Focused Feedback: Power Changes (Release Candidates)

[ScarySai]

I'd like to see Full Auto get a similar treatment to Hail. If you don't touch anything it plays the 'full' animation, but you can basically cut it off whenever you want once the actual back-end activation time is over.

[Wavicle]

1 hour ago, StratoNexus said:

I find it somewhat odd that this very strong AoE power would animate faster than Fire Sword Circle, Combustion, Short Circuit, etc.

To be frank, all of those animations are also too long.

[DreadShinobi]

7 hours ago, arcane said:

Also the implication that Spirit Ward is half as useless as, say, Boxing or Kick is incorrect. Not only is it a decent power, but it’s a free extra enhancement slot via muling Preventive Medicine even if you never use the power.

I have never minded the prerequisite boxing to get tough and weave. Most of my builds use boxing for 5 absolute amazement ios. The fighting pool is a powerhouse for passive always active stat bolstering.

[Dahkness]

I've spent the last couple days building different MM's on the test for several hours!  Thanks to that new Macro!!! <3. I was able to make a lot of toons really fast. Super helpful!

Not a lot to report, here is what's stopping me from making one on live:

 

I still find it frustrating when your pets die in battle and you still have to spend 5/10 seconds resuming/buffing them in long animations. -
You have to pick every pet/upgrade for each MM to consider even doing some kind of dmg. The MM builds seem like they all are really tight. I really tried to make a good build with 1 pet and try to focus on my secondary a little bit more but you do no dmg without your pets. Also having/wanting  to set up 10 binds to keep your pets in check and keeping  your pets alive and buffed all at the same time is not worth the stress when you can play another class with not as nearly as much stress. 
-I am new to the class. So it might be something I need to adapt to. This is coming from someone that has never played the class tell this Beta. Still learning the play style. My option will definitely change! I'm gonna keep testing and learning the class.

 

I look forward to testing more MM builds in future updates! The buffs they got are awesome. Taking the right steps!

Edited March 26, 2021 by Dahkness

[Darkir]

On 3/24/2021 at 2:44 AM, Replacement said:

If no (do not roll back, keep unconditional resistance), that's a buff to a power that's already providing a lot of benefit many builds cannot get elsewhere.

Isn't this just a fix? Wasn't it always supposed to give the resistance regardless of when you used it? Nothing in the power description suggests that it should work this way.

 

P.S. please don't change RoP duration. Please just bring the other origin pool powers duration in line with it so they also have a 90 second duration. 3 power picks, 1 of which is almost certainly a complete waste, is enough of a sacrifice for a 90 second origin power like RoP or unleash potential. 

[Darkir]

On 3/24/2021 at 12:04 PM, ScarySai said:

kinetic corruptors

(This is in reference to him saying kinetic corruptors don't use RoP.)

 

Ummmm, yes we did/do. If the changes go through to 60s, we won't, but as the author of a very popular fire/kin (plus helping tons of other people build their kins), I assure you that lots of kins use it. I don't need to use it though, if this change goes through I will simply post a break free combining macro in my thread with a new build that likely takes goes m/r softcap with an epic armor so that fire/kins have greater resistance overall, but now need to use break frees for mez protection. Which, honestly, is probably a stronger build overall (60-75% s/l res at all times is better than 60-75% half to 3/4 of the time), but I have been resisting needing to use inspirations and macros.

 

The benefits of RoP with the recharge taken into account make it just worth it for me to take it. To be clear, if the duration was 75, I wouldn't take it on my fire/kin. If it was 80, I'd have to think about it and do some testing. A 3 power pick on a toon that has absolutely 0 natural resistance or defense is extremely strapped when they are looking for survivability. RoP is just barely worth it right now.

 

RoP is often taken on squishies whose power sets lack natural defenses or resistances (like kinetics and poison) because it gives those toons a way to get those abilities at a cost of not being able to use it permanently and a 3 power sacrifice. It's a high price to pay, but it is often worth the trade off.

 

I am also surprised to read you write (hear you say, but in forum speak maybe?) that blasters, kinetic corruptors, and cold domination users are at the top of the food chain when my brutes can go from mission to mission at +4x8 with softcapped defences, high resistances, high damage, and mez protection. According to the numbers, corruptors are not that common compared to brutes, scrappers, and blasters. There is a reason for this, those ATs often offer more power and ease of play to the user. 

 

P.S. I am talking to you here, but really only in the first part, you were a good stand in for my writing voice to talk to, at no point do I mean to come across as attacking you. It was just easier to write as if I was talking to you the whole time.

[Darkir]

9 hours ago, DreadShinobi said:

I have never minded the prerequisite boxing to get tough and weave. Most of my builds use boxing for 5 absolute amazement ios. The fighting pool is a powerhouse for passive always active stat bolstering.

I mind needing to take boxing every single time. I can't learn to dodge without learning to punch? Wth. 

[siolfir]

2 hours ago, Darkir said:

Isn't this just a fix? Wasn't it always supposed to give the resistance regardless of when you used it? Nothing in the power description suggests that it should work this way.

 

P.S. please don't change RoP duration. Please just bring the other origin pool powers duration in line with it so they also have a 90 second duration. 3 power picks, 1 of which is almost certainly a complete waste, is enough of a sacrifice for a 90 second origin power like RoP or unleash potential. 

 

I personally consider it this way, but they have explicitly stated that it was intended to not work that way originally and the power description didn't reflect it. So either way it's a bug fix, whether it was the power description or the power effects.

 

 

2 hours ago, Darkir said:

The benefits of RoP with the recharge taken into account make it just worth it for me to take it. To be clear, if the duration was 75, I wouldn't take it on my fire/kin. If it was 80, I'd have to think about it and do some testing. A 3 power pick on a toon that has absolutely 0 natural resistance or defense is extremely strapped when they are looking for survivability. RoP is just barely worth it right now.

 

RoP is often taken on squishies whose power sets lack natural defenses or resistances (like kinetics and poison) because it gives those toons a way to get those abilities at a cost of not being able to use it permanently and a 3 power sacrifice. It's a high price to pay, but it is often worth the trade off.

 

I'm personally just on the other side of the fence of "barely worth it right now" and it goes from "not quite worth it" to "not even worth considering," which is where I lump the other origin pool T5s. That's why I was saying that, if the intent was to normalize the durations, the shorter durations should be increased to match Rune's rather than the other way around. They should be tempting, not dismissable.

[Replacement]

5 hours ago, Darkir said:

Isn't this just a fix? Wasn't it always supposed to give the resistance regardless of when you used it? Nothing in the power description suggests that it should work this way.

 

P.S. please don't change RoP duration. Please just bring the other origin pool powers duration in line with it so they also have a 90 second duration. 3 power picks, 1 of which is almost certainly a complete waste, is enough of a sacrifice for a 90 second origin power like RoP or unleash potential. 

Intentional but not communicated. Jimmy confirmed in the first power changes thread.

 

 

[ScarySai]

6 hours ago, Darkir said:

(This is in reference to him saying kinetic corruptors don't use RoP.)

 

I didn't say that, I said this won't stop them from being on top of the food chain. 

6 hours ago, Darkir said:

I am also surprised to read you write (hear you say, but in forum speak maybe?) that blasters, kinetic corruptors, and cold domination users are at the top of the food chain when my brutes can go from mission to mission at +4x8 with softcapped defences, high resistances, high damage, and mez protection.

 

I was speaking more to speed runs and that ultra min/max kind of thing in the writing. Often, fire/fire blasters, at least one kinetic and at least one cold dom are used.

 

 

No kin, but they're eating tons of reds. 

 

Whatever the intent of the change was, all it accomplishes is reducing diversity. It will not impact the meta, that was the point I was making.

Edited March 26, 2021 by ScarySai

[Glacier Peak]

12 hours ago, ScarySai said:

 

I didn't say that, I said this won't stop them from being on top of the food chain. 

 

I was speaking more to speed runs and that ultra min/max kind of thing in the writing. Often, fire/fire blasters, at least one kinetic and at least one cold dom are used.

 

 

No kin, but they're eating tons of reds. 

 

Whatever the intent of the change was, all it accomplishes is reducing diversity. It will not impact the meta, that was the point I was making.

Great content!

[VashNKnives]

Since I didn't have RoP experience I made a build on live with I/Os that I thought could benefit heavily from it... rad/dp Defender currently in its 30s running choking cloud and the main rad debuff toggles going up against mezzy mobs.... I'm probably too low level still, but am pretty unimpressed with RoP even with the 90 sec duration. With just ok recharge from slotting, AM, Hasten, and a couple set bonuses I still try to use it reactively and it hasn't really been that great due to animation time and long recharge. I will switch to proactive use asap. 

 

I will also keep going toward 50+, but I think if this goes live I may jump ship to the new flight pool for the extra defense and flight control (also dislike how loose mystical flight is but do like translocate) and just use the sorcery slots on the epic shield that I'm currently not going to toggle most of the time b/c endurance.

 

This character's  concept of sorcery doesn't hinge on the rune graphics enough or even at all. I feel anyone that is doing a rune mage will be less likely to be able to walk away and I don't think origin pools should feel weak even compared to primary powers. So if anything I would be in favor of buffs and not nerfs and would keep it 90 sec until more assessments could be done.

[esotericist]

i haven't exactly been active lately, but i'm trying to get back into the game.

 

my "main" character, such as it is, is a mercs/time "tankermind" build. for complex reasons not worth going into here, i am intentionally not getting incarnate powers on the character.

 

even with that constraint i'd barely managed in my build to get rune of protection to slightly better than 50% uptime¹. but despite time being a rather strong set, because of the minutia of mercs² i'm limited in my options for dealing with a lot of problems. i pretty much designed my entire build around trying to make rune of protection help me survive difficult spans of spite.

 

going from 90s up/~86 seconds down to 60s up/~116 seconds down is a pretty big swing for a mm that is tanking for pets.

 

if there turn out to be valid, necessary reasons for rune of protection to be nerfed, i will be sad, but figure out how to adapt.

 

but please, provide those reasons? "let's make it consistent, but incidentally savage the survivability of the characters which relied it" isn't very nice.

 

notably: it doesn't serve exactly the same role as the 'equivalent' powers in the other pools. they all clearly have different purposes in what they provide. how is duration parity meaningful given that?

 

^{1 notably, i use it on demand rather than as part of any rotation, due to lacking anything else to bridge the spans with.} 

^{2 while i'm excited about trying the full auto changes, mercs is very much lacking in reliable control options, and barring a substantial redesign i don't see spec ops becoming viable utility}

Edited March 27, 2021 by esotericist
powerset ordering

[Haijinx]

I'm kind of amazed that there are ardent defenders for keeping a pool power untouched that is basically better than T9 Strength Of Will from the Secondary Willpower Armor sets, with (still) potentially a bigger uptime. 

 

Woe, what has all this Power Creep Wrought?

[ForeverLaxx]

17 minutes ago, Haijinx said:

I'm kind of amazed that there are ardent defenders for keeping a pool power untouched that is basically better than T9 Strength Of Will from the Secondary Willpower Armor sets, with (still) potentially a bigger uptime.

It really shouldn't be surprising that one of the only "high tier" Pool Powers that people can justify sinking multiple power picks into has people who don't want it to become another dead power in a sea of dead powers. It being "better" (not universally true anyway, depending on AT) than some random armor set's T9 while still being a rare, niche pick says more about the sad state of that armor's T9 than it does about the strength of the pool power. Armor T9s have been mostly a waste for most sets for a long time in general anyway.

[Saikochoro]

1 hour ago, ForeverLaxx said:

It really shouldn't be surprising that one of the only "high tier" Pool Powers that people can justify sinking multiple power picks into has people who don't want it to become another dead power in a sea of dead powers. It being "better" (not universally true anyway, depending on AT) than some random armor set's T9 while still being a rare, niche pick says more about the sad state of that armor's T9 than it does about the strength of the pool power. Armor T9s have been mostly a waste for most sets for a long time in general anyway.

Couldn’t have said it better myself. Just quoted for emphasis.

Edited March 27, 2021 by Saikochoro

[esotericist]

my position is: if it's a problematic power, then yeah, sure, action might be required.

 

but please demonstrate that it is actually problematic, and how the action taken addresses that problem.

 

as other people have noted, what you have to take in order to get rune of protection in the first place is somewhat questionable. making those bits work usefully in a build is hard, and for most builds you can get better, more practical results investing elsewhere. probably even with better slotting options.

 

and speaking for myself, i'd prefer nerfs to other aspects of the power before reductions to availability. what it provides how often is what matters to me, not the magnitude of what it provides. i don't want to be unbeatable (and this power can't get me that even as-is), but i do want a build option that's meaningful. as alluded to above by others, i've always skipped T9 armors because they're usually not meaningful build options in my eyes.

 

but that's just me.

[golstat2003]

6 hours ago, ForeverLaxx said:

It really shouldn't be surprising that one of the only "high tier" Pool Powers that people can justify sinking multiple power picks into has people who don't want it to become another dead power in a sea of dead powers. It being "better" (not universally true anyway, depending on AT) than some random armor set's T9 while still being a rare, niche pick says more about the sad state of that armor's T9 than it does about the strength of the pool power. Armor T9s have been mostly a waste for most sets for a long time in general anyway.

 

Spot on. When I read that I was like "People still take armor T9s? Even with IOs? Why????"

Edited March 28, 2021 by golstat2003

[EnjoyTheJourney]

One more hand raised for "Was surprised to hear there are people who believe RoP is a significant barrier to taking armor T9 powers." That's not been my experience. Rather, the generally low value added by taking T9 powers has been the biggest barrier to taking T9 powers. 

[Saikochoro]

12 minutes ago, EnjoyTheJourney said:

One more hand raised for "Was surprised to hear there are people who believe RoP is a significant barrier to taking armor T9 powers." That's not been my experience. Rather, the generally low value added by taking T9 powers has been the biggest barrier to taking T9 powers. 

You could go further than just low value added and say negative value picks as there are a few that are just delayed suicide buttons. 

[kelika2]

Necromancy > Zombie Horde still has a rather lengthy cast time.

[VashNKnives]

My limited experience using RoP reactively makes me want an Absorb or small Heal added to it since mez drops toggles that may be needed for survival (thinking of debuffs) and you need time to re-anchor. I realize that other ATs can just layer good pool powers on already good survival but at some point focus on defense impacts potential dps.

 

I am currently taking it slow leveling this Rad/DP/soul Defender doing arcs I don't usually do. However, at 35 with RoP fully slotted I believe that this character will struggle more than most of my many other squishy characters without RoP if I try to use RoP instead of clarion and then if I do get clarion I would do better just using insp than keeping RoP. I wanted RoP because it is a thematic origin pool and was hoping it would allow more incarnate build choice but even with it at 90 sec I am considering a melee hybrid rotation just to keep other destiny choices on the table. 

 

I suppose that devs concern themselves with min/max mindsets and while I casually min/max I am not interested in breaking theme to solo AVs and GMs (not saying it is always necessary to break theme). When there was no Homecoming I played that other game where you can pick any power and I know that pool powers have to be kept in check. However the way origin pools are restricted to one in conjunction with the prerequisite in-pool picks there should be sufficient controls in place to allow tier-3 origin pool powers to shine and attract players.

Edited March 28, 2021 by VashNKnives

[Jacke]

Why do stealth powers lose ANY Defense when in combat?  I'd like an honest answer.  And saying it was always so isn't good enough.

 

If the player character can be seen by the mobs and gets aggro, I think the first attack has the full Defense because the PC is not flagged as having attacked, been attacked, or clicked an objective.  Unless somehow being attacked somehow flags the character before being hit or even the roll to hit, which is not what I think happens.

 

From that point on until all of those flags expire and go away, the Defense is affected.  Rarely untouched, usually halfed, now sometimes quartered or removed entirely.

 

If the player character can't be seen, then it's only by happenstance affected if the player is in an AoE and gets hits and then flagged as been attacked.

 

So, the vast majority of the time doing anything useful, the player is going to have the lower value of in-combat Defense.  Which makes the higher values of Defense out-of-combat effectively useless.

[Arcanum]

 

Build 3 - March 28th

 

Spoiler

Powers Changes

Power Animation & Rooting Update

• Power animation time and rooting time have been decoupled - meaning that powers now decide how long they should root the character for, not the animation
  • This greatly increases our flexibility in making adjustments to power timing, animations, and rooting, and also fixes various issues surrounding animation cancelling
• The following powers will now never root during their activation:
  • Ally-targeting abilities that do not hit enemies (eg: Healing Aura, but not Twilight Grasp)
  • Self-only abilities that do not hit enemies (eg: Build Up, but not Soul Drain)
• The following powers will still root during their activation (and will do so more reliably):
  • Any power that applies any kind of effect to enemies (this includes attacks as well as taunt and damage auras)
  • All powers that summon other entities
  • All interruptible powers (snipes/assassinations/etc) will now root for their uninterruptible window
• Weapon redraw should no longer cancel attack animations
• In addition, many powers with excessively long cast times have been sped up (listed below)

Mastermind Summons & Henchmen Buffs

• Mastermind Henchmen Summons have had their recharge times reduced:
  • T1 Henchmen: reduced from 60s to 5s (25s in PvP)
  • T2 Henchmen: reduced from 90s to 10s (35s in PvP)
  • T3 Henchmen: reduced from 120s to 15s (50s in PvP)
• These summon powers are no longer affected by recharge buffs or debuffs
• Mastermind Henchmen Summons have had their endurance costs reduced:
  • T1 Henchmen: reduced from 19.5 end to 5.46 end
  • T2 Henchmen: reduced from 19.5 end to 9.62 end
  • T3 Henchmen: reduced from 19.5 end to 13.18 end
• Henchmen upgrade end costs have been reduced from 22.75 to 11.375
• Note: This were some quick low hanging changes to help Masterminds out a bit, we are currently investigating further improvements to Masterminds for the future

Demon Summoning

•  Summon Demonlings
  • Cast time reduced from 4s to 2s
•  Summon Demons
  • Cast time reduced from 4s to 2s
•  Hell on Earth
  • Cast time reduced from 4.03s to 2.03s
•  Summon Demon Prince
  • Cast time reduced from 4s to 2s

Assault Rifle & Mercenaries

•  Ignite (All Versions)
  • Cast Time reduced from 4s to 2s
•  Full Auto (All Versions, including Henchmen)
  • Cast Time reduced from 4s (or 6s) to 2.5s (Mercenary Commando actually took a whopping 6s before!)

Stone Armor

•  Rooted
  • No longer applies any movement debuffs to the caster
  • No longer suppresses travel powers
  • VFX has been toned down slightly as it no longer represents you being glued to the ground
•  Granite Armor
  • This power now disables all Flying, Running and Jumping toggle powers

Ninjitsu

•  Scrapper > Shinobi-Iri
  • This power no longer grants movement buffs (as they would be absorbed into the new stacking mechanics)
    • This power no longer accepts Jump, Run and Universal Travel enhancements
    • The buff has been toned down and moved to Kuji-In Rin
  • Stealth crit mechanic has been significantly improved
    • Now kicks in after 8s of no combat, rather than 20s
      • This allows the bonus to be used every encounter without requiring you to stop for 20s
    • Stealth crit chance for single target attacks is now 65%
    • Stealth crit chance for AoE attacks is now 30%
  • Power icon updated
•  Sentinel > Shinobi-Iri
  • This power no longer grants movement buffs (as they would be absorbed into the new stacking mechanics)
    • This power no longer accepts Jump, Run and Universal Travel enhancements
    • The buff has been toned down and moved to Kuji-In Rin
  • Stealth damage buff has been doubled from +20% to +40%
  • Power icon updated
•  Scrapper | Sentinel | Stalker > Kuji-In Rin
  • This power now grants a small run speed and jumping buff (and as a click power, this will stack with all other movement buffs)
    • This power now accepts Jump, Run and Universal Travel enhancements
  • This power now accepts damage resistance sets (which will improve the psionic resistance component)

Dual Pistols

•  Hail of Bullets (All Versions)

  • Cast time reduced from 4.17s to 2.47s

  • Adjusted Hail of Bullets animation

• The text description for Dual Pistols powers have been updated for readability, if no issues are found with these descriptions, other powers will follow similar formatting

Other Powers Changes

•   Snipe Powers
  • Fast (in-combat) snipes have had their ranges normalized to 80ft (and 100ft for Psi)
    • Slow snipes are unaffected and retain their increased range
  • Scrapper & Stalker epic snipes only: Internal cooldown reduced from 24s to 12s
    • The internal cooldown is only used for PPM calculations, the actual power cooldown is still 24s
•  Phase Powers
  • No Phase suppression window for all powers (PvE and PvP) has been reduced from 2 minutes to 90 seconds
•  Inherent > Rest
  • No longer has a recharge, making it easier to use at low levels
  • No longer accepts recharge reduction enhancements
  • It should now be a bit harder to accidentally move and interrupt Rest before it begins properly
  • Can now be activated in the air, but you will fall to the ground once Rest is fully active
  • Fixed a bug where sometimes the player could walk and become untouchable
•  Hibernate (All Versions)
  • This power no longer de-toggles flight powers, but will still suppress flight
•  Sorcery > Rune of Protection
  • Duration reduced from 90s to 60s
  • This power now grants damage resistance even if you use it whilst mezzed (previously only the mez resistance component would be granted)
•  Sentinel > Mace Mastery > Focused Accuracy Coordinated Targeting
  • Unlike other versions of Focused Accuracy, this power is a team buff
  • To distinguish it from other versions of Focused Accuracy, it has been renamed to Coordinated Targeting and now has a new icon

•  Electrical Blast > Thunderous Blast (All Versions)

  • Cast Time reduced from 3.7s to 2.93s

•  Radiation Emission > Choking Cloud

  • Cast Time reduced from 3.47s to 1s

•  Darkness Manipulation | Dark Armor > Death Shroud (All Versions)

  • Cast Time reduced from 3.47s to 2.47s

•  Ice Manipulation | Ice Melee > Ice Patch (All Versions)

  • Cast Time reduced from 3.47s to 1.57s

•  Beast Mastery > Summon Dire Wolf

  • Cast Time reduced from 4.67s to 2s

•  Sentinel > Bio Armor > Athletic Regulation

  • The stance benefits of this power have been modified

    • Note that this power always provides +Run / +Fly speed and -Defence resistance, only the stance bonuses have been changed

  • Defensive:

    • Before: 65% Resistance(-Run/-Fly)

    • Now: 40% Resistance (-Run/-Fly) (reduces the strength of speed debuffs)

  • Offensive:

    • Before: +227.5% Run Strength / +88.7% Fly Strength

    • Now: +14mph Run Speed / +?mph Fly Speed (a flat increase to movement speed in and out of combat)

      • Fixed missing Fly Speed buff

  • Efficient:

    • Before: +113.75% Run Strength / +44.36% Fly Strength / 32.5% Resistance (-Run/-Fly)

    • Now: +33% Run / Fly Speed Strength (increases the strength of all your travel powers - essentially a free SO in every run / fly power)

•  Jump Pack +  Steam Jump +  Double Jump
  • Improved the reliability of the mutual exclusivity mechanics for these powers

•  Gravity Control > Singularity

  • Singularity will now slowly pull enemies towards it, allowing it to make much greater use of the Repel effect

•  Temporary & Prestige Costumes (aka Halloween Costumes)
  • These costumes are no longer mutually exclusive with stealth powers (they never provided stealth)
•  Trick Arrow > Disruption Arrow
  • The visual FX for this power has been changed to alleviate headaches being induced by the old VFX
    • Further adjustments to this VFX have been made, please test for any health related effects if you have experienced them with previous versions
  • Due to the health implications of the old VFX, this is not an optional change
• Freedom Corps > Nullifier > Sonic Grenade
  • The visual FX for this power has been changed to alleviate headaches being induced by the old VFX

 

[ScarySai]

 Gravity Control > Singularity

• Singularity will now slowly pull enemies towards it, allowing it to make much greater use of the Repel effect

You maniacs made the strongest pet even stronger. I approve.

 

You can't buy me off from criticizing the rune change that easily though, Powerhouse! *shakes fist*