Greycat

At most, a rum and coke or bit of whiskey, and that's rare. I don't get drunk (I mean, I probably would if I drank enough, but I don't find drinking enough for that to be fun or entertaining, so I don't do it.)

See, that's the thing I'm *still* not seeing an explanation for - how is turning this on "fostering community?" Or in the OP's words, "getting SGs to talk?" Absolutely everything presented as a "we can do this with it" is something we can do *now* without it. What about turning Prestige back on magically makes SGs able or willing do things they can do right now, but apparently some are not? I mean, sure, technically saying "hey guys, turn on prestige/SG mode" is taling "more" since it's a sentence that wouldn't be said otherwise... (Well, if I'm being technical, not "everything." "We can turn on prestige, then earn badges for prestige" can't be done right now, but that's fairly... self-referential, I suppose.) At its heart, my main reason for arguing against this is turning on a system that (a) does nothing, but (b) has frequently encouraged negative behaviour in the past and (c) - while it's likely a *very* tiny risk, may have unforseen interactions with the code we have now. (No, I haven't mentioned C in the past, and I don't think it's a real worry, but the game *has* changed and we don't know if the system is just off or actually excised from the code.) All for... what? Letting someone have a number they can point to? So, again - what's the positive? How is this enabling anything that can't be done *right now* with existing systems and currencies? Or is this just "I want a big public number to show off?" If it's the last, the people who want it should just say that.

Get the antivirus installed and updated with no help from tech support.

... my brain insisted it was different shorthand for "Rise of the Phoenix" and wondered how they were dying so much - even intentionally - to have this as a rotation. I had to click and look. 🙂

You're reading a lot of things that don't exist. There's no anger here. You just apparently do not get that you've given no good reason for turning this on. You deciding to deflect doesn't change that, and frankly only convinces me further that you have no good argument. Everything you claim you want or need Prestige on to do, you can do now. You don't need prestige to do it. (Other than, of course, making your prestige amount bigger.) Here, let's start with one of your reasons. Why do you need prestige on for your SGs to talk? Why can't you just talk to the people in them now?

If that's all you are getting from anything I'm saying, you're not reading. As I said in response to your prior post, the things you listed for "and prestige can do this!" can be done *now,* without prestige being turned on. And *are* being done now, without prestige being turned on. And with no explanation or argument of just how prestige enables those things in any additional way. The same is true for your original post. There's zero rationale for just how Prestige enables anything you listed or makes it easier. What you list for reasons for it in your OP, and restate again later: See who plays in SG mode? Why? To earn Prestige. Why earn Prestige? Because... you... get a bigger number that does nothing. Plus, *as I listed before but you apparently chose to ignore,* many activities that actively benefit the SG would do *zilch* for generating prestige. Rewards for contests for the SG? You can do that now without (re)introducing another currency. SGs do that now. I've participated in them. Got some inf, got some super packs. That sort of thing. "Make SGs talk internally." SGs do that now. If yours isn't, you can do that without Prestige. Just ... start talking. And a vague "make SGs matter more." Again - you can do this for your SG without Prestige. When prestige was available on live, it had *zero* impact on which SGs "mattered." Hell, "mattering" is pretty subjective, not objective, and some number in the SG listing isn't going to make a whit of difference. It doesn't show how active an SG is - one member could churn all of it. It doesn't show how involved the SG is on the server, or how it treats its members, or how often it plays or anything else. Oh, yeah, and "It can have badges tied to it" mentioned by others. So... yay, if you have a badger, you can have a few more? That's the closest thing to a positive, and at best it's a neutral argument. None of that is "I don't want it." It's all "There's zero point to reenabling it, and reenabling it can, has, and given that history likely will cause conflict."

I think the spiderlings *might* be a little weak as a T1, but there are other options to look through anyway. And things can be tweaked, in any case. Other than that, yes, MMs are hard to create primaries for, but I don't think anyone would mind more options!

Here's the thing. You don't need prestige to do any of that. That's the *point.* SG doesn't talk? Start talking while they're on. Get people talking. No prestige needed. (You wouldn't earn prestige for typing in chat - or starting a discord channel or whatever and talking there - anyway.) Have meetings? Say "Hey, guys, let's be more than a group sharing a base. How about every Thursday afternoon for the next few weeks we run a different TF?" No prestige needed to start doing that. And no pressure if someone can't join and isn't making that number bigger. "Make the ranking system mean something?" It didn't really before when we did have prestige. But again, you can do that *now,* as limited and kind of pointless as the ranking system is. Heck, why *would* you want to tie prestige to it? See my previous example in the other post. One person does nothing for the SG, but farms 'til they have 2b prestige. The other builds AEs, builds bases, helps out in chat, works on builds, organizes events, etc... all things that generate zero prestige. Which should have any sort of recognition in the SG? How much impact would that number really have? Make the game more fun? Find out what people like. Do costume contests. (again, not something that would generate prestige.) Have level 1 multi-zone races, or "run the rails." Have a PVP event. Have a level 1 PVP event. The only thing limiting you is your imagination and willingness to do something - not the existence or lack of a farmable number. So far, there's just no good argument for bringing it back.

Everlasting's my primary server. That said, focusing on the above - why do you assume I die on a TF? I can play the same TF ten times, with ten different teams, same settings, and have the experience range from "never dying" to "seven team wipes in a row" depending on who's playing. Builds are only a part of that, after all. And frankly I'd find the second experience more interesting, finding out why and trying to fix or work around it (barring some odd gameplay bug, like, say, all Council Vampyri suddenly spawn as AV-level Nosferatu or something, and every spawn has three of them at least.) Honestly, using ITF is ... meh, as a measure. It's almost guaranteed, unless you specifically recruit not to, that you'll have a couple of Incarnates (if not a full or near full team of them,) and it pretty much trivializes the run. Which, sure, can be fun on occasion, but... That whole "I never die" thing is also *part* of why I don't do builds. I find it *freaking boring* to basically have no risk. It's why I want the old Quantums back with their unresistable Nictus damage for Khelds, the old Cysts, etc. And yeah, I have characters that can do +4x8... but I don't because I tend to find *that* boring. "Minions down, let me punch these two bosses for a while... next group... " (on top of the just-plain-silliness of having a full city's worth of people wandering around in a lab or office or cave to beat up. I know it's a game, and that that gives the XP for a full team, but ... eh.) I've been a standard part of the "not dying" thing. I was in a SG where we'd run at max level... and it was basically myself and the SG leader going nuke-nuke-judgement-judgement-nuke, while the others were soloing spawns as well. It's amusing, sure... for a short while. Neither of us were tanks, but... there just wasn't much there. Even trying ot keep up with the story on AEs, it still got rushed through because it was just that hard to challenge that group. (Which also got *me,* as one of the main people writing the AEs, to come up with things like time manipulation using groups... as in *everything* had it. Have them try to figure out what to do with their recharge - even IO-boosted recharge - floored.) (Part of the other reason I don't do builds, at least copying other peoples' builds, is that I end up not playing the character... since it feels like I'm playing someone else's character. I have no connection to them. It's just numbers that produce other numbers then, and if I wanted that, I'd open up Excel. But that's neither here nor there.) Got off track there a bit. Regardless, even without "builds" (and don't get me wrong - as I alluded to before, I do use IOs. I tend to throw things in organically, "that looks interesting" or "that looks helpful" as I level) death is still... fairly infrequent, especially as I get higher up in levels.

No you aren't, and no you don't! :) This can ... already happen now? And what's more, players have more control over who they give INF to and when. *And* can give it to non-SG players, too. ... which basically... does nothing, so why enable the system (and the potential for some people to start in with "you're not doing anything for the SG, look at the prestige numbers!" arguments, even if they do mean nothing and there's no loss.) Even ignoring that, say you have two members of an SG. One is on for several hours a day. He farms, maybe, for his own build and INF. Or just solos, Doesn't really do anything much with the SG but show up for an hour a week and BSes with them. Has Prestige on, so while he's only with the SG an hour a week, with the rest of the time he plays he's the highest prestige earner in the group, has all the Prestige badges, etc. The other is on a few hours a week, base builds and tweaks (which doesn't earn Prestige,) builds and tests AEs so the SG has a good, new, relevant arc to run every other week to once a month, crafts commons and other IOs for general use, tosses extra salvage in the bin, but rarely if ever has Prestige on. Even if he *does* remember to turn it on, none of the things he does earns Prestige - there's no real way to have it affect Prestige earnings, after all. Which one's doing more for the SG? Which one shows more "prestige," and how does that relate at all to the SG? This was one of the issues with the Prestige system even from the start. It didn't reflect anything except itself. Not how good a SG was, not how much a player contributed (aside from that number) to the SG itself. And yet it caused problems. "I earn X much prestige, I deserve to be promoted/leader/whatever else," even if there was no real contribution to the SG as a whole. Or even "you owe me." Prestige is something best left dead and buried. Just want new badges? "Distance traveled using Walk" is more interesting.

All I can say is that I 100% disagree with the premise you're starting with. Can IO builds make a difference? Sure. But I play quite a bit of support. I don't do "builds." And I haven't had survivability problems, or support problems. I'll be on commons late into a character's life - and, of course, played back when we didn't *have* IO sets and the game was a bit rougher. What it *sounds* like, to me (and I may be wrong on it, but I've run into it enough that this is sounding familiar) is that you might be concentrating too much on one side of the character. "I'm a bubbler" or "I'm Kinetic" or (shudder) "I'm a healer," that last one being the worst because of concepts hauled in from other games that just aren't needed here ("Focus on healing, let the DPS do the damage, if you're doing anything but healing you're doing it wrong" - and in some other games that's certainly needed... but not *here.*) A more *balanced* character can do a lot more *without* having to focus on just one side or the other. Granted, it's easier with some sets - FF throws out bubbles with two clicks on the team every four minutes, for instance, and hangs close enough for dispersion bubble to help the squishies who are probably a bit away from the fight - than with others, but your blasts (which for most sets are also debuffing) and / or controls are going to make a huge difference in team survivability as well. And sadly they're ignored by some percentage of support players in favor of "I need full leadership" or "Hasten+Medicine pool." They also, though, can give that survivability you're looking to new IO sets to add. For instance, defenders and corrupters... just out of *habit,* I tend to load their ST ranged up with thunderstrikes because I like the set and it's reasonably cheap. What does it end up giving as bonuses? Recovery (helpful on busier support sets,) and ranged and energy defense. You're not going to softcap that, but it's enough to be pretty useful.

Yeah, I'm confused as well. Those buffs were made AOE on *live,* so it shouldn't even be a different branch of the sunset-era code. All you have to do is visit Point du Hoc while a mothership raid is being set up, if there's any thermal, sonic, cold, kin or FF you'll see everyone buffed in just a click.

I ... honestly have to wonder what you're doing if your support is getting killed/mezzed that fast and that often. About the only time I see that is on MSRs during the bomb (and very beginning of bowl rush) phase, and even that's not always a mass of death. Maybe in PVP, but that's a vastly different environment with very specific needs. Plus... yeah, I'd have to agree, these would just be gobbled up by DPS. Most have some sort of self heal (or +regen) that would use the exact same sets, and probably more than one if you're throwing bonuses in that early. Other support types? +Def (FF, fortitude, etc.) and +res buffs would obviously be grabbed instantly, and even some you think might be "safe" to do this with (say, def debuff) can be taken - and probably would, for the min/maxers - in some attack sets.

... not really a fan. "More prestige" does not equal "better supergroup," yet people tried on live to make it seem that way, and getting rid of the "You must run in SG mode" dictators was a big plus for actually *enjoying* SGs. There are far more interesting ways to have SG contests and such than "go grind this." Personally, I'd rather have any and all references to prestige purged from the game. Yes, even in its current inactive state.

Chewing on it a bit (and I see a few echoes of thoughts in some other posts) - Go to patron pools... not 2.0. I'm not even sure it's a 1.5. Maybe a 1.3. Villainside - sure, add red widow. Or generic "Arachnos." Heroside - FBSA pools. The arcs themselves are themed. Not going to go into "what the powers are," since - well, lots of balancing and rebalancing would need to be done anyway. Grey - For those who don't want to swear fealty to a patron, or tie themselves to heroside city hall. Midnighters, perhaps put Arachnos here, Longbow, Hammers, NPs... or whichever other groups. Drop the unlock to 33 instead of 35. Why? It means you finish out your primary through T9, while getting the arc to unlock late enough you're not wondering why it's not available... while having it available at 35. And since Patrons are RP-flavorful - expand arcs on all of them. Do more jobs. Primarily for replay value. Also, a 2-mission "switch patron/organization" arc, for those who'd like to switch the badge/patron, given it's an expansion on preexisting content.

On Excelsior, *Everlasting. Lord knows why I put Excelsior, Krow typically does these every once in a while. It's fun. (Plus our dropship bounties on the MSR *never* stay at what they start at... we seem to always have people donating there. :D )

About the only reason to do it now (other than "I want to try a petless MM for challenge") is that it's the only way to get whips. (DP was the reason before that got turned into a blast set, after all.) Though... I mean, not taking the pets, I'd think you kind of *have* an END discount there. You don't need to buff or support them. Varies by secondary and pools, sure, but still, if you're not having to heal/bubble/buff your pets (on top of just not having to re/summon or upgrade them,) that's END you're not using.

Yeah, when I was doing more commissioning (back on live,) half the time I'd just go inside or in a base to get steady light. Between in-world buildings (stores, police stations... don't recall, is the AE "quiet room" affected by time-of-day lighting?) and bases, though, I think we sort of have control over this already. (Heck, I made a base specifically for costume contests to avoid "welp, day went to night halfway through and nobody can see the details of the costume." Not that anyone uses it to my knowledge...)

Which is kind of a tangent there, really - mostly annoying to some RPers. Sounds like the OP knows it already. Though, I suppose, the argument could be made "it's at least one thing red side has to draw people over to play, even if only for a little bit." (typically one mission, though.) Regardless - yeah, this has been suggested since live. Not really against it, though I don't know if heroside (flavor-wise) would have individual "patrons," per se. I could see them being linked to organizations, though. Hmm. We have MAGI, DATA, etc. already (though that puts us at one over, hero-side, and do we want them tied indirectly to origin like that?) Getting some "grey" pools wouldn't be bad, either - Midnighters, Vanguard, possibly the New Praetorians and Hammers? Granted, most would probably just be different crayons in the same lines, but "grey" pools would also give redsiders (and vig/rogue) a chance to pick something not tied to Arachnos, which would be worthwhile. Edit: Also, should probably be in Suggestions.

Heh. I used to do different things - take a FOTM combo (say, when Ice/Elec blasters were popular) and either reverse it (Elec/Cold... which was ...odd) or stick it onto a different AT (Fire/kin? Sure... I'll make it as a tank, though, not a troller.)

... tell the kids to go back outside and play so the price goes back up? :)

... which server are you on? On Everlasting I see requests for GM teams frequently, and GM hunt teams that go after multiples are ... probably a couple of times a week that I know of. And yes, anti-player Confuse does exist in game. (I believe one of the BAF mobs does, or did, this, as well as the Succubus from the COT, from memory.) I'm not sure I'd go for this as a GM - I don't honestly think there's enough in Cim to really have it fit - having more arcs in Cim going into gorgons (and perhaps other easily-reachable representations of myths) for something to do pre-Incarnate would be great. Edit: GIven Medusa's story in the Metamorphosis, specifically (might be monsterous, but not a monster - she's the victim of a curse from Minerva/Athena,) an arc that gives a choice of defeat or "free from the curse" might be interesting and a change of pace. (Especially if she's an AV....)

Yeah, respeccing needs a rework. There have been a *lot* of suggestions on ways to do it (even just "free un/redo of the last power/slots placed" seems popular.) "Respec any one power at any time" would probably be more techncially challenging (just because of things like pool dependencies for prior powers and the like,) but ... yeah. Respeccing needs a look.

The only thing I can really add is that,to me, the "pros and cons" part are ... pretty much irrelevant to the timer. Which somewhat reinforces Hedgefund's initial response. If a team's going to rush, I don't think it has anything to do with the timer - *everything* is faster these days. I last ran this with my SG (fair mix of characters, a couple like tweaking characters, a few - like me - don't bother) and it still was reasonably quick. We weren't *trying* for anything. Wasn't a 10 minute run, included some RP in the mix, nobody was bothered one way or another about a timer. And the pro point you bring up? Well... it's more a matter of the players than the timer. I love seeing the map, and yeah, wish there were reason to revisit it in a non-TF context, having reason to investigate giant bones, that sort of thing (also mentioned in one of the PI badges or plaques in the norther islands.) Some have seen it a bunch and just see it mostly as "a map" now and are going to get through it without payin gmuch attention... again, though, I don't think the timer or lack thereof enters into it.

... they have an armor secondary. With mez protection. Not sure why you think they'd need more or why... apparently turning mez protection into their inherent somehow would do anything. Hahahahhaha... no. WIth any change there'd be some spike of having more people play it to try them out, yes. But... *people like different play styles.* Sometimes even the *same* person. If I feel like playing support, I'm not playing a sentinel (or a blaster or a brute.) If I feel like getting in the mix in melee, I'm not playing a sentinel (or a controller, say.) I'm 100% against trying to tune things for (or against) anyone's play preferences. That should never be a consideration. Besides, who decides who the "true" any-sort-of-gamer is? Honestly, reading both of these, it sounds like you were told they were bad, read forums, looked at a spreadsheet to see how "bad" they were, but haven't really played them 1-50 (or even to a "significant" level, like, say, 35.) As for why sentinels are undertuned - which, yes, they are, but not to the point you seem to have assigned them - well, they were created by a small playerbase, not the live team, with a very small beta testing group. Starting too far down and buffing them up gradually was likely seen as more desirable than having them overpowered and having to dial things down (aka "nerf") them later. We *still* have a small dev team and small community compared to live. Things take time. Yes, more than two years. In the meantime, I for one find them enjoyable, they're fun for me to play, they fit certain concepts and I don't even mind the inherent.