The Tank Gods. . .

[Doomguide2005]

2 hours ago, Infinitum said:

Also focused accuracy.

And Focused Senses, Coak of Darkness, and Glacial Armor (as well as Danger Sense which is not a tanker power as far as I know)

[ninja surprise]

On 8/13/2020 at 9:31 AM, Werner said:

All I play these days is my Dark Armor/Martial Arts. But I'm working on a build for a Shield Defense/Martial Arts, and testing on beta, and it's looking even better to me. Also fiddling with Invulnerability/Martial Arts, which looks even more survivable, but with less damage output. I... might have a thing for Martial Arts on Tankers.

Wait, so Tanker MA's Storm Kick give +10% Def to all, but the Scrapper version doesn't? Dang it now I have to re-roll a Scrapper...

[CaptainLupis]

7 hours ago, Infinitum said:

Not a fan I take it?  lol

 

Doesnt cost a enh slot, adds to to hit and never get blinded again.

 

Endurance?  Yeah you can outbuild that too.

 

Also provides to hit debuff resistance.

For me, I usually have maneuvers anyway, so tactics makes more sense. It has less of an end. cost, has some fear res and, if you team a lot, slotting the gaussians chance for build up in it has a much better proc rate than if you slot it in FA because it has a chance to proc for everyone it hits, not just off of you like FA does.

 

On FAs side it does have the tohit debuff res, but the other benefits of tactics generally outweigh that for me.

[ironjoe]

Currently My toughest tanks in descending order are:

Shield Defense - Super Strength

Electric - Electric

Rad - Rad

Dark - Dark

Fire - Fire

 

All are variations of Iron Joe. The Rad and Dark are only 90% enhanced out with sets so some of that might change with some additional bonuses. Oh and the Fire tank is unkillable with Fire and/or S/L enemies but others expose some of the holes there.

[Infinitum]

2 hours ago, CaptainLupis said:

For me, I usually have maneuvers anyway, so tactics makes more sense. It has less of an end. cost, has some fear res and, if you team a lot, slotting the gaussians chance for build up in it has a much better proc rate than if you slot it in FA because it has a chance to proc for everyone it hits, not just off of you like FA does.

 

On FAs side it does have the tohit debuff res, but the other benefits of tactics generally outweigh that for me.

I normally slot the Gaussian in build up, or invincibility onnthe Invuls.

 

I never can talk myself into the leadership pool. 

Combat jumping is a must.

 

personal preference fly is a must - then the LotG mules hover and AB. 

 

Tough and weave outweigh maneuvers in terms of benefit gained IMO,

 

that leaves hasten - I have come close a few times to dropping hasten for maneuvers, and may still revisit that at some point, cause I usually dont care about recharge on my tanks.

 

In fact I may go visit this notion now. Haha.

[Haijinx]

8 hours ago, ninja surprise said:

Wait, so Tanker MA's Storm Kick give +10% Def to all, but the Scrapper version doesn't? Dang it now I have to re-roll a Scrapper...

MA is still strongest on scrappers

[CaptainLupis]

3 hours ago, Infinitum said:

I normally slot the Gaussian in build up, or invincibility onnthe Invuls.

 

I never can talk myself into the leadership pool. 

Combat jumping is a must.

 

personal preference fly is a must - then the LotG mules hover and AB. 

 

Tough and weave outweigh maneuvers in terms of benefit gained IMO,

 

that leaves hasten - I have come close a few times to dropping hasten for maneuvers, and may still revisit that at some point, cause I usually dont care about recharge on my tanks.

 

In fact I may go visit this notion now. Haha.

I've never had an invuln anything, so can't really comment on how well it works in invincibility, but having it in an aim or build up power is a good place for it as it has around the 90% chance to proc even with around 70% recharge slotted. It's borderline broken on a stalker with their chance for build up refresh, so many build ups! But for anyone else that plays in largish teams regularly tactics is the place to go.

 

From your choices above CJ would be the one I dropped and use the hover you are taking anyway for combat positioning. I generally use a bind to toggle between hover and fly, which works well in most circumstances.

[Sovera]

To be honest I'm fairly interested in how Invincibility interacts with Gaussian. It sounds to me like a constant stream of BUs would surpass Offensive Adaptation and even Burn.

 

I mean, yeah, it's not something for a pylon test to shine on, but if Invuln is pretty good defensively and just lacks an offensive edge, then wouldn't this be it with a chance to go off every ten seconds multiplied by all enemies in range?

[CaptainLupis]

4 minutes ago, Sovera said:

To be honest I'm fairly interested in how Invincibility interacts with Gaussian. It sounds to me like a constant stream of BUs would surpass Offensive Adaptation and even Burn.

 

I mean, yeah, it's not something for a pylon test to shine on, but if Invuln is pretty good defensively and just lacks an offensive edge, then wouldn't this be it with a chance to go off every ten seconds multiplied by all enemies in range?

I have a vague recollection of someone on these forums saying that was the case, but I don't have an invuln to test it out with myself.

[Haijinx]

4 minutes ago, Sovera said:

To be honest I'm fairly interested in how Invincibility interacts with Gaussian. It sounds to me like a constant stream of BUs would surpass Offensive Adaptation and even Burn.

 

I mean, yeah, it's not something for a pylon test to shine on, but if Invuln is pretty good defensively and just lacks an offensive edge, then wouldn't this be it with a chance to go off every ten seconds multiplied by all enemies in range?

In another thread (I think) they mentioned it triggers based on enemies affected. 

 

Sounds like perhaps an Enemy triggered variant of how it works in Tactics 

 

It works really well in Night Widow Tactics from my personal experience (Bigger Radius).   Works fairly well in normal Tactics from my SR/SS.

[Sovera]

1 minute ago, Haijinx said:

In another thread (I think) they mentioned it triggers based on enemies affected. 

 

Sounds like perhaps an Enemy triggered variant of how it works in Tactics 

 

It works really well in Night Widow Tactics from my personal experience (Bigger Radius).   Works fairly well in normal Tactics from my SR/SS.

That's why I mentioned it not being good for pylon tests since only one enemy - the pylon - around. It's basically the reverse of slotting it in Tactics.

 

In Tactics it gives a chance for allies in range. In invincibility it gives a chance on enemies in range. If I solo or duo the effect based on enemies is a lot more interesting and I do spend more time with enemies around me than I do fighting one tough enemy.

 

It just depends on how reliable this effect is.

[CaptainLupis]

4 minutes ago, Haijinx said:

In another thread (I think) they mentioned it triggers based on enemies affected. 

 

Sounds like perhaps an Enemy triggered variant of how it works in Tactics 

 

It works really well in Night Widow Tactics from my personal experience (Bigger Radius).   Works fairly well in normal Tactics from my SR/SS.

Ah the (in)famous rad v invuln thread. Infinitum's post.

[Parabola]

2 minutes ago, Sovera said:

That's why I mentioned it not being good for pylon tests since only one enemy - the pylon - around. It's basically the reverse of slotting it in Tactics.

 

In Tactics it gives a chance for allies in range. In invincibility it gives a chance on enemies in range. If I solo or duo the effect based on enemies is a lot more interesting and I do spend more time with enemies around me than I do fighting one tough enemy.

 

It just depends on how reliable this effect is.

And you could always drag a herd of enemies to the pylon...

[Haijinx]

12 minutes ago, Sovera said:

That's why I mentioned it not being good for pylon tests since only one enemy - the pylon - around. It's basically the reverse of slotting it in Tactics.

 

In Tactics it gives a chance for allies in range. In invincibility it gives a chance on enemies in range. If I solo or duo the effect based on enemies is a lot more interesting and I do spend more time with enemies around me than I do fighting one tough enemy.

 

It just depends on how reliable this effect is.

I was thinking the same.  Especially for INV/SS which doesn't have build up.

[Sovera]

1 minute ago, Haijinx said:

I was thinking the same.  Especially for INV/SS which doesn't have build up.

Or inv/Claws that -also- doesn't have BU, and in FU Bopper mathed it at a 10% chance to go off. I don't know how much of a positive effect it would turn out to be though. 5 seconds every 10 seconds of having 80% damage is in no way bad though, even if it is not Burn (and Blazing Aura/generic damage aura). That said Invuln/Rad Melee.

 

What was the chance per enemy every 10 seconds though? Anyone remembers? 10% chance? 50%?

[Mopery]

Dark Armor/Electric Melee.

If it can't kill my tank in 8 seconds, then Dark Regen refills my health bar.

That's with 58+% melee Defense, and 90% resist to all but Energy and Toxic(which usually hit 70%+ with the ATO resist proc).

Best part is Lightning Rod for the BOOM!

[Werner]

On 8/18/2020 at 10:34 AM, Sovera said:

What was the chance per enemy every 10 seconds though? Anyone remembers? 10% chance? 50%?

8.77% per enemy every 10 seconds if I’m calculating right. A 35% damage buff (edit: 37%) with Invincibility saturated if the proc stacks, else 22% (edit: 25%, but it stacks), but big either way. More if the proc ignores the 10 target limit and you can squeeze more targets with 8 feet. Is it still 8 feet, or is it more now? Lower chance if more. I’m going to have to try this out. It sounds great.

Edited August 23, 2020 by Werner

[Sovera]

Just now, Werner said:

8.77% per enemy every 10 seconds if I’m calculating right. A 35% damage buff with Invincibility saturated if the proc stacks, else 22%, but big either way. More if the proc ignores the 10 target limit and you can squeeze more targets with 8 feet. Is it still 8 feet, or is it more now? Lower chance if more. I’m going to have to try this out. It sounds great.

We may need our resident mathmagician. I've re-read the entire Rad VS Invuln thread trying to find it but was unable.

 

Obi wan @Bopper, you are our only hope.

[ironjoe]

5 hours ago, Infinitum said:

I normally slot the Gaussian in build up, or invincibility onnthe Invuls.

 

I never can talk myself into the leadership pool. 

Combat jumping is a must.

After the tanker buffs to leadership/ect, I find it difficult to not get some leadership going.  Even though it costs more endurance I prefer maneuvers for adding a little defense to the whole team.  If I need maneuverability in mission I just toggle on ninja run.

[Werner]

1 hour ago, Werner said:

I’m going to have to try this out. It sounds great.

Admittedly not statistically significant since so few pylons, but on the Invuln/MA I’ve been testing on beta:

547 seconds with 16 monkeys

538 seconds with 8 monkeys

588 seconds in Focus Chi instead

608 seconds in Focus Chi instead

 

So putting it in Invincibility is probably better, but not exciting. Back to the Shield/MA I’ve been testing, then (327 and 304 with 8 monkeys).

 

 

[Sovera]

2 hours ago, Werner said:

Admittedly not statistically significant since so few pylons, but on the Invuln/MA I’ve been testing on beta:

547 seconds with 16 monkeys

538 seconds with 8 monkeys

588 seconds in Focus Chi instead

608 seconds in Focus Chi instead

 

So putting it in Invincibility is probably better, but not exciting. Back to the Shield/MA I’ve been testing, then (327 and 304 with 8 monkeys).

What do those numbers mean? You had more Gaussian proc uptime on Focus Chi?

 

Oh wait, I get it. You took a pylon in 547 seconds. Hory sheet, 9 minutes? That's some bad levels of bad. There go my dreams of Gaussian allowing Invuln to acquire an offensive edge.

[Bopper]

4 hours ago, Sovera said:

We may need our resident mathmagician. I've re-read the entire Rad VS Invuln thread trying to find it but was unable.

 

Obi wan @Bopper, you are our only hope.

Sorry, late to the party. It looks like the question was in regards to how likely a Gaussian will proc in Invulnerability? If so, Werner's numbers were correct.

 

Prob = 1 / 6 / (1 + 0.15 x 0.75 x8 ) = 8.772%

 

If you are saturated (10 targets), the average number of procs per 10s becomes 0.8772, which equates to an average damage buff over time to be:

0.8772 x 80% x 5.25 / 10 = 36.84%

 

That of course assumes the proc can stack, which last I tested it (long time ago), it did. If it were unable to stack, then the numbers would slightly tweak. Your probability of procing at saturation becomes:

100% - (100% - 8.772%)^10 = 60.07%

 

That would make your average damage buff over time to be:

0.6007 x 80% x 5.25/10 = 25.23%  (However I HIGHLY doubt this would be the case...it would only be if there was a stealth nerf to Gaussian I'm unaware of).

[Werner]

1 hour ago, Sovera said:

 

Oh wait, I get it. You took a pylon in 547 seconds. Hory sheet, 9 minutes? That's some bad levels of bad. There go my dreams of Gaussian allowing Invuln to acquire an offensive edge.

Yeah. You could certainly build for more damage than I did, and maybe I could consider a dual build, but I think Shield is looking like a better platform to build what I want to play, even if it’s still on the slow side. But the truly suck levels of suck was me testing out a Super Reflexes/Staff build on beta - I couldn’t even scratch the pylon. Hahahahah NO.

[Werner]

1 hour ago, Bopper said:

0.8772 x 80% x 5.25 / 10 = 36.84%

Oops, I used 5 seconds. Also rounded before I should have.

[gorram]

1 hour ago, Bopper said:

Sorry, late to the party. It looks like the question was in regards to how likely a Gaussian will proc in Invulnerability? If so, Werner's numbers were correct.

 

Prob = 1 / 6 / (1 + 0.15 x 0.75 x8 ) = 8.772%

 

If you are saturated (10 targets), the average number of procs per 10s becomes 0.8772, which equates to an average damage buff over time to be:

0.8772 x 80% x 5.25 / 10 = 36.84%

 

That of course assumes the proc can stack, which last I tested it (long time ago), it did. If it were unable to stack, then the numbers would slightly tweak. Your probability of procing at saturation becomes:

100% - (100% - 8.772%)^10 = 60.07%

 

That would make your average damage buff over time to be:

0.6007 x 80% x 5.25/10 = 25.23%  (However I HIGHLY doubt this would be the case...it would only be if there was a stealth nerf to Gaussian I'm unaware of).

It's still stacking on Live as of last night.