrg-ToHit/Rchg(29)
Level 30: Weave -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), ShlWal-Def/Rchg(40), ShlWal-Def(42), ShlWal-Def/EndRdx(42), ShlWal-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(42)
Level 32: Maneuvers -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), ShlWal-ResDam/Re TP(48), ShlWal-Def(48), ShlWal-Def/EndRdx(50), ShlWal-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(50)
Level 35: Conserve Power -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 38: Foot Stomp -- FrcFdb-Rechg%(A), Arm-Dam%(39), Arm-Dmg/EndRdx(39), Arm-Acc/Rchg(39), Arm-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(40), Arm-Dmg/Rchg(40)
Level 41: Physical Perfection -- PrfShf-End%(A)
Level 44: Tactics -- AdjTrg-ToHit/EndRdx/Rchg(A), AdjTrg-EndRdx/Rchg(45), AdjTrg-ToHit/EndRdx(45), Empty(45)
Level 47: Taunt -- PrfZng-Taunt/Rchg/Rng(A)
Level 49: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(50)
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Gauntlet
Level 1: Prestige Power Dash -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Slide -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Quick -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Rush -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Surge -- Spr-EndRdx(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run
Level 2: Swift -- Run-I(A)
Level 2: Health -- Pnc-Heal/+End(A), NmnCnv-Regen/Rcvry+(3), Mrc-Rcvry+(5)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- PrfShf-End%(A), PrfShf-EndMod(3)
Level 0: Freedom Phalanx Reserve
Level 0: Portal Jockey
Level 0: The Atlas Medallion
Level 0: Vanguard Medal
Level 50: Musculature Radial Paragon
------------

 

 

[Sir Myshkin]

On 11/28/2020 at 5:52 AM, DSorrow said:

but do procs yield more damage than a straight Damage IO or the Damage IO from Armageddon?

On a 1 for 1 exchange, no they do not. At a minimum grabbing a purple Dam IO and +5 it, but I advise using the first two slots of any attack to buff Acc/Dam into reasonable levels. Ideally between a combination of enhancement and Musculature you can hit 95% on any given attack (as a minimum). If you've managed to get into the 80-90% range, an additional +Dam at that point is unlikely to continue adding more damage than a proc could, but remember that Procs are potential damage whereas enhancement is guaranteed damage; if the amount an enhancement would add is at least 50% what a proc might add then I'd consider the Dam over the proc, especially in an AoE of any form.

On 11/28/2020 at 8:29 AM, tidge said:

I only have Pines' installed.

If you haven't updated into a version of the Builder that includes the Homecoming updates to Tanker damage, then the values you're seeing for Tankers is considerably off and I would not trust any of the numbers you're seeing. There's also tweaks across many powers that you would be missing that isn't just damage values.

 

On 11/29/2020 at 2:19 PM, Obus Form said:

Would any of the Tanker vets mind giving my build a look over

Nothing really jumps out as egregious, you've got enough accuracy across the board, you've balanced your proc to enhancement ratio well enough. One bit I could suggest is just doing a revision of slot placement for certain sets. Unbreakable Guard gives 3.13% Melee at four pieces, and you're using three pieces of that set in four different powers which means you could potentially gain 12.5% Melee, and with Maneuvers providing a slight bit more to Tankers in-game than Mids reports, you'd be pretty close to 40% there. You have two slots in Jab, cannibalize those for sure because the power isn't worth using (I know you're stuck with it, but you don't/shouldn't have any need to use it).

[Obus Form]

1 hour ago, Sir Myshkin said:

Nothingeally jumps out as egregious, you've got enough accuracy across the board, you've balanced your proc to enhancement ratio well enough. One bit I could suggest is just doing a revision of slot placement for certain sets. Unbreakable Guard gives 3.13% Melee at four pieces, and you're using three pieces of that set in four different powers which means you could potentially gain 12.5% Melee, and with Maneuvers providing a slight bit more to Tankers in-game than Mids reports, you'd be pretty close to 40% there. You have two slots in Jab, cannibalize those for sure because the power isn't worth using (I know you're stuck with it, but you don't/shouldn't have any need to use it).

Appreciate the feedback.  Yeah unsure what to do with jab lol.

 

I actually was trying to forgo defense completely since I'm capped at resistance.  I only did 3 slots and not 4 for unbreakable was because I didnt want to go for defense at all   I understand it's odd that I took maneuvers and fully slotted the Cloak of Darkness, which was to really get set bonus and reduce end cost of it since it's a nice perk to stealth sometimes.

 

I took maneuvers and weave simply as a LOTG and 4 piece mule to get the energy resist to cap energy resists, my understanding being that capped resistance + dark armours heal would make me unkillable when tanking.

[Sir Myshkin]

4 hours ago, Obus Form said:

I actually was trying to forgo defense completely since I'm capped at resistance.  I only did 3 slots and not 4 for unbreakable was because I didnt want to go for defense at all   I understand it's odd that I took maneuvers and fully slotted the Cloak of Darkness, which was to really get set bonus and reduce end cost of it since it's a nice perk to stealth sometimes.

 

I took maneuvers and weave simply as a LOTG and 4 piece mule to get the energy resist to cap energy resists, my understanding being that capped resistance + dark armours heal would make me unkillable when tanking.

After a certain point you've gone from "not wanting" to "full dive" in that build. What I can tell you straight up is that you are not capped to resists. You have high resists sure, and the +Res Tanker Proc is pushing your E/N/Psi to 90% with one stack, but the rest of your stats aren't there. While some folks attest to its usefulness I personally don't choose to rely on the +Res proc to manage resistance gaps on a Tanker build because it doesn't cover Alpha, and in most cases that's the biggest area where having those capped resists matter the most. If you're going fresh into a spawn and not carrying over a +Res proc, you're going in 10% under and that can be a big enough difference in some content.

 

Dark Armor is a strong setup, Dark Regen is a massive heal, but there is a world of difference between 70 and 90, and still yet between 80 and 90.

 

It is doable to reach 90% to pretty much every stat without the aid of the +Res proc, Energy and Toxic being the two difficult ones (and Toxic isn't even a consideration, Energy would just barely be off). If you really are wanting to be "Unkillable" then getting that baseline of S/L/Melee 40% (minimum, ideally 45%, but that's a bit harder to pull off) defense, and get as many of your Resistances within the 85-90% range before the proc (ideally get to 90% without it) so it can otherwise cap you with one activation.

 

Some other things I didn't really think too deeply about on first look: You don't need Tactics. Rage can easily be double stacked and provides a hefty +ToHit on each application, and Cloak of Darkness gives +Perception.

 

Spoiler

Hero Plan by Mids' Reborn : Hero Designer 2.6.0.7
https://github.com/ImaginaryDevelopment/imaginary-hero-designer

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Level 50 Natural Tanker
Primary Power Set: Dark Armor
Secondary Power Set: Super Strength
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Leadership
Ancillary Pool: Energy Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Death Shroud -- ScrDrv-Acc/Dmg(A), ScrDrv-Dmg/EndRdx(5), ScrDrv-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(11)
Level 1: Jab -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Punch -- SprGntFis-Dmg/Rchg(A), SprGntFis-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(43), SprGntFis-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(46), TchofDth-Dam%(46), GldStr-%Dam(46), Mk'Bit-Dam%(48)
Level 4: Super Speed -- BlsoftheZ-ResKB(A)
Level 6: Dark Embrace -- UnbGrd-ResDam(A), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx(7), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(7), UnbGrd-Rchg/ResDam(15)
Level 8: Murky Cloud -- UnbGrd-ResDam(A), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx(9), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(9), UnbGrd-Rchg/ResDam(11), UnbGrd-EndRdx/Rchg(25), UnbGrd-Max HP%(37)
Level 10: Obsidian Shield -- StdPrt-ResDam/Def+(A), GldArm-3defTpProc(13), GldArm-ResDam(13), GldArm-End/Res(15)
Level 12: Combat Jumping -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), BlsoftheZ-ResKB(19)
Level 14: Haymaker -- SprMghoft-Acc/Dmg(A), SprMghoft-Dmg/Rchg(17), SprMghoft-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(17), SprMghoft-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(23), SprMghoft-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(23), SprMghoft-Rchg/Res%(43)
Level 16: Kick -- Empty(A)
Level 18: Tough -- UnbGrd-ResDam(A), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx(19), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(25), UnbGrd-Rchg/ResDam(36)
Level 20: Cross Punch -- SprAvl-Acc/Dmg(A), SprAvl-Dmg/EndRdx(34), SprAvl-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(34), SprAvl-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(21), SprAvl-Rchg/KDProc(21), FrcFdb-Rechg%(43)
Level 22: Cloak of Darkness -- ShlWal-Def/EndRdx(A), ShlWal-Def(31), ShlWal-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(31), ShlWal-Def/Rchg(36), Rct-ResDam%(36)
Level 24: Knockout Blow -- Hct-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(A), Hct-Dmg/EndRdx(31), Hct-Dam%(33), GldNet-Dam%(33), UnbCns-Dam%(33), FrcFdb-Rechg%(34)
Level 26: Dark Regeneration -- SprGntFis-Acc/Dmg(A), SprGntFis-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(27), SprGntFis-Rchg/+Absorb(27), Prv-Heal(37), Prv-Heal/EndRdx(37)
Level 28: Rage -- GssSynFr--ToHit(A), GssSynFr--ToHit/Rchg(29), GssSynFr--ToHit/Rchg/EndRdx(29), GssSynFr--Rchg/EndRdx(45), GssSynFr--ToHit/EndRdx(45), GssSynFr--Build%(45)
Level 30: Weave -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), ShlWal-Def/Rchg(40), ShlWal-Def(42), ShlWal-Def/EndRdx(42), ShlWal-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(42)
Level 32: Maneuvers -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), ShlWal-ResDam/Re TP(48), ShlWal-Def(48), ShlWal-Def/EndRdx(50), ShlWal-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(50)
Level 35: Conserve Power -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 38: Foot Stomp -- FrcFdb-Rechg%(A), Arm-Dam%(39), Arm-Dmg/EndRdx(39), Arm-Acc/Rchg(39), Arm-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(40), Arm-Dmg/Rchg(40)
Level 41: Physical Perfection -- PrfShf-End%(A)
Level 44: Oppressive Gloom -- Acc-I(A)
Level 47: Taunt -- PrfZng-Taunt/Rchg/Rng(A)
Level 49: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(50)
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Gauntlet
Level 1: Prestige Power Dash -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Slide -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Quick -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Rush -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Surge -- Spr-EndRdx(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run
Level 2: Swift -- Run-I(A)
Level 2: Health -- Pnc-Heal/+End(A), NmnCnv-Regen/Rcvry+(3), Mrc-Rcvry+(5)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- PrfShf-End%(A), PrfShf-EndMod(3)
Level 0: Freedom Phalanx Reserve
Level 0: Portal Jockey
Level 0: The Atlas Medallion
Level 0: Vanguard Medal
Level 50: Musculature Radial Paragon
------------

 

| Copy & Paste this data into Mids' Reborn : Hero Designer to view the build |
		|-------------------------------------------------------------------|
		|MxDz;1516;720;1440;HEX;|
		|78DA6594C94F13511CC7DF4CA79696221464DF37292D4C19E4E216636449114C138|
		|C37D38CF06C1B6A69A645C59B89B8249EBC78714DDC0F5E1535FE19EE7F801E5C12|
		|F753FDF5FDBE4063279D7E7EF37BBF7DDEBCD9D3E3FEC75367F709CD7F206DE772F|
		|1C37666513A9E43767ED9B1D3A27879E86E667D7C5C1E97999C34C76D6731BEDF39|
		|B1E4B4626556A6A534E796B324CFE51D9949E4938168262949CC9BEB822FB6B4943|
		|6E7B2522EF8953823ED6C2A93A8520F93A944324F4FD5EB4B0BD2C92553D9BA896C|
		|6ADE9CC84827B1129FB57379E9AC34515521BA9F78E94F2BD659D0C54982E511C62|
		|9A6EF0C73C8277015E8479718F6C14914DCDAAA415686089D670E5F04E3B43C400C|
		|BAD473645128F6D2405C88E6FAA02BDD53AAC2CD55B8DC3FD87ECB4FF00F73EB6FE|
		|61AD97AD8D6ED816D056C2B60EB836DD32F66DF5FE633F2F5228FB791847643F847|
		|79CD1F411E8BD9407556B2AD5659AF295D2DEA35A9FF2AF45FF5CAA5A654F31A7CC|
		|36C780BBE6386DE33758A5B8DFEABD5345DA409A0AA003AAA45474DE8A8171D5DEE|
		|17A20E99EBAE192A62F775F00673DB2DF03633B4AA2BBEA0EEEB398F513FC9D5744|
		|C835166EF14F89D6951A78DC8D718E4EE3B42CCAE3038C1B57545F9B97B95F99CF2|
		|35AB7D52309ACFF1AE68B9005E62F67DC41BFAC41CA57CAD9AF271B7DEE1386D77C|
		|17BCCA1FBE003F021D3A039B6A3BF76BCB181298E3B380D4E825166807C3AE1D309|
		|9FC841EC58F858F0B1E07393D08337D813E65D3D4675F7634EFDE87FFB5E700FB89|
		|B39B00BDCC97C445B29C83588E055D6BDA4D9859123DCC2392294C384CECCB25D0F|
		|D53F825D3A825A2CB0CDF8FFBB1D3436BEF642A86C75A44C639569769469C636631|
		|68B509967CAAC62C6C6892134A5F1D66C9C0385CFC5F30431B461AEFEEBA64ED7BA|
		|79F2FA118E6F4C6BEA6CF952EA1764BF6F9B3A4DC334F52BCC984F55A4721E2D918|
		|F95C8F325F20C7D6A16E6F50FA5BEFC9A|
		|-------------------------------------------------------------------|

 

[Yomo Kimyata]

I've been sitting on this for a long time, but I have to ask you all about DNA Siphon from Bio Armor.  I haven't seen this mentioned yet in this thread after a cursory search, and the slotting I've seen in the builds here are mostly healing oriented.

 

On every melee Bio character I have (and I have a lot), I slot it as what I consider the perfect PBAoE bomb:

 

Theft of Essence +end proc

Fury of the Gladiator -res proc

3-4 damage procs (take your pick)

maybe wild card, usually something with accuracy.

 

If the spreadsheet is accurate, then a 3.5 PPM proc will go off 90% of the time even with close to 90% recharge (90 second base recharge, 20' radius, 1.67 sec activation time).  This jibes well with my experience in play.

 

My bio builds are very recharge based.  Every 30 seconds or so (assuming I'm in a pack of bad/good guys), DNA Siphon fills both my green and blue bars, debuffs enemy resistance, and triggers many damage procs.

 

Why don't I see other builds like this on the forums?  I haven't looked all that hard, admittedly.  I simply cannot be the only one doing this.  Am I doing something wrong, or is it so deliciously right?

 

For reference, I 6-slot Ablative Carapace with Preventative Medicine, and 6-slot Parasitic Aura with 5 pieces of Panacea and the Theft of Essence proc.   

 

 

Edited January 30, 2021 by Yomo Kimyata

[Pzn]

I've seen several builds with damage procs in DNA siphon posted.  There's often a better place to run fury proc in my primary set.  It's only useful as an opener since it will hit dead targets.  I prefer rad's 2 proc bomb powers instead.

 

Edited January 30, 2021 by josh1622

[jojogladco]

On 1/29/2021 at 8:23 PM, Yomo Kimyata said:

I've been sitting on this for a long time, but I have to ask you all about DNA Siphon from Bio Armor.  I haven't seen this mentioned yet in this thread after a cursory search, and the slotting I've seen in the builds here are mostly healing oriented.

 

On every melee Bio character I have (and I have a lot), I slot it as what I consider the perfect PBAoE bomb:

 

Theft of Essence +end proc

Fury of the Gladiator -res proc

3-4 damage procs (take your pick)

maybe wild card, usually something with accuracy.

 

If the spreadsheet is accurate, then a 3.5 PPM proc will go off 90% of the time even with close to 90% recharge (90 second base recharge, 20' radius, 1.67 sec activation time).  This jibes well with my experience in play.

 

My bio builds are very recharge based.  Every 30 seconds or so (assuming I'm in a pack of bad/good guys), DNA Siphon fills both my green and blue bars, debuffs enemy resistance, and triggers many damage procs.

 

Why don't I see other builds like this on the forums?  I haven't looked all that hard, admittedly.  I simply cannot be the only one doing this.  Am I doing something wrong, or is it so deliciously right?

 

For reference, I 6-slot Ablative Carapace with Preventative Medicine, and 6-slot Parasitic Aura with 5 pieces of Panacea and the Theft of Essence proc.   

 

 

My play experience is that Bio is too squishy for me to get away with procing the heal. I can run +4/8 radios with the Heal proced but I can't manage a solo ITF with that setup. The caveat would be that I never team, I'm sure on a team with support you can run with this slotting no problem. 

[tidge]

On 1/30/2021 at 8:15 AM, josh1622 said:

I've seen several builds with damage procs in DNA siphon posted.  There's often a better place to run fury proc in my primary set.  It's only useful as an opener since it will hit dead targets.  I prefer rad's 2 proc bomb powers instead.

Here is how I have it slotted on my Stalker (my only /Bio character), other %procs like Armageddon's %Fire is elsewhere in the build. I didn't go with %-Res on the Stalker, YMMV for a Tanker. Similarly, if you have Endurance issues, adding the %+End piece is a no-brainer... but Bio has other means to mitigate that issue.

 

DNA Siphon

• (A) Touch of the Nictus - Accuracy/Endurance/Recharge: Level 50
• (39) Touch of the Nictus - Accuracy/Healing: Level 50
• (40) Touch of the Nictus - Chance for Negative Energy Damage: Level 50
• (40) Eradication - Chance for Energy Damage: Level 30
• (40) Obliteration - Chance for Smashing Damage: Level 50
• (42) Scirocco's Dervish - Chance of Damage(Lethal): Level 50

 

The HP set bonuses from Touch of the Nictus are certainly better for Tankers than for Stalkers. IIRC, I have the (non %proc) Touch of the Nictus pieces boosted.

 

When I was choosing to use and slot this power, I was happiest with having extra PBAoE damage as well as the set's Accuracy bonus, and I think I have the total recharge 'just so' to maximize %proc chances and have power ready to reapply a -Regen when its effects would expire.

 

EDIT: I should add something that may be obvious: On Stalkers, Bio is a secondary set, and the available level range for it starts higher than it does as a primary set. This may have some effect om the choice of certain %procs.

Edited February 16, 2021 by tidge

[Yomo Kimyata]

On 2/4/2021 at 11:54 AM, jojogladco said:

My play experience is that Bio is too squishy for me to get away with procing the heal. I can run +4/8 radios with the Heal proced but I can't manage a solo ITF with that setup. The caveat would be that I never team, I'm sure on a team with support you can run with this slotting no problem. 

Huh, I find that a little surprising.  My experience with solo ITFs is that I assume I'm going to get defense cascade failure at some point, so I max out s/l resist and try to avoid zerging into enemies with both def debuff and res debuff.  For me, having two heals up every 30 seconds plus an optional oh shit button from incarnates works just fine as long as I know what I'm getting into.  And as people in General (I think that's in Iowa!) say, the best defense is a good offense, especially if your defense is deep in the negatives.

[jojogladco]

1 hour ago, Yomo Kimyata said:

Huh, I find that a little surprising.  My experience with solo ITFs is that I assume I'm going to get defense cascade failure at some point, so I max out s/l resist and try to avoid zerging into enemies with both def debuff and res debuff.  For me, having two heals up every 30 seconds plus an optional oh shit button from incarnates works just fine as long as I know what I'm getting into.  And as people in General (I think that's in Iowa!) say, the best defense is a good offense, especially if your defense is deep in the negatives.

I'm glad to hear that you've had a better time of it than I. I found the Bio blank provided toward the start of the thread gets shredded by the Rommy+Nictus fight without heavy Insp usage at +4/8. I'm sure the set can be built to be much sturdier but that, at least in my experience, entails slotting the heal as a heal and not as a proc bomb. At lower difficulty levels or in more skilled hands than mine slotting the heal as a proc bomb works wonderfully. 

 

 

[Yomo Kimyata]

13 hours ago, jojogladco said:

 gets shredded by the Rommy+Nictus fight 

 

 

That is absolutely the fly in the ointment.

[Sovera]

@Sir Myshkin, and maybe @Bopper. My apologies for the casual ringing, but after testing Elec Melee on a Tanker (and finding it... actually, decent?) I have tried to inform myself on Chain Induction but what information is sparse or back from Live, or I get results from Elec Affinity and the epic pools.

 

- I read there was a bug that proccing Chain Induction lowered the jumping chances. Tried proccing and it -seemed- to jump around fine.

- Read that the Chain Induction from Elec Melee is a pseudo pet and the leaping carries no proc chances. A bit of mild testing kinda seems to lend credence to this as the procs only seemed to happen twice at best. I need a better methodology, like only one proc in the power and fewer enemies.

- I also read that if the mob dies from Chain Induction there will be no leaps. I -think- I saw it leap from a dead mob, but I will have to find a better way to test this. Perhaps against grey mobs.

[Coyote]

4 hours ago, Sovera said:

- Read that the Chain Induction from Elec Melee is a pseudo pet and the leaping carries no proc chances. A bit of mild testing kinda seems to lend credence to this as the procs only seemed to happen twice at best. I need a better methodology, like only one proc in the power and fewer enemies.

- I also read that if the mob dies from Chain Induction there will be no leaps. I -think- I saw it leap from a dead mob, but I will have to find a better way to test this. Perhaps against grey mobs.

 

Leaping should carry procs over, but the first attack is a single-target attack with a Recharge of 14, and the jumps are treated as 10' AoEs with a Recharge of 10, so the chances for procs to happen on jumps will be a lot lower than on the primary target. Although, slotting Recharge into the power won't lower the proc chances for the jumps.

 

The jumps are supposed to be coming from a summoned entity, not from the mob hit, so I don't think it should be affected by mobs dying... I know my Jolting Chain, which uses a similar mechanism, has gone around and killed 2-3 targets at the end of a fight, so that one at least will continue past a dead mob.

[carroto]

6 hours ago, Sovera said:

Read that the Chain Induction from Elec Melee is a pseudo pet and the leaping carries no proc chances.

This was discussed a bit up-thread.  You can see some specific numbers to back up @Coyote's reply.

[siran]

I'm just doing a little bit of thread necromancy

 

@Sir Myshkin I remember reading that you had a 'radiation armor/dark melee' tank that turned out to be a good proc monster. I had a look through this thread but couldn't find it.

 

Did it work out, and do you have a build? Thanks in advance 🙂 

 

I've been playing with Rad/Dark Melee and having a surprising amount of fun. I've turned off double xp and just slowly leveling through the mid 30s at the moment. That's way before the proc monster is going to kick in (not a lot of spare slots in the mid 30s), so I am quite looking forwards to that

[Gobbledygook]

Spoiler

Arise, Oh Powerful Proc-Monster!!!

 

 

 

Ok, so I necroed (naked crow?) this thread for a reason.

 

Maybe not a good reason, but anyway:

 

I noticed that there are a couple of SD/SS builds in here, but as someone who hasn't really kept up with the tank changes and such, (Yes, I read the thread. The whole thing. Except Kinetic Melee, just don't like the visuals of that set.), I was wondering if they were still up to date, and if you were going to build one from scratch, and play from 1-50 without farming, and keeping options open for exemping, how would you guys do so?

Edited April 6, 2023 by Gobbledygook

[Spaghetti Betty]

1 minute ago, Gobbledygook said:

if you were going to build one from scratch, and play from 1-50 without farming, and keeping options open for exemping, how would you guys do so?

The same way I progress all of my proc happy melee toons. Grab Amps, slot armors, only slot attacks enough to put in ATOs and the procs (at the lowest lvl they're available. Proc dmg scales by your lvl, not the IO lvl) I want and go from there. Accuracy isn't necessarily an issue unless you start bumping to +3 or +4 and you'll get damage modifier from Rage to boot.

 

For Shield/SS you'll definitely want Recovery Serum and some blues handy.