Weekly Discussion 77: Designing an Epic Archetype for Praetorian Earth

[GM ColdSpark]

Happy Sunday everyone! Last week you had a good old chat about Assault Rifle Sets that feel underpowered and are in need of an emergency buff... Writeup is here

 

This week I thought lets break away from current sets and let our creative juices go wild...

 

Weekly discussion 77 Week 15th Nov till 21st Nov 2020

YOU VOTED: Let's talk about - Designing an Epic Archetype for Praetorian Earth

 

Things you could consider:

• The lore
• The look
• The powerset(s)
• How you'd balance it whilst giving it its own unique-ness
• (Any of the artists out there that want to throw a sketch up I'd love to see those too!)

 

Remember if you have suggestions for future topics to go into the next vote pool, pop me a direct message and I'll add it to the list. People who offer up a suggestion that is subsequently chosen will receive an in game title for the character of their choice

 

And with that - lets chat! 🙂

Edited November 15, 2020 by GM ColdSpark

[Blastit]

So okay, since EATs are all built around representing a specific thing that happened in the CoH universe... what would be Praetorian Earth's specific thing? What unique event would result in the archetype? Anti-Hamidon tech? A specific kind of Praetorian super-soldier? An accident during a lab raid?

 

You could consider a new breed of superhero-soldiers created by researching Devouring Earth weaponry, with a big plant and bio-armour theme, under the leadership of a brilliant but eccentric scientist who finally got their time to shine but had the whole project come crashing down because the anti-mind-control tech was too strong so they couldn't be brainwashed and instead all went their own way. We've got an alien energy EAT, a tech/psychic EAT and a plant-ish EAT wouldn't overlap even though they do overlap with the whole laboratory manipulation schtick. But that's just something that comes very naturally to Praetorian Earth so maybe it's okay. Not sure what they would do mechanically other than maybe be some kind of scrapper-dominator hybrid sort of thing. A dash of duplication, maybe?

 

Unless there's some magic-themed thing you could do? A spell that goes awry, a pact that is made and has unforeseen consequences for everyone involved, something like that. The devil and the dealer both tricking each other. A possessed archetype could be interesting too. Whatever happened to the Praetorian Circle of Thorns? If they're gone, maybe some unwise digging around brought remnants back in an unorganised way that didn't obliterate the free will of the possessed.

[The_Warpact]

Well if we go with the lore of Praetoria there are several ways a new AT could come about.

 

Tellurian Plague; a mix of a dominator/defender with DE like attacks, debuffs, holds, especially with "plant" based attacks.

Seed pods, spore burst, a spirit tree like power that is a aoe debuff, ranged plant attacks and melee attacks with a DoT "infection" debuff. With an inherent called Infection that reduces resist that stacks the longer a fight goes on.

 

Midnighter; a mix of blaster/controller with magic themed powers based through an item ie; a wand or staff with different choices in CC. Powers could be designed after in game attacks ie; fire, lightning, force, or psi.

"Darkened Path" would be a travel power just for this AT, a TP like power like the paths in 1st Ward it could do cross zone travel and to mission door. 

Inherent would be called Magick it would dependent upon origin so if you are science, technology, or mutant enemies you get a bonus vs those origins that stacks.

Natural, and magic would get a bonus that doesn't stack.

 

Soldier/Seer a branching AT just like Veats, that branches into two vastly different choices. 

Seer would be a blaster/MM type with ranged psi attacks and MM pets. Inherent would be Precognative a higher base defense and recovery.

Soldier would be a melee/blaster with attacks centered around their rifle, with blasts but also bayonet and rifle butt attacks, with armor that is S/L and psi resist. Inherent would be Strengthened, has higher base resists and regen.

 

Was also thing thinking about an AT called the Created, which centered around the Ghouls.

Would be melee all the way with a higher base regen and resist armor. Inherent would be Survive a stacking regen based on team size and if a team member dies it would be a Vengeance like bonus to the Created, just like when ghouls die they give heal/buff to other ghouls.

 

Just my ideas, our VG has been doing missions in Praetoria and we are in 1st Ward now. My controller is based on a Tellurian plague infected person, and I have obviously been thinking about Praetoria. In all seriousness, like @Piecemealis the dev for Villains, I wish I was the dev for Praetoria lol.

I'd love to created a zone for Hamidon, missions, arcs, etc all related to it. But, I have zero programming skills, just ideas, .....sigh lol.

Edited November 15, 2020 by The_Warpact
Grammar

[Six-Six]

Ooh. I like where this is going. I was fairly disappointed that I can't start spiders over on gold-side. It would require a bit of mulling over in my thinking chair for me. Of course we should have a REAT (Resistance) and LEAT (Loyalist) variants as we do Heroes and Villains. And they should be an entirely new AT in the sense that HEATs and VEATs are different from the other ATs (or more like a conglomerate of them).

(thinking out loud to jumpstart the noggin...)
Either one could be a product of BAF, Lambda or Mother Mayhem's. Resistance were escapees or rescued from said institutions, and Loyalist would be integrated into the Powers division as candidates for the Praetorian Guard. The Devouring Earth and Hamidon are great springboards for concepts. Then there are also the denizens of First and Night Ward that are equally interesting are still part of Praetoria.

Speaking of concepts, my current toon at the moment is a Vanquisher. a special (rip-off of Star Wars Clone Troopers) force created to protect Preatoria from the Devouring Earth. Once the Hamidon Wars ended, they were absorbed into the Powers Division. They're just "enhanced" humans in the same vein as SoAs. Right now I settled on a blapper (though I also have a dom and a Fender lined up) that can attack at range and melee as they choose. It would be cool to have an AT that can use not only range and melee, but elemental or psi attacks or control with weapons as well with a fair share of armour. (Now might be a good time to introduce arm or shoulder mounted Beam Rifles... just saying) So basically an SoA with the added elemental blasts and diff armour set (WP, SR???). Liberators would be the Resistance version could be similar like WS are to PBs: more stealth based powers, maybe a touch of Fenders/Trollers?

Here's where I'm coming from (more thinking out loud). HEATs and VEATs don't really have unique powers, but they do have unique power sets. Basically...
SoA = Ass Rifle + Nades (huntsman), Mace + Energy Blast (bane), Claws + Energy Blast (crab) or any combination of two + pets + Leadership + armour + stealth
Widows = claws + psi or psi + mind + leadership + armour + stealth
PB and WS (sorry, haven't played much of WSs) = energy blasters + energy melee + res or dark blast + dark melee + res both with a bit of control.

Hence we can make
LEATs = MM + Fender + Blapper + a bit of armour
REATs = Sentinels/Blasters + dom/troller + stalker
Both can have inherent Fighting Pool which when double dipped increases the damage of Box, Kick, and Cross Punch as well as stacks Tough and Weave.

That's all I got for now 😃 

[Piecemeal]

Oh, I've had ideas for returning to the infested Praetoria.

 

But I think it'll take a lot of convincing, because there was Prae-Fatigue before sunset. And the scope of anything else there would be iTrial huge 😄

[Hew]

Two PEATS:

 

Straight up DE hybrid (literally gene-spliced with DE)

 

Genegineering weapons for a blastery sort char

 

Idea here is that one side Might would hybridize humans for power regardless of human sacrifice, whereas Right would genegineer weaponry in light of the vast power of Hami, but not at the cost of human sacrifice.

[InvaderStych]

1 hour ago, Piecemeal said:

Oh, I've had ideas for returning to the infested Praetoria.

 

But I think it'll take a lot of convincing, because there was Prae-Fatigue before sunset. And the scope of anything else there would be iTrial huge 😄

 

Already convinced.  I'm one of those oddballs that loves Goldside, and would love to see more content in that direction.

 

As to PEATs, lots of interesting ideas already on deck.  Going to have to mull it over.

 

FWIW: My most recent gold-sider is an Elec/SD stalker who's "lore" is that it was built as a joint WarWorks/Seer collaboration for taking on the enemies of the state.  Until it became self aware, stopped taking orders, and started making its own decisions before heading off to FW/NW.

 

 

"Cured" Ghouls and freed Seers might be interesting jumping off points - just to throw something against the wall.

Edited November 15, 2020 by InvaderStych

[Psychopithicus]

Hmm, already some neat ideas here. Let me see what I can add.

 

The way I see the HEATs and VEATs is that each gives spotlight to (and, in the case of the former, introducing) a lesser-explored concept in the CoHverse, namely the Kheldian lore on Blueside and Operation DESTINY on Redside. Each EAT is given powersets and abilities that no other AT has access to, which is what lets them stand out. With this in mind, here are some of my ideas (and I may be echoing some that were already said):

-Given Praetoria's current state in the lore, a PEAT-specific early-level storyline could involve a survivor's journey to the Last Bastion and, in turn, Primal Earth. Following their arrival on Primal Earth and foray into mid-to-later-level storylines, they could face some of the anti-Praetorian fatigue prejudice seen in bits of the New Praetorians arc, maybe even a vigilante/villain group that wants to do away with or exploit displaced Praetorians.

-Having the PEAT be some form of Infested/DE would make sense, and if the above story ideas were to be used, the player could be given some imperfect cure or whatnot that gives them free will but allows them to keep the Infested/DE powers (a la Devoured Pyriss). DE biographies state that all of them can do the Bee Attack seen in Savage Assault and Beast Mastery, so there may be a jumping-off point there given what's already in the game (I would also like to mention that I am far from a programmer and am talking entirely out of my rear end if I go into tech stuff at all).

-Through Bobcat's bio, we learn that militaries were doing gene-splicing experiments to fight Hami, hence Bobcat's cat-abilities. Something similar could be explored through a PEAT, maybe even working in the abandoned Primalist AT for this scenario.

-The "sides" aspect of Praetoria could be represented by having one EAT each for Resistance and Loyalists, but I have zero ideas for how that can work story-wise (maybe give Ouro some story focus, idk).

 

I'm gonna cut myself off here so I don't go on all day, but I'm looking forward to seeing what people come up with and/or what comes of this down the pike.

[starro]

2 hours ago, Piecemeal said:

Oh, I've had ideas for returning to the infested Praetoria.

 

But I think it'll take a lot of convincing, because there was Prae-Fatigue before sunset. And the scope of anything else there would be iTrial huge 😄

I agree.  No going back beyond mentioning/lore.  Forward to the Coming Storm (or something else).

[Darmian]

The only real Prae Fatigue was the devs not wanting to do it. (Tied to the classic mistake of bottlenecking their end storyline into one thing.)

 

And a resounding vote for SOMETHING ELSE.  Or at least a version of the Coming Storm that isn't shackled to whatever the original devs were planning/talking about.

Edited November 15, 2020 by Darmian

[Terminal]

A Talons of Vengeance Epic, based on the Oracles/Sybils.

 

In-game, the Sybils use more or less player-scale-model compatible animations, and they have some uniquely interesting powers including summoning meteors, flow lightning, eruptions, etcetera. They also creeped into the Praetorian Storyline and sort of engulfed it starting in First Ward, so there's plenty of thematic/Goldside representation. I freely admit I have no idea how their sets would at all function or be balanced, I just really, really want an AT that can straight-up drop meteors on a fool. 👓 

Edited November 15, 2020 by Terminal

[Darmian]

4 minutes ago, Terminal said:

A Talons of Vengeance Epic, based on the Oracles/Sybils.

 

In-game, the Sybils use more or less player-scale-model compatible animations, and they have some uniquely interesting powers including summoning meteors, flow lightning, eruptions, etcetera. They also creeped into the Praetorian Storyline and sort of engulfed it starting in First Ward, so there's plenty of thematic/Goldside representation. I freely admit I have no idea how their sets would at all function or be balanced, I just really, really want an AT that can straight-up drop meteors on a fool. 👓 

A tie in to the Furies perhaps, since Angels of Vengeance can still be seen wandering the Wards?

[ZorkNemesis]

I was thinking about this the other day, and I would love to see an IDF EAT.  Start off as a PPD or TEST Ranger while advancing through the main stories of Praetoria, and after a certain point you can swap into a Ranger (IDF or DUST) or Heavy Commander (with the rocket backpacks) with both sides being able to summon battle orbs or even TEST/DUST reinforcements.  After leaving Praetoria, they could maintain contact with their EAT contact and continue performing operations on Primal Earth, either setting up sabotage for the IDF or perhaps providing intel or support to bolster the Primals.

[The Volt]

Maybe you could do something along the lines of the Olympian Guard. Perhaps give us access to the cool Cutting Beam/Laser Eyes animation. To throw in some variety, perhaps have powers based off of Praetor Duncan and throw in some Whip Melee (with the AT's unique story being that they are made for Duncan's protection and such)

[UpandAtom]

Obviously, the eternal war between Anti-matter's clockwork and Neuron's clockwork must be waged by PEAT clockworks.

[Nylithe]

I would suggest something thematic and unique to Praetoria in the way that the kheldian's and Arachnos are unique to Heroes / Villains. You have the Syndicate, the Carnival of light, the Black Knights(My personal lean.). I would mention the police and the seers, less of the former than the latter, but honestly I feel like they both would just be copies of Arachnos soldier's and Widow's ability wise. After that clockwork maybe using something from metronome's tampering.

 

This is just spit-balling, I wouldn't really know how we'd go about their power pools, but it would be hard to find a specific concept with the above that can flip flop between loyalist and resistance. Black knight's only become relevant in night ward, carnival are mentioned but not seen until first ward truly. Syndicate have been shown to play both sides, and Seers have been seen on both sides. I guess making a resistance soldier and loyalist police archtypes could be a thing, that maybe evolve into something like the carnival or seers depending on which? Not sure how you'd go about making them unique in earnest.

[Nylithe]

11 hours ago, Piecemeal said:

Oh, I've had ideas for returning to the infested Praetoria.

 

But I think it'll take a lot of convincing, because there was Prae-Fatigue before sunset. And the scope of anything else there would be iTrial huge 😄

I really do hope we go back at some point, I realize hamidon is the potential big bad in maybe the ruins of the city. But maybe we could jump to like a massive cyberpunk esque city where Neuron and Antimatter have ran to and have aggressively invented and scaled everything before hamidon and the vanguard reaches them or something.

[tidge]

16 hours ago, Blastit said:

So okay, since EATs are all built around representing a specific thing that happened in the CoH universe... what would be Praetorian Earth's specific thing?

Praetorian EAT should by Hamidon (or Hybrid) EAT... HEAT. Or Preatorian EAT, PEAT.

 

Give the characters the chance to hybridize one of several different ways, based on Devouring Earth paths.

[Troo]

The idea of Devouring Earth themed or based is intriguing. I would love to see something in this vein.

 

Nictus is a bit too easy. Vampire like Kheldians that feed off life energy.

Nictus power options and Peacebringer examples

Spoiler

 

Flight Self fly
Nictus entities can Fly.

Brawl (Melee, Smash/Negative) Foe -Recharge, -Speed

Dark Nova Emanation (Ranged, Negative) Foe -Recharge, -Speed
Attack and movement speed reduced

Dark Nova Detonation (Ranged) Foe -Recharge, -Speed
Attack and movement speed reduced

Gravimetric Snare (Ranged, Damage over Time, Negative) Foe Immobilize, -Recharge, -Speed
Immobilize and attack and movement rate Slowed

Gravitic Emanation Foe Disorient, -Recharge, -Speed
Disoriented and attack and movement rate slowed

Resistance Auto, Self +Resistances: Energy, Negative Energy
Nictus entities are resistant to Energy and Negative Energy damage.

Essence Drain Foe -Recharge, -Speed
Drained essence to heal. attack and movement rate slowed

Umbral Shield Toggle: Self +Resistance (All but Psionics)
Shield Protects from all damage types except Psionics.

Absorption Auto: Self +Resistance (Energies)
Absorb energy and negative energy and are resistant to such damage.

Black Dwarf

Black Dwarf Strike (Melee) Foe -Recharge, -SPD

Black Dwarf Smite (Melee) Foe Disorient, -Recharge, -SPD, -Fly

Black Dwarf Drain (Melee) Foe -Recharge, -SPD
The Black Dwarf has Drained life to heal itself.

Black Dwarf Mire (PBAoE) Foe -Recharge, -SPD
The Black Dwarf has Drained life to buff it's strength.

Dark Nova

Flight Self fly

Dark Nova Emanation (Ranged) Foe -Recharge, -Speed

Dark Nova Blast (Ranged) Foe -Recharge, -Speed

Dark Nova Detonation (Ranged) Foe -Recharge, -Speed

Dark Nova Bolt (Ranged) Foe -Recharge, -Speed

 

Something along the lines of a Dark version of:

Peacebringer Luminous Blast

	Power	Level	Effect
	Gleaming Bolt	1	Ranged, Minor Damage (Energy), Foe -Defense
	Glinting Eye	1	Ranged, Moderate Damage (Energy), Foe -Defense
	Gleaming Blast	2	Ranged, High Damage (Energy), Foe: -Defense, Knockback
	Bright Nova	6	Toggle: Shapeshift, Special
	Radiant Strike	6	Melee, Superior Damage (Smash/Energy), Foe: -Defense, -Fly, Knockback
	Proton Scatter	8	Ranged (Cone), Moderate Damage (Energy), Foe: -Defense
	Inner Light	12	Self: +Damage, +To Hit
	Luminous Detonation	12	Ranged (Targeted Area of Effect), Moderate Damage (Energy), Foe: -Defense, Knockback
	Incandescent Strike	18	Melee, Extreme Damage (Smash/Energy), Foe: Hold, -Defense, -Fly, Knockdown
	Pulsar	18	Point Blank Area of Effect, Foe Disorient
	Glowing Touch	26	Ally Heal
	Solar Flare	26	Melee (Point Blank Area of Effect), High Damage (Energy), Foe: -Defense, Knockback
	Photon Seekers	32	Summon Drones: Ranged Special, High Damage (Energy)
	Dawn Strike	32	Point Blank Area of Effect, Extreme Damage (Energy), Foe: -Defense, Knockback, Self: -Recovery

 

Peacebringer Luminous Aura

	Power	Level	Effect
	Incandescence	1	Auto: Self +Resistance (Energy, Negative Energy)
	Shining Shield	2	Toggle: Self: +Resistance(Smash, Lethal)
	Essence Boost	4	Self: Heal, +Max Health, +Resistance(Toxic)
	Thermal Shield	10	Toggle: Self: +Resistance(Fire, Cold)
	Quantum Shield	14	Toggle: Self: +Resistance(Energy, Negative Energy)
	Group Energy Flight	16	Toggle: Team Fly
	White Dwarf	20	Toggle: Shapeshift, +Resistance(All but Psychic) +Status Protection +Endurance Recovery
	Reform Essence	22	Self Heal
	Conserve Energy	24	Self Endurance Discount
	Quantum Acceleration	24	Toggle: Self +FlySpeed, Res(-Fly), +Def(All), +Flight Control
	Quantum Flight	28	Toggle: Self: Fly, +Intangible
	Restore Essence	35	Self Rez
	Light Form	38	Self, +Resistance(Disorient, Sleep, Hold, Immobilize, Knockback, All Damage except Psionics))

 

Edited November 16, 2020 by Troo

[ForeverLaxx]

There's a lot of space within the lore of Praetoria to build a potential AT from. The most obvious would be something Hamidon-related, which can be those who have "broken free" of the hive mind state or perhaps are still part of the swarm and working to undermine hero/villain efforts in other dimensions to facilitate another takeover. These can either be something similar to the VEATs with "specializations" that allow a character to branch (hah, puns) into one of multiple paths, depending on how the person wants to run it, or it can be something completely new that offers a play experience/combination we don't really have yet.

 

Beyond that you've got the option to convert factions into something playable. Ghouls are probably the best from the faction bunch, especially considering Noble Savage exists to give them purpose and not just succumb to their feral instincts, though building a powerset around them that isn't just a Savage/Something Scrapper could be tricky. Talons might be next on that list, though most of them are just bow/sword users and off the top of my head I can't think of any reason why you'd be able to play as one considering their backstory.

 

However, all of that is the obvious stuff. What I might like to see, besides the Devouring Earth-inspired direction, would be something related to Shadow Hunter and the shadow beasts. You could play as a Spirit Stalker that has gained it's free will back (or not), and is able to shapeshift into various animal and humanoid forms for different powers, kind of like the Kheldians.

[Troo]

I thought there was a Coralax AT roughed out maybe that could be combined with some DE concepts/powers for an EAT.

 

Alternately, if there was a way to have a Paladin type EAT created from Praetorian lore that could be cool.

[InvaderStych]

1 hour ago, Troo said:

Alternately, if there was a way to have a Paladin type EAT created from Praetorian lore that could be cool.

 

Two Words:

 

Living Spells.

 

Thinking this through as I write, so it will be very rough

 

Some sort of previously unseen type that can mimic human form; borrow the idea of "forms" from pb/ws so costume creator can remain relevant although some sort of "humanoid energy" being sub-set of costume options would be interesting, if a lot more work.  Easier to borrow and recolor assets from other places.

 

Form shifts could represent branching paths ala VEATs - could use existing ones: Fireball, Ball of Light, Ice Ball, etc.  Creating new (read more potent, read worth being player characters not rando minions) ones would be more interesting.  Full on elementals perhaps? 

 

Ok, maybe one branch rolls like an MM light - shift to a form and X number more of those appear with you, though combinations would be more flexible.  Bamf yourself into "Forbidden Knowledge" and get a couple Fireballs and a Ball of Light with iPet control options.

 

Other branch focuses more on individual potency - IIRC one of the Living Spell arcs has the player chasing down one that is becoming too strong to be left alone?  I'd have to go back and look. 

 

Either way, taking that path, perhaps filling one of the role combinations that have popped up on the boards frequently, like support/melee for example.  Though perhaps that isn't a good example, because why would a collection of sentient magical energy want have a fist fight?  It does feel like something that would have more of a utility/debuff/control role?  Perhaps primary and secondary here are given branches here as with the MM light version.  That one chooses pet combinations, this one is more of a choice of "do I want this block of blasts, or do I want this block of controls" in the secondary, and "do I want this block of debuffs or do I want this block of buffs" in the primary.  Both on top of a few base powers before the choice is made.

 

Ok, if you actually read that, thanks for following my ramblings.  TLDR: I really enjoy the Living Spell arcs and contacts. 🤣

 

 

[Piecemeal]

8 hours ago, Nylithe said:

I really do hope we go back at some point, I realize hamidon is the potential big bad in maybe the ruins of the city. But maybe we could jump to like a massive cyberpunk esque city where Neuron and Antimatter have ran to and have aggressively invented and scaled everything before hamidon and the vanguard reaches them or something.

Plot-wise, Neuron is MIA and Anti-Matter committed seppuku in the Underground. Metronome now runs Anti-Matter's space station.

[Blackfeather]

14 minutes ago, Piecemeal said:

Plot-wise, Neuron is MIA and Anti-Matter committed seppuku in the Underground. Metronome now runs Anti-Matter's space station.

Didn't Bobcat kill Neuron a while back?

[Darmian]

I have a question here: Simply put, if you're not going to be in Praetoria as a full Praetorian, then what is the point of this entire thread?  What VEATs and HEATs we have really come into their own after 20, and presumably a variety of Gold EAT will do the same. So I doubt the 1 to 20 arc from Nova to Neutropolis is going to radically change, so the majority of Gold origin toons will leave at 20ish for Primal earth and that then ties them tenuously into the arc for the New Praetorians or the Rogue Isles equivalent.  And from then on they are, effectively, Primal toons apart from what badges they earn.  That's it. 

But it doesn't have to be like that.

 

We, know and it is done, that characters can continue on as Praetorians after 20 via First Ward and into Night Ward. Setting PEAT storyline here would I think be far more interesting, and lead on further than just trying to slot them into parallel arcs that exist for Rift crossers at level 20. Indeed a secondary option to cross to Primal WITHOUT naturalizing as such around level 40 would provide a lot of interesting content. (Why should they not naturalize? Well, Primals can wander in and out of Praetoria at will without ever being required to lose their contacts or background from Level 1, asking that a Praetorian be accorded at least that at level 40(!) is hardly unreasonable I feel.)

 

And yes, I do have a vested interest in this since a majority of my toons are Gold, if you're going to go that route post 20 with PEATS you have to offer the same incentives to those who follow that route who are not PEATS.

 

Again, It really boils down to the 20s.  If you're going to end up leaving, and no work is done to allow for not, I really don't see the point of this.