The Tank Gods. . .

[Sovera]

I've been thinking of trying Fire/SS for moar dakka. But the whole build feels like something I should station at level 50 and only play it at that level since its exemplaring is execrable. No Rage until 28 means no damage boost until level 23. The damage boost would at least push Burn to take up the slack until... 33 when the second AoE is available. Then it has a weak ST rotation until... 30 when Gloom can be picked.

 

On the other hand I -can- keep it to play at level 50 (or anything Citadel/Manticore and up) and use the absolutely superb exemplaring of the Fire/Claws for low level play.

[Sura]

My two mains are both Tankers: Ice/Elec and WP/Ice.  Both are (IMO) under-the-radar effective builds.  No purples, no Winter's, just AT IO's and sets.  Love the playstyle and those combos.

[Gobbledigook]

Only done a couple of tests with t3 musc, t3 reactive and no assault and the best I got was about 3 mins 11seconds. But the build is more AoE orientated.  The Rage crashes are rather annoying but the procs still hit.

 

I clear content very fast and AE moon map is almost as fast as my fire brutes with a very good build.

 

I'd roll a scrapper or MM or VEAT if I wanted to take out pylons though.

 

I know some Tankers have hit 2 mins on pylon but they built specifically for it. I just built for general content.

Edited August 21, 2020 by Gobbledegook

[Haijinx]

Would you not be at the damage Cap with 2xRage+2xGuassian's typically?

 

I'm more interested in the idea from a sort of esoteric principle

 

Invulnerability controlling when Guassian's fires seems .. elegant somehow.  

Sort of like Rage being up all the time compared to build-up does.

Skipping the fighting pool ..

 

and so on. 

 

I would probably build it for damage to the extent it could be though.  Inv is more than tough enough, I imagine just the set bonuses that come out of having Purples, ATOs, etc will make it nigh unkillable.   The main goal would be perma-hasten in order to feed double-rage. 

 

I don't really care about pylon times.  I care about run off ahead at 54x8 and smash up mobs times.

Enough Purples should take care of the Exemplar thing. 

[skoryy]

My WP/MA is nigh indestructible, but he's not the wrecking ball that my Rad/StJ is.

[Sir Myshkin]

20 hours ago, Infinitum said:

Look at the resistance, I have never been feared.

I was being facetious. Your resistance to Fear does not prevent you from being inflicted, it just shortens the duration. I have 127.5% resistance to fear in my Rad/SS/Soul, it doesn't stop me from having a wee bit of a cower from time to time.

 

2 hours ago, Haijinx said:

Would you not be at the damage Cap with 2xRage+2xGuassian's typically?

Getting a double proc on Gaussian's would be rather tricky for anything not-a-Stalker. Rage is 80% a hit, and Gaussian's is 80% a hit (for Tankers), so even in the realm of actually somehow getting it doubled, 320%, still 80% shy of cap. I do use Decimation in Gloom, so that I have seen trigger at prime times to get a good bump, and then Assault Hybrid Core has a static 10%, and can grant up to an additional 75%. Used on Rad with Meltdown and Adrenal Booster gets me the ability to keep another 30% cycled up.

 

Realistic window is consistent 200% (80+80+30+10) with spikes on Gaussian's and Decimation for another 80-160% if they occur at the same time, and then 2:00 of glory during Hybrid.

 

2 hours ago, Haijinx said:

Skipping the fighting pool ..

But... but... then you wouldn't have any attacks [worried face] No Boxing or Cross Punch?

 

2 hours ago, Haijinx said:

I don't really care about pylon times.  I care about run off ahead at 54x8 and smash up mobs times.

gives two thumbs up 👍👍

 

[Infinitum]

20 hours ago, Infinitum said:

 

That is with the front loaded Melee Core - Always on effects but without the toggled resistance effects.

 

In the amount of time putting this together looking at that build i figured out a way to cap negative.  haha  I could cap Psi also but at too great of a cost IMO, it will cap anyway with MotT 2 stacked.

 

7 minutes ago, Sir Myshkin said:

I was being facetious. Your resistance to Fear does not prevent you from being inflicted, it just shortens the duration. I have 127.5% resistance to fear in my Rad/SS/Soul, it doesn't stop me from having a wee bit of a cower from time to time.

 

You missed the above post, i didnt have Melee Core numbers included.  I dont get feared.  🙂

[Sir Myshkin]

1 hour ago, Infinitum said:

You missed the above post, i didnt have Melee Core numbers included.  I dont get feared.

Eh, I didn't miss the post, it just doesn't really apply to your original comment. Even with Melee Core, that's still only 50% up time potential, and you're becoming reliant on Melee's buffs to supplement your net protection (which looks like both Res and Status at that point).

 

I could just go get a Dark Armor and do it all without Incarnates:

 

Personally I can live with the idea I might get punked with an occasional Terrorized, it keeps things interesting. If I were truly that concerned with it, it'd only be a matter of ten minutes of respec to alter my current build into an untouchable sloth. 😄

[Infinitum]

13 minutes ago, Sir Myshkin said:

Eh, I didn't miss the post, it just doesn't really apply to your original comment. Even with Melee Core, that's still only 50% up time potential, and you're becoming reliant on Melee's buffs to supplement your net protection (which looks like both Res and Status at that point).

 

I could just go get a Dark Armor and do it all without Incarnates:

 

Personally I can live with the idea I might get punked with an occasional Terrorized, it keeps things interesting. If I were truly that concerned with it, it'd only be a matter of ten minutes of respec to alter my current build into an untouchable sloth. 😄

You either dont understand situational awareness and capability, or you are choosing to ignore that to prove a point you cant prove.

 

Yeah i have a dark armor also that can do this...  Its amazing and not a sloth either.

 

 

My rad numbers do this

 

 

and that's without any incarnate increasing the res values also, so I'm not sure what your point is here. 

 

Again, the res numbers are with melee detoggled and musculature alpha - throw in assault radial and it's far from a sloth - even with melee core for added situational protection it's not a sloth.  ;-)

[Supertanker]

3 hours ago, Sir Myshkin said:

Rage is 80% a hit, and Gaussian's is 80% a hit (for Tankers), so even in the realm of actually somehow getting it doubled, 320%, still 80% shy of cap.

 

Your Enhancements count too, so assuming you have around +100% damage, the cap is more like 300%. This is another reason I don't bother with double Rage- with Assault running I'm at +175% damage, and with Musculature Core most attacks are at about +130% damage, and the Gaussian's Build Up goes off a lot when you're in the middle of a crowd. So, damage is pretty crazy already.

[Haijinx]

4 hours ago, Supertanker said:

Your Enhancements count too, so assuming you have around +100% damage, the cap is more like 300%. This is another reason I don't bother with double Rage- with Assault running I'm at +175% damage, and with Musculature Core most attacks are at about +130% damage, and the Gaussian's Build Up goes off a lot when you're in the middle of a crowd. So, damage is pretty crazy already.

The tanker cap was bumped up in the tank buff patch

[Sir Myshkin]

20 hours ago, Infinitum said:

You either dont understand situational awareness and capability, or you are choosing to ignore that to prove a point you cant prove.

Uh... what?

 

Spoiler

You:

• Claim your Radiation Armor build has never been feared because of Resistance stats, posts screen shots with values without any other confirmation of where sources come from.

Me:

• Demonstrates that resistance to terrorized does not prevent terrorized, and have similar stats, clearly uses language--as well as explicitly stating as such--that it's cool, I'm just joking around.

You:

• In between post another screen shot with additional values, explicitly state that it is with Melee Core turned on, and have the two images side by side. It is verifiable that Melee Core is turned on because it grants a static 10.72 point protection to status effects of Hold, Stunned, Sleep, Immob, Confuse, and Fear even with "0" enemies set. As such, it must be inferred by your own statement "with turned on", that the side-by-side is reflective of Melee Core in your Resistance stats as well, which also bumps Res values by 16.1% static at "0" enemies.
• You follow up a reply to my comment saying I ignored your post, and quote yourself for reference.

Me:

• Points out that I intentionally disregarded because it was not a relevant continuation because of what was stated, and that it would not provide reasonable continuation of relevant discussion.
• Adds a screen clip from a random build to show we can all do this, it's cool, moving on.
• Adds light hearted comment about accepting the fear for what it is, and seeking to move on.
• Notation about "untouchable sloth" is in direct correlation to many previous forum users expressing they feel a highly-defensive Tank build is slow(er) and they are willing to compromise some survival building in favor of better damage performance. Sloths by the nature are slow moving creatures that are not inherently aggressive (offensively inclined) in their demeanor.

You:

• Replies stating I don't understand... actually, I don't even know what you're trying to say there. That I don't get the point? Of... what?
• Reposts the same two screen shots from the previously mentioned, quotes post that was explicitly stated by you as being "melee on", and then says it is "no incarnates turned on", which is blatantly incorrect and visibly proven by the numbers on Fear being clearly Melee Core's 10.72 pt buff to protection.
• Follows up with two build comments stating neither is a "sloth", misunderstanding the intention of the original choice of the term.

Me:

• Still not sure what point you're trying to make. Radiation Armor has a hole to Fear, you're working to find reasonable methods to protect yourself from that problem by layering defense, status resistances, and status protections through alternative means. Those means still have down time and are not a perfect solution, the hole still exists. They've done well to allow you generally avoid the concern of Fear and that's great. Tough Tanker Bro.
• Cool, moving on.

 

Pretty sure I followed along well enough. /em shrug

 

20 hours ago, Supertanker said:

Your Enhancements count too, so assuming you have around +100% damage, the cap is more like 300%. This is another reason I don't bother with double Rage- with Assault running I'm at +175% damage, and with Musculature Core most attacks are at about +130% damage, and the Gaussian's Build Up goes off a lot when you're in the middle of a crowd. So, damage is pretty crazy already.

As Haijinx said, the Tanker cap was adjusted to 500% (400/100). If you turn on your combat stats for Damage you can see your active buffs as they apply, they won't cap out until 400% and it turns teal. It is a number I am very used to seeing 😄

[Supertanker]

28 minutes ago, Sir Myshkin said:

As Haijinx said, the Tanker cap was adjusted to 500% (400/100). If you turn on your combat stats for Damage you can see your active buffs as they apply, they won't cap out until 400% and it turns teal. It is a number I am very used to seeing 😄

My point is going by the damage bonus is misleading, because it doesn't include your Enhancements. Try it yourself- check your damage at 300% versus 400%. It's probably the same or close.

[Sir Myshkin]

14 minutes ago, Supertanker said:

My point is going by the damage bonus is misleading, because it doesn't include your Enhancements. Try it yourself- check your damage at 300% versus 400%. It's probably the same or close.

For Science!

 

KO Blow at 300%, 92.2% Enhancement

 

KO Blow at 400%, 92.2% Enhancement

 

KO Blow at 11%, 92.2% Enhancement (baseline)

 

Add in -20% Resistance on the target at 300%:

 

and 400%:

 

[Infinitum]

1 hour ago, Sir Myshkin said:

Spoiler

You:

• Claim your Radiation Armor build has never been feared because of Resistance stats, posts screen shots with values without any other confirmation of where sources come from.

Me:

• Demonstrates that resistance to terrorized does not prevent terrorized, and have similar stats, clearly uses language--as well as explicitly stating as such--that it's cool, I'm just joking around.

You:

• In between post another screen shot with additional values, explicitly state that it is with Melee Core turned on, and have the two images side by side. It is verifiable that Melee Core is turned on because it grants a static 10.72 point protection to status effects of Hold, Stunned, Sleep, Immob, Confuse, and Fear even with "0" enemies set. As such, it must be inferred by your own statement "with turned on", that the side-by-side is reflective of Melee Core in your Resistance stats as well, which also bumps Res values by 16.1% static at "0" enemies.
• You follow up a reply to my comment saying I ignored your post, and quote yourself for reference.

Me:

• Points out that I intentionally disregarded because it was not a relevant continuation because of what was stated, and that it would not provide reasonable continuation of relevant discussion.
• Adds a screen clip from a random build to show we can all do this, it's cool, moving on.
• Adds light hearted comment about accepting the fear for what it is, and seeking to move on.
• Notation about "untouchable sloth" is in direct correlation to many previous forum users expressing they feel a highly-defensive Tank build is slow(er) and they are willing to compromise some survival building in favor of better damage performance. Sloths by the nature are slow moving creatures that are not inherently aggressive (offensively inclined) in their demeanor.

You:

• Replies stating I don't understand... actually, I don't even know what you're trying to say there. That I don't get the point? Of... what?
• Reposts the same two screen shots from the previously mentioned, quotes post that was explicitly stated by you as being "melee on", and then says it is "no incarnates turned on", which is blatantly incorrect and visibly proven by the numbers on Fear being clearly Melee Core's 10.72 pt buff to protection.
• Follows up with two build comments stating neither is a "sloth", misunderstanding the intention of the original choice of the term.

Me:

• Still not sure what point you're trying to make. Radiation Armor has a hole to Fear, you're working to find reasonable methods to protect yourself from that problem by layering defense, status resistances, and status protections through alternative means. Those means still have down time and are not a perfect solution, the hole still exists. They've done well to allow you generally avoid the concern of Fear and that's great. Tough Tanker Bro.
• Cool, moving on.

 

Pretty sure I followed along well enough. /em shrug

LOL you say let it go after posting both the illiad and the odyssey.  Thats funny man.

 

Yeah it was late, I made a mistake on that first picture - I got resistance and protection mixed up, and clarified it after I realised my mistake.  I rarely run melee core and still do not get feared.  But if I were going up against a target that could, I would run melee core.... And wait for it... and not get feared.  I laid all that out for you and even explained what I did and what it meant.

 

So no you didn't follow.

 

I dont get feared on my rad rad tanker.

 

You are the one that talked about the fear and confuse weakness on your all proc no rock build, and that doesnt happen to mine.

 

If you want a test in person to vouch for any of this you can find me on excelsior nightly.

 

Nuff said.

 

Have a good evening :-)

[Gobbledigook]

Does it really matter guys? It's not a competition.

 

I will happily pop an insp on those rare occasions or you can plug the hole on building. It all works.

 

 

[kelika2]

Fire/Staff.  PBAoE God.  Guarded Spin keeps melee def, I slotted for ranged def.  Guarded Spin at 4, Eye of the Storm at 16, Burn at 18.  Rains numbers.

SR/MA.  Dodge queen.  Storm Kick (10% def all) + tanker numbers + why not 3%x2 def IOs in Tough softcaps me even in Positron's task force.  Build #1 IO'ed for Runspeed.  Build #2 IO'ed for Resists.  My insp tray is just full of green/blue/duals/orange

I have a radi/fire and dark/dark tank on the backburner tho

[Haijinx]

4 hours ago, Gobbledegook said:

Does it really matter guys? It's not a competition.

 

 

yes it is

[Parabola]

59 minutes ago, Haijinx said:

5 hours ago, Gobbledegook said:

Does it really matter guys? It's not a competition.

 

 

yes it is

Or foreplay...

[Infinitum]

1 hour ago, parabola said:

Or foreplay...

[Likara]

14 hours ago, Supertanker said:

My point is going by the damage bonus is misleading, because it doesn't include your Enhancements. Try it yourself- check your damage at 300% versus 400%. It's probably the same or close.

Nevermind, I'm an idiot

Edited August 22, 2020 by Ritikesh

[Bopper]

12 hours ago, Sir Myshkin said:

For Science!

 

KO Blow at 300%, 92.2% Enhancement

 

KO Blow at 400%, 92.2% Enhancement

 

KO Blow at 11%, 92.2% Enhancement (baseline)

 

Add in -20% Resistance on the target at 300%:

 

and 400%:

 

Impressive numbers. It is worth noting for anyone who is unfamiliar with Lattices, they have -40% resistance to Smashing Damage. This will not only make your base numbers do 40% more damage, but also resistance debuffs will be amplified, as resistance resists resistible resistance debuffs, a negative resistance will buff resistible resistance debuffs.

 

This makes a 20% resistance debuff do 28% resistance debuff, which will make the Lattice have -68% resistance to Smashing Damage.

 

Out of curiousity, I see you did the same 1750.96 damage at -20% resistance and 300% as you did with the 400% and no resistance debuff. Is this coincidental? I'm also having trouble working out the numbers exact, so can you ellaborate on your results? I might be doing something wrong. For example:

Baseline: 11% and 92.2% enhance. So KoB is buffed to (100%+11%+92.2%=203.2%). So if I take the 595.42/2.032 = 293.02 damage if you hit the Lattice with 0% and 0% enhance (base damage).

 

Taking the 293.02 damage and applying 300% and 92.2% enhance (so 100% + 300% + 92.2% = 492.2%), I would expect 1442.25 damage, but you show 1693.98. With the cap at 500%, the most I would have expected is 1465.11 damage. So I'm curious, did you apply a resistance debuff that isn't listed? Or is the Baseline numbers possibly not showing the correct information (making my Base damage wrong in my calculations)?

[CaptainLupis]

24 minutes ago, Bopper said:

Impressive numbers. It is worth noting for anyone who is unfamiliar with Lattices, they have -40% resistance to Smashing Damage. This will not only make your base numbers do 40% more damage, but also resistance debuffs will be amplified, as resistance resists resistible resistance debuffs, a negative resistance will buff resistible resistance debuffs.

 

This makes a 20% resistance debuff do 28% resistance debuff, which will make the Lattice have -68% resistance to Smashing Damage.

 

Out of curiousity, I see you did the same 1750.96 damage at -20% resistance and 300% as you did with the 400% and no resistance debuff. Is this coincidental? I'm also having trouble working out the numbers exact, so can you ellaborate on your results? I might be doing something wrong. For example:

Baseline: 11% and 92.2% enhance. So KoB is buffed to (100%+11%+92.2%=203.2%). So if I take the 595.42/2.032 = 293.02 damage if you hit the Lattice with 0% and 0% enhance (base damage).

 

Taking the 293.02 damage and applying 300% and 92.2% enhance (so 100% + 300% + 92.2% = 492.2%), I would expect 1442.25 damage, but you show 1693.98. With the cap at 500%, the most I would have expected is 1465.11 damage. So I'm curious, did you apply a resistance debuff that isn't listed? Or is the Baseline numbers possibly not showing the correct information (making my Base damage wrong in my calculations)?

I think I may make that my sig...

 

[Bopper]

1 minute ago, CaptainLupis said:

I think I may make that my sig...

 

It certainly is the most fun sentence to repeat in CoH.

[Supertanker]

1 hour ago, Ritikesh said:

As Myshkin already showed with his tests, the game doesn't work that way. Enhancement values and global values are separate beasts. Slotting damage enhancements doesn't lower your global damage cap.

Look at the basic 300% and 400% damage, they're only off by a few percent. If the attack had been 100% enhanced, the numbers would be the same.