Focused Feedback: Dark Melee Update (Build 1)

[csr]

1 hour ago, Doc_Scorpion said:

What I'm doing is the equivalent of "balancing around SO's" - checking and testing Dark Melee's baseline capability.  That capability has been affected both positively (increased arc) and negatively (increased recharge time) by this change.  With the small numbers and low power levels of enemies encountered in this range, the negative change weighs heavier on my mind than the positive.  It delays the ability to build a smooth, enhanceable, attack chain and potentially costs me a slot (for a recharge) at levels where slots are precious and few.

While they make a note that the DPS (per activation second here) is largely unchanged on Shadow Maul, the Damage/Cycle is only 44% of what it was.  So you need to hit 2.3 times as many foes with the wider arc.  You're probably not going to top 1.5 times as many at low levels.  Also the END cost was boosted from 8.53 to 13.52 with the increased recharge so you're END/sec of activation doubled, making it less END efficient for the lowbie as well.  Since it does roughly 65% the damage for 58% more END it's DPE is 41% what it was.  So for END efficiency you need to hit about 2.5 times as many foes.

 

Still, I think it's a good change, as it trades low level/low target environment value for better AoE.  You really can routinely hit 3 times as many foes in a farm environment, for example.  And with Soul Drain you like more targets to begin with, so it gets some synergy there.  It's not a clear cut upgrade though, as the downside you note is real.

Edited February 25, 2020 by csr

[Bopper]

I would like the damage and cast time of Knockout Blow with a 16 second recharge hitting 16 enemies in a 120 degree cone too. But only if I can get it as my T1 power. I dont want to have to wait for level 2 to get it. 😛

[Monos King]

Just now, Bopper said:

I would like the damage and cast time of Knockout Blow with a 16 second recharge hitting 16 enemies in a 120 degree cone too. But only if I can get it as my T1 power. I dont want to have to wait for level 2 to get it. 😛

lol ok maybe not that much damage. I'd like it to at least be what it was before though. I'm also upset that now it's not doing enough damage to warrant keeping actual enhancement sets instead of just going the proc bomb route. I liked being able to stay OG with benefits, but that's just a minor gripe. 

 

I know this is going to sound whiny but it already doesn't feel the same to me. I like the other changes, but that's got to stay for me.

[Bopper]

Given the cast time reduction, it's still on par with its current DPA. Is it the burst damage you want, or is it the longer recharge you don't like?

[Troo]

@monos1Energy Transfer would like to cry you a river.. but it has no tears for reduction in cast time.

[Monos King]

5 minutes ago, Bopper said:

Given the cast time reduction, it's still on par with its current DPA. Is it the burst damage you want, or is it the longer recharge you don't like?

Longer recharge is fine, if it meant keeping the old animation and increasing dmg slightly I'd even take a longer tech, though I definitely don't speak for everyone there. The burst damage is what made the power worth it to begin with (crits).

 

I assume the change isn't really any different now for brutes and tanks.

[Monos King]

On 2/25/2020 at 3:42 PM, Troo said:

@monos1Energy Transfer would like to cry you a river.. but it has no tears for reduction in cast time.

Well energy transfer died a long time ago, I can still save shadow maul!

Edit: I see now why people called for higher damage, having a reward for long cast times is great. I'm in favor of EM changes too.

Edited February 27, 2020 by monos1

[Jimmy]

Merged some topics in. Please keep feedback for Dark Melee in this thread.

[modest]

I love the changes to Dark Melee. My only feedback is that I wish that the Stalker version of Dark Melee would exchange Touch of Fear for the new Dark Consumption.

[ssbmario]

PLS PLS PLS PLS PLS Do NOT CHANGE Dark Consumption!

 

Dark Consumption is a utility power and should be kept AS a utility power to run the god awful amount of dark armor toggles because this set, regardless of how any one feels is SUPPOSED to work with Dark armor (another set that needs help).

 

It is SOUL DRAIN that is a complete POS. A slow ass animation that gets you shot to hell when you use it on a large group (hurr hurr, I'm a tank, some goof is chuckling) but as Moncro can attest to SOUL DRAIN on a SQUISHY tends to get the SQUISHY KILLED by unmitigated aggro.

 

The dmg buff of Soul Drain is totally shit, too. Won't believe me without evidence? Give EVERYONE a choice (not tanks, they don't count as they break the curve by literally absorbing all dmg anyway) between build up and Soul Drain and NO ONE will take Soul Drain. It's even more garbage SOLO when it's down to you vs a Boss. a 7% dmg buff (unless that's been fixed finally dear god PLS FIX THIS GARBAGE).

 

For tanks Soul Drain is fine because they can herd people together and then pop it except with max target's it's still only 105% dmg (7% x 15 targets) which is hardly better than build up which is instant and doesn't require 10-20 seconds of prep time and herds (unless playing at x8 solo which is NOT what beginner toons do).

 

Think about it: Soul drain was meant to be the AoE of Dark Melee. I cannot fathom WHY but it is. It has the extended range necessary to BE the PBAoE. It had the "bonus" (absolutely F*ing TROLL) of giving a damage buff which means that in order to DEAL Dmg the scrapper had to LOSE OUT on their PBAoE damage. To put that in perspective take the other melee sets and lower their DPS, shrink their cone to virtually non-existent and REMOVE BUILD UP and tell me you want to play a broadsword like that... a Spine like that. No one in their right mind would play any melee set that was forced to play in the mold of Dark Melee because it was ill-conceived when it was designed.

 

Let me be clear:

 

You're taking a single target only one-on-one style set and giving it a self-fulcrum shifting NUKE BLAST.

 

That is NOT fixing something. That's sounds of TREMENDOUS overcompensation. I thank you as someone who ran Dark Melee for YEARS in considering my set and giving it a buff but this is RIDICULOUS. Fix SOUL DRAIN. Soul Drain is a completely WORTHLESS POWER. No one truly even gets a BENEFIT from Soul Drain. Every high level team is a nuke fest. Long time battles don't exist (except vs AV's which means 7% dmg vs build up's 80%) which means Soul Drain's Long Duration+low dmg vs Build Up's short duration+High Dmg is a liar's argument (cause the AoE won't be rechrg'd in time for the next group to still be standing).

 

PS: Pls fix me so I can get into the test server and actually auto level a toon so I can try these and other changes myself. This is exactly the kind of thing I want to be testing. I can get to test and get a level 1 and that's it. I don't even seem to be able to copy things to test including my 50 dark/dark brute.

[modest]

5 hours ago, ssbmario said:

PLS PLS PLS PLS PLS Do NOT CHANGE Dark Consumption!

 

Dark Consumption is a utility power and should be kept AS a utility power to run the god awful amount of dark armor toggles because this set, regardless of how any one feels is SUPPOSED to work with Dark armor (another set that needs help).

It sounds as if you misinterpreted the patch notes. It's still a utility power, but now it has a new animation and has the potential to hit more enemies. It still recovers endurance.

Edited February 26, 2020 by modest
CP corrected me on the radius.

[Neogumbercules]

DM/Shield. 

 

This set feels absolutely incredible now. DC is strong but not overwhelmingly powerful. It's great when you can stack up foes but in most stick and move situations the small radius will limit its potential target cap. 

 

It truly feels like a well rounded set now with lots of active play between maximizing soul drain, shadow Maul (which should be the template for every shitty cone in this game going forward) and DC. 

 

I played IOd to hell with T4 Cardiac since it pairs well with Shield and Ageless. It really feels like one of the most active and fun melee sets available right now, between its utility and its self-buffing mechanic, I feel compelled to go as fast as possible, and I don't feel like I have to suck at something (AOE) to have a decent ST and situational utility any more. 

 

Honestly the best update on HC so far IMO. All future set updates should aim to make them as fun and powerful as DM is now. 

[ssbmario]

5 minutes ago, modest said:

It sounds as if you misinterpreted the patch notes. It's still a utility power, but now it has a wider radius and has the potential to hit more enemies. It still recovers endurance.

No, I'm understanding that it's being given an increased dmg capability and a much wider area of affect. Turning it into Lightning Rod with + End. GM Kal is helping me get to test server as I type this (and hopefully my copy paste will work this time around).

[Haijinx]

The recharge for SM won't matter in the long run.

 

Its pointless to worry how something works at level 7, no one spends any time there.

 

 

[Jimmy]

7 minutes ago, ssbmario said:

No, I'm understanding that it's being given an increased dmg capability and a much wider area of affect. Turning it into Lightning Rod with + End. GM Kal is helping me get to test server as I type this (and hopefully my copy paste will work this time around).

I still think you're not quite reading it right. The +endurance potential of the power over time is unchanged - yes the endurance per target was halved, but so was the cooldown. In most cases this will actually result in more endurance over time, as you would frequently overfill your Endurance bar with such a large amount of +end. Now it's split over two casts you can get more use out of it.

[Haijinx]

Is this Dark Consumption a psuedopet then? Or a normal attack?

 

May matter a lot for Procs.

[Murcielago]

9 minutes ago, ssbmario said:

No, I'm understanding that it's being given an increased dmg capability and a much wider area of affect. Turning it into Lightning Rod with + End. GM Kal is helping me get to test server as I type this (and hopefully my copy paste will work this time around).

So you're judging the change without even testing it? Lol k

[Jimmy]

1 minute ago, Haijinx said:

Is this Dark Consumption a psuedopet then? Or a normal attack?

 

May matter a lot for Procs.

Normal attack.

[Neogumbercules]

DM/Shield using a "purpled out" build that I slapped together on a whim did a Pylon in 3:42 with no Lore. 

 

I'm not sure what that translates to in DPS but I feel like it's a good result. I was using Dark Consumption is the attack chain and cycling Smite, Siphon, Midnight, and Zapp as available. 

 

I'm by no means a pylon person, but there's a casual players pylon result anyway. 

 

Edit: I checked out the pylon thread in the scrapper forums and if I punched the formula in right a time of 3:42 puts me at 299.43 DPS. Not bad. 

Edited February 26, 2020 by Neogumbercules

[Tater Todd]

4 hours ago, Captain Powerhouse said:

 

This Dark Consumption wont proliferate to those powers, ever. The Dark Melee version might be renamed to denote it is a different power.

Ah, I misspoke.  I like the regular version of Dark Consumption from the Soul Mastery pool for Dominators as it is now on the live Homecoming servers.  I would not want the new version of Dark Consumption on BETA: Brainstorm.  I was mostly asking if Dark Consumption in the Patron and APP pools will eventually have it's base recharge lowered but after looking at the numbers changing Dark Consumption to 180 seconds would make it just as strong as Consume from the Fiery Assault set.  That would probably be too strong having two +END PbAOEs firing every 93 seconds.

Edited February 26, 2020 by Tater Todd

[Murcielago]

My biggest concern is when is this change going live because I don't want to play Murcielago until it is. I don't really use SM much but I love the shit out of this Dark Consumption change. 

[Myrmidon]

Bye, bye SD/Elec. Hello SD/DM.

[Murcielago]

Just now, Myrmidon said:

Bye, bye SD/Elec. Hello SD/DM.

Honestly DM/SD is going to give Elec/SD a serious run for its money. Elec/SD may edge out slightly on AoE but DM will absolutely murder Elec in ST. 

[Myrmidon]

Just now, Murcielago said:

Honestly DM/SD is going to give Elec/SD a serious run for its money. Elec/SD may edge out slightly on AoE but DM will absolutely murder Elec in ST. 

I literally can’t wait to see the Proc Monster that comes out of this.

[Avilister]

The only real downside to these changes seems to be figuring out where to pull 3 more slots in my build from other stuff to feed my new Dark Consumption addiction.