Focused Feedback: Shock Therapy (Build 1)

[johnnysc]

10 minutes ago, ScarySai said:

Speaking of pets, I kinda want to see this on masterminds.

I'm definitely rolling a Robots/Shock mastermind.

[ScarySai]

3 minutes ago, johnnysc said:

I'm definitely rolling a Robots/Shock mastermind.

I feel like this set would shine more than other buff sets like Empathy/pain dom on a MM. Especially since it's pretty easy to get near-soft cap on pets without externals buffs now.

 

Seems perfect for them, depending on how good the sapping/buffs end up being.

Edited February 25, 2020 by ScarySai

[Auroxis]

Looks like jumps reduce power strength in a multiplicative fashion and disregard enhancement values, which is nice. The 7th and last jump seems to be 50% as effective, regardless of enhancements and power boost. Now for powers:

 

Empowering Circuit does NOT stack with itself, which seems weird considering the power has similar recharge rates to Siphon Power from Kinetics. This is not stated in the tooltip either. While it would be kinda OP if did stack, since it can be active on up to 7 teammates at the range of 40% to 20% per buff (200% to 100% buff per teammate at max), Kinetics and Nature would still trump the set. If the cap is raised to 255 that's a different story, but i'd still like the damage buff to be stronger if it can't stack in favor of a longer recharge timer.

 

Amp Up's recharge buff is underwhelming at 5 stacks, giving only 31.5%. Its damage proc is underwhelming as well, giving about the same damage as an interface proc while costing endurance. EDIT: this is a bug, the proc is a pure endurance drain, not damage, and should only apply to the target.

 

Discharge is skippable unless your secondary is Electrical Blast, since Discharge has no -recovery.

 

Shock is an awful power, it needs a -res component to be a relevant pick. The powerset has enough static builders without it.

 

Overall the power level of the set is quite on the low-end since its offensive support is on the same level as sets like Empathy, and Empathy offers self protection and league heals the set lacks. Even if the chain cap is raised to 255 to make its league heals and buffs better, Empathy still has the advantage of being much sturdier thanks to its PBAoE heal and Regen.

 

Edited February 26, 2020 by Auroxis

[Bossk_Hogg]

Faraday Cage being a static area drop is not in line with how COH plays out, which tends to rush from spawn to spawn. Given the busy nature of the set, adding another click, particularly one that provides something you essentially need every fight, just adds to busywork.  Either it needs to be a toggle, or have it be a PBAE aura that follows you and lasts longer.

 

Defib is also another weak power. I've been of the belief that rezzes need to be similar to Nature's and usable on living targets, or Howling Twilight, which can be useful even if no one is dead. Additionally, having a rez bring you back with anything less than full health is just abysmal. Consider making this a team heal that ALSO rezzes.

 

Energizing Circuit - seriously? Crappy transfusion? Well, may as well cement this set as the poor man's kinetics. Id recommend moving the + end to Shock to help salvage that power and creating an entirely new ability for this tier. 

 

 

Edited February 25, 2020 by Bossk_Hogg

[Dan Petro]

A bit of subjective feed back that could potentially add some really fun flavor to the set.  Rather than the run speed buff the set provides with the stacks of static charge, what about a small boost in -friction ala powers like IR and Gymnatics from tactical arrow.  5+ move speed is going to do very little for characters not running SS or the new SS clone and do absolutely nothing for those that are.  This would give it a bit of fun uniqueness that could be useful no matter which travel powers you take. 

[johua]

I agree with whoever suggested Surge Protection as an alternative name.

[johnnysc]

It will be interesting to see how well this plays in higher level groups.  In my experience I've tended to only occasionally use my support powers in these circumstances, so the build/consume mechanic in this set might not be fully utilized.  You might end up spamming builder powers to little benefit to the team just to build the static charges.

 

In this case, I think Shock needs to do enough damage/debuff to be a useful part of the attack chain.

 

  

[anubys1]

Am I blind, or is Shock Therapy only available for Defenders?

 

I would LOVE to get this set on controllers and masterminds. Otherwise, I can't imagine I'll be playing too much of it.

[Apparition]

3 minutes ago, anubys1 said:

Am I blind, or is Shock Therapy only available for Defenders?

 

I would LOVE to get this set on controllers and masterminds. Otherwise, I can't imagine I'll be playing too much of it.

 

 

As indicated by the original post:

 

Quote

The set is currently available only as a Defender Primary. It will be ported to other support ATs after testing and feedback.

 

[Trickshooter]

These are my initial thoughts just from the patch notes. I will have more once I actually get to play the set.

 

I said it in the other thread, but Amp Up's icon seems a little underwhelming to me. I know that it's the icon for nearly all Power Boost-effect powers, but every time I see it I think of mez resistance. I think it would look much more impressive as a tier 9 with the multi-buff icon of Power Build Up.

 

I feel like Discharge is missing -Recovery to make it a potent debuff, that way enemies will continue to drain themselves as they attack with their weakened damage potential.

 

Faraday Cage being a location-based team Mez Resist seems so weird. I'll have to play around with it, but my initial feeling is that it should be a short duration/long recharge PBAoE click or a toggle (to reduce the number of click powers in the set).

 

Shouldn't Insulating Circuit use the Absorb icon, like Wild Bastion/Spirit Ward/Ablative Carapace? The current icon is associated with Smashing/Lethal Resistance.

 

Insulating Circuit and Energizing Circuit seem a bit limited in their uses. Insulating Circuit seems like a good place to maybe add Slow resistance, and Energizing Circuit could use some +Recovery.

 

Given how much of this set requires teammates (tied with Empathy at 6 powers), I think it would be a nice perk for the caster if building up and maintaining Static also provided +5% Recharge or EnduranceDiscount.

[Trickshooter]

46 minutes ago, Auroxis said:

Empowering Circuit does NOT stack with itself, which seems weird considering the power has similar recharge rates to Siphon Power from Kinetics. This is not stated in the tooltip either. While it would be kinda OP if did stack, since it can be active on up to 7 teammates at the range of 40% to 20% per buff (200% to 100% buff per teammate at max), Kinetics and Nature would still trump the set.

I think Siphon Power and Fulcrum Shift are the only ally +Damage powers that stack (and probably because their entire effects are pet based), so Empowering Circuit is not the odd power for not stacking.

[Auroxis]

13 minutes ago, Trickshooter said:

I think Siphon Power and Fulcrum Shift are the only ally +Damage powers that stack (and probably because their entire effects are pet based), so Empowering Circuit is not the odd power for not stacking.

If you compare it with Fortitude and Forge, those powers have far longer recharge times and do not apply to multiple targets at once. You can only keep all teammates buffed with those powers at near-maximum levels of recharge, so the powers are always useful within their recharge timer. Meanwhile you fire Empowering Circuit once, it's back up within four seconds, and it's near-useless until 20s have passed.

 

The only excuse for it is building up stacks for a slightly better Discharge or Amp up, which feels weird. Unlike combo points where you're using impactful powers to build up a super impactful power, you're using useless powers to build up a pretty underwhelming power.

Edited February 25, 2020 by Auroxis

[SeraphimKensai]

Overall it looks like it has some potential but I think it might underperform in a couple areas due to the random nature of chains.

 

I really like the Amp Up power as it seems akin to my suggestion relating to an Amplification support powerset awhile back.

 

Discharge looks interesting, but since it's a spender of static, I think we have an interesting opportunity here to have a scaling effect on the enemies it targets based on how many stacks of static there are. I would honestly rather than restoring endurance based on the number of stacks you have, have it debuff the Target's recovery/regen based on the number of stacks. I think that would keep the power relatively in line with the overall vision for the set but also help appease the masses asking for some more offensive application.

 

I would also take the opportunity to add some resistance to end drain on insulating circuit, as that being able to offer some protection for allies to end drain would be fairly unique.

 

 

Like I said though it has some potential.

[Arcanum]

Hey everyone!

I've seen a lot of players reporting some concerns about the name 'Shock Therapy', but I think its time to reclaim the word. As a mental health professional, IRL - I see a lot of negative connotation associated with the treatment, however, the fact is that ECT (Electroconvulsive Therapy) has seen progress since the 1930s when it was first developed (and obtained the stigma). The therapy is still used today in rare cases (mostly in Europe) and has had success in treating several forms of severe depression, manic behaviors and bipolar personality disorders. In response to the players out there who claim its being used in "Homophobic and Sexual Orientation Conversion Therapies", those same programs also utilize Psychoanalytic and Behavioral therapies (Which are used to treat common problems such as phobias, depression disorders, anxiety disorders as well as assisting individuals with Autism Spectrum Disorder improve their quality of life, just to name a few). 

The reality is that the term "Shock Therapy" isn't a 'bad' thing. Its like any other power in a world full of superpowered individuals - it comes down to how the hero...or villain...decides to use it!

Plus, let's be honest - we're running around with The 5th Column (AKA - Nazis). As well as slashing/hacking/beheading opponents with swords, guns and axes. Its a video game - let's just enjoy it and move on!

Edited February 25, 2020 by GM Arcanum

[Auroxis]

While I understand your intent, "Reclaiming words" isn't something worth getting into, @GM Arcanum.

 

You're not gonna change how people view words using a video game mod.

Edited February 25, 2020 by Auroxis

[Super Atom]

It's also just not a great name. Much like head splitter and disembowel it sounds like an ability not a power set. It just doesn't fit regardless of people taking offense or not.

[Trickshooter]

4 hours ago, GM Arcanum said:

Hey everyone!

I've seen a lot of players reporting some concerns about the name 'Shock Therapy', but I think its time to reclaim the word. As a mental health professional, IRL - I see a lot of negative connotation associated with the treatment, however, the fact is that ECT (Electroconvulsive Therapy) has seen progress since the 1930s when it was first developed (and obtained the stigma). The therapy is still used today in rare cases (mostly in Europe) and has had success in treating several forms of severe depression, manic behaviors and bipolar personality disorders. In response to the players out there who claim its being used in "Homophobic and Sexual Orientation Conversion Therapies", those same programs also utilize Psychoanalytic and Behavioral therapies (Which are used to treat common problems such as phobias, depression disorders, anxiety disorders as well as assisting individuals with Autism Spectrum Disorder improve their quality of life, just to name a few). 

The reality is that the term "Shock Therapy" isn't a 'bad' thing. Its like any other power in a world full of superpowered individuals - it comes down to how the hero...or villain...decides to use it!

Plus, let's be honest - we're running around with The 5th Column (AKA - Nazis). As well as slashing/hacking/beheading opponents with swords, guns and axes. Its a video game - let's just enjoy it and move on!

 

Appreciate the sentiment, and I'm not saying the name isn't clever, but it doesn't fit with how powersets in the game are named. It would make a good character name or a good power name, but not a powerset name.

 

The powerset names are pretty straightforward and read like how they'd be listed in the Abilities section of a character file.

Soandso's power is Electrical Blasts.

Whatshisname's power is Electricity Control.
Whatsherface's power is Shock Therapy...?

Edited February 26, 2020 by Trickshooter

[Vanden]

9 minutes ago, Super Atom said:

It's also just not a great name. Much like head splitter and disembowel it sounds like an ability not a power set. It just doesn't fit regardless of people taking offense or not.

Yeah, this is the only real issue I have with the name, it sounds too specific. 

[Apparition]

I like it, IMO.  It's just as fitting a buff and heal set as Empathy.

[Doc_Scorpion]

15 minutes ago, GM Arcanum said:

Plus, let's be honest - we're running around with The 5th Column (AKA - Nazis).

Yes, let's be honest - we're running around with a villain group that vaguely resembles Nazis.  And equally honestly, that's totally irrelevant to whether people are bothered by naming a powerset after something that's deeply offensive to them.

[Mikewho]

Regarding not wanting to add offensive capabilities: I can understand wanting a set which has very little offense. However in that case I suggest buffing some of its defensive capabilities substantially to make up for the lack of offense. Or perhaps give it a substantial -recovery debuff.

[Doomrider]

Maybe the set should be called Electric Boogaloo. 

Then we can petition to rename Empathy "Heal Blast". As someone who is incapable of expressing Empathy, the fact that there is a set with that name triggers me greatly.

[siolfir]

2 minutes ago, Doomrider said:

Maybe the set should be called Electric Boogaloo. 

Then we can petition to rename Empathy "Heal Blast". As someone who is incapable of expressing Empathy, the fact that there is a set with that name triggers me greatly.

No, Thermal should be Heal Blast in honor of the effects. Since Pain Domination is taken already, that means that Empathy would have to be Health Domination.

 

And as echoed above, my problem isn't with Shock Therapy as a name in and of itself, it's that it sounds like it should be the heal within an electric support set. Still haven't been on beta yet but I'm back from work and downloading now.

[DR_Mechano]

Yeah I'm less hung up on the name having a stigma and more hung up on the name just not fitting the standard naming convention since Shock Treatment sounds like, as others have said, it should be a power within the set, not the name of the set PLUS we already have a villainess named Shock Treatment

https://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Shock_Treatment

[Saikochoro]

52 minutes ago, GM Arcanum said:

Plus, let's be honest - we're running around with The 5th Column (AKA - Nazis). As well as slashing/hacking/beheading opponents with swords, guns and axes. Its a video game - let's just enjoy it and move on!

A refreshing post. And I thought it an interesting complaint given what you pointed out above. This game is centered around killing people/other living things. If that’s not offensive I don’t know what is. And yet, I assume we don’t get all beaten up about that since we see it for what it is - a fun game that we enjoy playing.