Restrict Judgment powers during regular play.

[thunderforce]

On 3/26/2020 at 5:33 PM, RCU7115 said:

Gee, what's the next complaint ? Let's ask to get rid of the 5 levels you keep when you exemplar because someone is JEALOUS of you having access to 2 or 3 extra powers that you don't have ?

Incidentally, I think that would be an excellent idea, the obvious straw man aside. Even slotted with the SOs that the game is still nominally balanced around, an exemplared character will typically be pretty strong compared to teammates. With the attuned sets that are now commonplace, they're incredibly strong. Getting extra powers on top of that is just gravy - at low levels, it's a _lot_ of gravy.

 

I've been teaming, off and on, with friends who are new to the game. No-one likes to be redundant on a team, but if I just went all out, that's exactly the experience they'd get. (This is part of what's wrong with the incarnate situation, too; not only does it reduce players to irrelevancy, but the players it does it to are most likely to be relatively new to the game.)

 

If there was an option to disable those extra powers I would use it (and, sadly, it probably does have to be an option because of the political impossibility of nerfing anything, no matter how absurd it is).

 

I've anticipated two tediously predictable responses to which my replies are: "if you write that you'd better be able to tell me how to not use autopowers" and "yes, I could start a new toon; wouldn't it be nice to have a better choice between that and bringing one of my existing ones, especially if they are a good fit with the characters my friends have created?"

[Naraka]

1 hour ago, thunderforce said:

Incidentally, I think that would be an excellent idea, the obvious straw man aside. Even slotted with the SOs that the game is still nominally balanced around, an exemplared character will typically be pretty strong compared to teammates. With the attuned sets that are now commonplace, they're incredibly strong. Getting extra powers on top of that is just gravy - at low levels, it's a _lot_ of gravy.

 

I've been teaming, off and on, with friends who are new to the game. No-one likes to be redundant on a team, but if I just went all out, that's exactly the experience they'd get. (This is part of what's wrong with the incarnate situation, too; not only does it reduce players to irrelevancy, but the players it does it to are most likely to be relatively new to the game.)

 

If there was an option to disable those extra powers I would use it (and, sadly, it probably does have to be an option because of the political impossibility of nerfing anything, no matter how absurd it is).

 

I've anticipated two tediously predictable responses to which my replies are: "if you write that you'd better be able to tell me how to not use autopowers" and "yes, I could start a new toon; wouldn't it be nice to have a better choice between that and bringing one of my existing ones, especially if they are a good fit with the characters my friends have created?"

I personally practice a bit of self-restraint when teaming if only because it might make encounters less boring.  I'd like to explore aspects to entice players to self-restrain their spam but short of mind control, I don't see it as being a possibility.

 

I'd love to buff sets and fill holes to make sets/powers cool or awesome to make them really special if you pick them, but as the saying goes about why we can't have nice things, this is why nerfs are something that is required.  If you wish to want certain things improved that don't work as well as we wished, why wouldn't you accept to have certain aspects curbed so as to keep aspects of the game relevant?

[thunderforce]

Also, while of course we don't want to go back to the old world where incarnates had nothing to do but grind incarnate trials, the SCORE-ism of making some things that used to be max level 44 be max level 45 (so incarnates work) means an awful lot of the late game is affected.

[Greycat]

23 hours ago, Apparition said:

 

Or tell them to stop trying to solo on a Force Field Defender.

Why? It's fun.

 

Also, as far as having/not having the +5 level powers when exemped, about the only place I wish that hadn't happened was the PVP zones. I liked the lower level zones (since it wasn't just a Tier9-a-thon.) It was already a bit of a stretch when a lvl 15 fought a 25, even with both being set to 25 - just from number of powers and slotting - even without a 30+ coming in with yet more powers. And it opened up primary set T9s in Siren's, which made it less fun to me. (Then again, so did making it a battle of how much you dumped on IOs.)

 

But, again. Ship's sailed.

[Frosticus]

If someone launched a server with regular updates that basically halved IO set bonuses and allowed you to only slot 2-3 incarnate powers at once I'd be logging in immediately. 

 

For now this is what we have so I just solo TFs (as just about any AT can now) and I hunt AVs and GMs with my insp tray untouched. I only team for content that is gated behind a set number of players  these days. 

 

I personally think nukes as they currently stand are are way too good, but they used to be skipped. Maybe a middle point is where they should reside. Incarnate powers are pretty dumb Imo. But I use some of them (not lore) , because it is delibrately gimping myself not to. 

 

Teaming at 45+ for (most) regular content is a waste of time for me outside of itrials. I dont need a team to succeed, therefore a team is of no/little value to me. 

[golstat2003]

10 minutes ago, Frosticus said:

If someone launched a server with regular updates that basically halved IO set bonuses and allowed you to only slot 2-3 incarnate powers at once I'd be logging in immediately. 

 

For now this is what we have so I just solo TFs (as just about any AT can now) and I hunt AVs and GMs with my insp tray untouched. I only team for content that is gated behind a set number of players  these days. 

 

I personally think nukes as they currently stand are are way too good, but they used to be skipped. Maybe a middle point is where they should reside. Incarnate powers are pretty dumb Imo. But I use some of them (not lore) , because it is delibrately gimping myself not to. 

 

Teaming at 45+ for (most) regular content is a waste of time for me outside of itrials. I dont need a team to succeed, therefore a team is of no/little value to me. 

I actually find steam rolling teams at 50 to be very fun on the other hand. 

[Frosticus]

15 minutes ago, golstat2003 said:

I actually find steam rolling teams at 50 to be very fun on the other hand. 

and that is perfectly ok.

 

the game transformed into an arpg hack n slash a long time ago. It's a pretty good one at that

[Burnt Toast]

17 hours ago, skoryy said:

I mean, not everyone wants to spend hours sorting out their build on Mids'.  I do, but I like problem solving exercises.  "This power looks cool" or "I want to do this" is also always a valid option.

I would rather spend 15-30 mins on Mids planning than respecing even once LOL!

[Burnt Toast]

18 hours ago, Haijinx said:

I am amazed by the number of people that have all 4 leadership powers AND two travel powers. 

 

 

Actually: maneuvers, tactics, assault, vengerance.. super speed and combat jump...  can be quite useful depending on the build. 

[ZacKing]

On ‎3‎/‎27‎/‎2020 at 3:45 PM, Chris24601 said:

We DO have numbers. Let's look at them. My source is the "Homecoming Statistics: March 2020" thread in General Discussion;

 

Players have created 1,207,409 characters on Homecoming and there are 115,559 level 50 characters (of which 40,399 are fire aura brutes) if you total up the numbers from the table for number of 50s by AT.

 

That's just 9.6% of all characters created including the farming brutes that are level 50. If you exclude the likely fire-farming brutes the number drops to just 6.2% of all created characters. The number of those 50's with more than the alpha slot (vs. parked shortly after 50 because the Alt-itis is STRONG) is nowhere near 100%. Asking the people who have access to the statistics might be interesting.

 

Reasonably, the number of non-farm judgement+ incarnate characters is less than 5% of the total... right in line with the PvP community numbers back on live. The number with all six slotted with all t4s is probably less than 1%.

Wow you're completing misinterpreting the data.  that's characters, not people,  There isn't a million players.  not even anywhere near close to that.  The game didn't have anywhere near that many when it was live.    What's not included in the stats is how many of those million have been deleted or are even being played.   Now this is my own WAG, I would bet the 115k is pretty close to the actual size of the entire playerbase.  those numbers are all alts.

[0th Power]

On 3/26/2020 at 2:59 PM, Galaxy Brain said:

There a ton of options, but one I liked was the existence of Incarnate-lvl threats popping up in missions if there is an incarnate on the team, much like what we see with Void Hunters. If we adapt this tech and multiply it say, by Incarnate on the team and even by Incarnate tier this could spice things up a bit. It'd even be optional as you could unequip your incarnate powers to negate this!

I love this idea

[BrandX]

I don't usually see that many people actively going about using it non stop myself.  Also, it's a late game thing anyways.

[Parabola]

29 minutes ago, 0th Power said:

On 3/26/2020 at 7:59 PM, Galaxy Brain said:

There a ton of options, but one I liked was the existence of Incarnate-lvl threats popping up in missions if there is an incarnate on the team, much like what we see with Void Hunters. If we adapt this tech and multiply it say, by Incarnate on the team and even by Incarnate tier this could spice things up a bit. It'd even be optional as you could unequip your incarnate powers to negate this!

I love this idea

Yeah this is a neat idea. The trick would be how to prevent the new enemies from being absolutely lethal to the non-incarnate members of the team. The voids work because they are deadly to the Keldians but not that much more dangerous than regular enemies to the other members of the team. The same sort of setup would mean that incarnate characters would have to be in some way more vulnerable to these new enemies than non-incarnate characters. It would be quite fun to watch a tier 4 incarnate running like a scalded cat and having to be bailed out by the lowbies that are just tagging along most of the time. It would certainly alter team dynamics a bit - "We've got 6 incarnates on this team, we'd better recruit a couple of lowbies or we're going to get owned".

[Naraka]

1 hour ago, parabola said:

Yeah this is a neat idea. The trick would be how to prevent the new enemies from being absolutely lethal to the non-incarnate members of the team. The voids work because they are deadly to the Keldians but not that much more dangerous than regular enemies to the other members of the team. The same sort of setup would mean that incarnate characters would have to be in some way more vulnerable to these new enemies than non-incarnate characters. It would be quite fun to watch a tier 4 incarnate running like a scalded cat and having to be bailed out by the lowbies that are just tagging along most of the time. It would certainly alter team dynamics a bit - "We've got 6 incarnates on this team, we'd better recruit a couple of lowbies or we're going to get owned".

Just make them use their own NPC versions of incarnate powers when other incarnate characters are in the party.

 

Or more specifically, make the "incarnate hunter" EBs, have high invisibility that only fades after they attack with a 60ft scan radius every 15sec or so that sees who is using Alpha, Interface, Hybrid, Destiny and Lore slots.  When they get a positive scan, they then use their version.  Only when they take damage from a Judgement power do they activate their version against your team.  So, if the team splits up with the incarnates going their separate ways while the other non/lowbie/new incarnate part of the team sticks together, the incarnate hunter will scan, either get nothing or just Alpha and basically use some weaker powers.  If an incarnate team member approached one, the scan would activate whatever powers they use and they'd start activating them (starting with Destiny and then Lore).  If that incarnate team member isn't fast enough, they will be up against a mob backed by Destiny...they could open up with their Judgement to wipe them out before that but will have to eat a high accuracy Judgement themselves.

[SeraphimKensai]

I also enjoy the idea of having incarnate level threats seeded into non-incarnate content if there is an incarnate on the team.

 

We know the infrastructure to be able to do so and a there going back to void hunters. Perhaps since void hunters have been removed (against my own opinions, as I loved the Kheldian challenge play), maybe reuse them and give them new typed damage type (Incarnanite, suggestion on name for it) while having their attacks not have a positional tag, and then put a hidden auto power with a negative resistance value to Incarnanite damage. For each Incarnate power slotted that negative damage resistance could be increased.

[ZacKing]

41 minutes ago, SeraphimKensai said:

I also enjoy the idea of having incarnate level threats seeded into non-incarnate content if there is an incarnate on the team.

No thanks.  If it works anything like the stupid Kheldian stuff, teams will have quantums or incarnate stuff even if the incarnate on the team leaves and leaves an unkillable enemy for everyone.

[SeraphimKensai]

16 minutes ago, ZacKing said:

No thanks.  If it works anything like the stupid Kheldian stuff, teams will have quantums or incarnate stuff even if the incarnate on the team leaves and leaves an unkillable enemy for everyone.

If you saw my 2nd paragraph, it specifically states that the enemy, void hunters in my example would do extra damage based on having Incarnate abilities slotted, as they would have a hidden damage type debuff. That wouldn't effect the damage taken by the non Incarnate team members.

 

I wouldn't recommend having a Kheldian like tag that tagged non Incarnates (like it did for non Kheldians) to have stuff pop up when an Incarnate isn't on the team.

 

But despite my almost 60 incarnate characters, most who can carry a team of 8 through a non Incarnate TF, I do miss the chance of failure, or feeling like debuffs or buffs matter.

[Lines]

25 minutes ago, ZacKing said:

No thanks.  If it works anything like the stupid Kheldian stuff, teams will have quantums or incarnate stuff even if the incarnate on the team leaves and leaves an unkillable enemy for everyone.

I can't believe that behavior of quantums is anything other than a bug.

[ZacKing]

22 minutes ago, SeraphimKensai said:

If you saw my 2nd paragraph, it specifically states that the enemy, void hunters in my example would do extra damage based on having Incarnate abilities slotted, as they would have a hidden damage type debuff. That wouldn't effect the damage taken by the non Incarnate team members.

So what's the point of having it then?  It's just a beefed up boss or EB?  Sounds bland

[RCU7115]

21 hours ago, thunderforce said:

Also, while of course we don't want to go back to the old world where incarnates had nothing to do but grind incarnate trials, the SCORE-ism of making some things that used to be max level 44 be max level 45 (so incarnates work) means an awful lot of the late game is affected.

Issue 22 allowed you to gain incarnate xp without doing any of the incarnate trials. If you wanted to get incarnate xp playing solo you had to play in Dark Astoria. I played a lot in DA before shutdown and am happy I don't have to go back there just for incarnate xp.

[srmalloy]

3 hours ago, Lines said:

I can't believe that behavior of quantums is anything other than a bug.

...and was either sufficiently difficult to fix, or was considered by the devs to be inconsequential enough, for it not to be fixed at any time from the introduction of Kheldians through to the shutdown.

[golstat2003]

12 hours ago, parabola said:

Yeah this is a neat idea. The trick would be how to prevent the new enemies from being absolutely lethal to the non-incarnate members of the team. The voids work because they are deadly to the Keldians but not that much more dangerous than regular enemies to the other members of the team. The same sort of setup would mean that incarnate characters would have to be in some way more vulnerable to these new enemies than non-incarnate characters. It would be quite fun to watch a tier 4 incarnate running like a scalded cat and having to be bailed out by the lowbies that are just tagging along most of the time. It would certainly alter team dynamics a bit - "We've got 6 incarnates on this team, we'd better recruit a couple of lowbies or we're going to get owned".

As a Kheld I never really found them that hard to deal with. I simply always killed them before they killed me. But that requires paying attention and using binds to target them as a Kheld. Something a lot of folks never did on live. (or now)

[Lines]

9 hours ago, srmalloy said:

...and was either sufficiently difficult to fix, or was considered by the devs to be inconsequential enough, for it not to be fixed at any time from the introduction of Kheldians through to the shutdown.

Being ignored by devs is kinda the Kheldians' whole schtick.

[Ruin Mage]

I have a huge disdain for threads like this, but its always interesting to read the replies.

 

I'm of the mind that people need to temper their expectations/wants/desires.

Game aint changing in any significant way any time soon or perhaps ever.

[Noyjitat]

No, no and NO! You don't want incarnates? Then instead of restricting everyones gameplay that you don't like request a new difficulty option that disables incarnate powers just like when you set a timer for a tf or when you increase your difficulty to +4. Don't nerf incarnates.