OP scrapper?

[Papaschtroumpf]

OK, I was goign to create a character called "Ronin the Barbarian" but the name was taken, and mentioned it in the forums and the original owner (communistpenguin?) graciously decide to give it to me, so now the character concept is a blend of Samurai and "savage".  Seems perfect for Dual Blades / Ninja or Katana / Ninja.

 

what are the advantages of one vs the other? SharNinja any opinion?

 

I may just do Kat/Nin on this character and look up Neogumbercules' build on DB/Dark for another character. I assuem Dark still hides your costume 99% of the time, so maybe best for a non-concept character? (unless the concept is Pigpen?)

[Papaschtroumpf]

and I forgot I created a lowbie Staff/Elec Brute that's languishing in the mid-teens, so I renamed/re-costume that toon into my Sith character, not that it would take that long to reroll as a scrapper

[Lockpick]

On 8/21/2020 at 9:47 PM, Bill Z Bubba said:

Katana/Bio.

Why?  I am curious...

 

Don't think I have ever seen this recommendation before.

[Bill Z Bubba]

16 minutes ago, Lockpick said:

Why?  I am curious...

 

Don't think I have ever seen this recommendation before.

Cuz I had just gotten off my kat/nin scrapper and was still loving how damn brutal that set can be. But I think I'm through with Bio armor. It's damn nice for the extra damage but just folds too easily in too many of the situations that I'm in often.

 

To expound a bit: Chance for BU in BU, followed by Soaring Dragon with the Scrap IO +50 chance to Crit, then Sting of the Wasp with the chance for -res debuff, then Golden Dragonfly with another Chance for -res debuff. It doesn't happen often but seeing a double BU backed GD critting is real pretty.

Edited August 24, 2020 by Bill Z Bubba

[Tsuko]

3 hours ago, Lockpick said:

Why?  I am curious...

 

Don't think I have ever seen this recommendation before.

and Katana have a solid ST dps with one of the best (very) close multitarget DPS.

 

Divine avalanche is one the best self Lethal and mélée defence provider of the game : allowing set with def and no Defence Debuff resistance to cover this weakness by going off the roof with a divine avalanche spam.

 

Bio is a def/regen/absorb set with a hardcore hole in lethal defense (lethal being the main source of defence debuff) and NO Defence Debuff resistance, on top of being one of the best armor providing + damage.

Edited August 25, 2020 by Tsuko

[Fergz99]

I think DB/WP is a beast for scrapper

[Krazie Ivan]

On 8/22/2020 at 9:13 AM, Bill Z Bubba said:

On 8/22/2020 at 7:06 AM, InvaderStych said:

and the ability to cap defense with a click (requires Shadow Meld)?

With zero DDR and what's the actual % uptime on Shadow Meld these days?

i'm only at 15/45sec base with just a LotG 7.5% slotted... add Hasten, Agility, and saturated B.Decay to improve to 15/28sec... certainly not great, or a complete answer, but it helps /Rad quite a bit when waiting for P.Shield & R.Therapy on cooldown. went Ageless Radial for DDR assist (and MOR GLORIOUS MOMENTUM!), ATOs in TW's Def.Sweep to get some DPS out of it when i absolutely need to use it... (+4x8 ITF Alter ambush when team dies? lol).

my Def/Res isn't much different than Invader's i spose?...went Melee softcap with just 40% to S/L, and capped SLEFT Res with Scaling unique, Neg just shy by 3%, 37/28 Cold/Psi (i'm a big proponent of E/N Res for late game). GZ 5-proc nuke. 800+HP Absorb. Pana+P.Transfer. can confirm Invader's "awesome" & feels OP description. hell, it even Ex's down amazingly well!

not to say TW/Rad is the most OP combo in all ways... (/EnA & /Inv are more durable in more content. SR can be great, but greater on a Brute. /Bio makes me want to log-in a Blaster. Kat is less hassle while still offering the best type of mitigation. Claws is near-perfect in it's combination of slotting allowances/mitigation/animation speed/etc.) ...but sweet baby science it's devastating while safe, and incredibly fun.

[TJBC]

<empty>

Edited August 25, 2020 by TJBC

[InvaderStych]

In the interest of the pursuit of the OP Scrapper ...

 

On 8/24/2020 at 2:22 PM, Bill Z Bubba said:

<snip>

 

To expound a bit: Chance for BU in BU, followed by Soaring Dragon with the Scrap IO +50 chance to Crit, then Sting of the Wasp with the chance for -res debuff, then Golden Dragonfly with another Chance for -res debuff. It doesn't happen often but seeing a double BU backed GD critting is real pretty.

 

This is basically why I went Kat/Rad.  One -Res in GD, the other in BetaD.  Stacking Meltdown (+41.25%) against T4 Assault Core (+85% fully stacked, if I have it right) and double BU makes for very satisfying Crits all around.

 

That said, I've been also reading your Mace/Bio thread, and it has me wondering what going with WM/Rad would look like.  Last time I played Mace was a /SD brute back in the long, long ago - so when I went to try it out in mids I had no idea how to focus the primary picks.

 

4 hours ago, Krazie Ivan said:

i'm only at 15/45sec base with just a LotG 7.5% slotted... add Hasten, Agility, and saturated B.Decay to improve to 15/28sec... certainly not great, or a complete answer, but it helps /Rad quite a bit when waiting for P.Shield & R.Therapy on cooldown. went Ageless Radial for DDR assist (and MOR GLORIOUS MOMENTUM!), ATOs in TW's Def.Sweep to get some DPS out of it when i absolutely need to use it... (+4x8 ITF Alter ambush when team dies? lol).

my Def/Res isn't much different than Invader's i spose?...went Melee softcap with just 40% to S/L, and capped SLEFT Res with Scaling unique, Neg just shy by 3%, 37/28 Cold/Psi (i'm a big proponent of E/N Res for late game). GZ 5-proc nuke. 800+HP Absorb. Pana+P.Transfer. can confirm Invader's "awesome" & feels OP description. hell, it even Ex's down amazingly well!

not to say TW/Rad is the most OP combo in all ways... (/EnA & /Inv are more durable in more content. SR can be great, but greater on a Brute. /Bio makes me want to log-in a Blaster. Kat is less hassle while still offering the best type of mitigation. Claws is near-perfect in it's combination of slotting allowances/mitigation/animation speed/etc.) ...but sweet baby science it's devastating while safe, and incredibly fun.

 

Full disclosure: I'm not working with what should be considered a finished build.  It's also kind of a mess. 

 

I still need to drop FS, but that gives me slotting problems because 6-sloting ATOs works well for the way I wound up setting him up.  But 6-slotting SD or GD is a no go because of Force Feedback and FotG -Res, respectively.

 

The good news is that I am sitting on a stack of respecs, heh.

 

Bear in mind, I'm using T4 Pyro Core, Musc Core, Degen Core, and Assault Core - but I haven't even started Destiny for Lore yet.  I'm tempted by Clarion because I hate mez .... a lot.  Though I know (having decided Barrier seemed like putting a hat on a hat - especially on teams) that Rebirth Radial would be the smarter choice.

 

You're definitely rolling with higher base def, assuming those numbers are before Meld.  I went for M/R/AoE since I had DA to work with.  27.92%, 20.42%, and 19.17%, respectively.  Ranged and AoE are just off cap inside meld, and melee is 51.4% for those 15s.  Single Shot of DA in that window and melee is 71.18% - which is academically interesting, but rarely happens in practice.

 

Definitely rocking higher resistance too - which is more in line with what I thought might be possible.  I have S/L at 72% before the Reactive piece kicks in, but E is only at 64% to start, and F lower.

 

Have you been able to get more than 800 out of PS?  I seem to be capped at 796, but I can't remember what I changed where I expected it to go higher.

 

Also, I have no doubt TW/Rad pushes some big damage.  Somewhere mid-30s while leveling I ran with a tw/rad on a full team.  Very similar costumes too, it was hilarious, we looked like siblings.  Almost wish I could get past my issues with TW and with Bio, but meh, there's enough to do in this game already. 😄

 

Other sort of miscellaneous rambling - I'm considering ditching the 90% proc rate on RT and giving it more recharge - and another slot.  My live build has PS over-slotted but I don't want to give up the numbers   Ditto for Gamma Boost. Which I almost wish I could ditch, but every time I consider doing so I remember that it's a source of -End/-Rec resistance.

 

Some info in case anyone wants a feel for my frame of reference: 🙂

 

As a test, I did a +4x8 DA mission run (redside arcs, the portion where you're sent to Cim), which was actually easier than I'd expected, but Talons aren't that difficult unless you let them live too long.  Though the Cyclops/Minotaur only groups were rough and I would have face-planted against those without insps. 

 

Prior to the thread I'd dabbled at max diff a few times but the slog before extra dmg from Incarnates was too boring.  This was a build-as-you-level project, and somewhere in the late 40s I started soloing x8, up to +2 on easy groups. If anyone was wondering, x8 Arachnoids do not constitute an "easy group," but they were one of my early +4 soloing tests when I got to 50. Doable, but not what I would call fun. Any and All AV/Hero soloing has been even-level.  Though I had to spend several million on anti-mez candies to beat Ghost Widow the first time, and the second time was a cave where I could kite when she fired up that cheat-button 100mag hold.

 

What-ever-in-the-name-of-all-that-is-sacred-and-sane Penelope Mayhem (Mr. G's Primal arc) is I just <bleeping> skipped.  She broke my brain and I auto-completed past that madness.

 

Long story still long, my build is far from the benchmark, but /Rad is a good place to look if someone is trying to build an OP, or even just OP feeling scrapper.

Edited August 26, 2020 by InvaderStych
Corrected Numbers

[Without_Pause]

On 8/22/2020 at 12:47 PM, Papaschtroumpf said:

I also have a "Darth Maul" inspired costume idea for Staff. What would be a good secondary for staff? 

 

Dark. Staff can offer a end reduction bonus which plays super nice with Dark.

 

StJ and Savage I would go stalker. 

[Doomguide2005]

On 8/23/2020 at 4:15 AM, Bill Z Bubba said:

True point. I have long term rage issues with Romulus' autohit fluffy.

Hopefully it's a one time shock.  After that it's macro time and kill it first whenever possible.  But yeah foes that come with +100% to hit bonuses basically neuter any defense bypassing any thought of DDR ... then it's just hoping the hit(s) cap your resistance instead of you tasting dirt.  

[ninja surprise]

On 8/22/2020 at 10:47 AM, Papaschtroumpf said:

Looks like Ninjutsu is not available for scrappers 

 

Ninjitsu goes great with Titan Weapons. Plenty of Defense powers to slot LotG +Rech, the +End will keep you fighting longtime, and both the +End and +Heal animate quick enough that you don't lose momentum.

 

BUT the best part is nearly every time it takes long enough to run from one spawn to the next you'll get hidden, then your next attack is AUTOCRIT.

So you run in, hit Build Momentum and Whirling Smash or Arc of Destruction and wipe out most of the spawn and yell SURPRISE IT'S A NINJA

[ShardWarrior]

On 8/27/2020 at 12:09 AM, ninja surprise said:

Ninjitsu goes great with Titan Weapons.

Yes, yes it does.  😁  Just leveled my TW/Nin scrapper to 50 and started working on getting her IO sets and Incarnates. 

[ScarySai]

Claw/bio is my favorite, and just buzzsaws through enemies.

[VV]

On 8/22/2020 at 12:47 PM, Papaschtroumpf said:

Battle Axe
Broad Sword
Claws
Dark Melee
Dual Blades
Fiery Melee
Katana
Kinetic Melee
Martial Arts
Savage Melee
Staff Fighting
Street Justice

 

The secondaries I haven't played are:
Dark Armor
Fiery Aura
Radiation Armor
Regeneration
Super Reflexes

Looks like Ninjutsu is not available for scrappers 

I have a War Mace/Ninjitsu Scrapper that ended up being WAY better than I expected. I like the nice array of tools from WM, with good AOE, good ST, KD, and Stun, it really allows you to take care of nearly anything you face. And the damage is, yikes. It also balances between cast time and damage, which I like. Though, I think Battle Axe is a good alternative.

 

Ninja seems overtuned to me. It comes with built in stealth and movement. It also has healing and end management that do not rely on a ToHit roll or having enemies nearby. Also, the KB resistance is on an auto power. This is important because if you get detoggled, you are still immune to knockback! This has saved me more than once. It also has a really sweet T9, which lasts three minutes! Plenty of time to manage whatever problem you are having.

 

 

[Krazie Ivan]

On 8/25/2020 at 8:05 PM, InvaderStych said:

assuming those numbers are before Meld

yeah

On 8/25/2020 at 8:05 PM, InvaderStych said:

Have you been able to get more than 800 out of PS?  I seem to be capped at 796, but I can't remember what I changed where I expected it to go higher.

thought i did, but must have been remembering Mids' numbers... which are quite a bit higher than in-game. you're right (796), seems capped on Scraps.

On 8/25/2020 at 8:05 PM, InvaderStych said:

Somewhere mid-30s while leveling I ran with a tw/rad on a full team.  Very similar costumes too, it was hilarious, we looked like siblings.

honestly could have been me, cause this sounds familiar from maybe a Manti WST run (char named Jinsoku Subeta), & i turn off my toggles if not on missions/TF so i can enjoy my costume - lol

[InvaderStych]

On 9/12/2020 at 8:59 AM, Krazie Ivan said:

yeah

 

Nice!  I'd like to find a little more def, but every time I think about a /respec, I can't break the fear I'll break something. 😄 

 

On 9/12/2020 at 8:59 AM, Krazie Ivan said:

thought i did, but must have been remembering Mids' numbers... which are quite a bit higher than in-game. you're right (796), seems capped on Scraps.

 

Hmm.. Now that is interesting.  This means that there's a point where slotting it becomes overkill on a scrapper, and I suspect that might be before traditional ED fall-off.  Paging @Bopper seems appropriate here. 🙂  I'm sure the resident maths guru already knows the answer.

 

On 9/12/2020 at 8:59 AM, Krazie Ivan said:

honestly could have been me, cause this sounds familiar from maybe a Manti WST run (char named Jinsoku Subeta), & i turn off my toggles if not on missions/TF so i can enjoy my costume - lol

 

Heh, that would be an awesome bit of serendipity, and I'm fairly sure it was a TF run of some sort but I am pretty bad at remembering names.  If you're talking Excel and Jinsoku looks like a bigger, blond version of this with different glasses and color scheme, then "Yup:"

 

 

_______________________________________________________________________________________________________

 

On the "OP Scrapper" note.  I think I found a Wall.  +3x8 Carnies.  Also can't quite determine what is happening.  It's basically intense, but not difficult until all of the sudden I am dead without warning.  I suspect it's when there's multiple Master Illusionists summoning a horde of pets.  Still done more with this character in terms of difficulty than I ever really did during Live. 

 

Taking a bit of a break from him though as I just rolled a Psi/Nin scrapper on a lark.  Will obviously never contend for OP, but I love the sfx of the blades, and the stupid giant fist makes me giggle every time I use TB.  I almost wish there were alternate (blade or fist/foot) animations for all of the psi powers.  There's a place for campy-looking powers sometimes, but the mix/match of the animations is awkward.

 

____________________________________________________________________________________________________

 

Also, I think a definition is in order.  It's all well an good to suggest combos and builds that might be considered an "OP Scrapper," but what is it that we are actually talking about?  Max Damage, Max Survivability, Best Compromise between those, Most Surprising?  Some other parameter that I'm not caffeinated enough to consider?

 

In the current state of the game there's a lot of X/Y would be "better" as a [tank/brute/stalker] for reasons A, B, and/or C discussion. Personally, when I think about rolling something lately, all I can think is "Yeah, sure, that's probably true, but it's more _interesting_ to me as a Scrapper."  Can't really articulate why.  Some combination of nostalgia and underdog affinity.  Or something.

 

Thoughts?

Edited September 13, 2020 by InvaderStych

[Bill Z Bubba]

24 minutes ago, InvaderStych said:

"Yeah, sure, that's probably true, but it's more _interesting_ to me as a Scrapper."  Can't really articulate why.

Cuz CRITS!

[Ruby Rocket]

On 8/21/2020 at 9:06 PM, Papaschtroumpf said:

Almost 40 characters and no scrappers !??!!?

 

I need a scrapper

 

Any dark/dark/dark scrapper builds? I haven't done dark melee since live

 

Nor have I done dual blade, ninja blade, savage, ma, kin melee, broadsword, staff

 

So what's an OP scrapper build using one of the above?

 

 

I'm still playing around with it, but here's my current iteration of Dark/Dark/Dark.  It's a lot of fun, but I don't think the damage is quite there yet.  Perma-Soul Drain, and Adrenaline Shot is up half the time.  Softcap Melee, 42% S&L def.  Nearly capped Psi, Neg Energy, Fire, Cold, Smashing, and Leathal resistance.  Energy Resistance and Toxic is still a bit of a problem to achieve "God of Destruction" status, but it has simple attack chains. My current attack chain is Smite, Siphon Life, Smite, Midnight Grasp OR Smite, Shadow Maul, Smite, Nightfall for AoE. Smite works quite well for the ATO Crit setup.  Heck, I hit smite before Soul Drain and Dark Consumption as well... she crits like a champ.  And ridiculous To-Hit buffs... Even Cloak of Fear hits.  It feels quite strong when you pretty much kill a +3 minion with just Smite.  Oh and I have to go back and look, but it seems like shadow maul will immediatly max out the Assault Core stacks.  Scrapper-lock makes monitoring the buffs problematic. 😜

Ruby Rocket.mxd

Edited October 9, 2020 by Ruby Rocket

[Crysis]

On 8/24/2020 at 4:47 PM, Papaschtroumpf said:

and I forgot I created a lowbie Staff/Elec Brute that's languishing in the mid-teens, so I renamed/re-costume that toon into my Sith character, not that it would take that long to reroll as a scrapper

Literally under 10 mins to get any character to 20 using AE PL method.  I have acres of toons with names (generic costumes) parked at unleveled 20 or so just so I have a library of alts ready to go.

Edited October 11, 2020 by Crysis

[ChocolateMercenary]

On 8/22/2020 at 2:01 PM, Papaschtroumpf said:

What's DDR?

 

Defense Debuff Resistance. The ability to not have your defense taken away by -DEF attacks.

[Doomguide2005]

5 hours ago, ChocolateMercenary said:

Defense Debuff Resistance. The ability to not have your defense taken away by -DEF attacks.

Which in turn leads to a 'cascading' defense failure.  Basically if hit by, for example, a -10% defdebuff and you have, again pulling a number out, 20% DDR, your 48% defense is now 40 and the next blow has a 10% chance to hit rather than 5% ... then the next blow lands and drops you another 8% etc., etc..  But if you're SR that first blow instead drops your defense to 47.5% and even if hit by very nasty streak of hits you'll still be over 45% defense.  Basically you'll die while still at the defense cap whereas the no or low DDR character will get heavily debuffed and die while having virtually no defense left.

 

Couple that DDR with SR's scaling resistance is why an SR tank is so tough ... until it runs into things like auto-hit Fluffy or DE eminators giving the surrounding DE +100% to hit which is as good as saying 'auto-hit' vs any defense a character might typically have