Is it time to buff Hami? How would you?

[Greycat]

1 minute ago, Lockpick said:

No.

 

At least for the current Hami in the Hive and the Abyss.  I wouldn't mind seeing another zone created with a buffed Hami, but wouldn't want to see the current Hami impacted.

Which seems to be a common refrain. 🙂

 

So something like a different "Praetorian Hami" raid for those that want a buff.

 

How about (as a side question) same difficulty, but some fresh/new/different mechanics?(Goes for @ejlertson and others who feel this same way? ) Or is there something about the way Hami's currently set up that you like specifically? (Seriously, nobody seems to want to answer that...)

[0th Power]

On 1/3/2021 at 2:22 AM, ivanhedgehog said:

you must not play the game. There are a number of mobs that give zero rewards.

They shouldnt spend time on it because it does the player base zero benefit. New content and new zones/ats/power sets give us new and exciting things to do. nerfing our rewards, not so much.

Ignoring the “insult” because your only intent is to incite me. 
 

For your comment that it gives no benefit, if something is updated where a new strategy is needed, isn’t that new content?

I would want new power sets and maybe a new AT(I’m not keen on any more zones, but that’s a different argument), but to say that the hamidon raid isn’t in need of a hard look (either changing or reducing rewards) I think is not arguing in good faith. 
 

What I think is you don’t want someone taking away your easy way to get pretend money in a free video game. but that’s just me. 

 

[0th Power]

Mobs with no rewards:

grey cons

summoned enemies

      summoned CW, BP, rikti out of portals, demons out of portals, sure there are a few more all that were removed because of afk farming

sprites in croatoa 

 

[0th Power]

On 1/2/2021 at 10:47 PM, Saikochoro said:

Neither. I would have an instanced hami raid through LFG or a contact that can allow for difficulty modifiers similar to task forces for the people that want to mess with the difficulty level. 
 

Players who want harder hami raids can then find like minded players to join their league and they can play how they want to play.  People who enjoy it the way it is can play the normal zone hami raids with no changes. Win win. 
 

A change should not be forced on the rest of the players that enjoy things the way they are just to make a different subset of players happy. Give the players that want the change an option for harder difficulty and then they can recruit like minded players. No need to change the zone hami. 

Do you think the rewards (merits, I know most of the hammios are little more than garbage) for the hamidon are what they should be, lower than they should be or higher than they should be?

[Lockpick]

4 hours ago, Greycat said:

Which seems to be a common refrain. 🙂

 

So something like a different "Praetorian Hami" raid for those that want a buff.

 

How about (as a side question) same difficulty, but some fresh/new/different mechanics?(Goes for @ejlertson and others who feel this same way? ) Or is there something about the way Hami's currently set up that you like specifically? (Seriously, nobody seems to want to answer that...)

 

I don't like seeing fixes or changes to things that I do not think are broken.  I believe it leads to more contention and division as some people are happy with the change and some are unhappy.  Better to just create something different yet similar and give people options. 

 

I like the current Hami raid as is.  I usually play it several times a week.  I like that we have gotten to the point where we know the encounter and can defeat it in a reasonable amount of time and the rewards are pretty good.  I just don't see the need to change the current Hami encounters, but wouldn't mind seeing a different version in a different zone / instance.

 

Maybe creating a Rularuu encounter in the shadow shard would be a good encounter.

[Latex]

Introduce Praetorian Hamidon as a brand new Raid Encounter- this won't upset anyone missing old Hamidon and will bring a new challenge to those that seek it;

 

Praetorian Hamidon

 

Phase One - 100% - 65%

Any deaths during the fight become Mind Controlled. Mind Controlled Players deal massive Psionic AOE Damage to the entire raid and are attackable by other players, they have 300% increased HP it should take ten DPS around 3 seconds to kill them.

Ground based fight in phase 1.

Utilize the technology we seen in the Shivan at the Tutorial. Damage zones that mess you up, 'don't stand here' telegraphs.
Have these boss telegraphs gib anyone that stands in them, pierces all defenses and resistances, certain death. These telegraphs need to be clearly marked and somewhat easily avoided unless you are not paying attention.

The first Tank AT that uses Taunt becomes the Main Tank.

Boss targets Main Tank, hits tanks for 25% HP every 2 seconds, flat damage, no RES or DEF helps, this means Healers, specifically multiple Empaths are extremely valuable.

This hit puts a stacking Debuff on the Main Tank, if MT takes 5 stacks consecutively he dies and becomes Mind Controlled. MC'd tanks are especially dangerous due to the +300% HP, this is by design to deter Brute stacking for DPS.

Off Tank will be designated by the Second Tank AT to use Taunt on the boss.

Boss has a massive HP Pool so 48 players can't just DPS burn through this.

 

Phase Two - 65% - 25%

Hamidon splits into two bosses, It's the exact same mechanics as Phase One, but will require an organized split of players including two more Tanks and dedicated Healers and DPS.

The catch here is that one of the Hamidon is now aerial, static, and the telegraphs will be a clockwise affair, you have to circle the Boss every two seconds to avoid dying to the telegraph.

First Hamidon that didn't split has an AOE mechanic that forces players out of Melee or die. Moments later the 24 person raid must 'hug' the boss to 'soak' and split a damage AOE this puts major pressure on Healers and DPS to keep themselves at max HP ready for the damage soak.

It's a true test of endurance as there is twice the chance of something going wrong.

To top it off both of these have to die at the same time.

 

Phase Three - 25% - 0%

Praetorian Hamidon manifests into something that looks straight out of the Outer Dark.

Aggro Reset and no aggro/threat, Tanks have done their Jobs, 25% is a burn phase, Hamidon targets players at random, the boss is static and uses ranged attacks.

Hamidon does a huge telegraphed AOE every 10 seconds with a 3 second wind up. Anyone inside the AOE dies.

Mind Control mechanic is upped for this phase, MC'd players have their HP increased by 1000%. (ALL of the DPS must target them and kill quick.)

It's a pure burn phase where mistakes are heavily punished and people without any defense in their builds are a massive hindrance to the raid group, everyone needs enough survivability to take one hit off Hamidon as it randomly targets Heroes and Villains.

 

Hamidon Defeat

Drops exclusive Costume Parts, this should make everyone want to learn the fight and partake. You get one Account-wide costume unlock per kill, everyone in the raid does but they must be T4 Incarnate to be eligible, It will take 7 kills to collect all of the costume pieces.

Badge for defeating Praetorian Hamidon.

Badge for being Mind Controlled.

Badge for having no Mind Controlled Players.

Badge for killing 15 Mind Controlled Players.

This series of Badges will play into the theme of Hamidon, players will have to trust each other to not be Mind Controlled, only very organized groups will manage the harder Badges.

 

A vision of Emperor Cole comes forth in a cinematic at the end, he thanks you, Praetoria is rebuilt from it's ruins but in the next chapter Hamidons spores still linger! This cinematic expands on Praetoria and offers up new challenges and the toughest enemies, Praetoria becomes a level 54 zone and takes a similar route to what Dark Astoria did, basically it's no longer a dead zone but a zone everyone has purpose to go to in the endgame.

 

 

 

I had fun writing this gibberish, I feel the key to any raid boss is for everyone to have a role. Healers are needed, Buffers and Debuffers are needed, Tanks are needed, DPS are needed, utilizing cooldowns for Phase Three is essential, this should be the hardest challenge in the game so... I wrote it that way!

 

 

Edited January 5, 2021 by Latex

[Wavicle]

This game is not based on a Trinity of dps, tanks, and healers. Many Support are not healers. No thank you.

 

 Anyway there’s already a Praetorian Hamidon, it’s in First Ward.

[Latex]

6 minutes ago, Wavicle said:

This game is not based on a Trinity of dps, tanks, and healers. Many Support are not healers. No thank you.

 

 Anyway there’s already a Praetorian Hamidon, it’s in First Ward.

It's not based on a Trinity but it's most certainly based on roles and the fantasies of said roles therein. The immoveable object tank, the selfless healer, etc.

In hindsight I'd add some sort of mechanic for Controllers and Dominators to be essential for, just like the current Hamidon.

 

And the Hamidon you refer to is The Seed of Hamidon, it isn't the actual big bad boss Hamidon imo.

Edited January 5, 2021 by Latex

[Wavicle]

Yes, but as I said Healer is not one of the roles. The Hamidon encounter is already correctly tuned to require tanks, melee, range and control. Support is very helpful, in part for heals, but more for to hit, damage, recharge, and endurance.

 

I don’t think the encounter needs to be changed. It is possible that Incarnate powers need to be reigned in, but that’s another issue.

 

I love the idea of new raids, but we don’t need another Hamidon raid. Let’s have something different.

[Monos King]

On 1/2/2021 at 7:18 AM, Greycat said:

Plus there's no *lore* reason to do much to them. They may warrant a look at tweaks, but they're still just big mortal fights. Even Rommy is just newly-Nicticized mortal, at best on par with Arakhn and Requiem without the experience (though, arguably the Nictus now powering him has that, but it's driving a new body and nobody told it how floppy the shifter was) so... yeah, versus "they are gods" (even without Incarnates,) he's goin' down.

Actually, if we're talking in lore Romulus should honestly be a way bigger threat than he is in the ITF - seeing as in one of the signature stories it's expressed that both Imperious and Rommy bathed in the power of the gods...so he's actually a Nictus empowered incarnate. This guy could've eventually been fueled by two different planets wells. That ideas further supported by the fact that what killed him in the past was the same incarnate power stripping ritual that axed Statesman too. I could get behind a buff to him just based on that. Maybe in later content his sword swings actually double in damage when transformed, instead of just dividing into equal parts lethal and negative energy damage.

Edited January 5, 2021 by Monos King

[Keen]

IMO, Hami is fine as it is. Raids now look easy because these days we're very organized + Incarnates. But take Incarnates and organization out of the picture and it becomes very challenging.

 

I do think Incarnates are part of the "issue" (for those who think it's an issue... I don't) but that's not directly related to Hami raid mechanics because Incarnates just make everything easier.

 

Personally I'd not change a thing. In fact, I'd change one thing, but it would actually make the raids easier: green mito beams are the only debuff among all mitos that deals something unresistable (-regen). I'd make that resistable so 1) builds with regen debuff resistance are more valued and 2) it is inline with the other debuffs (slows, recovery, end drain, etc) being resistable.

[Boudicia.Dark]

On 1/2/2021 at 4:02 PM, LiquidBandage said:

And just think what it would do to Villain zones.

 

Well, I *think* Hami would be sitting there all alone with nothing to do all the live long day if it spawned redside.

[Nemu]

Buff hami so that it spawns on the tools that think everything is a speed run and do so without asking the rest of the team.

 

Run ahead will you, hami spawns 36 mitos on you and they follow you and only you for 12 hours, even after you rez.

[Greycat]

12 minutes ago, Keen said:

IMO, Hami is fine as it is. Raids now look easy because these days we're very organized + Incarnates. But take Incarnates and organization out of the picture and it becomes very challenging.

 

I do think Incarnates are part of the "issue" (for those who think it's an issue... I don't) but that's not directly related to Hami raid mechanics because Incarnates just make everything easier.

 

As I'm reading this, I'm wondering if it's actually true. It does make the final jellybean easier to take down with Judgement, Lore, etc. Absolutely. But what about the rest of the raid?

 

I don't think the +1 level shift has *that* big of an impact, though of course you're also getting whatever boost you selected from Alpha. How big *that* is is debatable.

Judgement - doesn't tend to get used until the end, from what I've seen.

Incandescence - *maybe* has an impact depending on what's being used?

Lore - Impact at the end, not really during the rest of the raid itself.

Destiny - Impact at the beginning before everyone launches. Less of one during the mitos, since everyone's spread out, for any refreshes.

Hybrid - Honestly couldn't say.

 

Are they making the whole raid easier, or just the beginning and end?  At this point I *am* curious if we could run two raids back to back, one with and one without Incarnate abilities, just to compare. Hami itself would be slower, definitely... maybe the monster hunt (lord knows there's Judgement a'plenty there,) but how much would it affect the middle?

 

As for organization... "well, duh." 🙂  It's why we love our raid leaders - or should. Regardless of the raid. Buy your raid leader their beverage of choice.

[Keen]

3 hours ago, Greycat said:

As I'm reading this, I'm wondering if it's actually true. It does make the final jellybean easier to take down with Judgement, Lore, etc. Absolutely. But what about the rest of the raid?

 

I don't think the +1 level shift has *that* big of an impact, though of course you're also getting whatever boost you selected from Alpha. How big *that* is is debatable.

Judgement - doesn't tend to get used until the end, from what I've seen.

Incandescence - *maybe* has an impact depending on what's being used?

Lore - Impact at the end, not really during the rest of the raid itself.

Destiny - Impact at the beginning before everyone launches. Less of one during the mitos, since everyone's spread out, for any refreshes.

Hybrid - Honestly couldn't say.

 

Are they making the whole raid easier, or just the beginning and end?  At this point I *am* curious if we could run two raids back to back, one with and one without Incarnate abilities, just to compare. Hami itself would be slower, definitely... maybe the monster hunt (lord knows there's Judgement a'plenty there,) but how much would it affect the middle?

 

As for organization... "well, duh." 🙂  It's why we love our raid leaders - or should. Regardless of the raid. Buy your raid leader their beverage of choice.

 

I think having a good launch (beginning) and being able to skip blooms (end) make the middle of the raid faster/better. And Incarnates make a lot of difference:

 

Clarion Destiny - IMO the most powerful buff. Take it out, and raiders will be stunned more frequently, have toggles suppressed/dropped, be knocked back/flipped midair, and be fear-locked. Raiders would need other sources of mez protection to overcome this, and there aren't many team-oriented mez protection powers out there.

 

Ageless Destiny - the one prevents raiders to have their endurance drained by blue mito attacks. The recharge boost from Core and debuff resistances from Radial counteract blue mito recharge debuffs. Take it out, and you'll see most raiders running out of endurance without other recovery buffs and losing their toggles, which can have a fatal cascade effect. Everything will also recharge much slower.

 

Melee Hybrid - this one allows melee and taunters to be less affected by yellow stuns and knockback. Each yellow blast is a large AoE that causes causes 6 stun and 15 knockback.  The same effects are dealt by yellow mito damage auras. Two close hits of any of those are enough to overcome scrappers/stalkers/sentinel primary stun protection, causing some toggle drops/suppression, flipping raiders midair, and overall slowing down mito clearing.

 

Support Hybrid - improves the damage of the whole league and contributes to a faster killing phase. IMO the most powerful hybrid in a league setting: even if the damage bonus is small (6/12%), it's impacting 50 players and their pets. This might be balanced by the fact that you can only stack 5x of them.

 

Assault Hybrid - used for the final push, contributes to finishing Hami up faster.

 

Control Hybrid - allows control characters to drop green defenses faster.

 

Incandescence Destiny - not too important but easily overlooked, it provides a +HealingReceived buff that counteracts the green debuff to the same stat, allowing raiders to be healed by external sources even when being debuffed by greens. It also contributes to faster monster clearing with the league teleport between monster walls.

 

Barrier Destiny - the least important IMO, but it provides toxic resists which can help squishies survive green beam death while having an EoE on. It can also resurrect raiders.

 

Rebirth Destiny - currently bugged but still relevant. Once it's fixed, it'll probably become a top buff in Hami raids.

Lores - they just allow the raid to end faster, which is part of what makes Hami raids so appealing. We could very well clear most/all blooms (which was the way on Live before Incarnates) but then a slow raid would probably be less interesting for everyone.

 

Judgement - largely irrelevant while attacking Hami and mitos, but useful during bud clearing and monster hunting.

 

That all said, I'd say most Incarnate powers are making the whole raid easier by making the launch (beginning) and kill (end) much better. I'd also factor monster hunting as part of the raid, and Incarnates make that faster/easier without a doubt.

 

Edited January 5, 2021 by Keen

[TheZag]

I would be ok with a 'hardmode' hamidon with increased rewards that is on a rotation with the normal encounter.  Every 3rd or maybe every 5 days to prevent it from being the same days each week.  Players that dont want hardmode can take a night off from raiding.

[Saikochoro]

20 hours ago, 0th Power said:

Do you think the rewards (merits, I know most of the hammios are little more than garbage) for the hamidon are what they should be, lower than they should be or higher than they should be?

I honestly think merit rewards for Hami are where they should be. It is in line with other high yield activities. 
 

Hami * 5 runs. 30 mins for 1st run (league set up), 15 for each subsequent run (this has been my experience - might be faster). 
Total time  - 90 minutes

Total merits - 240

Merits/min = 2.7

 

Smoke and Mirrors TF:

Time per run - 6 minutes

merits per run - 12

merits/min = 2

 

Apex/Tin Mage

Time - 35 mins

Merits - 80

merits/min = 2.3

 

Each of these can be done faster, but this is just my experience. Heather Townsend arc can be pretty good as well. 
 

Hami is not out of line with the other two. I’m sure there are other activities that I missed with high yield.  If hami was rewarding an obscene amount of merits per minute I might be more on board with changes, but I really don’t think it is all that much more than some other activities.  If anything, I would want lower yield activities to have their rewards increased. 
 

I would fully support a separate instanced hami that has various difficulty options though.

Edited January 5, 2021 by Saikochoro

[Heraclea]

13 hours ago, Greycat said:

 

As I'm reading this, I'm wondering if it's actually true. It does make the final jellybean easier to take down with Judgement, Lore, etc. Absolutely. But what about the rest of the raid?

 

I don't think the +1 level shift has *that* big of an impact, though of course you're also getting whatever boost you selected from Alpha. How big *that* is is debatable.

Judgement - doesn't tend to get used until the end, from what I've seen.

Incandescence - *maybe* has an impact depending on what's being used?

Lore - Impact at the end, not really during the rest of the raid itself.

Destiny - Impact at the beginning before everyone launches. Less of one during the mitos, since everyone's spread out, for any refreshes.

Hybrid - Honestly couldn't say.

 

Are they making the whole raid easier, or just the beginning and end?  At this point I *am* curious if we could run two raids back to back, one with and one without Incarnate abilities, just to compare. Hami itself would be slower, definitely... maybe the monster hunt (lord knows there's Judgement a'plenty there,) but how much would it affect the middle?

 

As for organization... "well, duh." 🙂  It's why we love our raid leaders - or should. Regardless of the raid. Buy your raid leader their beverage of choice.

I think you're right about this.  I use judgment only at the beginning, for the monster hunt, and the after-party, for chasing down buds.   Even if I didn't save it for the buds and used it at the burn, it's just one long and slow attack with a long recharge.    I do use assault hybrid for the burn, of course,  But TBH and IME the biggest advantage incarnates bring to the raid is the ability to use threads to supply themselves with Super damage inspirations, which seem to outclass the effect that Assault has.  And those inspirations are available to any level character.

 

What you're up against is the collective knowledge and experience of the player base.  I do not pretend to have mad gaming skills.  What I do have is a character that I chose to mold towards the needs of a Hami raid.  The ice/plants blaster that is my chief Hami raider brings several things to the table: three spammable ranged ST holds, a solid single target attack chain, and a useful Destiny click (Clarion).  As such the character excels at getting rid of both blue and green mitos, and does blaster-scale if not top level damage against the big blob.  I did not roll this character with the purpose of making an ideal Hamidon raider, either.  In fact, the character was rolled to claim a jokey name.  As has happened before, as I played the character the possibilities of the powers available became clearer and a plan began to take form. 

 

The existing Hamidon raid is not too easy.  It is, however, familiar.  We know what it needs.  (If I were really into masterminds, I'd think it needs to change, too.)  If you choose to change the mechanics or create a new different Hamidon raid, the players will eventually figure that out too.    I don't raid Hami to develop my raiding character any more.  Rather, the raider contributes a steady stream of inf tranches and Hero and Transcendent merits that sit in email until I roll another alt.  Your new and harder Hami raid will also inspire dedicated builds.  If you change the existing mechanics and obsolete the current raider characters, people will be upset.  If you add a different Hami raid to the game with harder mechanics and bigger rewards, the players will figure it out and farm it the same way we do the current raid.  That will in turn lead to still more power creep.  The only thing this will do is change the Hami FOTM character types.  And in the end, those who want Hami raiding to be an exclusive l33t thing will be back to square one.  Don't forget that the critters you're trying to build fences to keep out are semi-intelligent monkeys with posable thumbs. 

Edited January 6, 2021 by Heraclea

[Greycat]

1 hour ago, Heraclea said:

The existing Hamidon raid is not too easy.  It is, however, familiar.  We know what it needs.  (If I were really into masterminds, I'd think it needs to change, too.)  If you choose to change the mechanics or create a new different Hamidon raid, the players will eventually figure that out too.    I don't raid Hami to develop my raiding character any more.  Rather, the raider contributes a steady stream of inf tranches and Hero and Transcendent merits that sit in email until I roll another alt.  Your new and harder Hami raid will also inspire dedicated builds.  If you change the existing mechanics and obsolete the current raider characters, people will be upset.  If you add a different Hami raid to the game with harder mechanics and bigger rewards, the players will figure it out and farm it the same way we do the current raid.  That will in turn lead to still more power creep.  The only thing this will do is change the Hami FOTM character types.  And in the end, those who want Hami raiding to be an exclusive l33t thing will be back to square one.  Don't forget that the critters you're trying to build fences to keep out are semi-intelligent monkeys with posable thumbs. 

Thank you.

 

I want to focus a bit on this last paragraph, because there are a few things I want to address. (Not just in reply to you, but in general.)

 

1. " If you choose to change the mechanics or create a new different Hamidon raid, the players will eventually figure that out too. "

 

This, to me, is not a *bad* thing at all. Details and mechanics of the raid have been changed once, after all. I would not want any hypothetical change to be a "you must be this tall to ride." (Or, if this were really a gear MMO, "you must have the latest, absolute most top end gear to even consider this." Or in our case, be purpled/ATOd/IO'd and min/maxed out.) Change is not a bad thing in and of itself, especially when we have content that's stayed stagnant for years (long before sunset, plus time here.)

 

2. FOTM/obsoleting characters

 

... is this a thing? Because I just wander in with my characters between 45-50 and join the mob, basically. I don't really *hear* of "Hami builds." (*maybe* the taunting tank?) I could well be unaware of it, but - other than "8 man hami" or something - I don't know of anything in the raid that requires any sort of "build." And to me, that's great, too. I *like* accessible.

 

3. "  And in the end, those who want Hami raiding to be an exclusive l33t thing will be back to square one."

 

I don't think I, or anyone else, has mentioned making it exclusive. Yes, the title mentions buffing Hami - which was due specifically to the question asked during the raid I mentioned. I've also mentioned changing (again, "shaking it up," which can be *different* without being harder,) and threw out some example ideas. Maybe I should have altered the title to say "buffed or changed," but I thought the opening post covered that. And, of course, we've had discussions on incarnates (which obviously are a thing just because of the level range of Hami - they're in play regardless,) which is a long, ongoing discussion (or, well, argument) since live with how they affect content. And there are assumptions about me wanting to nerf them (granted, one of my examples for shaking things up, partly tied to lore, affects incarnates, but it wasn't meant to be a focus,) - see the couple "so just unequip them" replies, which ... were not the focus at all of the thread. (And suggestions I had some nefarious purpose or hidden agenda. I'm pretty blunt. If I want to say something should be done, I'll say it. If I say someone made a comment and I think it could be an interesting discussion - that's exactly what I mean.)

 

~~~~~~~~

 

So after sitting with this thought, and this thread, for several days - sparked, as I mentioned, by another person in the league asking if Hami needs a buff, here's where I sit. Not so much with "does something need to be done, and what," but a view on the raid itself.

 

As I mentioned, I can describe what I do repeatedly in a raid pretty simply. Swarm monsters with the league for some inspirations - or just use the ones I have in storage. Hit F to put a designated targeter on follow. Pop an EOE. Hit a few keys repeatedly - I don't even really *need* to pay attention to much 'til Hami's down. Nuke some buds, collect reward, rinse, repeat.

 

And when I think about that, the lore side does come to mind. Because this is supposed to be, potentially, a planetary threat. This is the same being who, in Praetoria, basically has taken over the planet and achieved, or come close to achieving, the goal of wiping out or converting humanity. And we go through and trim it repeatedly like it's a hedge or a rosebush.

 

The first Incarnate trials - which, after all, are designed with the fact that people may not have any Incarnate abilities at *all,* so honestly they're just "level 50 raids" - are, obviously, newer. And they have more thought put into what you have to do, and more unique mechanics (which you have the option to skip, and can be rewarded for doing so.) These are "baby's first incarnate trials," BAF and Lambda. Even Keyes isn't that much *harder* - you can still run on that without a shift. But they've got things to pay attention to, sub-goals to try to achieve and interesting mechanics. You can't really do them in your sleep, even if you're familiar with them... meanwhile, yes, I've done Hami half asleep.

 

Hamidon's supposed to be a bit of a capstone raid, and lorewise is supposed to be potentially an existential threat to humanity. Doesn't *it* deserve some interesting mechanics - not neccessarily "harder," not necessarily "nerf incarnates or IOs," but *something* different, more engaging and more interesting than "F, F1 for EOE, 123412341234123412341234, F1 for EOE, 123412341234 oh we're down to killing hami itself already?"

 

Obviously some people don't think so and are fine with it as it is now. Perfectly valid (though nobody's given detail on what, specifically, they like about it - other than Herculea, here, unless I'm reading the response wrong likes being able to build up merits for new alts 🙂  .) I can only assume it's comfortable familiarity otherwise, which again - perfectly valid. Same reason I'll re-read a book for the hundredth time... or, hey, log into COH yet again, right?

 

Others see this as another example of "Incarnates trivialize content," which... well, yes, they're a leap in power, but other than looking at what they do in a raid - and not everyone has incarnates, or are at the same level of them, after all - it's kind of a tangent to it, but the arguments about incarnates an d content have gone on since live, and will continue going on, and I don't think anyone will come up with one "solution" that will make everyone happy. That said, going back to ... two paragraphs ago 🙂  wouldn't it still be possible to make *interesting* mechanics that, while Incarnates - even at all T4, full strength - are obviously going to have an easier time with, would still be interesting to play through? I think people got distracted from that ... kind of just by the mention of Incarnates themselves.

 

I don't have answers. I wasn't really shooting to provide any, or look for anything besides a discussion of this comment and see where peoples' thoughts went. I still think Hami could use some of the lessons learned in newer raids - just like a lot of old content has people requesting updates, whether it's "fewer kill alls" or "less zone to zone travel" or just freshening up, and which has been done in some.

 

Maybe I should have made the title "Should Hami be modernized" - it might have avoided some assumptions and arguments.

[Shred Monkey]

Quick and simple...  Cap the zone at 30. 

[golstat2003]

On 1/4/2021 at 7:26 PM, 0th Power said:

Do you think the rewards (merits, I know most of the hammios are little more than garbage) for the hamidon are what they should be, lower than they should be or higher than they should be?

They are what they should be based on the effort of organizing that many folks to do that content. Forming, leading and running a hamidon raid is NOT a simple matter, no matter how easy the raid leaders (and raid participants) make it seem.

[golstat2003]

On 1/5/2021 at 4:09 AM, Monos King said:

Actually, if we're talking in lore Romulus should honestly be a way bigger threat than he is in the ITF - seeing as in one of the signature stories it's expressed that both Imperious and Rommy bathed in the power of the gods...so he's actually a Nictus empowered incarnate. This guy could've eventually been fueled by two different planets wells. That ideas further supported by the fact that what killed him in the past was the same incarnate power stripping ritual that axed Statesman too. I could get behind a buff to him just based on that. Maybe in later content his sword swings actually double in damage when transformed, instead of just dividing into equal parts lethal and negative energy damage.

I could get behind a new encounter with a powered up version of him or the option to make him more difficult based on challenge settings. Leave the BASE ITF as is please.

[golstat2003]

20 hours ago, TheZag said:

I would be ok with a 'hardmode' hamidon with increased rewards that is on a rotation with the normal encounter.  Every 3rd or maybe every 5 days to prevent it from being the same days each week.  Players that dont want hardmode can take a night off from raiding.

Eh, just make it another encounter that anyone can launch whenever they want and leave the base zone alone. Everyone wins that way.

[golstat2003]

1 hour ago, Shred Monkey said:

Quick and simple...  Cap the zone at 30. 

No thanks. Make another encounter/zone with that cap. Or move it into LFG where those who want that can do it with less for the challenge.

[Ukase]

To me, it's rather simple. 

The choices are:
1. Leave it as is. 
2. Buff Hami - but how? Perhaps more KB against those trying to kill mitos and those trying to buff taunters. More end drain from all mitos. Enough where ageless would be required. 
3. Debuff players - remove the use of Incarnate powers other than Alpha. The level shifts from Lore and Destiny are already gone - the powers should go, too. 
4. Leave as is, but reduce the zone cap to 24. (the other folks can form a second instance in Hive 2 if need be)  

For me, Option 4 is the best option, because it would encourage those who might not lead to do so, and it limits the steamrolling of hami, and would require more focus. And, it leaves incarnate powers alone. 

A stinkier option is to reduce the reward, but that would have the wrong impact of reduced interest.