Focused Feedback: Energy Melee Revamp

[Infinitum]

6 minutes ago, siolfir said:

While the set isn't specifically better at stunning than before (pre- or post-nerf), it's really not any worse at it, either.

 

You might get more stuns from having two AoEs with a low percentage chance in each, but for me those aren't reliable enough to consider "better." Combine with Oppressive Gloom and the mobs in melee range attack you because a) you missed; b) you let them; or c) you're herding stun-resistant mobs (EB+ included). Locking down a typical 2-3 boss spawn should not be a problem.

Most Will be "arrested" before it will matter about a long duration stun anyway.

 

I have been "arresting" the ka ka out of bad guys testing this. Heh heh

[Troo]

1 hour ago, AerialAssault said:

I want to be honest, I never felt like I had issues stunning enemies on any AT. Yeah, sure, maybe I couldn't keep 1 Boss consistently CC'd, but you know what I could do? Completely discombobulate them with very high burst damage. Which I think is a fair trade-off.

I would give two likes if I could.

 

 

@Naraka@Sovera@siolfir, It looks like similar thoughts posed in slightly different ways. I don't think anyone wants controller type 10+ target AoE stun lock downs. (not happen'n)

 

Pairing with Dark does allow stacking stuns over more targets, one at a time, while doing damage, and likely dropping yummy -tohits all over.

 

Oppressive Gloom + Energy Melee = a very active health bar.

Edited October 30, 2020 by Troo

[PeregrineFalcon]

Just a question for the developers (and yes I've been testing EM on Brainstorm):

 

Energy Melee has two things, 1) Single-target damage and, 2) Stuns.

 

Now, since EM still isn't going to be the best at single-target damage (there's no dispute here, pylon tests prove this) can we at least get some improvements to the stuns?

 

And yes. I am asking for the ability to more reliably stun bosses. I don't care about stunning minions or even lieutenants, and I don't expect to be able to reliably stun EBs or AVs. But, since single-target damage is about taking down bosses, and since EM can't be the king of single-target damage again, can it at least be the king of single-target stuns?

[Infinitum]

20 minutes ago, PeregrineFalcon said:

Now, since EM still isn't going to be the best at single-target damage (there's no dispute here, pylon tests prove this)

Wait a sec, 55 sec is what I saw someone hit on EM the other day, and I have personally hit 71 sec with agility slotted instead of musculature and the body mastery pool.

 

Are there many times outside of a MM that are better than those.?

[PeregrineFalcon]

3 minutes ago, Infinitum said:

Wait a sec, 55 sec is what I saw someone hit on EM the other day, and I have personally hit 71 sec with agility slotted instead of musculature and the body mastery pool.

 

Are there many times outside of a MM that are better than those.?

MM? I don't know what that means.

 

Posts I saw by Billzbuba stated that War Mace, among others, routinely had better pylon times than EM. Did I miss an update to that?

[siolfir]

30 minutes ago, Infinitum said:

Wait a sec, 55 sec is what I saw someone hit on EM the other day, and I have personally hit 71 sec with agility slotted instead of musculature and the body mastery pool.

 

Are there many times outside of a MM that are better than those.?

 

24 minutes ago, PeregrineFalcon said:

MM? I don't know what that means.

 

Posts I saw by Billzbuba stated that War Mace, among others, routinely had better pylon times than EM. Did I miss an update to that?

 

Both of these can be true? Stalker EM >= Scrapper WM > Scrapper EM. Stalkers don't get War Mace, and get a second "fast Energy Transfer" in Assassin's Strike.

 

The reduced/low critical on the heavy hitters really hurts its relative performance for those ATs. It's probably tops for Tankers and Brutes, though (haven't done the math since I'm lazy).

[AerialAssault]

Maybe it's just me, but I don't feel that we should be using Pylon tests as a benchmark for developing any set. The data can certainly be useful, but most people aren't soloing Pylons.

 

As I said, during my own tests I never once thought "Ugh god this damage is terrible.", I thought "Wowaza, I just dusted that guy in two hits.". I wasn't trying anything high tier or outrageous. Just playing the game as I normally would.

 

 

 

[Infinitum]

53 minutes ago, PeregrineFalcon said:

MM? I don't know what that means.

 

Posts I saw by Billzbuba stated that War Mace, among others, routinely had better pylon times than EM. Did I miss an update to that?

All I know is that 55 sec is solidly good and so is 71 for that matter - and no I dont think pylons should be the end all be all, but for ST its a good benchmark especially when we can measure how EM improved across all ATs that had it before and after.

 

Scrapper EM we don't have a prior benchmark, but I can attest to it not being as good as stalker EM on a Pylon but being better than stalker EM in mission saturation.

 

MM is mastermind, I thought I read somewhere a demon MM hit the pylon record - I could be wrong.

[Bill Z Bubba]

1 hour ago, PeregrineFalcon said:

MM? I don't know what that means.

 

Posts I saw by Billzbuba stated that War Mace, among others, routinely had better pylon times than EM. Did I miss an update to that?

Posts by BillZBubba are based on non proc-monster builds and have been shown several times to be inferior to heavy proc builds.

Masterminds (MMs) are also broken against pylons since their pets are even con against them unlike everything else in the game.

Heavy-proc build EM users appear to be ... godly.

[Tsuko]

3 minutes ago, Infinitum said:

All I know is that 55 sec is solidly good and so is 71 for that matter - and no I dont think pylons should be the end all be all, but for ST its a good benchmark especially when we can measure how EM improved across all ATs that had it before and after.

 

Scrapper EM we don't have a prior benchmark, but I can attest to it not being as good as stalker EM on a Pylon but being better than stalker EM in mission saturation.

 

MM is mastermind, I thought I read somewhere a demon MM hit the pylon record - I could be wrong.

On live, the only at i know able to go sub minute are :

• Scrapper TW / Bio
• MM Thug / Storm
• MM Thug / Nature
• MM Demon / Cold
• Stalker STJ / Bio
• Crab Pet / mace epic

[Infinitum]

25 minutes ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

Heavy-proc build EM users appear to be ... godly

Mine is not proc heavy - 71 sec

 

Just say no to procs kids.  Heh heh

Edited October 30, 2020 by Infinitum

[aethereal]

I've been remiss in updating my feedback on my slow grind up levels.  For those just joining us, this is an EM/Invul scrapper, I've been entirely solo, currently level 27.

 

So I got TF at level 26.  That's a big difference in the fun value of the set even right as you get it, just moving the number of big hitters in the set up from one to two.  Honestly, I'd probably switch the positions of it and Whirling Hands.  PC provides you with enough AoE (given its fast recharge) for the early 20's, and with TF carrying all of the mechanic of the set, I think it'd be nice to get it earlier.

 

Not that the mechanic is a huge deal for me right now.  Without Energy Transfer, there's no DPS add from EF, you either get a bigger area for PC (which I don't really need as I'm not yet facing large groups of foes), or guaranteed stun from BS, which is sometimes nice, but not really amazing, given the single-target nature of it and the plethora of stun options in Energy Melee.  It helps my survivability when dealing with bosses, otherwise not a huge deal.  If I were teaming, and thus facing larger spawns, I presume the bigger PC would be nice.

 

That said, TF is still welcome with or without much help from the mechanic because, like Bone Smasher is great, but then you go for a long time before you get your next single-target tool, and having another big hit is super nice.  With the new animation, it doesn't "feel" slow to me anymore.  I mean, it's still a long animation, but it somehow gets under the threshold of feeling glacial.

 

Speaking of survivability, mine still sucks.  Almost certainly more to do with Invul than EM, but jesus.  Not able to advance the difficulty above +1/x2 so far, and I have deaths from time to time.  I'm not playing super conservatively or anything.

[PeregrineFalcon]

28 minutes ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

Heavy-proc build EM users appear to be ... godly.

Reeeaaaally? Mmmm.

 

How would suggest I go about building that? I can't imagine that replacing the 3 dam enhancements in say TF or ET will procs would be useful. Am I wrong on that?

[Bill Z Bubba]

10 minutes ago, Infinitum said:

Mine is not proc heavy - 71 sec

 

Just say no to procs kids.  Heh heh

Post it.

[Gobbledygook]

Wait, are people making builds in MR with the proposed changes?

[Lines]

2 minutes ago, Gobbledygook said:

Wait, are people making builds in MR with the proposed changes?

I believe they're using Street Justice as a stand-in.

[Infinitum]

40 minutes ago, Lines said:

I believe they're using Street Justice as a stand-in.

Yep

[Infinitum]

1 hour ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

Post it.

Villain Plan by Mids' Reborn : Hero Designer 2.7.2.10
https://github.com/Crytilis/mids-reborn-hero-designer

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Novaflux: Level 50 Science Stalker
Primary Power Set: Energy Melee
Secondary Power Set: Energy Aura
Power Pool: Flight
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Fighting
Ancillary Pool: Body Mastery

Villain Profile:
Level 1: Energy Punch -- SprAssMar-Acc/Dmg(A), SprAssMar-Dmg/Rchg(5), SprAssMar-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(43), SprAssMar-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(43), SprAssMar-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(50), SprAssMar-Rchg/Rchg Build Up(50)
Level 1: Hide -- ShlWal-Def/EndRdx(A), ShlWal-Def/Rchg(3), ShlWal-EndRdx/Rchg(3), ShlWal-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(5), ShlWal-Def(31), ShlWal-ResDam/Re TP(40)
Level 2: Kinetic Shield -- ShlWal-Def/EndRdx(A), ShlWal-Def/Rchg(7), ShlWal-EndRdx/Rchg(9), ShlWal-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(17), ShlWal-Def(39)
Level 4: Fly -- BlsoftheZ-ResKB(A)
Level 6: Power Shield -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(7), LucoftheG-Def/Rchg(9), LucoftheG-EndRdx/Rchg(42), LucoftheG-Def(42), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(43)
Level 8: Assassin's Strike -- SprStlGl-Acc/Dmg(A), SprStlGl-Dmg/Rchg(11), SprStlGl-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(11), SprStlGl-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(13), SprStlGl-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(13), SprStlGl-Rchg/Hide%(15)
Level 10: Entropy Shield -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 12: Combat Jumping -- Rct-ResDam%(A)
Level 14: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(15)
Level 16: Kinetic Dampening -- UnbGrd-ResDam(A), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx(17), UnbGrd-EndRdx/Rchg(29), UnbGrd-Rchg/ResDam(29), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(31), ImpArm-ResPsi(31)
Level 18: Power Crash -- SprAvl-Acc/Dmg(A), SprAvl-Dmg/EndRdx(19), SprAvl-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(19), SprAvl-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(21), SprAvl-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(21), SprAvl-Rchg/KDProc(23)
Level 20: Build Up -- GssSynFr--Build%(A), GssSynFr--ToHit(23), GssSynFr--ToHit/Rchg(25), GssSynFr--ToHit/Rchg/EndRdx(27), GssSynFr--Rchg/EndRdx(27), GssSynFr--ToHit/EndRdx(34)
Level 22: Boxing -- Empty(A)
Level 24: Tough -- GldArm-3defTpProc(A), StdPrt-ResDam/Def+(25), ImpArm-ResPsi(40)
Level 26: Total Focus -- Hct-Dmg/Rchg(A), Hct-Acc/Rchg(37), Hct-Dmg/EndRdx(39), TchofDth-Dmg/Rchg(39), TchofDth-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(40), TchofDth-Dam%(42)
Level 28: Energy Drain -- LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(A), LucoftheG-Def/Rchg(46), LucoftheG-EndRdx/Rchg(48), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(48), LucoftheG-Def(48), LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(50)
Level 30: Hover -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A)
Level 32: Energy Transfer -- Hct-Dam%(A), Hct-Dmg(33), Hct-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(33), TchofDth-Dmg/Rchg(33), TchofDth-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(34), TchofDth-Dam%(34)
Level 35: Energize -- Prv-Heal(A), Prv-Heal/EndRdx(36), Prv-EndRdx/Rchg(36), Prv-Heal/Rchg(36), Prv-Heal/Rchg/EndRdx(37), Prv-Absorb%(37)
Level 38: Superior Conditioning -- PrfShf-End%(A)
Level 41: Physical Perfection -- PrfShf-End%(A)
Level 44: Weave -- LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(A), LucoftheG-Def/Rchg(45), LucoftheG-EndRdx/Rchg(45), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(45), LucoftheG-Def(46), LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(46)
Level 47: Focused Accuracy -- GssSynFr--ToHit/EndRdx(A)
Level 49: Afterburner -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A)
Level 1: Assassination 
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Quick Form 
Level 1: Prestige Power Dash -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Slide -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Quick -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Rush -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Surge -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Clr-Stlth(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run 
Level 2: Swift -- Flight-I(A)
Level 2: Health -- Pnc-Heal/+End(A)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- PrfShf-End%(A)
Level 50: Agility Core Paragon 
Level 50: Assault Core Embodiment 
Level 50: Degenerative Core Flawless Interface 
Level 50: Ion Radial Final Judgement 
Level 50: Ageless Radial Epiphany 
Level 50: Longbow Core Superior Ally

[Razor Cure]

5 hours ago, Tsuko said:

On live, the only at i know able to go sub minute are :

• Scrapper TW / Bio
• MM Thug / Storm
• MM Thug / Nature
• MM Demon / Cold
• Stalker STJ / Bio
• Crab Pet / mace epic

I just read this post and tried it on my Demons/Dark. Incarnate powers but no iPets. 54 seconds. Weee! I'd imagine it would be even better stacknig the -res whip attacks (which I don't have).

[BrandX]

I was using Fire Melee as a stand in, but PC is a PBAOE in game (thought it was supposed to be Targeted AOE).

 

Got some play time in, and OMG!  Am I just to used to taking Tactics, because I don't have it in current build and I missed a lot! O.O

[ScarySai]

I think you're thinking of Touch of Fear as the TAoE.

Edited October 31, 2020 by ScarySai

[kenlon]

As primarily a tanker player when it comes to EM, I'd like to add a vote for moving the stun combo mechanic off of Bonesmasher and on to Barrage. 

[Jimmy]

Build 2 - October 31st, 2020

 

Powerset Revamp: Energy Melee

Energy Melee has received a series of changes aimed at improving the performance of the set. Total Focus now acts as an opener for three different Energy Focus combos, including a Total Focus > Energy Transfer combo which provides fast, potent single target damage. Stun has been reworked into Power Crash, a cone attack, in order to provide a small amount of additional AoE capability to the set.

 

Power Changes

•  Barrage
  • If used with Energy Focus: 100% chance for stun and applies a weakening (-special and -regen) effect to the target
    • This effect has been moved from Bone Smasher to Barrage
•  Energy Punch
  • Recharge increased from 4s to 5s
  • End cost increased from 5.2 to 6.032
  • Damage increased from scale 1 to scale 1.16
•  Bone Smasher
  • Cast time reduced from 1.5s to 1.27s
  • No longer consumes Energy Focus, allowing it to be more freely used in attack chains
    • This effect has been moved to Barrage
•  Power Crash (Replaces Stun)
  • Power Crash is now a minor cone that can hit up to 5 targets (10 for Tankers)
  • No longer takes melee damage sets, now takes PBAoE damage sets (any existing enhancements will remain slotted until the character respecs)
  • If used with Energy Focus: Target cap increased to 10 targets (16 for Tankers)
  • If you previously had Stun in your build, you'll now have Power Crash
  • Stalkers only:
    • This power has a 16s recharge (instead of a 9s recharge for other ATs), with proportional damage and endurance cost increases per the standard damage formulas
      • Lowered recharge from 18s to 16s
    • As Stalkers do not have Whirling Hands, they rely entirely on Power Crash for AoE damage
  • Fixed some timing issues
  • Fixed a typo in the description
•  Whirling Hands
  •  Damage increased from scale 1 to scale 1.1819 (it was slightly below what the damage formula dictated)
•  Total Focus 
  • Cast time reduced from 3.3 seconds to 2.53 seconds
  • Total Focus has a 100% chance to grant Energy Focus (even if power misses)
  •  Energy Focus
    • Energy Focus is consumed when casting certain Energy Melee powers in order to provide bonus effects (Energy Focus is not consumed if the power misses)
    • Energy Focus expires after 15 seconds
  • Stalkers / Scrappers only:
    • This power only crits for 28% additional damage, but when it crits, it will also generate a backup Energy Store that will re-activate Energy Focus after the current Energy Focus is used or expires (essentially it provides two stacks of Energy Focus)
  • Fixed timing issues while flying
  • Fixed an animation issue experienced by female characters while flying
•  Energy Transfer
  • Energy Transfer self damage is now 10% of base max HP for all ATs, and no longer costs any endurance
  • Damage is now 100% energy
  • Recharge lowered from 20s to 10s
  • If used with Energy Focus: Cast time reduced from 2.67s to 1.0s
  • Stalkers / Scrappers only:
    • This power only crits for 28% additional damage, but when it crits, it will not only avoid the self-damage, but will actually heals you for 10% of your base Max HP
      • Now deals crit damage at the same level as Total Focus (28%)
    • Crit rate reduced from 20% down to 10% (the standard level)
  • Fixed various vfx and timing issues with the fast version

Stalker Power Order Changes

Spoiler

1.  Barrage
2.  Energy Punch
3.  Bone Smasher
4.  Assassin's Strike
5.  Build Up
6.  Placate
7.  Power Crash (replaces Stun)
8.  Total Focus (moved from T9)
9.  Energy Transfer (moved from T8)

 

Tanker Power Order Changes

Spoiler

1.  Barrage
2.  Energy Punch
3.  Bone Smasher
4. Taunt
5.  Whirling Hands
6.  Total Focus (moved from T9)
7.  Build Up
8.  Power Crash (replaces Stun, moved from T6)
9.  Energy Transfer (moved from T8)

 

Other Changes

• The stun chance for Energy Punch, Barrage and Bone Smasher for Stalkers was lower than the Tanker and Brute versions - this has now been corrected
• The AE version of this powerset has been updated with missing powers and to match current power effects

[ScarySai]

1: The fix to bone smasher solved pretty much all my rotational woes as I toy around with this.

 

2:Giving the effect to barrage at least makes the -special elective, and helps the forced tanker t1 pick to not feel like a waste

 

3: Totally didn't expect the buff to ET, but Its pretty strong without being over the line.

 

This set is ready to launch. The Captain's best work by far.

[Infinitum]

33 minutes ago, ScarySai said:

The Captain's best work by far.

Agree 100%  its chefs kiss