Discussion: Disabling XP No Longer Increases Influence

[Saikochoro]

30 minutes ago, TigerWild said:

Ok, time to put it back the way it was.   Listening to whiners and complainers about how they don't like what some are doing that they are too lazy to do is unfair.  Why ruin our fun for a few .  This game has come back, hallelujah ,  but the game is COH, not City of Marketplace. 

Anyway, undo the nerf and make the majority happy again, my two cents, or 100 Inf 😀

We don’t know how the majority feels about the change as the majority of players don’t express their opinion on the forums. Even if we just go with those who have posted an opinion In this thread it’s still not a majority. 
 

The biggest whiners and complainers are those that are butthurt over the change and lash out at those using the market when they aren’t relevant to the nerf in the first place.
 

It’s like when my mom would get pissed at my sister and then whack me over the head. Of course I would say, “what the hell was that for?!”  The answer, “you were closer.”  The whole idea that the market/conversion process is somehow unfair, or in need of nerfing because farming was nerfed, is every bit as illogical. 

[tidge]

2 hours ago, TigerWild said:

Ok, time to put it back the way it was.   Listening to whiners and complainers about how they don't like what some are doing that they are too lazy to do is unfair.  Why ruin our fun for a few .  This game has come back, hallelujah ,  but the game is COH, not City of Marketplace. 

Anyway, undo the nerf and make the majority happy again, my two cents, or 100 Inf 😀

[Myrmidon]

11 hours ago, Yomo Kimyata said:

I find it extremely probable that what some people consider exploits and black magic are actually a rudimentary awareness of how the AH system works.  It's not rocket surgery people!  If you don't understand, feel free to ask.

 

I'd even argue that the "last 5" bug isn't an exploit, since it affects everyone equally and there is no way to directly and solely benefit from it.  It does make it harder to interpret the available information, and that's a shame.  False information shouldn't be distributed, but good luck getting people content by telling them over and over again that the last 5 might be a bunch of lies.

 

[Robotech_Master]

On 3/31/2020 at 10:28 AM, Ukase said:

Anecdotally, converting/flipping surpasses all. The only issues preventing folks from making billions is the start-up inf required. (or converters/merits which can be converted into adequate inf easily enough) 

Although, the only reason converting/flipping surpasses all is that other people have the money to spend on all those things we converted and flipped. After all, we couldn't turn thousands of Inf into millions of Inf without all that extra Inf pouring into the market from somewhere. Our converting habit is actually being financed by all the people whose preferred moneymaking method is grinding farms.

 

I'm still waiting to see what the long-term effects of this are going to be on the market. I suspect this is going to reduce prices at least by a bit, gradually, as the farmers have less money they're willing to spend. It used to be that all the LotG recharges I listed for ~6.1 million Inf would sell at 6.5 to 7 million or more as soon as I listed them. Now they're taking a while longer, and I do seem to see more of them selling at 6 million than I used to, but they do still sell within a few hours. In the long run, this will probably mean that we conversion marketers make less profit, too.

[Obus Form]

1 hour ago, Robotech_Master said:

 In the long run, this will probably mean that we conversion marketers make less profit, too.

100% that's the point Jimmy made, to reduce the income gap between new and veteran players such that new players can gear themselves faster I.E. reduce the amount of time new players require to fully IO. 

 

Farmers makes less money + more people join marketeering instead of farming --> prices reduce --> new (all) players find lower prices in /AH

Edited April 22, 2020 by Obus Form

[Yomo Kimyata]

7 hours ago, Robotech_Master said:

Although, the only reason converting/flipping surpasses all is that other people have the money to spend on all those things we converted and flipped. After all, we couldn't turn thousands of Inf into millions of Inf without all that extra Inf pouring into the market from somewhere. Our converting habit is actually being financed by all the people whose preferred moneymaking method is grinding farms.

 

I'm still waiting to see what the long-term effects of this are going to be on the market. I suspect this is going to reduce prices at least by a bit, gradually, as the farmers have less money they're willing to spend. It used to be that all the LotG recharges I listed for ~6.1 million Inf would sell at 6.5 to 7 million or more as soon as I listed them. Now they're taking a while longer, and I do seem to see more of them selling at 6 million than I used to, but they do still sell within a few hours. In the long run, this will probably mean that we conversion marketers make less profit, too.

When push comes to shove, unless you are selling to an end user, it's just a game of musical chairs.  Demand for finished goods is what drives this engine, and when/if everyone gets what they need, then the music stops.  But I don't see it stopping today.

5 hours ago, Obus Form said:

100% that's the point Jimmy made, to reduce the income gap between new and veteran players such that new players can gear themselves faster I.E. reduce the amount of time new players require to fully IO. 

 

Farmers makes less money + more people join marketeering instead of farming --> prices reduce --> new (all) players find lower prices in /AH

I'm sure that almost everyone would be happy if more people learned how to use the AH effectively.

[Lockpick]

6 hours ago, Obus Form said:

100% that's the point Jimmy made, to reduce the income gap between new and veteran players such that new players can gear themselves faster I.E. reduce the amount of time new players require to fully IO. 

 

Farmers makes less money + more people join marketeering instead of farming --> prices reduce --> new (all) players find lower prices in /AH

 

I think it is not just about the income gap between new and veteran players, although that is definitely a key point.  I believe it is also to rationalize the influence generation gap between farmers and non-farmers.  Non-farmers (whether new or veteran) play normal content and they generate much less influence than farmers.  Farmers generate tons of influence and drive up prices, which results in non-farmers having a harder time buying IOs. 

 

The 2 groups that have tons of influence are farmers and marketeers.  I don't count marketeers in the above point about generating influence, because marketeers move around influence.  They don't generate it.

 

I would guess those 2 groups are the minority of players and most players just play the game.  I believe the intent of the devs is to make sure that the majority of players can afford to buy what they want.  This change will likely eventually result in lower prices, which aligns with the devs intent.

 

Hmm, after re-reding your post I feel like I am saying the exact same thing you said, but since I have already typed it up I might as well hit submit.

[tidge]

10 minutes ago, Lockpick said:

 

The 2 groups that have tons of influence are farmers and marketeers.  I don't count marketeers in the above point about generating influence, because marketeers move around influence.  They don't generate it.

 

I would guess those 2 groups are the minority of players and most players just play the game.

On 3/2/2020 at 5:34 PM, Cipher said:

Brute

 

 

 

 

 

This doesn't reflect players but characters, but I think it is illustrative of how much raw inf *could be* pumped into the economy via farming.

 

 

[MunkiLord]

People keep bringing up lower prices, but is that the goal or even very realistic? I was under the impression that the goal was to slow inflation so prices go up slower at a slower rate. 

[SwitchFade]

WRONG.

 

So wrong!

 

The goal is and has ALWAYS BEEN.....

 

To nerf Regen.

 

Do it. Nerf.

[Robotech_Master]

2 hours ago, Lockpick said:

 

The 2 groups that have tons of influence are farmers and marketeers.  I don't count marketeers in the above point about generating influence, because marketeers move around influence.  They don't generate it.

Not only do we marketeers move it around, you could also say that we actually take it out of the economy, at least temporarily, unless we spend it as fast as we make it. After all, any Inf we save up stays out of circulation until we spend it or give it away, after all. 

[skoryy]

17 hours ago, TigerWild said:

Ok, time to put it back the way it was. 

You joined nine days after the patch landed, chief.

 

[ivanhedgehog]

44 minutes ago, Robotech_Master said:

Not only do we marketeers move it around, you could also say that we actually take it out of the economy, at least temporarily, unless we spend it as fast as we make it. After all, any Inf we save up stays out of circulation until we spend it or give it away, after all. 

You can say that about everyone. inf in the bank isnt affecting the economy. It is static, no matter if you are a farmer, marketeer or roleplayer. Players with huge accounts that see that their bid for 6 mill for that LOTG isnt hitting, raise it to 7, then 8 and are fine with paying 2 mill more than the going rate are what drives up prices. The borked purchase history doesnt help one bit with this either. I dont see any exploits, but there sure could be some improvements in the AH.

 

edit: and the oops I put one too many zeros in that bid..ouch I am pretty sure most of us have done this a time or 2.

Edited April 22, 2020 by ivanhedgehog

[MunkiLord]

I think the AH needs almost an entire UI overhaul, but I recognize that is likely a massive amount of work. 

[Rathulfr]

18 hours ago, TigerWild said:

Ok, time to put it back the way it was.   Listening to whiners and complainers about how they don't like what some are doing that they are too lazy to do is unfair.  Why ruin our fun for a few .  This game has come back, hallelujah ,  but the game is COH, not City of Marketplace. 

Anyway, undo the nerf and make the majority happy again, my two cents, or 100 Inf 😀

/jranger

[QuiJon]

 

 

Cutting off the extra influe

6 hours ago, Lockpick said:

I think it is not just about the income gap between new and veteran players, although that is definitely a key point.  I believe it is also to rationalize the influence generation gap between farmers and non-farmers.  Non-farmers (whether new or veteran) play normal content and they generate much less influence than farmers.  Farmers generate tons of influence and drive up prices, which results in non-farmers having a harder time buying IOs.

I would not disagree with this. However changing the mode by which farmers make money to control the playing experience of those that play other ways is unfair to the farmers. 

First of all, those that play the "game" earn other rewards also. They earn merits off missions and TFs. 100 merits easily makes that player 27+million influence if they buy converters and sell them. Or can give them even more if they use those converters to make much of what they need of the more expensive IOs rather then turning to the AH to begin with. 

But even so, it would seem to me that costs would be controlled if rather then hurting influence creation they simply lowered the "game" cost of certain items. Make PVP and Purples drop more frequently. Maybe lower the super pack prices about 25 percent, lower the merit purchase prices make like Orange recipes cost 30 merits, PVP 40, and purples, ATOs, and Winters 50. And heck maybe even increase the bonus influence you earn from a TF or mission completion. 

The over all theme has seemed to be that this was needed to control price creeping. However we know it wont do that. It really doesn't matter how many billions I have sitting around if it means I can price another player off the AH, and we already know many players that farm or market can do that all day everyday. However if prices stayed low or went down because the value of the items was diminished by way of lowering their costs by other means of obtaining them then from farming or AH, then their perceived value on the AH also goes down. 2 Tfs earning a purple drop is not a bad deal or rate of earning a drop. Maybe 3 ATOs from those 2 TFs...… Why spend 25 million for a winter or purple drop if you can just go to a hami raid and earn one or two for an hour of work? That is how you lower the prices and control inflation. You lower the perceived value. 

[Obus Form]

2 hours ago, Rathulfr said:

/jranger

Is there a /jranger for to say "yes"?

 

/jyes?

[MunkiLord]

10 minutes ago, Obus Form said:

Is there a /jranger for to say "yes"?

 

/jyes?

/jranger! There is not a /jranger to say yes. That would be disrespectful to the legend and his sacrifice in the form of a forum ban.

[Yomo Kimyata]

17 minutes ago, QuiJon said:

 

 

Cutting off the extra influe

I would not disagree with this. However changing the mode by which farmers make money to control the playing experience of those that play other ways is unfair to the farmers. 

First of all, those that play the "game" earn other rewards also. They earn merits off missions and TFs. 100 merits easily makes that player 27+million influence if they buy converters and sell them. Or can give them even more if they use those converters to make much of what they need of the more expensive IOs rather then turning to the AH to begin with. 

But even so, it would seem to me that costs would be controlled if rather then hurting influence creation they simply lowered the "game" cost of certain items. Make PVP and Purples drop more frequently. Maybe lower the super pack prices about 25 percent, lower the merit purchase prices make like Orange recipes cost 30 merits, PVP 40, and purples, ATOs, and Winters 50. And heck maybe even increase the bonus influence you earn from a TF or mission completion. 

The over all theme has seemed to be that this was needed to control price creeping. However we know it wont do that. It really doesn't matter how many billions I have sitting around if it means I can price another player off the AH, and we already know many players that farm or market can do that all day everyday. However if prices stayed low or went down because the value of the items was diminished by way of lowering their costs by other means of obtaining them then from farming or AH, then their perceived value on the AH also goes down. 2 Tfs earning a purple drop is not a bad deal or rate of earning a drop. Maybe 3 ATOs from those 2 TFs...… Why spend 25 million for a winter or purple drop if you can just go to a hami raid and earn one or two for an hour of work? That is how you lower the prices and control inflation. You lower the perceived value. 

I can get behind this post of yours, not because I agree with it, but because it is clearly an opinion, and not one that is presented as fact.

 

I happen to completely disagree, since I think that currently the most valuable items in the game are currently way too cheap in terms of time or inf or merits or whatever.  But that's my opinion.  I like the idea of progression and working towards rewards rather than having everything given to me.  Some people differ, and that's ok.

 

Aesthetically, I like the idea that someone running from 1-50 doing story arcs and TFs could "earn" enough in merits or inf or random drops to mostly build out their "ultimate" build.  Call it 1,000 merits and a few hundred mm inf.  I think that's casual enough, and it's not forcing people to play as Hawkeye when they want to be Thor.

[Grouchybeast]

20 minutes ago, Yomo Kimyata said:

Aesthetically, I like the idea that someone running from 1-50 doing story arcs and TFs could "earn" enough in merits or inf or random drops to mostly build out their "ultimate" build.  Call it 1,000 merits and a few hundred mm inf.  I think that's casual enough, and it's not forcing people to play as Hawkeye when they want to be Thor.

I largely agree, but I also think that it would be reasonable for a character to need to play at 50 for a while, also, if they want to get the very shiniest of top-end builds.

[TigerWild]

10 hours ago, skoryy said:

You joined nine days after the patch landed, chief.

 

New Alt, wise guy

[Shred Monkey]

I'm so disappointed.  You people promised us that this was the end of the world.  Prices will go go crazy high.  You won't be able to get recipes anymore.  The supply will dry up, etc.  The game will be broken forever.  DOOM!!!!!!!!

 

Well here we are, about 4 weeks in.   Other than the fact that my level 50s are gaining levels again, I can't say I'd even notice there was a change.

 

It reminds of Y2K.  The clock struck midnight and we're all left standing around saying, "where's Jesus?"  

 

 

 

 

 

[Rathulfr]

2 hours ago, TigerWild said:

New Alt, wise guy

You do know that you don't have to create a new forum account for every alt, right? 😆

[EmmySky]

1 hour ago, Shred Monkey said:

I'm so disappointed.  You people promised us that this was the end of the world.  Prices will go go crazy high.  You won't be able to get recipes anymore.  The supply will dry up, etc.  The game will be broken forever.  DOOM!!!!!!!!

 

Well here we are, about 4 weeks in.   Other than the fact that my level 50s are gaining levels again, I can't say I'd even notice there was a change.

 

It reminds of Y2K.  The clock struck midnight and we're all left standing around saying, "where's Jesus?"  

 

 

 

 

 

I was kinda lookin' forward to a lil DOOM, 2020 has been boring 😝

[Obus Form]

1 hour ago, EmmySky said:

I was kinda lookin' forward to a lil DOOM, 2020 has been boring 😝

2020 Doom so far: WWIII tweet, Australia fires, Covid-19, COH Farming Unilaterial Korrection Reductions (FUKRs)