Bitter Freeze Ray Converted to a Snipe

[Solarverse]

Who would have an issue with Bitter Freeze Ray animating and having the same cooldown + mechanic as a snipe, but keeping the damage the same and keeping the hold the same? For me personally, the animation just takes way too long so I rarely use it. I feel if it acted more like a real snipe, it would fit much better with the other Ice powers for Blasters/Corruptors. What do y'all think about it?

[aethereal]

Not 100% clear what you're suggesting.  Basically faster animation (assuming you're in combat) + more damage if your to-hit bonus is higher?

 

Ice is quite a good blast set already, albeit perhaps not at fire's tier.  Not sure it needs a buff that makes it trivial to stack holds on a boss with no or little ST DPS loss. 

[arcane]

It’s a nice idea if it weren’t being proposed on a set that already has perhaps the best single target damage, certainly the best boss holding capabilities, and some of the best animation times on every other single target power.

 

Now if you were to propose a similar gift to Shout...

Edited March 12, 2021 by arcane

[Apparition]

I would.  I strongly dislike snipes, and play Ice (and Dual Pistols and Water Blast) because they do not have snipes.  Not every ranged damage set needs a snipe, nor should have one as snipes do not suit every play style.  They certainly do not mine.

Edited March 12, 2021 by Apparition

[Solarverse]

4 hours ago, Apparition said:

I would.  I strongly dislike snipes, and play Ice (and Dual Pistols and Water Blast) because they do not have snipes.  Not every ranged damage set needs a snipe, nor should have one as snipes do not suit every play style.  They certainly do not mine.

That's understandable. I have always kind of viewed Bitter Ice Blast as a pseudo snipe as it stands, so I figured it would be easier if it were just made one. However, how would you feel if there were some type of proc system that could trigger an instant cast every....say....30 seconds or so? That way you would only get one instant cast bitter freeze ray approximately once per engagement,

[Galaxy Brain]

4 hours ago, Apparition said:

I would.  I strongly dislike snipes, and play Ice (and Dual Pistols and Water Blast) because they do not have snipes.  Not every ranged damage set needs a snipe, nor should have one as snipes do not suit every play style.  They certainly do not mine.

Not bashing you, but just curious as with my blasters I rarely if ever treat snipes as "Snipes" given they are  used in combat so often. Do you not like them in principle, or just their slow versions?

[aethereal]

I get wanting to make BFR better, it's certainly not very good right now.  I think that maybe something like "decrease cast time to somewhere around 1.25 seconds, give 30 or 45 second recharge time, damage = 0" would give it a role -- you could hit dangerous bosses with FR/BFR and quickly hold them, but you wouldn't get incidental boss-level holds throughout your ST rotation just "for free," which I don't think Ice Blast needs.

[Greycat]

15 minutes ago, Galaxy Brain said:

Not bashing you, but just curious as with my blasters I rarely if ever treat snipes as "Snipes" given they are  used in combat so often. Do you not like them in principle, or just their slow versions?

... flip side of that, nine times out of ten I wish I *only* had the slow version....

[Galaxy Brain]

14 minutes ago, Greycat said:

... flip side of that, nine times out of ten I wish I *only* had the slow version....

[Solarverse]

22 minutes ago, Greycat said:

... flip side of that, nine times out of ten I wish I *only* had the slow version....

 

I lead with the slow version, but find it utterly useless back when it was only a slow version mid fight. Way too many different things could cause an interrupt. I'm glad to still have the option to lead with the slow version, but even happier that I have the fast version mid fight.

[Greycat]

I have been forced into the fast (and lower damage) version far too often... or have to sit around and wait so I can actually one shot something I want to one shot. I'd love to be able to permanently disable fast snipe on my characters.

[arcane]

I just can’t comprehend thinking Ice Blast needs a buff right now so all this “do we even like snipes” bit seems beside the point 🙂

[Solarverse]

3 minutes ago, arcane said:

I just can’t comprehend thinking Ice Blast needs a buff right now so all this “do we even like snipes” bit seems beside the point 🙂

 

Honestly, if I had the option to just change the animation to that of Snipe (without changing anything else) I would be happy with that...since I am sure getting it changed to an actual snipe is going to be out of the question and stir far too much controversy, heh.

[Troo]

1 hour ago, aethereal said:

I think that maybe something like "decrease cast time to somewhere around 1.25 seconds, give 30 or 45 second recharge time, damage = 0" would give it a role

 On a corruptor that's the 15 sec recharge DOUBLING and 230 damage to ZERO?!

[aethereal]

2 hours ago, Troo said:

 On a corruptor that's the 15 sec recharge DOUBLING and 230 damage to ZERO?!

Sure, but who cares what its damage is now?  It's like fifth in Ice Blast's DPA rankings.

 

Cast BFR and one of Ice's good powers in the same amount of time it took to cast just BFR before, win-win.

 

Long recharge so you have to think about it, fast cast time so that when you want to hold something, you hold it now, not after you take another 25% of your health.  It wouldn't be anyone's favorite power in the set, but it would have a role (available to stack onto FR when needed), put one accuracy in it.  And the point is, Ice Blast doesn't need another mainline, "holy shit this is amazing" power.  Having a marginal power that nevertheless has a role sounds like an improvement.

Edit:

Current listed (ie, not arcanatime) DPAs for ice blast, blasters, level 50:

Ice bolt: 62.56
Ice blast: 61.44

Frost breath:  32.80
Freeze ray: 137.64

Ice storm: 57.53

Bitter ice blast: 133.31

Bitter freeze ray:  69.07

Blizzard: 205.46

 

So, it's really the 4th, not 5th, and one of those is the nuke.  But it has 2.5s animation time, so if its animation time was reduced to 1.25 seconds or so, you could literally cast new BFR and one of Ice Bolt, Freeze Ray, or Bitter Ice Blast in the same amount of time that it used to take to just cast BFR.

 

It's not as bad as I was remembering (especially once you take into account arcanatime, which will help it against all the other powers).  But by the same token, I don't think we can just give Ice Blast another fast-animating, high-damage hold when it already has Freeze Ray and Bitter Ice Blast.

 

Edit2:  The corruptor version doesn't really do 230 damage, just in-game help counts corruptor scourge damage -- BFR's base damage is half that, 115.

Edited March 12, 2021 by aethereal

[Apparition]

5 hours ago, Galaxy Brain said:

Not bashing you, but just curious as with my blasters I rarely if ever treat snipes as "Snipes" given they are  used in combat so often. Do you not like them in principle, or just their slow versions?

 

I just find snipes (both slow and fast), too fiddly, much like Assassin's Strike, (which is why I don't play Stalkers).  So I just avoid the ranged damage sets with snipes.  The lack of snipes in the Brute epic power pools is also one reason why I prefer Brutes to Scrappers.

[Vanden]

9 hours ago, Greycat said:

... flip side of that, nine times out of ten I wish I *only* had the slow version....

See, they should've made the PvP Snipe IO force the power into *slow* mode. It's useless to force the fast mode, because the only time it would actually *do* anything - when you're not in combat and are initiating it - is the only time slow mode is good!

[Solarverse]

7 hours ago, Vanden said:

See, they should've made the PvP Snipe IO force the power into *slow* mode. It's useless to force the fast mode, because the only time it would actually *do* anything - when you're not in combat and are initiating it - is the only time slow mode is good!

I actually like that idea. You don't *need* the snipe IOs to make snipe good, you can use Ranged DPS IOs and it still be perfectly viable. I like that, make Snipe IO's convert it to the long version only.

[golstat2003]

1 hour ago, Solarverse said:

I actually like that idea. You don't *need* the snipe IOs to make snipe good, you can use Ranged DPS IOs and it still be perfectly viable. I like that, make Snipe IO's convert it to the long version only.

I would prefer if they created a separate IO snipe set that goes this.

[Solarverse]

3 hours ago, golstat2003 said:

I would prefer if they created a separate IO snipe set that goes this.

Even better. Good idea.

[Glacier Peak]

On 3/12/2021 at 2:00 AM, Solarverse said:

Who would have an issue with Bitter Freeze Ray animating and having the same cooldown + mechanic as a snipe, but keeping the damage the same and keeping the hold the same? For me personally, the animation just takes way too long so I rarely use it. I feel if it acted more like a real snipe, it would fit much better with the other Ice powers for Blasters/Corruptors. What do y'all think about it?

 

I would just ask the animation time to be more in line with Blaze and call it a day. It's a great power - range, damage, hold mag. It trades off with lower base acc, huge end cost and an eternity of rooting during the animation. Regardless, I think it is a mandatory power selection for Ice Blast in the end game due to proc-ability.

Edited March 14, 2021 by Glacier Peak

[America's Angel]

/jranger

 

Ice Blast does not need a buff. BFR is fine for what it is.

[Outrider_01]

Remember this thread, how about this

 

Out of combat, its a snipe with shorter range.  It just gets the damage bonus, or possibly it has a higher magnitude hold applied

 

In combat, insta cast damage applied. Or it gets a magnitude hold.

 

for a snipe mechanic without it being a snipe.  Its a hold with high damage outside of combat at the start of battle.  In combat its just faster casting, but can have a chance to proc a mag 1 hold instead of 2 because of the fast recharge/animation.

[Ukase]

I seldom use BFR.  I get that some like it for procs, but the animation takes too long to suit me. If I'm solo, I will open with it, follow with FR, then BiB, depending on the targets involved. 

While some may say no to ice having a snipe, there's no gun to the head saying it must be selected.  I think ice should have a snipe. And I can only somewhat go along with the reasonings it doesn't. 

I find it comical. There's a line from "Guys and Dolls" I recall somewhat clearly. "why does a doll when she loves a guy want to take him in for alterations?"

You've found this game you love, now you want to change it. That makes no sense to me.