Purples should be removed from the AH

[ArchVileTerror]

People get riled up at vehemently defended positions which run contrary to established understanding.

Mind you, I'm not saying one way or the other, in this scenario, if there's a "correct" side and a "wrong" side.  (but my previous posts in this thread might imply my bias)

[ShardWarrior]

2 hours ago, Dz131 said:

There are far more MMOs with the system I proposed (Soulbound/Account bound item).  It obviously is the more successful system. 

Yes, and other games also have auction houses to sell stuff.  It is how the in-game economies work.  You are neglecting that some incarnate components are account bound here too.

[BrandX]

4 hours ago, Dz131 said:

It gives the game longevity. This is the exact lesson Diablo 3 learned with the auction house.  People get bored quickly when you can buy the best loot and there's nothing to strive for, hence the constant calls for more content.  As of now the best way to gear up in CoX isn't to play the character, it's to roll a farmer and buy everything you need.  I think this is the opposite of the way the game should work.  

 

As someone with multiple purples, I can tell you, those are things I generally wait for drops or buy with merits, I have yet to buy them on the AH.  The AH prices are up there.  I can use that amount of influence on multiple other things, while waiting to get the purples.

[tidge]

I am beginning to miss the 'nerf Brutes' suggestion threads.

Edited April 16, 2020 by tidge

[ShardWarrior]

1 hour ago, Bentley Berkeley said:

First off depending entirely on pure RNG to finish a character is not an accomplishment. Its just another form of virtual gambling.

Not to mention mind numbingly tedious, repetitive and incredibly boring.  This is a major reason for leaving games like WoW.  I will never forget running Scholomance 157 times and never getting the drop I needed to complete a set.

[Naraka]

47 minutes ago, macskull said:

I don't think the poster you're replying to is one of those people.

On the contrary, I believe he is in that same group that overreact.

[Rathulfr]

1 hour ago, Naraka said:

And the bolded underlined section is where you need to stop.

 

I am not arguing for anything.  At best, you could say I'm just a neutral individual who sees the changes in the vacuum it's in and responding as such.  I don't have to prove anything, I just have to explain the truths.  If a purple drops that you don't want and the game dictated that you cannot sell it but you can convert it, then that is what you do with it.  You have the option to delete it as well as keep it and use it on an alt if they are account bound.

 

I feel it's good to have some neutrality when people are making suggestions on several principles:

1. The likelihood of a suggestion going through is little not none so talking about stuff is harmless.
2. When you start picking sides, you get defensive and make irrational arguments ("What do I do with purples I don't want? d3LeTe TH3m!?!?"...that's an irrational response.  "I should always be able to do exactly what I want to do without constraints all the time!!" is also irrational).
3. It's possible you could learn something or come up with an even better idea if you actually consider things rather than merely reject things.

I'm not arguing for or against anything but a lot of you people are just way to triggered to think straight.

 

You know, I do believe I owe you an apology, then.  I thought you were rallying to support the OP, and it appears that I am mistaken.  If all you're doing is relaying what the rational choices would be if the alternatives were taken away -- and no more than that -- then I have no reason to complain about your replies, or to accuse you of something that I inferred, but you didn't actually say (the whole "forcing" thing).  Please forgive me for this carelessness.  I do apologize for that.

 

Edited April 16, 2020 by Rathulfr

[Rathulfr]

3 minutes ago, tidge said:

I am beginning to miss the 'nerf Brutes' suggestion threads.

And just when I thought the "Nerf Hasten" threads were the worst, too.

[Greycat]

We need something above purples.

 

Plaids? Or should we call them Tartans?

 

Hey, we could combine that with the guy that wants the sonic blast IOs. Bagpipes Lament. Not only does it give you even more power, but changes the sound effects on all Sonic powers to bagpipes.

 

Maybe ultraviolets. Slot too many sets and your character starts turning an unhealthy red and getting a debuff. Perhaps even gains a flames aura. I mean, it'd be one heck of  a tan.

[ShardWarrior]

20 minutes ago, Rathulfr said:

And just when I thought the "Nerf Hasten" threads were the worst, too.

Thing is, the OP is proceeding from a false premise in that purple sets are the end all be all must haves for every build.  To be quite honest, there are other IO sets which have far more utility and desirable stats than any purple set.  I am always selling purple sets on the AH even if my character could use them.  I have over 20 level 50s now and not one of them has a purple set slotted.  They just are not needed.  I personally would not even categorize them as nice to haves. 

[tidge]

1 hour ago, ShardWarrior said:

Thing is, the OP is proceeding from a false premise in that purple sets are the end all be all must haves for every build.  To be quite honest, there are other IO sets which have far more utility and desirable stats than any purple set.  I am always selling purple sets on the AH even if my character could use them.  I have over 20 level 50s now and not one of them has a purple set slotted.  They just are not needed.  I personally would not even categorize them as nice to haves. 

This is a good point. The Purple set bonuses aren't that imaginative/different (nearly identical set bonuses, by design) with the main difference usually being a flavorful proc as the 6th piece. I'll admit that I try to find good fits between low-level powers and ATO/PvP/Purple sets just for low level flashbacks/TFs, but sometimes the set bonuses I want are in the less-desired sets. Obviously the Purple sets are generally the key to high Global Recharge and certain resists... is that what this is all about?

[thunderforce]

6 hours ago, Dz131 said:

It gives the game longevity. This is the exact lesson Diablo 3 learned with the auction house.  People get bored quickly when you can buy the best loot and there's nothing to strive for, hence the constant calls for more content.

For some of us, it's been well over a decade (off and on) and we're not bored. We didn't get bored when getting to 50 was the end in terms of character improvement; we went back to Outbreak, because the game offers an extremely wide variety of meaningfully distinct powerset combinations. How quickly is "quickly"?

 

Paid for games are forced to artificially extend longevity by putting speedbumps in the way. A completely free game can just let people play as much as they want to.

[AerialAssault]

Me: "Aw man, I have this Armageddon, but I wanted a Ragnarok."

Person: "Hey, I have a Ragnarok and I need an Armageddon! Let's tra-"

Dz131 runs in, kicking me in the gonads and stealing my purple: "you fool, you idiot. Absolute blathering buffoon! You can't just trade a purple! You must work for it! Bleed for it! Earn it!!! When will you learn??"

 

[AngriestGhost]

8 hours ago, Dz131 said:

Like I said before, if the players don't like the idea, that fine.  But there's no arguing it is a valid way to add longevity to a game.  The highest power items and skills are the most scarce and require the most time investment, which in turn leads to a feeling of accomplishment when you reach it.  This is literally the system in pretty much every RPG, let alone MMORPGS. 

 

Right now the highest level items are too easily obtained in CoX.

In other MMOs the grind for gear is quite different though.  Most of what you acquire mid-level is discarded by the end.  In CoX there are recipes that are quite useful that don't drop in later levels but are used in end game builds (Numina's +recovery) or those that are just as valuable from an early drop as a later (LotG +recharge).  Some sets, for instance Basilisk's Gaze, are nearly as desirable as their purple counter part.  If very rare recipes became harder to acquire many people would just forego using them.  If you look at the monthly numbers a lot of people already pass on the end game in favor of experimenting with new alts and new concepts.

[DSorrow]

10 hours ago, Dz131 said:

  As of now the best way to gear up in CoX isn't to play the character, it's to roll a farmer and buy everything you need.

And how exactly would "roll a farmer and farm everything you need" be better in a scenario with account bound purples? You're still not playing your character, but what's worse is that you're not playing it for an undetermined amount of time because now you're at the mercy of RNG instead of being able to buy what you need at pretty deterministic prices.

 

As for the suggestion itself, it's a /jranger for me. I don't think slowing things down with unnecessary RNG adds longevity, it just takes away player agency and adds frustration. Finally, I want to note that farming isn't the only efficient way to get geared up characters. I have 8 fully kitted out 50s and I haven't spent a minute in a farm on Homecoming. Having options such as marketeering and merits in addition to farming is great and I don't want to implement any suggestions that sabotage my preferred ways of gearing up.

[Haijinx]

To do this you would need raid bosses that dropped purples so people had a reasonable chance of getting one for x amount of effort.  

 

Doesn't sound like COH

[Obus Form]

12 hours ago, Yomo Kimyata said:

I think you should have to arm wrestle Back Alley Brawler for 'em.

Don't worry you'll win... BABs is a bit... rusty

[Williwaw]

11 hours ago, Dz131 said:

That's fine, it's just an idea to give the game longevity, and allows gearing up a character feel like more of a accomplishment.  

For you, maybe.  For me it'd make it feel like a slog and encourage me to *stop* playing.

 

Because I would not enjoy trying to purple out a character by relying solely on random drops.  After spending all day running missions on a level 50 (which I generally don't play much to begin with): "Oh, I finally got a purple!  ... it's the hold set and I need the melee set.  Can't even give it to my other characters.  I guess I gotta dump it."   (A few days later) "Oh, I got a second purple!  ... it's the ranged set.  Gotta dump it!"  (repeat every few days ad nauseum)

 

Even if I get the right set, I can't slot it, because my stats will go down until I get all six pieces.  And with each piece I get, the odds of getting another piece of the set I don't already have drop more and more.

 

That is not fun for me.  That does not "add longevity" for me.  That makes me want to play a different character, or even a different game entirely.

 

Don't assume everyone thinks like you.

[Fire Chief]

I would like to rename them purple nurples this could open up soooo many more things...

 

purple nurple

[Bionic_Flea]

2 hours ago, DSorrow said:

And how exactly would "roll a farmer and farm everything you need" be better in a scenario with account bound purples? You're still not playing your character, but what's worse is that you're not playing it for an undetermined amount of time because now you're at the mercy of RNG instead of being able to buy what you need at pretty deterministic prices.

I came back to make this statement but DSorrow beat me to it.

 

Having account-bound items will not diminish farming.  People want what they want and they want it now!  If they could not buy on the /AH they would farm merits for the deterministic purchase or farm more AE to get more drops that could be converted or shared with an alt.

[PSLAnimal]

15 hours ago, Dz131 said:

The only way to get them should be through drops.  

/jranger

[Parabola]

Wow, missed all the fun here. Yeah, no thanks op, this would be a terrible idea.

 

It might work better in a game where you were expected to play a very limited number of characters and the end game was 'the game'. CoH isn't that game. I have over 50 alts, 5 at level 50 and I only play one of those with any regularity. I very rarely see purple drops but that doesn't matter because I have the funds to buy what I need. I'd actually like to go totally the other way and make them more available. Perhaps give them a very small chance to drop at lower levels.

[tidge]

6 hours ago, AngriestGhost said:

In other MMOs the grind for gear is quite different though.  Most of what you acquire mid-level is discarded by the end.  In CoX there are recipes that are quite useful that don't drop in later levels but are used in end game builds (Numina's +recovery) or those that are just as valuable from an early drop as a later (LotG +recharge).  Some sets, for instance Basilisk's Gaze, are nearly as desirable as their purple counter part.  If very rare recipes became harder to acquire many people would just forego using them.  If you look at the monthly numbers a lot of people already pass on the end game in favor of experimenting with new alts and new concepts.

 

There are several pieces of wisdom in the above quote. I especially like that it is explicitly and succinctly explaining the value of the AH as a mechanism for distributing drops across all levels of play. There is no CoX variant where it is preferable to allow AH transactions for some recipe drops but not others.

 

The closest current in-game example of the OP proposal is the incarnate 'salvage', but even with those drops being character/account bound (depending on type) the fact that those are explicitly only useful for incarnate-level characters AND that the drop rate / low-bar of generating the specific salvage necessary means that the situation with incarnate salvage is nothing like the situation with AH recipes/IOs.

 

[Alchemystic]

12 hours ago, GM Widower said:

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

Anyway, please be kind to those who disagree with you.

I ain't taking sides but golly gee this these threads must be hot from all the flame that gets thrown around. 🔥

[Obus Form]

Diablo 3: Account bound, random drops

OP you cite Diablo 3.  But every class and every spec in Diablo 3 is a DPS AOE-damaging class that essentially farms itself by running Torment 13 maps for crafting mats, and rifts for end-game stats on drops. Account-bound purples essentially means low DPS classes in COH will, outside of extremely lucky RNG, be forced to team themselves with Brutes/Scrappers capable of fast clear times on level 50 +4x8 AE farm maps.  It would possibly lead to people selling +4x8 farm maps, which detracts from the entire "a City of Heroes" game idea.

 

If Purples dropped were randomized (and still account bound), to maximize your chances of receiving the purple you want, you would have to Brute force Spines/Fire +4x8 AE maps hoping RNGesus drops your 1 purple to complete your Controller's build, which is 1/60 (0.016%) on a very rare class of IOs.  You could potentially never finish your build.  Someone previously mentioned, this forces play time on a toon that you don't want to play, but are forced to play to maximize your chances of winning the Purple lottery for the toon you actually want to play.  

 

You cite game longevity, but Diablo 3's intial release and Dev data cited player frustration that legendary drops, which were extremely rare, were randomized and an unreliable source of gear upgrade when a legendary/set item was found.  This led players to believe that Diablo 3 Devs were forcing end-game players to buy via the Auction House.

 

Diablo 3: Tailored drops

If you cite Diablo 3's drop-rate mechanic tailoring 90% of drops to be usable for that class, that doesn't work in COH because each AT has powers that can use IOs normally used for other ATs.  For example, the melee focused Scrapper may want to 5 or 6 slot Apocalypse (the Purple ranged damage IO set) in their Epic Power Pool, the ranged focused Blaster may want to 5 or 6 slot Hecatomb (the Purple melee damage IO set) into their melee damage powers, and the Controller may not want to use Absolute Amazement (the Purple stun IO set) in any of their stun powers.  You can't tailor Purple drops in COH Diablo 3 style because of the nature of IO slotting.

 

 

Current HomeComing Devs

The Devs currently aim to minimize the influence gap between new players and veteran players of COH Homecoming, which is tantamount to diminishing the amount of play-time required for new players to fully IO (including ATOs, Winters, Purples) themselves.  Account binding Purples doesn't minimize that time gap, it exacerbates it. Now, new players will say "Oh God, I have to farm for how long to potentially get this drop?".  If you ever played Ragnarok online, and if you recall the drop rates 0.05% or 0.03% for extremely rare cards (Ghost Ring card, Golden Thief Bug card, etc) the grind was unreal for new players.  Feast or Famine.