"The Game is not Balanced around IO's"..... should it be?

[Solarverse]

You know me, one of the main contributing factors for me that I don't much play anymore is because the game has just become a brain dead far too easy of a game. I mean, we have people blowing through Task Forces in record times, the leveling up experience is far too easy, the end game content is far too easy. There are a *few* things that are difficult, but for the most part, even as a Blaster, mobs die before your attacks even hit. So I am all for ANYTHING that gives a challenge back to this game. Until then, I am going to be a far in and between player.

[Troo]

14 hours ago, Galaxy Brain said:

 

Yes and no, technically any one of us can hop into Orodev and make their own version of CoH. The seperator between armchair _____ and the real deal is effort / experience!

 

 

Is Orodev related to Homecoming or something else?

[Apparition]

13 minutes ago, Troo said:

Is Orodev related to Homecoming or something else?

Something else.  OuroDev is a group leading open source development of CoH.

[Galaxy Brain]

36 minutes ago, Troo said:

Is Orodev related to Homecoming or something else?

 

As Apparition said, it is something else but tangentially related to HC in that you can put together a private server much like how @oedipus_tex has. 

 

You can also gain experience with things like Unity and making a game to release in the wild, or get into the modding scene like I have with remaking Borderlands 2 into Borderlands 2.5 with thousands and thousands of downloads. 😄

 

 

[Troo]

I have a private server with the Score code. Just keeping an eye out for getting the updated backend HC was able to do.

[Galaxy Brain]

Results time!

 

Part 1 : Isolated IO testing

 

So for this phase, I ran the following build across a handful of missions in my Mission Simulator map (3x runs at 0/3 difficulty) to gauge general performance on a "Generic Slotting" level:

 

 

 

All generic IO's was just easier to "Freebie" and is essentially the same as SO slotting if not a *scootch* better. 

 

Parry, Resurgence, and Focused Accuracy were NOT USED as they would skew results a bit much for our liking. Broadsword was chosen due to it's very middling performance across the melee sets (for Scrappers), and likewise Willpower is a great middle ground for all defensive stats + no click powers to manage to focus on just the primary powers we will be proccing.

 

 

During the missions, I tracked the following metrics to compile into average scores at the end:

 

Time = Time to complete the mission from 1st enemy to last

Dealt = Damage dealt in total

Received = Damage received in total

Defeated = Avg number of enemies defeated. This inevitably varied a bit, but it was always around 60ish for every test

Activated = Number of power activations

 

Dam/Enemy = Damage Dealt / Per Enemy

Rec/Enemy = Damage Received / Per Enemy

Act/Enemy = Powers Activated / Per Enemy

Time/Enemy = Time spent / Per Enemy

 

Dam Value = The "Damage Value" to equate how much damage you received vs your max HP. A Dam Value of 3 for example means you took 3x your Max HP worth of damage through the mission.

 

 

Lets see our baseline:

 

 

The 6:01 avg time lines right up with my prior SO runtimes on Broadsword/WP on 0/3 for Scrapper testing, and everything else lines up to about what I'd expect.

 

Next, lets look at the Isolated IO's:

 

 

 

 

Starting with Force Feedback in both Head Splitter and Disembowel, it was able to proc at least 2 times per encounter if not more but honestly it made little impact overall compared to the baseline. I feel this one in particular needs special setups and synergies to really *shine*. In these powers, FF replaced the Recharge IO.

 

 

 

1 Achilles Heel in each power allowed for a good chunk more damage dealt overall, though curiously a similar amount of activations and time spent per enemy. This is likely due to Achilles not being an immediate effect, and dealing 1000 damage vs a target at 1/100 HP still counts as 1000 damage, where on the Generic runs that second swing would have done 500 damage. Far less, but the result is still the same with needing 2 swings.

 

 

In order to have a direct comparison, I franken-slotted powers to accommodate Achille's heel while retaining very similar stats to the generic spread of IO enhancement bonuses. 

 

 

 

 

Using Pounding Slugfest's stun + Avalanche/Overwhelming Force Knockdowns in the AoE's (Headsplitter was generic as it consistently knocks down) I wanted to test the extra mitigation from these utility IO's. The Knockdown definitely bought time in terms of clear speed, but the actual damage delivered and even received was similar to being generic. As with all procs that are not Force Feedback, I emulated the Generic slotting through Franken-Slotting.

 

 

 

Slotting all the unique Def/Res IO's (Max HP, scaling res, 3% def, etc, etc), I was able to take far less damage and result in a much lower Dam Value in the end. It should be noted again, this was back to all generic slotting except fitting in these uniques onto the WP/Pool Power side of things

 

 

 

Moving onto Damage Procs... this is where we start seeing big improvements across the board. The damage per enemy increased a bit, but the big changes were the Time, Activations, and Damage taken. Activations compared to Achilles makes more sense vs most of the mobs as two swings with an extra 72 damage thrown in per hit can 2-shot, while Achilles may still need 3 swings to do the job depending on the power. Being able to kill faster / with less swings also slashed the damage taken way down more than I would have expected, and overall would have also meant less endurance consumed / less need for crowd control / etc.

 

 

 

If 1 Damage proc is good, how about 2? Squeezing in 2 procs + franken-slotting the powers as best I could to emulate the same values as the generic enhancement, we get the above with the fastest and safest average of them all. It even had the highest amount of enemies on average but still the least amount of power activations to mow through them all. Pretty much take everything I said about 1 damage proc and level shift it +1.

 

 

 

 

Note: these powers had ~38-42% recharge slotting each run which would have actually hampered PPM a good bit outside the Force Feedback runs which I let slide as only 2 powers could slot it.

 

 

 

 

Comparing everything to the Generic Baseline, we see the improvements above. Of note, Achilles did give the biggest boost to Dam/Enemy while oddly 2 Procs roughly matched the baseline, but exceeded everywhere else. 

 

 

 

Regen / Heal IO's

So, these are kind of a drop in the pan for /WP, but I did grab data on them as well based on the time spent in the Baseline mission as we can equate the time spent to a HPS value when looking at the Regen'd HP and heal/PPM of the procs:

 

 

This is split into two columns: Baseline on WP and +Unbreakable Guard's Max HP on top. The Regen assumes 6 targets within RttC range + Regen + Healing to become a final HPS value. I rounded down the 6:01 avg down to 6:00 for sanity purposes. Over the course of 6 minutes, the stacked Regen uniques would provide an extra 486-515 HP for the /WP character, which based on the avg damage taken per enemy (133, rounded), is a solid amount of extra hits! (About 4 a piece with some wiggle room)

 

 

 

Panacea and Power Transfer, at max output should proc 18 times each, healing you for the numbers seen in green next to them. Preventative Medicine likewise would patch you up for that green value if it went off every 90s throughout the mission. In total, if they went off consistently they would provide a whopping 3839 HP recovered/patched! Compared to the baseline, that is an extra ~29 attacks tanked. Combined with the Regen IO's, a full slew of those would in theory provide a great deal of extra mitigation and sustain.

 

 

 

 

Up next of course would be combining as much of these as possible in the best spots possible and seeing what the combined results are. After that, incorporating moderate set bonuses where able and mixing and matching the procs vs bonuses.

 

 

 

Edited March 31, 2021 by Galaxy Brain

[Glacier Peak]

Tremendous testing! I appreciate you posting your methodology and results. This stuff is 👍

[Snarky]

so this discussion continues to grow and change and not die...  maybe if we attack it with enough i/o builds we can kill it and get some merits?

[KauaiJim]

First I agree that is some impressive testing and thank you!

 

However -

 

For some reason when this thread popped back up the song "Beat It" keeps playing in my head (along with a visual of a horse skeleton)...  

 

No offense meant to those of you who are passionate about this - I just do not quite understand spending so much time and effort on it as though it will make something happen under the current circumstances.  (free, unpaid dev and support staff, unsanctioned, server code readily available for anyone, multiple community servers running giving players options, etc.)

 

That isn't to say the data and discussion isn't good it's just not really serving any real purpose in my mind at this point other than giving a wrong impression to any new players who come along.  The game is VERY enjoyable and playable right now as is.  I understand everyone's personal wish lists, I have my own, I just think coming to the HC forum and rehashing the same old thing starts to feel tired even if all we're doing is providing numbers (for what the HC devs likely actually already know).  Maybe they're already looking at this.  Has anyone asked?

 

Maybe I'm just grumpy.  I apologize.  Just seems like the whole darn world is in constant gripe and whine mode.  If you can find what makes you happy, great!  If not, well, "first-world problems"...  sigh 

 

Go play the game while you can (is my advice)...

 

I'm going to go get my flame proof suit on now...

Edited March 31, 2021 by KauaiJim
And yes, before someone says it, I could just ignore the threads that won't die so part of this is on me.

[Luminara]

18 minutes ago, KauaiJim said:

No offense meant to those of you who are passionate about this - I just do not quite understand spending so much time and effort on it as though it will make something happen under the current circumstances.  (free, unpaid dev and support staff, unsanctioned, server code readily available for anyone, multiple community servers running giving players options, etc.)

 

It's not about what might happen.  It's not about being right, or proving someone else wrong.  It's not about initiating change.

 

It's about what is happening.  It's about understanding, so we can approach discussions from an informed perspective.  It's about bettering ourselves by asking questions and looking for answers.

 

If the only thing that comes out of this thread is a little more knowledge, it's worth continuing indefinitely.

 

[KauaiJim]

Oh, now it all makes complete sense.  Thanks!  😄

 

Yeah, honestly, I do get that.  It just seems like it has already been DISCUSSED TO DEATH.  But ok.  Carry on.  

 

Edited March 31, 2021 by KauaiJim
Sometimes I forget folks enjoy playing the forum game as much as the actual game.

[Galaxy Brain]

1 minute ago, KauaiJim said:

Oh, now it all makes complete sense.  Thanks!  😄

 

Yeah, honestly, I do get that.  It just seems like it has already been DISCUSSED TO DEATH.  But ok.  Carry on.  

 

 

Haha, yeah it has come up quite a lot! The difference though to me is that no other thread has truly been *focused* on it as a topic from so many angles + had data and work put in to explain trends or back up certain claims. For that alone, as @Luminara said the thread has a ton of Merit like with how I was able to isolate certain powerful IOs and provide data on their impact vs the "baseline".

[KauaiJim]

I see your point.  This thread does have some very good info and lots of great points.  Like I said, I'm just literally surrounded all day long by people complaining about EVERYTHING (in real life) over and over.  I think it's carrying over to when I come here to 'escape' from the real world.  Somewhere in my closet I have a t-shirt that says "Grumpy Old Man Under Construction".  I think I need to go find it and start wearing it.

 

Now, all you young wippersnappers git offa my lawn!!  (shakes scrawny fist)  lol

[Brutal Justice]

On 3/14/2021 at 11:00 PM, Solarverse said:

You know me, one of the main contributing factors for me that I don't much play anymore is because the game has just become a brain dead far too easy of a game. I mean, we have people blowing through Task Forces in record times, the leveling up experience is far too easy, the end game content is far too easy. There are a *few* things that are difficult, but for the most part, even as a Blaster, mobs die before your attacks even hit. So I am all for ANYTHING that gives a challenge back to this game. Until then, I am going to be a far in and between player.

This is exactly what will prevent Homecoming from lasting as long as the original.  

 

Just stopping in to to see if we have changed the 45% softcap into a 40% hard cap yet?

[Neiska]

I still think the game more or less already offers a variety of difficulty for different activities. I mean what's the difference between -

 

A) - +4 difficulty has been rebalanced entirely around IOs.

B) - +3 and +4 difficulty has been removed, +2 is now the max difficulty.

 

I think people may be loosing sight of the forest for all the trees here. I mean, not every AT/Power combination/build will be able to play on the hardest difficulty, and nor do I think they were meant to. Personally I tend to consider 2/8 as "the end" for the majority of builds out there, and going beyond that is a bonus/hardmode/newgame+ kind of feature. Now, I know 2/8 is laughable by most min/maxers, myself included. I also enjoy challenging myself with a billion inf build and redlining the engine and seeing what its capable of. But that doesn't mean that I think the hardest difficulty can/should be used as the goalpost/measuring stick to balance things around either. And I still believe that trying to balance all ATs/Powers/IOs/Time invested/Inf invested/Incarnates around all kinds of difficulties and activities, is something of a logistical impossibility. That doesn't mean we shouldn't attempt to balance things by any means, only that finding a tried and true balance among all character possibilities, difficulties, activities is a fools errand.

 

Also I would like to remind people that game balance is very much an ongoing continuing thing. I mean powers are still being changed today. I don't think it will ever be finished or completed, there will always be updates/changes/tweaks and so on, so long as there are staff members willing to work on them.

 

Just my thoughts about it.

 

[Apparition]

2 hours ago, Brutal Justice said:

This is exactly what will prevent Homecoming from lasting as long as the original.  

 

Just stopping in to to see if we have changed the 45% softcap into a 40% hard cap yet?

 

Considering that that will absolutely never happen, no.

[KauaiJim]

13 hours ago, Brutal Justice said:

This is exactly what will prevent Homecoming from lasting as long as the original.  

 

Just stopping in to to see if we have changed the 45% softcap into a 40% hard cap yet?

 

Kind of like saying I wont ride that horse because it runs faster and that's going to make it die more quickly?  Strange prediction IMO.

 

I understand your point and what you are getting at (you don't agree with the direction the HC team has taken) but HC is far from dead or dying (at least right now) and predicting a doomed future for mmo's has been going on for decades now with what I will call a 'low' accuracy rate.  

 

Yes HC is CoH in easier than ever before mode - if you want to play it that way.  There's still a boat load to do including challenging content (subjective and my opinion of course).  It feels a bit to me like people don't want to come to this amusement park because it's free, has shorter lines, and there are more rides and things to do than ever before.  But for those who really miss standing in lines there are options.  It just seems strange to me.  There are many grindy high difficulty ultra competitive mmo's and games out there "Look at me I'm awesome - LOOK AT ME AND MY GEAR cause you ain't got the skillz to get it yourself!  Bow to me you lowly playerz!".  I get it, this game is no longer conducive for the leetz crowd to show off and brag or demonstrate their superior gaming skill and knowledge.  But there are plenty of places other than HC where you can get that satisfaction.  Why do you NEED it here?  That part I DON'T GET.

 

LOL - This is "the thread that keeps on giving!".  Are you guys really seeing folks run away from HC in droves because the game is easier now?  Honestly, I get the argument.  I'm just not seeing a lot of people quitting.  What I do see is what always seems to happen - some folks try it and move on, others take a break and come back later and some like me just enjoy THE FREE GAME THAT ROSE FROM THE DEAD!  lol  (and some folks who "quit" because of dissatisfaction linger in the forums hoping to bend the game to their will - nothing wrong with that, it's just not very productive IMO)

 

Sorry - Had to get that off my chest.  😋

 

Also, I don't know if you are aware of this but HC (and all CoH servers for that matter) have a slightly more concerning 'dark cloud' hanging over them.  Worrying about lack of player interest just seems a bit out of place to me in this situation.  There doesn't seem to be a lack of interest in the forum (currently) either and I see new folks all the time still.  Am I wrong? 

 

Your suggestion for the defense caps is hilarious so kudos for that!  I honestly do hope you can find a server that plays more the way you prefer (or perhaps you can find SOME kind of enjoyment on HC...)

 

Lets just remove IO's since they are obviously the work of the Devil and WAAAY too many folks can get them now and even become powerful, you know, like a super hero.  Crazy, I know!  Would that make the game hard enough?

 

Crud, where's my Kevlar vest and helmet?  

 

Edited to add:  And no, I am not for watering the game down excessively, but this is what it is.  And IMO HC has done great overall.  I remember this game before the IO's and IMO the IO's have made the game MUCH MUCH better.  I want to be clear that I am NOT bashing anybody's opinion or how they feel and in fact I truly do understand.  But the expectations I see people coming here with sometimes do seem to be the standard expectations for a live / newer mmo.  Total rebalancing passes are a huge deal.  Something that's a lot of work for a full staff of paid devs and testers and support working full time at a company.  You guys are asking, no strike that, expecting that the HC team to do this.  Is that really fair to them? 

 

They bring us this game back better than before and now we're all going to get impatient?  And while I certainly do not think there should be a click this one button to win, I think pulling on this particular thread just might mess things up big time for a LOT more folks than you guys realize.  I've been through way too many of this kind of thing in other mmo's to want to go through it here.  But I do understand WHY you guys feel the way you do.  I just don't think your expectations are completely realistic if you get pushy or demanding about it, or just want to pop into the forums to plant the seeds of doom. 

 

Championing your ideas and positions I am all for it.  Even when I disagree.  It's just the whole way it comes across to me - it seems ungrateful to come in here and predict doom and gloom under these circumstances if the HC guys don't hurry up and get with the program.  Sheesh!  Do any of you know the saying "Don't look a gift horse in the mouth?" and what it means?  I am asking this question seriously.  (oh, and yep, I know you can fire back at me with some other saying, but that's not the point.)  And I know I have no more right to come in here and wave my opinion around any more than anyone else.  But that is also sort of the point.  There are other opinions.

 

Since the IO's can trivialize certain content that you want to be more challenging, is the goal to change the content? 

Is it to rebalance all IO's to said content?

Is it to add new content that is balanced to be challenging with IO's?

If it is the latter would you be satisfied with not affecting the current state of the game for players who are happy with it the way it is?  In other words, what if HC could add some new content (and again this too is asking much) that meets the challenge you are wanting.  And does it have to be IO's?  Could they make task forces or other content that challenges you (and everyone) but leaves the game in a less disrupted state with regard to existing content to this point?  Or is the VERY IDEA that folks can play in easy mode what is really bothering you? (and that's honestly a fair feeling to have - just not one I share)

 

I mean WTbleep are you all really expecting here? lol (and I ask this lovingly and with genuine care for your take on things)

 

If you all can come up with something that doesn't make the game suck for me and others that would be cool.  I could get behind that,   But even then I still feel like threatening doom and gloom (while harmless and common) is a bit over the line for this situation.  If you don't like a restaurant (that many others like) do you hope they will go out of business?  (and I know that's not the view of everyone who hopes for these changes) 

 

Edited May 8, 2021 by KauaiJim

[Judasace]

On 1/22/2021 at 10:15 AM, Hyperstrike said:

But the game is SUPPOSED TO BE a challenge.

 

According to...? Why should the way YOU want to play cause the game to be changed for all of the other people playing. Turn off your XP, Turn your difficulty slider up, don't slot IOs, don't take incarnate powers. You can make the challenge be what you want...and if other people agree, you can all get together and play the same way.

 

A sizable portion of the playerbase already chooses to avoid challenges. Either getting farmed or running council missions to 50...and they seem to be having the experience they want, because they keep at it. Just because I've never joined a farm or a +4/8 Council mission doesn't mean I should be able to force every other player to play through the content like I do. I have fun playing my way, they have fun playing theirs, and there's no reason for either of us to jam up the other's opera.

 

Ass far as nonsense  like longevity or health of the game...this a 17 year old zombie MMO with less than 3k player logging in regularly...during a pandemic, even. It's great that the devs are adding content and making QoL changes...but I would suggest gamers looking for challenge try out any of the literally thousands of games that have been released in the last 17 years. They'll find plenty of different types of challenges for all skill levels, all without disrupting people that are having fun playing their ancient MMO.

Edited May 8, 2021 by Judasace

[Judasace]

6 hours ago, Brutal Justice said:

This is exactly what will prevent Homecoming from lasting as long as the original.  

 

 

 

Really? It's not the fact that it's already 17 years old and looks it? Or that it doesn't have a full paid Dev team to regularly update and add content? Or that the MMO genre as a whole is pretty much old news? Or that it doesn't have a AAA movie or SP game license? Or that it was designed from the ground up to work with machines still running Windows 98 and using dialup and is never going to appeal to younger gamers? Or that the majority of the playerbase is probably at least 35+ and probably doesn't have a gigantic Twitch following to promote the game...(not that streaming HC is permitted by the devs even if that weren't the case) ? 

 

None of those are reasons it doesn't have a huge playerbase with new players arriving daily? It's because it's not challenging enough?

 

Please. 🙄

[Hyperstrike]

52 minutes ago, Judasace said:

 

According to...? Why should the way YOU want to play cause the game to be changed for all of the other people playing. Turn off your XP, Turn your difficulty slider up, don't slot IOs, don't take incarnate powers. You can make the challenge be what you want...and if other people agree, you can all get together and play the same way.

 

A sizable portion of the playerbase already chooses to avoid challenges. Either getting farmed or running council missions to 50...and they seem to be having the experience they want, because they keep at it. Just because I've never joined a farm or a +4/8 Council mission doesn't mean I should be able to force every other player to play through the content like I do. I have fun playing my way, they have fun playing theirs, and there's no reason for either of us to jam up the other's opera.

 

Ass far as nonsense  like longevity or health of the game...this a 17 year old zombie MMO with less than 3k player logging in regularly...during a pandemic, even. It's great that the devs are adding content and making QoL changes...but I would suggest gamers looking for challenge try out any of the literally thousands of games that have been released in the last 17 years. They'll find plenty of different types of challenges for all skill levels, all without disrupting people that are having fun playing their ancient MMO.

Because playing a game where you're getting everything just because "I want it", isn't a game.
A game implies some form of competition.  Either with the environment or other players.
Or even just investing the time in the game.

"Here's everything" checks none of these boxes.

[Judasace]

34 minutes ago, Hyperstrike said:

Or even just investing the time in the game.

 

Which means then HC qualifies. There are servers that don't...Cake Evolution will bump you to 50 and fill your trays with IOs if you ask a GM, but here you have to put in some amount of time to level the character and get the inf.

 

So I guess you'd better head on over the CE server and tell them they're doing it wrong. I can give you their Discord if you like. I'm sure they'll be happy to hear from you.

Edited May 8, 2021 by Judasace

[America's Angel]

You can balance CoH either of the following ways:

 

Option 1 = All IOs, Incarnates, Inspirations, P2W buffs, base buffs

Option 2 = SOs

 

Vast majority of the content in the game is balanced around Option 2. Some rare endgame stuff (trials, hami) is based on Option 1.

 

The game needs more endgame content balanced around Option 1.

 

The game does not need existing endgame content changed to be balanced around Option 1.

 

Option 1 cannot be limited. ("We'll balance around IOs, but not P2W buffs or incarnates", etc). It has to be all or nothing, because that is how the game is played.

 

Golden rule of game balance: balance the game as it is played, not as you wish it was played.

Edited May 8, 2021 by America's Angel

[America's Angel]

On 3/1/2021 at 6:21 PM, Galaxy Brain said:

I think the fact that we have a ton of veteran players is a big factor. Combine that with the ease of access to lvl 50, to IO's, Incarnates, and they all mix together to make CoH quite breezy at times even when running the hard stuff. Hell, the last time I remember really eating dirt with my non-softcapped blaster was on a MLTF with Infinitum due to every bane spider in existence coalescing in one room! If it were a normal encounter with a normal amount of enemies it'd be a breeze. 

 

Something that @Infinitum and I have talked about though is that there definitely needs to be something new for us to chew on, and luckily we have the perfect place: The Shadow Shard

 

Not only is this a criminally underused area of the game, but it includes a built-in means to have "Special Enemies" with the Reflections (https://hcwiki.cityofheroes.dev/wiki/Shadow_Shard_Reflections). Lore wise, the Shadow Shard has mirrored versions of a ton of existing enemy groups, given that this is a place of Dreams then it could feature remixed enemies that could expand to different tiers if we want:

 

Reflection - basically a slightly tougher version of X enemy group. I would definitely allow low level enemies to reappear as lvl 50+ versions as reflections!

Dream - one step up, granted new powers and abilities

Nightmare - final step, totally bonkers abilities fitting their theme (Freakshow with a full suite of elec and claws powers, etc)

 

We could fit it in as even Radio-Style missions in the shards where defeating these Reflections somehow weakens Rularuu, and like how every X radio missions gets you a safeguard, every X Dream-Missions grant you a shot at a thematic Shadow Shard encounter. 

 

On top of all that, basic Rularuu enemies are able to tear whole teams a new one lol. 

 

 

This is a really good idea, actually.

 

You could even remake the existing taskforces (Positron, Synapse, Manticore, etc), populate them with "Reflections" of the original enemy groups, and make them absurdly hard level 50 TFs.

 

You could even be a bit cheeky with it, story wise. You are travelling through Rularuu's memories of when he first arrived, and the old taskforces seemed to be more difficult... 

[Hyperstrike]

12 hours ago, Judasace said:

 

Which means then HC qualifies. There are servers that don't...Cake Evolution will bump you to 50 and fill your trays with IOs if you ask a GM, but here you have to put in some amount of time to level the character and get the inf.

 

So I guess you'd better head on over the CE server and tell them they're doing it wrong. I can give you their Discord if you like. I'm sure they'll be happy to hear from you.

No.  I just won't play there.

So now I'll ask you.  Why are you trying to make Homecoming into Cake?
Hmm?
Why not just play over there if you just want "Gimme".

[Hew]

13 hours ago, Hyperstrike said:

Because playing a game where you're getting everything just because "I want it", isn't a game.
A game implies some form of competition.  Either with the environment or other players.
Or even just investing the time in the game.

 

Here is my agreement and disagreement. Ive known you for a pretty long time, so I know where you are coming from (looks back at numerous builds hyper has helped me build).

 

I think we have a fundamental issue with build homogenity.

 

Lately I have been going out of my way to NOT take fighting, and only occasionally taking man (mostly for assault, or assault and tactics, but never man for the stupid proc, and generally only man on a troller or a 'fender).

 

The new changes to the sorc pool, the travel pools, and the new concealment pool all open up new play styles. I think things that further enhance this and give new play styles that allow for other functional survival techniques would be nice.

 

For instance, acrobatics is nice, but its hella costly in power picks. What about new pool sets that have built in those kind of abilities, but lock you out of traditional picks?! Like Origin pools have lockouts, and Epics have lockouts. 

 

An example would be a vastly different pool than fighting, that locks fighting out, and instead offers a mix of low level mez prot + mez resist and some bonus other bits, but NO defense, and NO resist. Purely utility. That brings a new challenge into the game, new play styles, and new ways of approaching old problems.