Focused Feedback: Dark Melee Update (Build 1)

[Captain Powerhouse]

6 minutes ago, Murcielago said:

Prior to the change, the noise would create an audible "thud" when landing the blow. The sound for shadow maul is now the same regardless of missing or hitting. I am not sure if that was intentional or not. 

Sounds like a sound file is missing from the build...

[Bopper]

3 minutes ago, Doc_Scorpion said:

Just happens I rolled a dark/shield brute just the other day and he was sitting in Atlas Park at lvl 7.  Took him out for a spin on Brainstorm...  and Shadow Maul's increased recharge time really effs up low level attack chains.  I'll get him up to DO levels later and see how it feels there.

Can't you throw in one of the many P2W attacks?

[Rejolt]

Can I take it the cottage rule is weakening and can we expect transformative changes to things like electric blast and super strength?

[Murcielago]

Just now, Rejolt said:

Can I take it the cottage rule is weakening and can we expect transformative changes to things like electric blast and super strength?

This isn't breaking the cottage rule. This is a maybe a 10% increase in AoE damage. Its noticable, but it isn't transformative. Bearing that in mind, EB and SS could use some help. Especially with porting SS over to Scrappers. 

[SeraphimKensai]

The cottage rule was something the developers from Cryptic later Paragon Studio set up, when they weren't out the door so did any necessity to cling to archaic rules. That said I would argue the best rule from a utilitarian approach would be following the weight of public opinion regarding changes.

[Broken_Prey]

3 minutes ago, Rejolt said:

Can I take it the cottage rule is weakening and can we expect transformative changes to things like electric blast and super strength?

DC still gives you end so this isn't breaking the cottage rule 

[ScarySai]

I'll be replacing my shadow maul sound with a Jojo "Muda" as soon as I find out the sound file name. >_>

 

Also, I don't see how the cottage rule applies here. Both abilities still functions the same way and fulfill the same purpose, just better.

 

 

Edited February 25, 2020 by ScarySai

[Wavicle]

Is it OP? I dunno...if so probably not by much.

I like the dual functionality, meaningful choices are good.

[Doc_Scorpion]

43 minutes ago, Bopper said:

Can't you throw in one of the many P2W attacks?

I'm testing Dark Melee - not P2W.

[Bopper]

2 minutes ago, Doc_Scorpion said:

I'm testing Dark Melee - not P2W.

Right, but low level attack chains would use those powers. I'm not sure if you're saying your attack chain is having gaps using only Dark Melee, or if its using everything a low level character can have.

[Doc_Scorpion]

1 minute ago, Bopper said:

Right, but low level attack chains would use those powers. I'm not sure if you're saying your attack chain is having gaps using only Dark Melee, or if its using everything a low level character can have.

What I'm doing is the equivalent of "balancing around SO's" - checking and testing Dark Melee's baseline capability.  That capability has been affected both positively (increased arc) and negatively (increased recharge time) by this change.  With the small numbers and low power levels of enemies encountered in this range, the negative change weighs heavier on my mind than the positive.  It delays the ability to build a smooth, enhanceable, attack chain and potentially costs me a slot (for a recharge) at levels where slots are precious and few.

[flip]

1 hour ago, Doc_Scorpion said:

Just happens I rolled a dark/shield brute just the other day and he was sitting in Atlas Park at lvl 7.  Took him out for a spin on Brainstorm...  and Shadow Maul's increased recharge time really effs up low level attack chains.  I'll get him up to DO levels later and see how it feels there.

shadow maul has never had much of a place in *any* attack chain. with DM's spammy low level bread and butter of shadow punch, smite, and siphon life, I'm not really quite sure how an increased CD on a skill you typically previously avoided using is going to make a huge difference.

Edited February 25, 2020 by flip

[Tater Todd]

1 hour ago, Rejolt said:

Can I take it the cottage rule is weakening and can we expect transformative changes to things like electric blast and super strength?

The Devs on Live also weren't above breaking the Cottage rule if a set truly needs it.

[ScarySai]

13 minutes ago, Tater Todd said:

The Devs on Live also weren't above breaking the Cottage rule if a set truly needs it.

The cottage rule wasn't even broken here, though.

[csr]

2 hours ago, Doc_Scorpion said:

Just happens I rolled a dark/shield brute just the other day and he was sitting in Atlas Park at lvl 7.  Took him out for a spin on Brainstorm...  and Shadow Maul's increased recharge time really effs up low level attack chains.  I'll get him up to DO levels later and see how it feels there.

Did you take both Shadow Punch and Smite?

[csr]

2 hours ago, Captain Powerhouse said:

Sounds like a sound file is missing from the build...

What you get is the "whiff" sound of missing, regardless of a hit or not.  It's a bit disconcerting as is.

[Doc_Scorpion]

3 minutes ago, csr said:

Did you take both Shadow Punch and Smite?

Yes.

[csr]

Since I had my Incarnate DM/Regen Brute on beta already, I took him out for a spin in the Comic Con S&L farm at +4x8.  I didn't bother to rework him, so Dark Consumption was slotted with just three Performance Shifters, reducing the likely damage value by a chunk - he's a Brute though, so less than on other ATs - and increasing the cycle time.  I ran the farm in just over 10 minutes using Incarnates but no inspirations.  DM is not exactly well suited to this, of course, so that time sans all that +DMG I'd have if I were really farming is pretty good.  I could have shaved it to 8 minutes or less if I was more serious about it.  That's not going to approach a Spines/Fire of course, but we're talking a DM/Regen here, currently one of the worst farm builds I can think of.

Edited February 25, 2020 by csr

[Monos King]

I don't like the Shadow Maul change, at all. People are talking about it "not having a place in attack rotations" but it was only a hair away from knockout blow (peak melee damage) and hit in a cone. If it wasn't being used in any chains already, I doubt many people would be using it now. Frankly, it would've been more appropriate to just increase it's damage more so it was more rewarding. That was my favorite crit burst, maybe the only real one for AoE.

 

And now it's gone. 

[Troo]

I'm guessing some tweaks may be possible before live, correct?

 

Thanks to those who are taking the time to test this. Hopefully we all can provide some valuable feedback. 

 

What a nice Tuesday surprise.

 

Also on this date in 1751, the 1st performing monkey exhibited in America, NYC (admission 1 cent)

[Monos King]

Shadow Maul was a rewarding power for scrapper and stalkers who actually used it when it had a greater damage. Esepcially in PvP. Very few people used it at all, but it was actually pretty great for those of us that did. 

 

The current change nukes it's damage potential in those satisfying situations that we bank on. If people that were AoE and farm centric, or even those who liked single target weren't using it to begin with, I don't really see why those of us who enjoyed it's prior application should accept this change in that direction. It's a lot less fun.

 

I think it would have been better to just increase it's damage nearer to knockout blow level and animation time as well instead of this, turning it into a truly worthwhile AoE ability for both. Those that didn't use it keep not using it, unless they feel like they want to take a few extra seconds to dish out huge damage to a cone in front. As for the target cap changes, I think that's fine.

Edited February 25, 2020 by monos1

[Bopper]

9 minutes ago, monos1 said:

I don't like the Shadow Maul change, at all. People are talking about it "not having a place in attack rotations" but it was only a hair away from knockout blow (peak melee damage) and hit in a cone. If it wasn't being used in any chains already, I doubt many people would be using it now. Frankly, it would've been more appropriate to just increase it's damage more so it was more rewarding. That was my favorite crit burst, maybe the only real one for AoE.

 

And now it's gone. 

I'm confused, but how was Shadow Maul only a hair away from knockout blow? SM has a 3.07s cast time doing 2.156 scale damage. Whereas KoB has a 2.23s cast time with 3.56 scale damage. 

[macskull]

7 minutes ago, monos1 said:

Esepcially in PvP.

I liked Shadow Maul in PvP because it meant the person using it was easy to kill because they thought it was a good idea to root themselves for 3 seconds for an anemic attack.

[Monos King]

6 minutes ago, Bopper said:

I'm confused, but how was Shadow Maul only a hair away from knockout blow? SM has a 3.07s cast time doing 2.156 scale damage. Whereas KoB has a 2.23s cast time with 3.56 scale damage. 

I mean im terms of damage placement in the game. Like there isn't a lot of powers in between knockout blow and shadow maul to my knowledge. I could be mixing up values because I only know of damage from that move on the much weaker tank/brute ATs, but the point stands. I immediately noticed a really upsetting damage difference, and I wasn't even aware of the update.

[Monos King]

3 minutes ago, macskull said:

I liked Shadow Maul in PvP because it meant the person using it was easy to kill because they thought it was a good idea to root themselves for 3 seconds for an anemic attack.

Haha. If we're talking close up 1v1, I've never had a problem with that risk. Was the term that's used now 'kickball'? I wouldn't ever get the power when I'm dealing with ranged users lol. But if they (hopefully) change it back, you are welcome to fight my DM who uses shadow maul.