Greycat

You've been misquoting and misinterpeting, deliberately, things that were said as well. Don't try to put yourself forward as being innocent there. In fact, *EVEN THIS QUOTE* is misrepresenting what *I* said. Which is to point out you're being toxic. Not "Don't defend your point of view" or "Don't defend yourself." You're also painting an *entire group of people* with a fairly wide brush there. It's not acceptable when we're talking about someone's race, gender or country of origin, it's not acceptable here talking about PVPers. Which, by the way, also includes PVE players, as the communities crossed over (and still do.) Stop while you're behind. I had expected better of you, after all.

You're being fairly toxic in here yourself, given the last few replies. Best stop yelling at the kettle.

I think there's a little cross-communication there. 1. No, the hardcore PVP community (as in, i am here primarily or only for PVP) was never huge in COH. 2. HOWEVER, the population seen in zones? While still not giant compared to what was going on in PVE, pre-i13, there would indeed be multiple teams worth of players in zone on a not-infrequent basis. Even on servers like Pinnacle and Victory, much less Freedom. After I13, with the "powers behave this way in PVE, this way in PVP," on top of the growing "need a PVP build" thanks to IOs, not only turned off a good portion of the PVP community but made the barrier to entry for PVE-but-might-want-to-try-it casual players higher.... to where the zones, at least, were pretty much dead and there wasn't much "hey, anyone want to try arena?" going on, either, outside of the (afterwards) miniscule PVP community's events. I don't think SA was saying "the PVP community was huge compared to the PVE community," but that it was many, many, MANY times greater than what it was - and that the people in there were a mix of ... let's say, more PVP-casual as well as the hardcore, versus just "primarily interested in PVP?" I would agree.

Ehhh, yes and no. It really depends. For some it's more the fact a Scrapper (for instance) can be wildly different from another Scrapper, as opposed to other games where you're just "fighter #12098734" with maybe an armor difference, or you haven't picked up the same sword at level 309 as everyone else yet, and a lot of the developments are more a distraction than anything else. Or even seen negatively (see the discussions - or arguments - over IOs, incarnates, perma-ing and capping everything, etc.) If the game were *modular,* I'm sure we'd see some interesting combinations - like SO-everything, but everything else is here, or pure COV where you also... I don't know, get Alpha at level 10, Interface at 20, Lore at 30, Destiny at 40 and Lore at 50 and just have to unlock Hybrid or something. But we don't have earlier versions of the code, so aside from some things being able to be enabled/disabled, we can't really have an "issue 3 server" - it'd be like taking the current mid-engine Corvette and saying "ok, I like some of this, but I wish I could make it a '63 split-window." Not really able to "just" be backdated...

A thought comes to mind - In all the various server spinups and spinoffs the last few years, *has* anyone created a "world PVP active" server? Whether it's actually lasted or not. Groups have played with all the *other* switches, after all... if there's serious interest, I'd have expected someone to have done this already (or documented the attempt and what did or didn't let them do it.)

... "A" level 50 wouldn't do that. Unlike other games, you don't (say) have "a" fighter type, or "a" rogue or what have you. You can stay in the *same AT* and spend months playing radically different characters. It's one of the things that was, and is, a strength of COH. As far as large gifts? It really depends on the person receiving. I mean, good size "gifts" get given away constantly - costume contests with several hundred million INF, for instance. We often have a "dropship bounty" over on Everlasting and I've seen *that* hit several hundred million INF from people just throwing it in the pot. (Usually ends up in the tens of mil to 100 mill range, if it grows.) Doesn't seem to hurt anyone. *shrug*

There's ... a lot, right now, that keeps people out of PVP (and kind of keeps getting worse about it.) Back when COV came up, I kind of loved zone PVP. I was on Pinnacle, mostly - not "the PVP server," by any means. Nor was Victory. Yet we could have multiple teams going at it and it was fun. Yes, people complained, as well. Stalkers were "unfair" and the like (no, they weren't.) There *were* some issues. But honestly, it was approachable and *fun.* Most "problems" could just be handled by having a team in zone. Then we got IOs, and it went from "approachable" to "spend time and money on a build." Then we had I13 and all the mess that came with *that,* which cratered the PVP population - which, as I recall, very much felt like their suggestions and viewpoints were very much *not* being listened to. *And* the changes made PVP - at least zone PVP - into having to learn a completely different environment. Haul a tank in there, for instance, and suddenly you're getting mezzed? Heal decay? Yes, it's been tweaked, but still... That population never really recovered. PVP was down to a tiny percent of people, and they (live) mostly congregated on Freedom just to *find* each other, as I recall. Hard to PVP without other Ps to V. The other thing, frankly, is COH culturally. Yes, PVP was planned since before release. The devs talk about it. It wasn't in game at launch, it only showed up in arenas - so PVP didn't really get to be part of its DNA. (Aside from the problems of balancing not just *ATs* but *powerset combos.* It's one thing when you have "fighter at level with gear," it's another when a "controller" can mean a hundred different things to face.) People complained when the Arenas launched because they didn't feel "Heroes fighting other heroes didn't feel right." You'd think COV would fix that, but ... no. COH had kind of decided it was cooperative, and PVP by its nature doesn't feel like it fits with that. Plus people felt very negatively against being "suckered into" zones (something I still disagree with, frankly, as there's nothing in a PVP zone needed for anything in the rest of the game, but that's a wholly different argument.) The only thing I agreed with there was moving the warzone contact outside the war zone for the people who wanted absolutely nothing to do with PVP, since it blocked getting other contacts at the time. But even "rewards" (badges, powers, etc.) don't bring people in to PVP. It doesn't make them want to PVP. It makes people who *don't* want to PVP cranky and just want to get things over with. If they're going for a PVP badge for (say) defeats? They'll find a quiet time, get with a friend and punch each other, then never come back. TLDR? Make a server an open-world PVP server and they might as well take away the population/server load indicator. It won't be needed. It'd be so dead it won't even spawn zombies in october. Or to put it another way, They would *definitely* be in a worse state if this were done.

Fruit Salad. You know. Chop things up, throw them together, mix it up, hope it works... Or is that more "slow cooker?" Regardless. There are a lot of discussions on ... interesting power combinations. Why not set - say - two weeks aside on beta to create "any primary/secondary mix, AT independent," a month to keep them for exploration and discussion - then, of course, wipe the characters, since they'd be invalid after that? Yes, with *plenty* of warnings of "no guarantees, this is not going live, these will be wiped." But still... Someone mentioned in the (latest) illusion for doms thread "why not just put it on on test and try it?" Well, why not theorycraft other things? Support/armor? Be silly and run a fire armor/rad armor Brute? Be extremely invulnerable (invuln/invuln tank) but be restricted to pool attacks? See what an assault MM (pets/melee set) would be like? Or a Mastershade... Do this, say, every 2-3 years (what, I have some faith in our longevity) just to chew through ideas. The ones that almost work could be a starting point for other dev work. (Granted, they have plenty to do....)

I wonder if that's the same one or an update of it... Yeah, that looks similar to what was on live, initially, as I recall... I think perhaps with a bit more functionality. Nice!

There was a parser ages ago on live. Then there was some change to the chat format (I think the date/time portion of it?) and that broke - and to my knowledge was never fixed. But the combat portions and such... yes. Those have been an issue. For a while, for one group, I took chat/combat logs and wrote them up, story-wise. That ... was a pain. I eventually stopped doing it - it was becoming another job, essentially. With the mentioned tags, even if someone doesn't write a *parser* per se, it does let you do some cleanup with (as I recall) word processor macros - "find this, do this action" (with the action being "go to the beginning of the line, select to the end, delete.")

I wouldn't argue with the idea, but it would still have to be selective on which NPCs allow it. Yes, I'm thinking in part of ambushes, but also thinking of one specific scenario involving "rescues" that this would basically break - namely, Warburg. Now, granted, there's not a *lot* of PVP there, or any other zone, these days for the most part, but they're both part of the goal and "reward" of fighting - steal them, lead them to the goal, get code fragment. Being able to save them, run off and just TP them would cheese this horribly. *That* said, I don't think the suggestion higher up of the sight range, teleport 30 yards or so, would hurt that. It'd help overall (and if you think stairs on normal rescues are bad... hoo boy. Stairs, ramp, PVP zone, staring at an NPC that's supposedly a highly trained scientist unable to figure out "up the ramp" is just an adventure in *fun.*) That, I think, would be a good compromise to help fix bad NPC pathfinding.

The trouble with the maples (And they're quite convinced they're right) They say the oaks are just too lofty and they grab up all the light. But the oaks can't help their feelings if they like the way they're made And they wonder why the maples can't be happy in their shade.

... which also comes in handy if you've been doing AE stuff for tickets as this has the exact breakdown described (arcane/tech, 3 level ranges, etc.)

No, no. Pine is in the lumberjack set.

I don't tend to hard or soft cap anything. At least not intentionally. And as far as builds... on quite a few support folks, I'll have two builds, depending on the powerset - team and solo - and slot and make other choices accordingly. If I'm doing that, I'll push the buff side (assuming it's a buffer) fairly far, so... In general I'd kind of agree with the whole "it depends." Personally, I don't assume anything about what people have - I've seen some fairly oddball things, after all. As far as the second question - or what I'm getting out of it - well, anything over that 45% I see more as a +level or debuff resisting cushion for them. I've never had anyone complain about having yet more defense, and with the buffs typically being AOE, it's not generally going to cost *you* more END, so... *shrug*

Eh. I just don't club-RP. If I'm going to one, whether it's Pocket D or one of the player created ones, I'm typically going there for some purpose for some set amount of time - I see someone on that I need to talk to and they're there, or it's a prearranged meeting going into something else, or maybe karaoke night (which... the one I know of tends to conflict with a SG night, so I miss going to those.) I'm not one (IC or IRL) typically to start conversations with someone I don't know. My characters (and I) don't tend to go somewhere to drink or flirt or whatever at the end of their day - if it's someone who drinks, that drinking will tend to be "at home" or somewhere with a very few people they know. *shrug* Only character I have that does any clubbing on a regular basis is Louisville Slaughter, and that's the "hit people with a baseball bat" variety, not the "dance, drink and be around people" sort.

... well, no. Doing that just brings out the 50+4, fully IO'd smartass in people like me to say some variation of "you can't make me." :)

No worries. It's been there and talked about pretty much since then, but never implemented. :)

Um... no, actually. If we look here: Specifically, you're missing this bit from *right above* that: So while that's the proposed system, it's not active.

Yeah. I'd call this somewhat problematic, in general. Plus, as someone who likes and uses knockback, I had to modify this to "player" knockback when I answered, as I'd honestly answer differently for players vs pets vs NPCs. Honestly, the most relevant data here is "How many people voted for each answer." And that doesn't even really show the total number of people interested in the poll, as people can vote for multiple answers, so it's not really worth much to know.

Given you started with me specifically, I'm taking all the "you"s as being me. So let me set a few things straight. 1. I'm being realistic given player feedback about redside since live. An effort like this shouldn't be made expecting a sudden, sustained redside explosion. You'll have a few more people, yes. And possibly - more likely - others who take their blueside characters grey so they can cross over on occasion. But you're not going to see - say - a steady 60/40 or so split, blue vs red. And just a one time thing on short notice... I'd be surprised if you saw much of a blip. 2. I play redside as well. Not as often, no. But I have dedicated red characters. Mostly because it fits the characters. I'm very much a *character* player, not a min/maxer, not a "go for the most rewards" sort. 3. Nowhere in there did I say it was a stupid idea, or I wouldn't have laid out an example roadmap to try to get more impact. Something more than one post that, if I might be blunt, is a very wishy-washy "hey, why don't people do this" sounding post. You want impact, make a solid plan, get people on board on more than one server and do the work. Events that *are* recurring or have been in the past took that. You want a lasting impact, a lasting redside boost, get ready to put the work in, including crafting something you can hand over when you're not around for someone else to pick up. Make it something people go to, and want to keep coming back to. I do however have to mention that I find it somewhat amusing that someone complaining about reading comprehension complains that people are calling this a stupid idea when *nowhere in any post made in response* has anybody said that. Said it's not for them, yes. Said to do things differently, yes. "This is a stupid idea?" Or "Not just not for me, but for anybody else?" Nothing that can even be remotely taken that way without some severe folding, spindling and mutilating.

Congrats. Little challenges like this are always fun. I did one of each AT to 50 on live, an done of each control set... if it had kept going, I'm sure I'd have more "one of..." sets.

.... interesting that you see responses that say flat out "tried it, didn't like it" as "taking you to task." Closest I see to what you describe is Ghost's reply with the "kicking and screaming" line, and even there they say "I tried it for a month and didn't like it." (And yes, alternating the WST to be strictly red/coop one week, blue/coop, would immediately have people complaining about being "forced" to play redside. Having the PVP warzone contact you used to have to see being just inside the warzone gate had people complaining loud and long about being "forced" to PVP, eventually getting them moved out of the zone, and that was a total of a few seconds and a click. People consider the oddest things to be 'forced.') There's nothing wrong with an event. But you have to understand there's a lot about redside people do *not* like - and while yes, people would probably give it a try ... you may end up with more of a backlash of "Ugh, I tried redside and don't like it" at the end. I don't think the end result would be much of a population boost. Possibly a few more people going Rogue or Vig to do both sides. As for why people don't like redside? That's been asked since - well, probably the single-digit issues on live. People don't like the environment, they don't like the "better written" storylines for various reasons, they don't like being beholden to Recluse or Arachnos or treated like a lackey (even if the original devs started trying non-lackey-izing dialog, like Mr. G - who still sounds like he's leading you along, IMHO.) Honestly, I figured AE would be a boon to redside because of one specific complaint - tied to the last line of that last paragraph. Heroes tend to be reactive - something happens, they prevent it, rescue it, fix it or throw it in jail. Villains tend to be *pro*active - they scheme, they plot, run heists, plots, etc. and there's just not much chance to *do* that (again, most of the writing makes you do someone else's bidding, you're hired muscle, etc.) outside of AE. Plus you can be your own type of villainy - from "redside antihero" to "I murder kittens and babies for fun." In the end? If you want to do this I'd say: 1. More lead time. Because you'll need the planning (and advertising) time. Last week of September to not interfere with halloween stuff, for instance. Still close, but it gives time. 2. Find out who does things redside on each server. Coordinate. Get backup people to run whatever you want to run, as well, because life happens. 3. Advertise. Here, yes (and not as a "what if we..." but "Hey, we're doing this!") and on each server board. 4. With #2 and #3, get in touch with the GMs both for help getting the word out (GMOTD, official messages it's coming out) and possibly for help with server events. ("Deathsurge vs Scrapyard, who will win? Neither, we're going to gank them both!") 5. Run it. ... After all, you're a villain. Be proactive and plot. Just - like I said, don't expect a permanent population uptick of much, because there *are* reasons that have been hashed over for years of why people don't play (or stay) redside. Ongoing redside interest means ongoing redside events, similiar to Tanker Tuesday ("Villainous Vednesday" maybe?) and strong, interesting redside VGs to do that. (And I still suspect, just because of the side imbalance, you'll still mostly get people shifting grey versus red-only characters at best.)

Well... some people just don't *enjoy* redside. (or gold.) So...

PF does that. You either go "OK, that's just him" and chuckle or want to strangle him. :) My main reason for opposing this sort of thing is simple. I've already dealt with people who have insisted I "needed" the various KB-KD IOs, without ever seeing me play. I've taught groups that no, it actually isn't needed and can be useful - the tanks and brutes seem to love having mobs flung their way for some reason. >.> And I've blocked people who were just being asses about it. I don't want to see that behaviour increase, and I don't want people to ... basically never learn to properly use it because they have some global IO in. And honestly, I've seen *having* that directly affect my survivability - negatively. Example: Dark/Pain defender. Soloing through a sewer mission. I have that IO in Torrent since that defender's typically on MSRs. Not being able to knock things away (which, granted, was more "expectation out of habit") meant the things knocked *down* were still in range of their more damaging attacks - and able to get up quicker to attack me - as well as making me less able to use the terrain (knock something down an incline, where I can use ranged attacks while they try to come back, for instance.) The only place I generally *do* feel a KB-KD is a universally "good" option is in pets - unlike people (who can look at a situation and place themselves properly,) pets just fling stuff all over the place. Pets, to me, should not have knock*back.* (Well, that and bonfire, where there's a decided increase in damage as it gives enemies a nice crispy brown texture...)