The state of warshades.

[Calzano]

So I have never played a warshade or peacebringer so I decided to make a warshade just for the heck of it. I have been asking sg mates about it and 90% of them just say don’t bother because they are trash. I’m just wondering is warshade really bottom tier of all archtypes? Is it really that bad?

[The_Warpact]

2 minutes ago, Calzano said:

I’m just wondering is warshade really bottom tier of all archtypes? Is it really that bad?

Nope, Sentinel holds that spot 😉

 

WS aren't that bad, they are good on a team, they aren't Uber by any means, so your not going to be soloing AV's.

I have a human form, that is geared towards eliminating enemies just to harvest them for pets, so its like a multiple negative nrg blaster.

 

Roll one, make a build on Mids, figure out if you want to be a tri/duo or human only and lvl it up.

That's the best way to determine if you like it.

[Doomrider]

44 minutes ago, Calzano said:

So I have never played a warshade or peacebringer so I decided to make a warshade just for the heck of it. I have been asking sg mates about it and 90% of them just say don’t bother because they are trash. I’m just wondering is warshade really bottom tier of all archtypes? Is it really that bad?

Warshades and Peacebringers are not trash. They only got better on homecoming and under the current PPM proc system. People who say they are trash generally tend to view them as trash because they (the classes) are generalist jack of all trades, and this attitude typically comes from a place of ignorance or a "they didn't work for me therefore they are garbage" kind of mindstate. 

 

That being said, both classes but particularly Warshades are a lot of work to put together, build, set up and play optimally and this understandably, turns off a lot of people. 

On the other hand, if you like frantic/busy playstyles, they can be quite rewarding to build and play. 

 

One thing they really excel at though, is exemplar play. Strong from level 6 through the rest of early/mid game. It's only at incarnate levels do they tend to pale in comparison to other combos.

 

If u want to try it, go for it. The bar for success in COH is so low, I really don't understand why some players choose to shame others or say certain classes don't bring anything to a team. Play your class well, build right and anything works.

Edited December 30, 2020 by Doomrider

[chi1701]

Suppose the biggest problem with warshade, which can be shared with dark powers, is its reliance on both living and dead mobs to maximise their damage and regain health, and some mobs simply disappear when defeated which can be irritating.

[Nemeroff]

Not trash.

 

Can be complex but that's what I like about them. The options.

 

On Live Kheldians were accessed only after lvl 50. Not so much as a reward but by that time you're familiar enough with the game and know how to play.

 

Using Mids b/c ATM I can't access the game,

You're Primary Set has 14 powers to choose from. Secondary Set 13 powers to choose from. Available slots is 80.

If you go WS Dark Nova (the flying squid/blaster-mode) that's one power selection but it open 4 shooting abilities and each ability can be slotted. Dark Nova (the lobster/tank-mode) is one power but opens 6 melee abilities.

In total it's 37 power OPTIONS but in the finished build you only get 24 powers.

 

(It's minor but because travel powers are inherent (Teleport/Fly) the respective Travel Power Pools are greyed out ingame but available on Mids.)

 

In the story arc it's explained how Quantums and Voids are you're arch enemies. To them you're nearly a one-shot kill; if not in Dwarf form.

 

Whereas using all 3 forms is an option I'd recommend it. If you want to tank, role a tank. If you want to shoot, be a blaster. If you want to be a versatile Swiss Army knife of talents, role a Tri-Form Kheldian. I prefer the WS.

 

EDIT:

You can do all human. Human+squid. Human+lobster. Or human+squid+lobster the "tri-form". Find builds on the site, use the form shifting binds, but by all means

Read. Read. Read

Edited December 30, 2020 by Nemeroff

[mcdoogss]

1 hour ago, chi1701 said:

Suppose the biggest problem with warshade, which can be shared with dark powers, is its reliance on both living and dead mobs to maximise their damage and regain health, and some mobs simply disappear when defeated which can be irritating.

For me its that but also so many good versatile powers are pbaoe or melee and human form, but warshade’s lack mez protection in human form. 
 

at least light form has mez protection

Edited December 30, 2020 by mcdoogss

[Mr. Vee]

My human only WS is one of my favorite characters but definitely not for everyone. I don't particularly care for my PB.

[mcdoogss]

2 hours ago, Veelectric Boogaloo said:

My human only WS is one of my favorite characters but definitely not for everyone. I don't particularly care for my PB.

Interesting, i shelved my human warshade at 50 but enjoy my human perma Lightform PB.  Different strokes right?  I just can’t stand being in melee or even mostly in melee without mez protection 

[Zepp]

One thing that helps is learning how to use Macros and Binds, for example I keep these three macros in the 8-9-0 slots for my first three trays:
/Macro_Image "UmbralAura_Antagonize" "Human" "PowExecToggleOff Dark Nova$$PowExecToggleOff Black Dwarf$$GoToTray 1"

/Macro_Image "ArchetypeIcon_Warshade" "Squid" "PowExecToggleOn Dark Nova$$GoToTray 2"
/Macro_Image "AlignmentPower_FearIncarnate" "Lobster" "PowExecToggleOn Black Dwarf$$GoToTray 3"

(Macro_Image icon names can be found here - https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1uHUi6BWFTYj4wbfGBs3LjZL88Fym6B-8EwDr18YZcY8/edit#gid=852710698 ).

 

This makes it really easy to manage my form changes with appropriate trays and cases where the tray flips but the toggle doesn't change.

Warshades also got a recent upgrade to their TP powers, so those are nice to play with as well (and are even better with PowExecLocation macros or binds).

Warshades are good, but require more strategy and thought than most other ATs in the game.

[Mr. Vee]

1 hour ago, mcdoogss said:

Interesting, i shelved my human warshade at 50 but enjoy my human perma Lightform PB.  Different strokes right?  I just can’t stand being in melee or even mostly in melee without mez protection 

I use defensive amplifier on everything and am ranged softcapped on both. Rarely does a mez get through and when it does I hit the hybrid melee core or use a bf if I'm exemped. I even respecced out of light form on the pb since I never needed it. I just don't like it because of activation times.

[Gulbasaur]

On 12/30/2020 at 5:35 PM, Doomrider said:

One thing they really excel at though, is exemplar play. Strong from level 6 through the rest of early/mid game. It's only at incarnate levels do they tend to pale in comparison to other combos.

That's a really nice way of putting it and something I think people overlook - a lot of builds I see posted would totally fall apart when exemplared, with builds that only work with incarnates for endurance management.

 

Kheldians scale strangely with several milestone powers that are game-changers more than most (although some support sets come close) and an awful lot of filler if you're trying to keep it tight. Nova form gives you very respectable damage output very early on and Dwarf form is one of the strongest tanks at its level (on a par with most resistance-based tankers, ahead of some) with good enough aggro control to pass muster. They have a lot of "dead levels", in my opinion... but they also rocket in power at certain milestones.

 

Kheldians really can slot in wherever, even if they need some TLC to be on top.

[Greycat]

Rule 1, ignore any opinion that just says "X is trash."  Sometimes it's just something that didn't click with the user, often it's something they haven't even tried (or tried for long, I've had several conversations that were "... and I quit playing that by level 8-12,")  but have just passed on something heard elsewhere. Yes, there are some times something really *is,* but it's actually really rare - but can be backed up when it is (see Time Bomb.)

 

Warshades, as mentioned above, are complex. Back on live, when someone was interested in a Kheld, I generally advised going with a Peacebringer first - not because they're "better," but because they're completely self contained - all heals, buffs, rezzes, etc. are clicks you can use alone or when surrounded by friends - or enemies. You don't have to worry about mobs, corpses, which powers work on living vs dead enemies, if a body's goign to disappear before your animation figures, etc. It lets you figure out "basic Kheldian mechanics" like shifting without that.  Single, bi and triform, the works. Plus things like dealing with slot crunch, especially as a Triform.

 

*Then* I'd have them try a Warshade. A Warshade's more of a roller coaster. It can get some seriously impressive highs, but it can also get into situations it's really in a disadvantage at (longer solo fight against a single tough enemy, for instance.) It took me longer to really get a *grasp* on Warshades and use them effectively - but now they're one of my absolute favourites.

 

People are also going to really overblow (a) knockback and (b) quantums. The latter (along with voids and cysts) were more common and much tougher on live. To beat them now, just pay attention to your surroundings. For the former? Pay attention to your positioning, done. But people will use both to complain. *shrug*

 

My advice... yes, try them for yourself. They may not be your thing, and that's fine. If they are, though, you're going to have a *lot* of fun.

[BurtHutt]

I really liked my WS but it does rely heavily on enemy bodies. This hits home big time when you're doing a boss fight and all of the minions have been dispatched...the WS will be in a bit of trouble!

 

This is why PBs are one of my fave ATs. Versatile and a lot of fun. WS are too but when you get to those button mashing battles and the only one left is the boss...well...I prefer the PB!

[dtj714]

Well, let's see -

 

1. A ranged form with a better damage scale than a blaster and inherent fly. Yea, that sucks.

2. A melee form that can tank well up to end-game with inherent status protection and TP. Yea, that sucks.

3. The ability to routinely buff yourself to damage, hit, and resist caps; and refill your HP and End.  Yea, that sucks.

4. The ability to do all of these things in conjunction with one another.  Yea, that really sucks.

 

Yes, you need bodies (both alive and dead). So go get (make) some.  Always try to leave yourself something to eat...

 

I don't recommend leveling as human-only (tried it, hated it). But human-only at 50 can also be pretty bad-ass, IMHO.

[Doomrider]

Speaking of trash... Here is my WS taking it out. 

This could be you.

---

 

[dtj714]

2 hours ago, Doomrider said:

 

Speaking of trash... Here is my WS taking it out. 

This could be you.

---

 

Doom, what’s your sequence in that vid?  Following the icons it looks like Eclipse > Mire > Quasar > Gravitic, but there seem to be (FX at least) for multiple mires and back-to-back Gravitics. 

[Doomrider]

1 hour ago, dtj714 said:

Doom, what’s your sequence in that vid?  Following the icons it looks like Eclipse > Mire > Quasar > Gravitic, but there seem to be (FX at least) for multiple mires and back-to-back Gravitics. 

It was actually dwarf mire > eclipse > sunless > quasar > dwarf mire > nova emanation > gravitic.

It's sneaky fast I know. That's the beauty of macros.

 

The second dwarf mire wasn't really needed, just habit.

 

Edited January 1, 2021 by Doomrider

[dtj714]

3 hours ago, Doomrider said:

It was actually dwarf mire > eclipse > sunless > quasar > dwarf mire > nova emanation > gravitic.

It's sneaky fast I know. That's the beauty of macros.

 

The second dwarf mire wasn't really needed, just habit.

 

I’ll have to go find one of your macro posts then. I literally see you change forms once (nova to fly in lol). I knew form attacks in “human” were possible, but not on such a rapid, consistent basis.  Do you have ultra-fast internet?

[bustacap]

On live and Homecoming I am an altaholic. However, on live, I wanted to play a WS, so I leveled a AR/Dev blaster to 50 so I could roll one. I got him to 50 made a non purple triform perma ellipse build I made on Mids. However Arcana did a forum contest which I came in 3rd which one me a purple set (I got the last set not picked by the 1st and 2nd placed winners). I then unlocked the alpha. The only thing that could kill me was energy drain and slows (my build had very little defense since everything I had was dedicated to recharge for eclipse and nova attack chain since we only had 4 attacks then). Then the game ended before I could upgrade to a build with defense and recharge.  

 

I always liked WS more than PB since WS had less kb (only one unique KD  IO existed on live). Also eclipse... I'd play a new one to 50 again but I can't find the macros I liked on live and unlike other classes you really need macros/keybinds you like to make the class playable. That is why the epic archetypes were gated to 50's.

 

The mez>eclipse>human mire>dwarf mire> nova >raise a pet> eat the souls of the dead;  just seems so complicated now a days I'd probably go human form only now. Especially when you consider the feats that Blasters can get to now. 

 

 

Edited January 2, 2021 by bustacap

[Doomrider]

14 hours ago, dtj714 said:

I’ll have to go find one of your macro posts then. I literally see you change forms once (nova to fly in lol). I knew form attacks in “human” were possible, but not on such a rapid, consistent basis.  Do you have ultra-fast internet?

I actually haven't posted my macros or set up but maybe that's something I should do when I get some time. It's a weird set up but it works for me and let's me do some things I couldn't do with a conventional set up.

As for my internet, it was actually kinda subpar at the time of recording. The form animations still flash now and then, they just didn't in that particular clip.

7 hours ago, bustacap said:

 

 

I always liked WS more than PB since WS had less kb (only one unique KD  IO existed on live). Also eclipse... I'd play a new one to 50 again but I can't find the macros I liked on live and unlike other classes you really need macros/keybinds you like to make the class playable. 

 

Maybe you should give PB a try now that we have more ways to convert kB -> KD? A well built tri-form PB with a proc'd out human st chain is one of the HC era's best kept secrets IMO. 

 

7 hours ago, bustacap said:

 

 

The mez>eclipse>human mire>dwarf mire> nova >raise a pet> eat the souls of the dead;  just seems so complicated now a days I'd probably go human form only now. Especially when you consider the feats that Blasters can get to now. 

 

Yeah I get that and it's something i hear a lot of people say. To many, it feels like too much work when you can get comparable results or better with less work on a different AT and for the most part that's correct, at least offensively speaking.

 

As far as the blaster comparison goes, I'll give it to fire/ blasters for sheer damage but fire blast beats a lot of sets for ST and aoe, ice blast for ST and water for aoe. The rest of the blaster primaries are alright but those 3 are outliers imo.

Warshades have never had great ST damage. Too much of their ST performance is tied to their pets and they die to a stiff wind when solo. For aoe performance Warshades still crush it. You'll also never be able to cap all resists including psi with a blaster or refill your health and end every 10 seconds off dead mobs but with enough offensive power you may not need to. 

[Lusiphur Malache]

I have a 50 human peacebringer.  It was a lot of hard work until I realised I was soloing to much.  Soon as I kept him in a group everything got so much easier.  Keep at it, don't listen to the naysayers, and above all try to keep to clockwork and thorn missions as they don't spawn quantums when you do solo.

 

Was doing Tarikoss strikeforce yesterday with SG mates.  Things were difficult because we didn't have a tank to hold aggro as my warshade didn't have a taunt.  After another team wipe I trained up to level 20 and for no reason I can think of I clicked dwarf form, never having played it before and only being an average tank player,  everything changed we breezed through the second half of the strikeforce .  Going to be reading the thread for a bit, because i'm walking on new ground here.

[Ohsirus]

On 1/2/2021 at 11:07 AM, Doomrider said:

I actually haven't posted my macros or set up but maybe that's something I should do when I get some time. It's a weird set up but it works for me and let's me do some things I couldn't do with a conventional set up.

Those form shifts/mires  were impressive and I thought I was fast, I have them (forms) mapped to two of my mouse buttons, but that was another level. I'm going to have to play with some more macros. 

[DeamonQC]

As other said they are not trash but they are hard to play.

Also you will find them quite satisfying when charging into a mobs.

They are very weak against tough single target though and it's frustrating to fight those.

I have an easier time playing mine solo than in group because it's nearly impossible to hit Eclipse, D-mire and mire before someone kills everything.

[chi1701]

On 1/1/2021 at 2:33 AM, dtj714 said:

Well, let's see -

 

1. A ranged form with a better damage scale than a blaster and inherent fly. Yea, that sucks.

2. A melee form that can tank well up to end-game with inherent status protection and TP. Yea, that sucks.

3. The ability to routinely buff yourself to damage, hit, and resist caps; and refill your HP and End.  Yea, that sucks.

4. The ability to do all of these things in conjunction with one another.  Yea, that really sucks.

 

Yes, you need bodies (both alive and dead). So go get (make) some.  Always try to leave yourself something to eat...

 

I don't recommend leveling as human-only (tried it, hated it). But human-only at 50 can also be pretty bad-ass, IMHO.

1 - Keldians base damage is significantly lower than that of Blaster which requires them to have a larger damage scale. For a Keldian to match the base damage of a Blaster, they would need a damage buff of 60% which is acquired by use of their inherent.

 

2 - Dwarf form which also limits availability of powers or requires perma hasten to get llightform or eclipse on cooldown. 

 

3 - Anyone can reach hit cap and even with max damage buff still wont match blaster. Refilling endurance and hp requires mobs to be defeated and present on the floor.

 

4 - Thats a no, again, forms restrict available powers making it a difficult choice to drop dwarf when taking hits from an av to activate other buffs.

[Seed22]

50 minutes ago, chi1701 said:

1 - Keldians base damage is significantly lower than that of Blaster which requires them to have a larger damage scale. For a Keldian to match the base damage of a Blaster, they would need a damage buff of 60% which is acquired by use of their inherent.

 

2 - Dwarf form which also limits availability of powers or requires perma hasten to get llightform or eclipse on cooldown. 

 

3 - Anyone can reach hit cap and even with max damage buff still wont match blaster. Refilling endurance and hp requires mobs to be defeated and present on the floor.

 

4 - Thats a no, again, forms restrict available powers making it a difficult choice to drop dwarf when taking hits from an av to activate other buffs.

This 100%. Look, I have a WS, and while they deal immensely more damage than a PB AND get capped psi unlike PBs which can be nice for me personally(while in the forms thanks to eclipse carrying over! Neato!), it doesnt mean they even begin to touch blasters damage wise. Never, under any circumstance. Ever. All a blaster has to do is sneeze and they’ve outpaced everyone, but also, about capped res? It works GREAT for WS/PB, but a blaster using capped res...isnt always great.(my Fire/atomic does, but only because all I need is to survive the alpha and everything’s dead.) Most blasters prefer capped S/L/E/N def, which equates to eclipse in survival.

 

 While impressive, I would not ever say that my tricked out WS is better than my blasters(unless its a horribly built, and I mean HORRIBLE, blaster. So I guess my arch/tact, who has no enhs and was stripped for the other blasters 😂). 

Edited January 9, 2021 by Seed22