Can We Talk About Accolade Click Powers?

[Derek Icelord]

This has been a personal bug bear of mine since I started playing way back when.

 

They're all 25 minute (1500 second) recharge for a duration of 60 seconds, save the Crey CBX-9/Stolen Immobilizer Ray which is a ST immobilize with middling damage. This is, in my opinion, not worth the effort involved to acquire them. I understand they're something of a relic from before the power creep got so insane, but getting these accolades should feel like a reward, not just another icon that clutters up the left side of my powers menu.

 

List of powers for reference:

Spoiler

Archmage / Demonic - +Res (All but Psi), +Def (All but Psi)

Conspiracy Theorist / Headline Stealer - Single target immobilize with moderate cold (hero) or energy (villain) damage

Geas of the Kind Ones / Force of Nature - +Rech, +Recovery, +ToHit, -Def (short description says accuracy, but it is ToHit)

Vanguard / Megalomaniac - Boosts secondary effects

Watchman - Minor +Res (Psi), +Def (Psi)

 

Proposal:

• Cut the recharge times down to something approaching reasonable, like 10 minutes. Maybe 15 at the absolute maximum.
• For the immobilize pistol, either:
  • Cut the recharge down even more (in the realm of 5 minutes or less)
  • Give it something worth caring about (maybe make the immobilize a mag 3.5 so it affects bosses).

 

Thoughts, comments, concerns, random unrelated (yet creative) insults?

Edited March 18, 2020 by Derek Icelord

[Outrider_01]

Archmage, Demonic, Geas, and Force are the equivalent to a T9 armor click.  Not meant to be used every time when its up.

 

Not to mention IO Defense bonuses, kills any reason at all for even a T9 armor choice.  Yeah, most are skipped, but a free power slot plus a freebie Alocade armor on just about the same recharge as a normal T9 would just FTOM even more.

[Burnsidhe]

"Not Meant To" doesn't matter to this discussion.

 

Changing the power from 1 minute every 25 minutes to 1 minute every 10 or 15 minutes is not going to change the balance of the game in any significant way. All it does is speed up the ability to take on really tough or long fights. This isn't Live anymore, where 'hours played' and 'concurrent users' were measurable business metrics used to justify budget decisions.

[Outrider_01]

25 minutes ago, Burnsidhe said:

"Not Meant To" doesn't matter to this discussion.

 

Changing the power from 1 minute every 25 minutes to 1 minute every 10 or 15 minutes is not going to change the balance of the game in any significant way. All it does is speed up the ability to take on really tough or long fights. This isn't Live anymore, where 'hours played' and 'concurrent users' were measurable business metrics used to justify budget decisions.

We playing the same CoH: Homecoming?  If a lot of people are quoting "solo +4/8 an TF and AV" it isn't really a long or tough fight to them, its a challenge and a metric.  When people are ROFLAOCOPTER laughable stomping normal content with their Incarnates, it isn't a challenge it is just a way to kill time.

 

Even without a click accolade power, your character is a god at 50.  Positron TF, wouldn't need it (stupid example, but you get the point).  Game is so easy, if you don't have the time and are impatient to use a crutch accolade while choosing not to get that T9 armor click (if you are melee) I don't know what the problem is if you don't want a challenge or want to spend the time for a tough/long fight.  But that is my opinion.

 

If you are looking for utility over finding value in an accolade, look at some of the incarnate.  I think its hybrid set, 2 minute recharge that blows away an accolade; I click 1 in mids to see the effects and go from about 40-50 defense to well over 100; you don't always need to max damage for a character if you want defense/resist at the same time.  And it recharges in 2 minutes, why bother with an accolade that is a T9 armor with a long recharge even at 15 mins.

[Greycat]

So how much of a reduction in strength are you willing to give for that big of a cut in recharge?

[Call Me Awesome]

In general those accolades are not worth the effort to acquire them.  I'd prefer them to function like the +HP/End accolades and offer a minor passive buff instead of a once in a blue moon moderate one.  That would make them worth acquiring.  The Crey pistol however is nearly worthless, a tier 1 blaster level immobilize on that kind of timer?  Only badge hunters worry about it and they only do so because of the badge.

 

Let's stick with accolades being a minor passive buff like the Atlas Medallion.

[Solarverse]

Can We Talk About Accolade Click Powers?

 

No.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

😄

[Razor Cure]

6 hours ago, Call Me Awesome said:

In general those accolades are not worth the effort to acquire them. 

Demonic/Magus takers all of..maybe 20 mins to get. And thats if you are hunting Hordlings from 0-100. Its even quicker if you are about lvl 20ish and have done Posi1 and 2.

FoN (the +rech one, i forget what it is hero side) IS much more effort too get, but I never usually bother with that. And the shitty Crey one? May as well just have that as a P2W power!

[Mr. Vee]

Demonic's the only one i bother to get. I remembered to actually use it that one time.

[Sarrate]

8 hours ago, Call Me Awesome said:

In general those accolades are not worth the effort to acquire them.  I'd prefer them to function like the +HP/End accolades and offer a minor passive buff instead of a once in a blue moon moderate one.  That would make them worth acquiring.  The Crey pistol however is nearly worthless, a tier 1 blaster level immobilize on that kind of timer?  Only badge hunters worry about it and they only do so because of the badge.

 

Let's stick with accolades being a minor passive buff like the Atlas Medallion.

This is probably going to be an unpopular opinion, but I think making major changes to them (either in recharge or turning them all into passives) would be a mistake.

 

-- People are already talking about how easy the game is, asking for harder difficulties, etc. By adding more passives buffs, you're effectively lowering the requirements to attain that kind of power. Likewise, reducing their recharge would provide more available god-hood. Even if it's not even close to perma, if a character has several over powerful clicks, they would become something else that could potentially fill in the gap.

 

-- Having said that, not everyone plays the meta game, and having (for example) Eye of the Magus turn into 5% res & 2.5% def all would have less of an impact on a Blaster than it would a Brute. Even if you don't use the click powers that often, they can really help out in a pinch (like taking out an EB that possesses your kryptonite).

 

-- I don't want everything to become homogeneous. I don't think everything should always be 100% mathematically better. One of the really cool things about CoH is that you can play a variety of characters and have wildly different experiences, even with the same AT. Different ATs, powersets, and builds have different priorities and value things different. Would changing Accolades be the straw that broke the camels back? No, of course not, but it is just another brick leading in that direction.

 

 

... having said all that, I think we can all agree that one of them isn't in the same ballpark - it isn't even the same sport - as the others. *cough Crey Pistol cough* You could double / half everything on it and I still don't think it would have a meaningful impact on any combat situation (no matter how contrived). :P

[Rooster Gold]

With perma haste level recharge my Demonic is 8min minus the 1min its active that's 7min, I can and do use it often.

 

You can also get a recharge bonus cheap from base empowerment stations among other places.

 

The crey pistol however is garbage.

[carroto]

I think Archmage / Demonic is fine.  As it is I have to consider carefully if I want to use it in any given situation, because if I do it may not be available if/when I potentially need it even more later.  I think that's as it should be.  Not that I'd mind if the recharge were reduced of course, but I think there does need to be a balance and I'm not sure that point is not where it already is.  I'd probably feel the same about Watchman if it offered bonuses that were actually worthwhile.  Not really worth bothering with at it's piddling values.

 

Geas of the Kind Ones / Force of Nature is okay too.  The huge +recharge, +recovery, and +tohit means that in (rare) situations where max damage output can make a real difference, you have a button to turn things up to 11.  It shouldn't be something you put on auto.

 

The other two are in a different category for me.  Not game-changing enough to be called out in rare situations, but on such a long recharge that it's too easy to forget to ever use them.  For the immobilize at least I would make some significant changes.  Maybe higher mag and longer duration.  Give it some purpose.  Right now if an AV is running around and I want to stop them, it won't help at all.  Even if just the mag were increased, how long does it last?  Not enough to make a difference.  That one's a real head-scratcher.

[Call Me Awesome]

3 hours ago, Sarrate said:

This is probably going to be an unpopular opinion, but I think making major changes to them (either in recharge or turning them all into passives) would be a mistake.

 

-- People are already talking about how easy the game is, asking for harder difficulties, etc. By adding more passives buffs, you're effectively lowering the requirements to attain that kind of power. Likewise, reducing their recharge would provide more available god-hood. Even if it's not even close to perma, if a character has several over powerful clicks, they would become something else that could potentially fill in the gap.

 

-- Having said that, not everyone plays the meta game, and having (for example) Eye of the Magus turn into 5% res & 2.5% def all would have less of an impact on a Blaster than it would a Brute. Even if you don't use the click powers that often, they can really help out in a pinch (like taking out an EB that possesses your kryptonite).

 

-- I don't want everything to become homogeneous. I don't think everything should always be 100% mathematically better. One of the really cool things about CoH is that you can play a variety of characters and have wildly different experiences, even with the same AT. Different ATs, powersets, and builds have different priorities and value things different. Would changing Accolades be the straw that broke the camels back? No, of course not, but it is just another brick leading in that direction.

 

 

... having said all that, I think we can all agree that one of them isn't in the same ballpark - it isn't even the same sport - as the others. *cough Crey Pistol cough* You could double / half everything on it and I still don't think it would have a meaningful impact on any combat situation (no matter how contrived). 😛

It makes no difference to me actually, outside of the passive HP/End accolades I never bother with them and still wouldn't with a 10 minute timer instead of the 25 minute it is now.  If they were low level passive buffs then depending on the character I might pick them up depending on the buff value and the nuisance factor in getting the accolade.

[summers]

I like them the way they are since I don't feel any obligation to get the clicky ones on every single character at 50. They are nice niche powers and I'm happy with that 🙂

[Call Me Awesome]

13 hours ago, summers said:

I like them the way they are since I don't feel any obligation to get the clicky ones on every single character at 50. They are nice niche powers and I'm happy with that 🙂

In other words, "It's nice that they're not very useful so I don't feel the need to go to the trouble of getting them."

 

Hmm, I'm not really sure that's a good design point...

[Solarverse]

I'm not really for or against it. I'm pretty much on the fence on this one.

[Robotech_Master]

Funny, but the recharge time of the powers is barely even an issue for me. My characters are so well-built and slotted that even in power sets that have a built-in "panic button," like Willpower or Shield Defense, I nearly never end up using it. Same token for powers like Archmage/Demonic; there's just nearly no time when I ever actually need it, so I'm not usually likely to need it again within 8 minutes or so of the last time (which, with permahasten plus other recharge rate boosts, is probably just about what that 25-minute period works out to).

 

Yeah, the Crey freeze gun is pretty useless, but then it was probably never intended to be all that useful anyway; it's just a visual reminder of a bragging right. Proof that you went to all the trouble to earn the thing. Rah rah.

 

Personally, I wish the Vanguard Medallion was more useful to people who aren't Controllers or Dominators. Who else is even going to care that you can double the length of your mezzes if you don't even have any mez attacks? Now, if they added doubling the duration of taunt effects, too, then we might have something…

[Indystruck]

They're not meant to be an integral part of your build, they're just a nice thing to have if you ever need them. Personally, keep them that way. 

[nihilii]

Geas and Archmage are affected by recharge buffs. A highend build will have them up every ~8 minutes or so as it is.

 

It makes a sizeable difference. Don't forget they're additive to whatever you also have.

YMMV, but I can tell you my characters get a great deal out of them.

 

Take Archmage: life is binary, either you're alive or you're dead. If your native mitigation carries you through 90% of sustained damage over time and Archmage plugs the gap, then you're immortal.

As for Geas, it's essentially a get out of jail free card when your end bar is about to bottom out. Or when you just died, resurrect and need the recharge because Hasten is on cooldown. Or when Nemesis stacks those vengeances and you need the tohit + faster recharge on Aim. And so on, and so on. It has great synergy with Archmage, as you can just pop the two and not worry about the defense debuff in Geas.

The Crey pistol is useless, no question. 30s Mag4 immobilize could be cool.

[Grouchybeast]

37 minutes ago, nihilii said:

Geas and Archmage are affected by recharge buffs. A highend build will have them up every ~8 minutes or so as it is.

I had no idea that was the case.  That does make them a lot more attractive, indeed.

[Tugzug]

The Crey Cryo Pistol should encase the target permanently in Carbonite, like what happened to Han Solo in Episode V.

[FinalCyclopedia]

The CBX-9 pistol looks and sounds awesome.  Why can't it's recharge be reduced by an order of magnitude?  It's not that powerful, but it is quite cool.

[DoctorDitko]

Well, if it was actually useful, then the Crey troops would be equipped with them!

 

(PS: I saw what you did there!)

 

Edited April 24, 2020 by DoctorDitko