Focused Feedback: Travel Power Updates (Build 1)

[Wavicle]

9 minutes ago, arthurh35353 said:

This does seem to be a problem for me too. I couldn't tell when momentum was up. I just kind of had to hope it had been 4ish seconds. There needs to be a pretty significant sound/flash or something so you can tell it's ready.

A ring would be nice.

[Doc_Scorpion]

9 minutes ago, ninja surprise said:

Super Speed is amazing, although it seems random when Momentum builds up. Maybe it's because I'll do a bunch of little jumps while running through a zone to get over fences, bushes, etc. I wish Speed Phase worked for those obstacles! So I might be spending Momentum on little jumps and don't see it build up for a big jump.

If I understand what @Captain Powerhouse  said in the Discord correctly:  as you SS around, you're building stacks of momentum and those little jumps do consume some of what you've built up.

[Glacier Peak]

6 minutes ago, Wavicle said:

A ring would be nice.

I want the beige?/yellow ring to change to the red ring we get from Long Range Teleport after a second use. 😁

[Bopper]

1 minute ago, Doc_Scorpion said:

If I understand what @Captain Powerhouse  said in the Discord correctly:  as you SS around, you're building stacks of momentum and those little jumps do consume some of what you've built up.

Correct. You have to be on the ground and moving to build up momentum. A momentum stack should add every 0.5s and will last for 4s, so your max cap should be 8 stacks (might fluctuate). 

[GM Korvin]

3 hours ago, Wavicle said:

A ring would be nice.

 

Quote

 Super Speed

• Now increases your run speed cap by 30% while toggled on (from 92.5mph to 120.25mph)
  • This increase doesn't apply in PvP
• Now has a new momentum leap mechanic
  • Running will build up momentum, allowing you to perform a single very high, very long jump after approximately 4 seconds of running
  • Jumping will cause you to expend your momentum - after landing, you'll need to remain grounded and running in order to perform another momentum jump
  • Super Speed's icon will gain a yellow ring when you are at maximum momentum

[CaptainLupis]

6 hours ago, Galaxy Brain said:

 

I know where you're getting at Troo, but I think its a perspective thing.

 

Nabbing this from the OP:

 

 

Lets whip up a new character on Beta:

 

 

As-is, these are my speeds.

 

Lets turn sprint on:

 

 

Super Speed by itself:

 

 

 

 

Now, super speed + sprint:

 

 

 

Super Speed + Sprint with a single SO in Swift:

 

 

 

Not much difference, but hey its something. I would reckon many people would slap a single speed SO into SS as well:

 

 

Not too shabby since the current live cap is 92.5mph. With bare minimal investment, we are solid 10% faster than the cap you need lots of investment on live for!

 

 

 

With 2 SO's in super speed, you are so dang close to the cap it's silly. Slapping a run speed in sprint (or 3 slotting SS) will totally cap you out now. Just to be sure, I was able to cap with only 3 SO's in SS + toggling sprint (no slots) , removing the SO from swift:

 

 

 

If we wanna go even further down the rabbit hole:

 

3 slotted swift only:

 

 

 

3 slotted sprint + 3 slotted swift:

 

 

 

 

But anyways, as for those travel times we can do some guestimation thanks to good old math thanks to @Glacier Peak:

 

Power/Course	Peregrine Island (2.72 miles)	Nerva Archipelago (1.96 miles)
Super Speed	1 minute, 22 seconds	59 seconds

 

(I cut Grandville as it is not as easy to map the distance vs speed)

 

Speed = Distance / Time, so :

 

PI = 2.72 / 01:22 = 119.41 mph avg (being under the cap here could be a matter of feet. If I calculate the reverse of 120.24mph * 82s = 2.74miles)

 

Luckily, we can solve for time by doing Distance/Speed. With my numbers above, we can easily plug it in:

 

19.33 base = 8:27  (16% the speed)

33.65 sprint = 4:27 (31%)

45.21 swift sprint = 3:37 (38%)

69.44 Super Speed alone no slots = 2:21 (58%)

83.76 Super Speed Sprint = 1:57 (70%)

102.13 minimal investment = 1:36 (85%)

 

 

NA = 1.96 / 00:59 = 119.59 mph avg

 

19.33 base = 6:05  (16% the speed)

33.65 sprint = 3:30 (28%)

45.21 swift sprint = 2:36 (38%)

69.44 Super Speed alone no slots = 1:42 (58%)

83.76 Super Speed Sprint = 1:24 (70%)

102.13 minimal investment = 1:09 (86%)

 

 

 

 

So to answer the question, it very much depends on the task but even the longest distance is sub-2:00 with SS + Sprint and 0 enhancements.

The thing about SS is how close you can get to the cap with no extra investment of slots or powers, which you can't do with the others. With a 50+5 IO in swift, sprint and SS I was getting 119.6 mph on test. How many people actually do that I have no idea.

 

Maybe if sprint had a benefit to fly in a similar way as it benefits SS and SJ, and that swift does for fly, it would help even things out a bit? Possibly not a direct fly speed buff but an increase in duration, or reduction of the recharge time, for afterburner?

 

Edit: I should point out that I have never actually tested whether the +jump height sprint adds to SJ equates to extra speed due to longer in air time, so possibly it is only SS that really benefits in point A to point B time comparisons from sprint currently.

Edited March 17, 2021 by CaptainLupis

[RageusQuitus2]

Did i miss it or did team tp get shafted again?  Looks like no improvements in two rounds of reworks to the pool.  I use this on all my MMs.  

 

Yall really need to look at making pets part of tp.  Pets are my character and powers. 

[Wavicle]

1 hour ago, GM Korvin said:

 

lol

 

 someone said they were having trouble seeing it... maybe they just weren’t waiting long enough?

[Parabola]

13 minutes ago, Wavicle said:

lol

 

 someone said they were having trouble seeing it... maybe they just weren’t waiting long enough?

It's not the brightest ring in the world but I had no trouble seeing it once I knew to look for it.

[Replacement]

Hi.

Some subjective feedback:

 

I'm not really thrilled with double jump.

 

I'm not really sure what I would do in its place - and i recognize it's not really intended to add value to an already good travel power - but it still feels a bit like making super jump into Fly.

[Bopper]

4 hours ago, CaptainLupis said:

The thing about SS is how close you can get to the cap with no extra investment of slots or powers, which you can't do with the others. With a 50+5 IO in swift, sprint and SS I was getting 119.6 mph on test. How many people actually do that I have no idea

Fly and Jump can also achieve their caps easily. With two slots in Fly/Mystic/Super Leap/Mighty Leap, you can hit their caps with enhancements only (not set bonuses). 

 

You can also hit the fly cap with Fly and Evasive Maneuvers without slotting any enhancements. 

[Parabola]

56 minutes ago, Replacement said:

Hi.

Some subjective feedback:

 

I'm not really thrilled with double jump.

 

I'm not really sure what I would do in its place - and i recognize it's not really intended to add value to an already good travel power - but it still feels a bit like making super jump into Fly.

I know what you mean, of the three pop-up abilities double jump is definitely the one that feels the most artificial. Certainly useful though in that it exactly replaces the jump pack I take on all my jumpers.

 

The only possibly more thematic idea I can think of is for a 'super-dooper jump' where starting from the ground and for a single leap only you get a massive jump speed/height/distance buff, like to the ceiling of the skybox massive. It would be nowhere near as functional but would be fun to use I think. I can imagine it going well with a suitably thunderous take off sound and a superhero landing animation.

[CaptainLupis]

10 minutes ago, Bopper said:

Fly and Jump can also achieve their caps easily. With two slots in Fly/Mystic/Super Leap/Mighty Leap, you can hit their caps with enhancements only (not set bonuses). 

 

You can also hit the fly cap with Fly and Evasive Maneuvers without slotting any enhancements. 

I know, but as I said you can get as close to the run cap as makes no difference without that extra investment in slots or powers.

[Bopper]

Just now, CaptainLupis said:

I know, but as I said you can get as close to the run cap as makes no difference without that extra investment in slots or powers.

Gotcha, having Sprint be a free pick is certainly a huge advantage in Super Speed's case. Hopefully this is not something that gets interpreted as a suggestion to make Sprint exclusive to Super Speed as nobody will want to see that happen. I also hope this does not mean to make Super Speed's base values lower so that when combined with the free Sprint power that the investment in slotting matches that of other travel powers. Afterall, running sprint does cost more endurance and I wouldn't want to see it as reason to reduce Super Speed performance to match with other travel powers' two slot investment.

[arthurh35353]

I'm not totally understanding the change of Afterburner into Evasive Maneuvers. The old afterburner was a pure out of combat power to hit the max flight speed and had some buffs/negatives so that you could travel in relative safety.

 

The full flight speed buff was dumped into a sub-power of Flight and now there's a whole bug of combat powers with some out of combat buffs, with the thought you could keep from being rooted while you tanker stealth or something?

 

The buffs seem aimed at PvP... which means they changed it from a niche out of combat power to a niche combat power, as PvP is not a large population.

[CaptainLupis]

3 minutes ago, Bopper said:

Gotcha, having Sprint be a free pick is certainly a huge advantage in Super Speed's case. Hopefully this is not something that gets interpreted as a suggestion to make Sprint exclusive to Super Speed as nobody will want to see that happen. I also hope this does not mean to make Super Speed's base values lower so that when combined with the free Sprint power that the investment in slotting matches that of other travel powers. Afterall, running sprint does cost more endurance and I wouldn't want to see it as reason to reduce Super Speed performance to match with other travel powers' two slot investment.

Indeed, which is why I was suggesting giving fly some kind of boost from sprint as well, such as a slightly increased duration of afterburner, or reduced recharge, while sprint is toggled on. I have no idea how hard that would be to implement as opposed to just adding a +fly movement buff to it.

[Apparition]

3 minutes ago, arthurh35353 said:

I'm not totally understanding the change of Afterburner into Evasive Maneuvers. The old afterburner was a pure out of combat power to hit the max flight speed and had some buffs/negatives so that you could travel in relative safety.

 

The full flight speed buff was dumped into a sub-power of Flight and now there's a whole bug of combat powers with some out of combat buffs, with the thought you could keep from being rooted while you tanker stealth or something?

 

The buffs seem aimed at PvP... which means they changed it from a niche out of combat power to a niche combat power, as PvP is not a large population.

 

The changes have nothing to do with PvP.  Evasive Maneuvers is simply just more useful in combat for those who Fly or Hover in missions by providing Immobilization protection and Knockback resistance, while still providing a flight speed buff if you need it (I.e. if you don’t slot Fly), and a defense buff out of combat.

[Myrmidon]

13 minutes ago, arthurh35353 said:

The buffs seem aimed at PvP... which means they changed it from a niche out of combat power to a niche combat power, as PvP is not a large population.

Ok, I had “blame PvP for Fly changes” in the pool. Pay up, guys.

 

 

 

 

As Apparition said, these changes have nothing at all to do with PvP.

[Bopper]

9 minutes ago, Apparition said:

 

The changes have nothing to do with PvP.  Evasive Maneuvers is simply just more useful in combat for those who Fly or Hover in missions by providing Immobilization protection and Knockback resistance, while still providing a flight speed buff if you need it (I.e. if you don’t slot Fly), and a defense buff out of combat.

Yup, currently Afterburner gives you a defense buff that prevents you from attacking (only affects self). The devs already said in next patch Evasive Maneuvers will give a defense buff only if you don't attack. So the only change between Afterburner Live and Evasive Maneuvers is you are not forced into OAS, you can choose to attack but it will turn off your defense.

 

As for the speed cap from Afterburner live, that is given to Fly for free now. In fact, you don't have to enhance the speed cap either, you are given maxed out Afterburner for free. Oh, but you also get the new Afterburner as a temporary sub-power to fly that will increase your fly speed cap even further and will grant a fly speed buff to all your fly powers to help you reach that new cap without extra slotting (something Afterburner Live doesn't do).

 

Edit: Also forgot Evasive Maneuvers is cheaper to run than afterburner (and will be made even cheaper next patch) and it provides some status protection and a boost to incombat flying speeds.

Edited March 17, 2021 by Bopper

[arthurh35353]

15 minutes ago, Apparition said:

The changes have nothing to do with PvP.  Evasive Maneuvers is simply just more useful in combat for those who Fly or Hover in missions by providing Immobilization protection and Knockback resistance, while still providing a flight speed buff if you need it (I.e. if you don’t slot Fly), and a defense buff out of combat.

So... it's more niche combat power that doesn't give you a buff to defense for reasons so that people can't stack it on top of existing defense buffs (because people would abuse it that way.)

 

This is (my opinion) a mostly useless change. I'm sure they data mined that Afterburner wasn't being picked very often, but now they changed it to give benefits (but not the defense!) for anti-KB and rooting... which no one was actually asking for. Oh, and a bit of a +fly max speed buff, instead of the old always max speed ability it had.

 

There is nothing compelling that would make me want to invest in another power choice here. 

[gameboy1234]

21 hours ago, Bopper said:

Great data point. 153s flight time versus 140s flight time, you're basically covering 91.5% of the distance per unit time.

 

If you don't mind, can you expand on your results? What was your slotting? Or better yet, what were your run/jump/fly/afterburner speeds?

 

This was a brand new character on Brainstorm that I auto-leveled to 30 with the cheat menu.  So no accolades, temp powers, day jobs, etc.

 

All the powers are completely unslotted.  So these are base values only.  I'll try to test later with some SOs.

 

Base Powers, nothing toggled on (not even Sprint)

Run Speed: 19.33 mph

Flying Speed: 24.41 mph

Jumping Speed: 32.14 mph

Max Jump: 10.67 ft

 

W/ Fly: Flying Speed: 56.66 mph

 

W/ Fly and Afterburner: 71.00 mph

 

W/ Super Jump + Super Speed:

Run Speed 69.44 mph

Jump Speed: 67.80 mph

Max Jump: 121.87 mph

 

 

 

[RogueWolf]

I am trying to understand the logic behind some of the new powers. On one level I appreciate making the pools a little more enticing, especially the speed buffs. But...

 

For such a high endo cost, why does Evasive Maneuvers only grant defense out of combat? Flight control is not a problem when you are hovering, so there's no real benefit here that I can see. I also would have figured it would include the minor +2 Hold protect like Acrobatics has (otherwise all my solo blasters must keep their Leaping powers). As it is now, I'm not sure why I would take EM.

 

Similarly with Infiltration... I understand why that one is out of combat only since it's the travel power, but then why take the new "Stealth" toggle on top of it for such savage endo cost without any in-combat bonuses? I would want it if I could switch between the two for combat purpoes.

Edited March 17, 2021 by RogueWolf

[Glacier Peak]

2 hours ago, arthurh35353 said:

So... it's more niche combat power

While this is your opinion, the fact is that Evasive Maneuvers provides clear benefits for its selection that work seamlessly with the other powers in the flight travel pool. Hover is the entry level power in the flight travel pool and it exists for "hovering and aerial combat. This power is much slower than Fly, but provides some Defense to all attacks, offers good air control, costs little Endurance, and has none of the penalties associated with Fly" (Power Description quote). It is recommended for use when fighting other flying enemies. By the numbers it provides a 4.05 magnitude buff to Fly on self and a 2.95% strength to all defense on self, which is enhanceable and it costs 0.19/s endurance. Fly is the primary travel power in the flight travel pool and provides the highest freedom of movement among all travel powers contrasted against its low level of active management from the player. "Fly allows you to travel large distances quickly. If you attack a target while this power is on, your flight speed will be temporarily reduced to Hover speed. Fly also increases your maximum flying speed by 50% and gives you access to the Afterburner power whilst it is active." It offers a 1.00 magnitude buff to fly on self and costs .46/s endurance. Finally, Evasive Maneuvers "provides increased flight control and flight speed in combat, along with resistance to knockback and protection against -Fly and Immobilization. Evasive Maneuvers also provides a small amount of Defense whilst you are not engaged in combat", it costs .52/s endurance and provides both in combat and out of combat bonuses. It may be easy to dismiss it's benefits by simply reading the patch notes, but it is worth trying to fly through an enemy mob on the way to a mission with your added +17.72% boost to ALL DEFENSE (positional and typed) and see if you get hit. Or if you just want to speed to the end of a 'collect item' mission and not get hit a bunch. All this to say that Evasive Maneuvers adds tangible benefits to it's set and gives players added utility in both combat and non-combat situations. This is its niche, its function rather.

 

 

Quote

that doesn't give you a buff to defense for reasons so that people can't stack it on top of existing defense buffs (because people would abuse it that way.)

Here is something of interest I found from testing - Masterminds are able to continue utilizing the Evasive Maneuvers defense buff even while in combat. As long as the player doesn't use their attacks (single target, cone, AoEs) and relies only on their Mastermind Pet commands, they can effectively keep the 17.72% defense buff to ALL (positional and typed) while in combat. To me, this appears unintentional - but by actually testing out a power in different use cases for reasons hopefully I provided input that the HC team can use to make the game better for everyone.

 

 

Quote

This is (my opinion) a mostly useless change.

As @GM Impervium said so eloquently in another thread: 

 

 

Quote

I'm sure they data mined that Afterburner wasn't being picked very often, but now they changed it to give benefits (but not the defense!) for anti-KB and rooting... which no one was actually asking for.

Evasive Maneuvers provides Res to (-Fly and Immobilize) and 138.40% resistance to knockup on self. That being said, absent of any evidence, I have to assume that you data mined player power choice in order to come up with your conclusion? Can you provide some of your data? 

 

 

Quote

Oh, and a bit of a +fly max speed buff, instead of the old always max speed ability it had.

Evasive Maneuvers applies a 14.32 MPH buff to Flight Speed.  

 

 

Quote

There is nothing compelling that would make me want to invest in another power choice here. 

See comment above regarding opinions as feedback.

 

Edited March 17, 2021 by Glacier Peak
endurance numbers were off

[Glacier Peak]

38 minutes ago, RogueWolf said:

I am trying to understand the logic behind some of the new powers. On one level I appreciate making the pools a little more enticing, especially the speed buffs. But...

 

For such a high endo cost, why does Evasive Maneuvers only grant defense out of combat? Flight control is not a problem when you are hovering, so there's no real benefit here that I can see. I also would have figured it would include the minor +2 Hold protect like Acrobatics has (otherwise all my solo blasters must keep their Leaping powers). As it is now, I'm not sure why I would take EM.

 

Similarly with Infiltration... I understand why that one is out of combat only since it's the travel power, but then why take the new "Stealth" toggle on top of it for such savage endo cost without any in-combat bonuses? I would want it if I could switch between the two for combat purpoes.

For Evasive Maneuvers, you can reduce the endurance cost of the power if it's 0.52/s cost is too steep for your character. It provides some status protection to immobilize and knockup.

Edited March 17, 2021 by Glacier Peak
End cost was with enhancements, fixed

[RogueWolf]

KB protect is nice, but not for that high a cost, and it can be gained by IOs. Most ATs who are susceptible to immobilize don't care much about getting immobilized.

 

I'm mostly thinking of my blaster here. The minor save vs Hold in Acrobatics is useful to them. EM is not in its current form. Especially when I can't slot it with anything useful because I need to put two end reductions into it so I can keep it on... tho why would I?  There are no flight control issues when hovering.

Edited March 17, 2021 by RogueWolf