KB to KD in Repel (Kin) Question.

[Solarverse]

Right now I have an Sudden Acceleration in Repel. It works wonders, but it can take several attempts before it actually knocks anything down. Is there a better option to use? Does the IO from the SBB work better and have a higher chance to Proc? Are there any other options that work better?

[Darkir]

The chance to knockdown is based on the repel power itself. Normally when it would have knocked back, now it knocks down. The only options for procs are a +100% force feedback proc and a smashing damage proc. Both do not go off constantly, but when the force feedback proc goes off, you'll notice and it makes a difference in the recharge of your higher recharge powers, like your T9. I often hit the recharge cap on my fire/kin because of it. The smashing damage proc is pretty lackluster and not worth it in my opinion, unless you have nothing else to do with the slot.

[Solarverse]

58 minutes ago, Darkir said:

The chance to knockdown is based on the repel power itself. Normally when it would have knocked back, now it knocks down. The only options for procs are a +100% force feedback proc and a smashing damage proc. Both do not go off constantly, but when the force feedback proc goes off, you'll notice and it makes a difference in the recharge of your higher recharge powers, like your T9. I often hit the recharge cap on my fire/kin because of it. The smashing damage proc is pretty lackluster and not worth it in my opinion, unless you have nothing else to do with the slot.

God deal, thanks for the info, Darkir. Much appreciated.

[Call Me Awesome]

I'd wondered about KB-KD in Repel myself since I seem to remember the game having two distinct mechanisms, one was KB with KD just being a low mag KB while the other was a "push or repel" that simply pushed the mobs back instead of knocking them down or sending them flying.

[Doomguide2005]

IIRC the breakpoint is around mag 0.67.  Enough so, for example, Focus from the Claws set would KD but not KB.

[Mercurias]

My DP/Kin Corrupter gets a lot of use out of Repel. I just zip into Repel range, use Fulcrum Shift, and nuke while 2/3rds of the mob turns to Swiss cheese.

[StratoNexus]

On 11/8/2019 at 7:53 PM, Call Me Awesome said:

I'd wondered about KB-KD in Repel myself since I seem to remember the game having two distinct mechanisms, one was KB with KD just being a low mag KB while the other was a "push or repel" that simply pushed the mobs back instead of knocking them down or sending them flying.

Indeed. Ironically, while Hurricane uses the repel mechanic (and also has a chance for KB), Repel only deals KB and does not use the repel mechanic.

[Redlynne]

The downside to putting KB>KD in Repel is that if you don't depart the "Flop Zone" quickly you'll wind up draining a lot of your blue bar away since Repel will keep "hitting" things and every time it does it will cost you endurance, and since they're not getting flung away from you (as planned by the Devs at before game launch) you'll just keep hitting them with Repel.  So if you're going to use that trick, it is very much to your advantage to use it in a sort of Suppress 'n' Scoot manner, rather than trying to Plant The Flag and defend it with Repel running.

[Call Me Awesome]

On 11/22/2019 at 9:40 PM, Redlynne said:

The downside to putting KB>KD in Repel is that if you don't depart the "Flop Zone" quickly you'll wind up draining a lot of your blue bar away since Repel will keep "hitting" things and every time it does it will cost you endurance, and since they're not getting flung away from you (as planned by the Devs at before game launch) you'll just keep hitting them with Repel.  So if you're going to use that trick, it is very much to your advantage to use it in a sort of Suppress 'n' Scoot manner, rather than trying to Plant The Flag and defend it with Repel running.

I've never put the proc in Repel on my Sonic/Kin corruptor but I do use the power occasionally as a positioning tool kind of like Hurricane.  It's not really useful for long term use due to all the aggro it draws but it's quite useful for knocking a few strays towards the tank or simply into a tighter group for AOE's.  I'll toggle it on, kick the mobs in the desired direction then toggle it off and get back to work.  I've rarely used it as a Gandolf (You Shall Not Pass!) power but in some rare situations it's useful there, like bottling up the massive spawns into the reactor door on the Yin TF until the team gets the mobs in the reactor thinned out.  You have to be careful of your positioning or you'll have ALL of them shooting at you though.

[Mercurias]

On 11/22/2019 at 8:40 PM, Redlynne said:

The downside to putting KB>KD in Repel is that if you don't depart the "Flop Zone" quickly you'll wind up draining a lot of your blue bar away since Repel will keep "hitting" things and every time it does it will cost you endurance, and since they're not getting flung away from you (as planned by the Devs at before game launch) you'll just keep hitting them with Repel.  So if you're going to use that trick, it is very much to your advantage to use it in a sort of Suppress 'n' Scoot manner, rather than trying to Plant The Flag and defend it with Repel running.

This is a solid Pre-35 (for corrupters) plan for using Repel, but as soon as I got Transference I turned on Repel and just kept it on. Repel can drain your blue bar alarmingly fast in big groups of enemies, but I find the mitigation to be worth it.

[Redlynne]

10 minutes ago, Mercurias said:

This is a solid Pre-35 (for corrupters) plan for using Repel, but as soon as I got Transference I turned on Repel and just kept it on. Repel can drain your blue bar alarmingly fast in big groups of enemies, but I find the mitigation to be worth it.

It's a double edged sword, that's for sure!  So long as you know what you're doing with it, you'll be able to cut your opponents more than you cut yourself with it.  The thing is, managing that trick is a matter of experience, judgement and situational awareness ... all skills that do not render easily to spreadsheet analysis in a vacuum outside of the game client.  You can finesse it, if you're willing to learn what works and what doesn't (and avoid what doesn't work), but that's not something that is "built into" the power itself and is something that needs to be LEARNED by the Player(s) involved.

[Brutal Justice]

I have whirlwind slotted with a sudden acceleration and force feedback on a dm/fire brute built specifically to run whirlwind.  I feel like I have won the server because most people have never seen whirlwind, let alone in actual combat.  It takes constant attention from consume and consumption but it’s awesome.  He’s stalled at 47 without other IOs because of altitis.  Fiery Typhoon.  

 

He he was also shelved when the tank updates where announced because I would love to hit things with shadow maul and have a larger radius on whirlwind.  Another reroll in the works.  Which I feel pretty much sums up what these changes are going to do to the brute vs tank dynamics.

Edited November 24, 2019 by Mr.Sinister

[Steel]

On 11/24/2019 at 4:32 PM, Mr.Sinister said:

I have whirlwind slotted with a sudden acceleration and force feedback on a dm/fire brute built specifically to run whirlwind.

Thank you for this wonderful idea! 

 

I've started a Rad/Elec Brute today with the intent to run Whirlwind alongside Lightning Field and IG, and hopefully Energize and Power Sink will prove adequate to counter the endurance drain. Still only level 8, will take Whirlwind at 24, and I'm a looong way from Power Sink, but the build looks promising. I'll post an update when I have him slotted with some IO's, probably early forties when I have a better feel for how it plays.

[Papaschtroumpf]

how bad is the per hit endurance drain? Mid's doesn't seem to show it. It shows a .78/s endurance drain, so it's an expensive power to run (so is hurricane for that matter).

[Brutal Justice]

It’s pretty harsh.  Just going on memory I think in game it’s .78/s and then it says -1.0 end per hit.  You really have to build specifically for it.  

 

Once you get it rolling it’s pretty fun.  Sudden acceleration procs quite often as well.  I have only slotted the procs in whirlwind and the two +res uniques for IOs.   Turning off whirlwind I can tell it makes a whirl of difference in my survivability.  😋. From both the knockdown and recharge for healing flames.  

 

As survivability and end issues get help from an IO build, I’ll still have the +rech from sudden acceleration which normally wouldn’t be available to those power sets.  Which is a nice boon because gimmicky powers like repel and whirlwind often lose their value once a full IO build is realized.  

[oedipus_tex]

I had a Sonic Resonance teammate on the Positron Task Force using Sonic Repulsion, a power I've literally never seen in game. It makes the world's worst sound effect when it triggers. Somehow his endurance wasn't tanking though, and I'm not sure how.

 

Gravity Control's Singularity has a version of Repel that doesn't include an endurance hit. Wormholing stuff on top of it is the most endurance efficient method I've seen to deploy this type of power so far, but there may be secrets to making it work on the player-centered versions. Whirlwind on an Electric Tanker for example holds a lot of promise.

Edited November 28, 2019 by oedipus_tex

[Darkir]

40 minutes ago, oedipus_tex said:

I had a Sonic Resonance teammate on the Positron Task Force using Sonic Repulsion, a power I've literally never seen in game. It makes the world's worst sound effect when it triggers. Somehow his endurance wasn't tanking though, and I'm not sure how.

 

Gravity Control's Singularity has a version of Repel that doesn't include an endurance hit. Wormholing stuff on top of it is the most endurance efficient method I've seen to deploy this type of power so far, but there may be secrets to making it work on the player-centered versions. Whirlwind on an Electric Tanker for example holds a lot of promise.

The sound effects on repel and sonic repulsion are the worst. I really really wish that we had the option to turn off the sound effects of these powers.

[StratoNexus]

13 hours ago, Darkir said:

The sound effects on repel and sonic repulsion are the worst. I really really wish that we had the option to turn off the sound effects of these powers.

I do not see Repel in the list of currently known sounds, but silencing (or changing) it can be done if you can find that information.

[Oubliette_Red]

On 11/27/2019 at 7:09 PM, Darkir said:

The sound effects on repel and sonic repulsion are the worst. I really really wish that we had the option to turn off the sound effects of these powers.

You can try the following:

 

Powers\repelhit.ogg

Powers\repulsion.ogg
Powers\SonicRepulsion1.ogg

 

 

[Darkir]

15 minutes ago, Oubliette_Red said:

You can try the following:

 

Powers\repelhit.ogg

Powers\repulsion.ogg
Powers\SonicRepulsion1.ogg

 

 

So, the problem with these types of solutions is that it does nothing for the people on your team who are complaining. That is what I care about. My sound/powers don't bother me, but they do bother people on my team to the point where I sometimes turn it off because it bothers them.

[Oubliette_Red]

3 hours ago, Darkir said:

So, the problem with these types of solutions is that it does nothing for the people on your team who are complaining. That is what I care about. My sound/powers don't bother me, but they do bother people on my team to the point where I sometimes turn it off because it bothers them.

Seems like the perfect solution for those other people, is to silence the sounds that they don't like. The devs may or may not implement an option some time in the future, but why wait. I've shared modified dog barks with my friends that I team with all the time, since I decreased the volume of barks by about 75% and I've yet to meet someone that enjoys hearing the incessant barking.

[Myrmidon]

My Elec/Kin Corruptor uses Repel with KD and saps most mobs to nothing as they flop around. Having played the Defender counterpart in the old reality, it would work just as well.

[Papaschtroumpf]

Oubliette, I don't get it it. The trick to modify files above only affect your own PC, other people will have to do the same on their side to get the same benefit 

[plainguy]

On 11/27/2019 at 12:38 PM, Papaschtroumpf said:

how bad is the per hit endurance drain? Mid's doesn't seem to show it. It shows a .78/s endurance drain, so it's an expensive power to run (so is hurricane for that matter).

I had it on my kin a while ago.

 

As  Redlynne  mentioned it would knock down a bunch of mobs and then keep draining endurance.. It was pretty darn fast. 

I realized it was a mistake and it was much better off for me to knock them back and into range cap distance, then keep some pinned down. 

Love the graphics of Repel and love the concept of it but really not a great power. But I still have it.

Just one slotted with Forcefeed back proc now.

 

[Redlynne]

City of Data archive: Repel for Defender

 

Level	2
Type	Toggle
PvE damage scale	0.000000
Accuracy	1
Modes required
Modes disallowed	Disable_All
Range	-
Activate period	0.5 seconds
Interrupt time	-
Cast time	1.07 seconds
Recharge time	20 seconds
Endurance cost	0.39
Attack types
Effect area	Sphere
Radius	9 feet
Arc	-
Max targets hit	16
Entities affected	Foe
Entities autohit	Foe
Target	Caster
Target visibility	Line of Sight
Nofity Mobs	Always

 

Self:

• -1 Endurance (ignores enhancements and unresistable)

Target:

• 6.231 Knockback for 0.5s (does not stack from same caster) (PvE)
• 6.231 Knockback (27% chance) (effect can suppress) (PvP)
• Drop 1 Toggle(s) (0% chance)(ignores enhancements and unresistable) (PvP)