Focused Feedback: Blaster Secondary Revamp

[AxerJ]

So we can no longer have Combat Jumping and Shinobi-iri active at the same time? That seems weird and unnecessary... bit of a defense nerf, eh? 

[Blackbird71]

40 minutes ago, AxerJ said:

So we can no longer have Combat Jumping and Shinobi-iri active at the same time? That seems weird and unnecessary... bit of a defense nerf, eh? 

You can, but the mobility bonus from CJ will take precedence over Shinobi-iri's instead of stacking.  Defense should still stack.

[Rodion]

When this goes live, what happens when I log in a character that has a knockback IO slotted in Force of Thunder, which will get converted to Dynamo, which does not appear to accept KB IOs?

[csr]

3 hours ago, Rodion said:

When this goes live, what happens when I log in a character that has a knockback IO slotted in Force of Thunder, which will get converted to Dynamo, which does not appear to accept KB IOs?

The IO will remain in the new power until you respec, use an Unslotter or simply stomp it.  Only those portions of the IO that could enhance the power will work.  So, for example, a KB->KD IO in Dynamo will do nothing.  (I think Dynamo can use Acc, Dam, Rech, Heal and EndMod.)

Edited November 4, 2020 by csr

[Keleko]

I have a bug report for Reaction Time.  It appears the power is not adding into the total recovery for the character when active.  It shows the value in the list of END recovery, but it is not added into the total.

 

If you add up the numbers in this screenshot the total is short by exactly Reaction Time's value.

 

This is not the case on current Live.

 

It also is felt when playing the character.  I run out of END in a fight very fast.

 

Edited November 4, 2020 by Keleko

[csr]

34 minutes ago, Keleko said:

I have a bug report for Reaction Time.  It appears the power is not adding into the total recovery for the character when active.  It shows the value in the list of END recovery, but it is not added into the total.

 

If you add up the numbers in this screenshot the total is short by exactly Reaction Time's value.

 

This is not the case on current Live.

 

It also is felt when playing the character.  I run out of END in a fight very fast.

 

I just tested this on three toons; my original /Martial test toon, a newly created /Martial Blaster and a toon copied from Indomitable.  I got the same results as Keleko on all of them.  I tried zoning, toggling on-and-off, removing stealth from the equation, turning off all other toggles, and even removing enhancements.  The listed Reaction Time +Rec was never added to the total.  (I updated my previous test post to reflect this - serves me right for only looking at the buff itself to see if it was suppressing.)

[crowdyholman]

So on Tactical Arrow, the bow uses the overlapping weapon slot that the bow does on archery, as well as the left pistol in dual pistols primary. Trick arrow for defenders uses a different costume part, so it doesn't glitch out when you use a set like dual pistols, but blaster's bow glitches out and is invisible if you use tactical arrow mixed with any primary with a left hand weapon. This has been a problem since the birth of the Tactical Arrow set, and I figure now is a good time to bring up the visual glitch. My second fav build to play (second only to Trick Arrow/Dual Pistols) is Dual Pistols/Tactical Arrow, but the bow is invisible in play, and glitchy in the costume creator.

 

Please help! Thanks!

[Keleko]

1 hour ago, csr said:

I just tested this on three toons; my original /Martial test toon, a newly created /Martial Blaster and a toon copied from Indomitable.  I got the same results as Keleko on all of them.  I tried zoning, toggling on-and-off, removing stealth from the equation, turning off all other toggles, and even removing enhancements.  The listed Reaction Time +Rec was never added to the total.  (I updated my previous test post to reflect this - serves me right for only looking at the buff itself to see if it was suppressing.)

As an aside I tested the stealth suppression of the power the other day, and that is working in all cases of stealth I was able to try.  Invisibility, Stealth + SS, SS + Celerity Sprint, Stealth + Celerity Sprint, and iterations with the Base Empower stealth as well. Turning off any mixture to remove full invisibility activated the power, and I was immediately noticed and the power affected them.  Power Analyzer confirmed the mobs were not secretly affected while invisible.

[Keleko]

3 minutes ago, crowdyholman said:

So on Tactical Arrow, the bow uses the overlapping weapon slot that the bow does on archery, as well as the left pistol in dual pistols primary. Trick arrow for defenders uses a different costume part, so it doesn't glitch out when you use a set like dual pistols, but blaster's bow glitches out and is invisible if you use tactical arrow mixed with any primary with a left hand weapon. This has been a problem since the birth of the Tactical Arrow set, and I figure now is a good time to bring up the visual glitch. My second fav build to play (second only to Trick Arrow/Dual Pistols) is Dual Pistols/Tactical Arrow, but the bow is invisible in play, and glitchy in the costume creator.

 

Please help! Thanks!

Don't bring a bow to a gun fight?  ;)

[Blackbird71]

1 hour ago, Keleko said:

Don't bring a bow to a gun fight?  ;)

Unless your opponent is on the other side of a wall.  I'd like to see a pistol shoot up and over.

[Arcadio]

It looks like shinobi skills is critting on inferno for a measly 17.33 damage.

 

 

 

Edited November 5, 2020 by Arcadio

[Bopper]

22 minutes ago, Arcadio said:

It looks like shinobi skills is critting on inferno for a measly 17.33 damage.

 

 

 

Can you provide additional details? What level were you and the target? What was the target's resistance to lethal damage?

 

One thing to keep in mind, the formula for the crit is:

Damage = (0.8 * minmax(power.rechargeTime, 0, 20) + 1.8) * 0.2 * 0.8 * 55.6102 / Area Factor

 

For Inferno, its recharge goes well beyond the 20s threshold. It also has a 25 foot radius, so its Area Factor is 1 + 0.15 * 25 = 4.75

 

Combine that all together, you should see the proc damage to be the following at Level 50:
Damage = (0.8 * 20 + 1.8) * 0.2 * 0.8 * 55.6102 / 4.75 = 33.343

 

Based on your pictoral example, I see you have a Scirocco proc that did 37.3 points of damage. Normally this damage proc does 71.75 damage, so if we scale for comparison:
33.343 * (37.3 / 71.75) = 17.33

 

Seeing as how that matches exactly with what your image shows, it seems the proc is working as intended.

[Vanden]

1 hour ago, Bopper said:

Damage = (0.8 * minmax(power.rechargeTime, 0, 20) + 1.8) * 0.2 * 0.8 * 55.6102 / Area Factor

Slightly off topic, but you could simplify that math. The (0.8 * recharge + 1.8) * 0.2  cancels out through the distributive property to 0.16 * recharge + 0.36.

 

I think someone was playing some kind of mathy prank on Leandro when they gave him the formulas to post.

Edited November 5, 2020 by Vanden

[Bopper]

34 minutes ago, Vanden said:

Slightly off topic, but you could simplify that math. The (0.8 * recharge + 1.8) * 0.2  cancels out through the distributive property to 0.16 * recharge + 0.36.

 

I think someone was playing some kind of mathy prank on Leandro when they gave him the formulas to post.

I only use that formula because it is literally the magnitude expression used in the def files. Your simplification is much preferred.

 

[Arcadio]

1 hour ago, Bopper said:

Can you provide additional details? What level were you and the target? What was the target's resistance to lethal damage?

 

One thing to keep in mind, the formula for the crit is:

Damage = (0.8 * minmax(power.rechargeTime, 0, 20) + 1.8) * 0.2 * 0.8 * 55.6102 / Area Factor

 

For Inferno, its recharge goes well beyond the 20s threshold. It also has a 25 foot radius, so its Area Factor is 1 + 0.15 * 25 = 4.75

 

Combine that all together, you should see the proc damage to be the following at Level 50:
Damage = (0.8 * 20 + 1.8) * 0.2 * 0.8 * 55.6102 / 4.75 = 33.343

 

Based on your pictoral example, I see you have a Scirocco proc that did 37.3 points of damage. Normally this damage proc does 71.75 damage, so if we scale for comparison:
33.343 * (37.3 / 71.75) = 17.33

 

Seeing as how that matches exactly with what your image shows, it seems the proc is working as intended.

Oh I see, ya it's level 50. The patch notes just said ~80% of base damage so that's what I thought I was getting.

[Vanden]

Just now, Bopper said:

I only use that formula because it is literally the magnitude expression used in the def files. Your simplification is much preferred.

Yeah, I have no idea why someone would multiply the formula by 5 and then divide by 5. Without that you can pretty much do the math for single-target attacks in your head, even for weird recharges ending in a half, quarter, or even eighth of a second.

[Bopper]

2 minutes ago, Arcadio said:

Oh I see, ya it's level 50. The patch notes just said ~80% of base damage so that's what I thought I was getting.

It is 80% of base damage if the base damage follows the damage formula exactly and the recharge of the power is 20s or less. It's a mouthful haha. It might not be a bad idea to suggest increasing the maximum allowed recharge to  25s or 30s, instead of 20s.

[Vanden]

28 minutes ago, Bopper said:

It is 80% of base damage if the base damage follows the damage formula exactly and the recharge of the power is 20s or less. It's a mouthful haha. It might not be a bad idea to suggest increasing the maximum allowed recharge to  25s or 30s, instead of 20s.

I think it'd be better to add an entry to every power's data that just records the actual base damage of the power, like I suggested here, so powers like Shinobi don't have to calculate what the base damage probably is based on recharge and AoE. It's potentially a lot of work, but it would make procs like that no less desirable than straight damage buffs, and it would make it a lot easier to implement other creative global procs that do things besides extra damage.

[Replacement]

Thank you for the Devices > Operative alt theme. So frustrating to have a theme character I can't even see (even in combat!).

 

I did some testing with it including with some different toggles running and costume swapping. So far no breaks but none of my testing was focused on combat effects.

[Troo]

On 10/24/2020 at 5:41 AM, Jimmy said:

 Total Focus

• Cast time reduced from 3.3 seconds to 2.53 seconds

Thank you thank you thank you for the reasonable adjustment.

The rest of the EM changes.. meh (more combo mechanics = em/puke)

Having combo mechanics light up the same as insta-snipes = lame

  thanks

 

On 10/24/2020 at 5:41 AM, Jimmy said:

•  Subdual
•  Mind Probe
•  World of Confusion (moved down from from T7)
•  Psychic Scream
•  Concentration
•  Drain Psyche
•  Scare (moved down from T8)
•  Psychic Shockwave (moved down from T9)
•  Telekinetic Thrust (moved up from T3)

Moving the Melee attack from T3 to T9... bye bye defensive knockbock.

Making all the sets too similar is just gross.

 

Edited November 7, 2020 by Troo

[Hew]

5 hours ago, Troo said:

  Thank you thank you thank you for the reasonable adjustment.

The rest of the EM changes.. meh (more combo mechanics = em/puke)

Having combo mechanics light up the same as insta-snipes = lame

 

Moving the Melee attack from T3 to T9... bye bye defensive knockbock.

Making all the sets too similar is just gross.

 

You do know WoC is defensive, right? Or is that intentional oversight. If you have played a plant troller, you would know how powerful confuse is at low level. If not, please be aware it is STUPID strong.

[kelika2]

On 10/24/2020 at 11:17 AM, Eva Destruction said:

I'm not sure of the reasoning behind the Electric Manipulation change.

I do not know their reasons, but to me its just another Cauterizing Aura where I can slap 3 acc/dmg hamis in it, 2 50+++++ heals, and 1 50+++++ end mod and have another DoT to stack with SC and BL.  But now I have to find room for Thunder Strike somehow

[carroto]

On 11/4/2020 at 10:54 PM, Vanden said:

Slightly off topic, but you could simplify that math. The (0.8 * recharge + 1.8) * 0.2  cancels out through the distributive property to 0.16 * recharge + 0.36.

If it were me I would probably do it that way so that the original derivation was preserved.  Documenting it elsewhere could get lost.  Trying to understand the intent from the simplified version would be much harder.  This way is good for those of us who like to look under the hood as well.  It also makes it easier to tweak one of the parameters individually.  I doubt the extra math operations cost enough to matter, so I'd keep it simple for the implementer in the form we see.

[Vanden]

4 hours ago, carroto said:

If it were me I would probably do it that way so that the original derivation was preserved.  Documenting it elsewhere could get lost.  Trying to understand the intent from the simplified version would be much harder.  This way is good for those of us who like to look under the hood as well.  It also makes it easier to tweak one of the parameters individually.

I'm really not sure what you're trying to say here, the two equations are mathematically identical, one is just a lot easier to wrap your head around.

[Coyote]

16 hours ago, Hew said:

You do know WoC is defensive, right? Or is that intentional oversight. If you have played a plant troller, you would know how powerful confuse is at low level. If not, please be aware it is STUPID strong.

 

Uh, Arctic Air is good, but not stupid strong. AA can have about 65% uptime on even-cons of LT level (50% on higher cons). With a much larger radius and a -Recharge debuff.

WoC can have about 75% uptime on even cons but only up to minion level (about 60% on higher cons), with a much smaller radius and no debuff.

 

WoC is a lot weaker than AA. AA is a good power, one of the main defenses of an Ice Controller, but not a great power. And WoC is a lot weaker.

 

Comparing it to what is probably the best single AoE mez in the game... is not warranted. Just because they're both AoE Confuse powers and would both be available at low levels is not enough reason to compare WoC to Seeds of Pwnership.