Please revert the Rage change.

[Moka]

I'm just here to add a generic reply in support of unfixing the rage crash.

[RubberDougie]

On 5/30/2019 at 4:44 PM, riellefrost said:

Just adding my two cents here... an unresistable -20% def is harsh, and would be on any toon, but esp when you are the team's meat shield. I think it should go. Not really concerned about the end and other stuff, just the def.

Eat some candy right before you crash?  :thinking:

[esotericist]

On 9/1/2019 at 1:08 PM, macskull said:

Rage is the set-defining power for SS (Footstomp notwithstanding). Is it really SS if it doesn't have Rage?

I've had that problem with proliferation of powersets in the past.

 

As an example, for me the Forms toggles were the set-defining power for Staff Fighting, and that got tossed for the Stalker version. (and in general Stalker versions of sets tend to jettison powers I consider Highly Interesting in favor of the AT-specific powers that I find Generally Uninteresting. That they're "necessary" for stalkers has always struck me as an error of design).

 

Having that happen with super strength would be unfortunate, but for good or ill there's ... well, quite a lot of precedent.

[DR_Mechano]

I still vote Crashless but no stacking. However if SS got its numbers bumped up so it didn't NEED Rage to actually be a viable set that would be kind of good too, up the damage numbers across the set, lower the rage buffs, remove the stacking and the crash.

[PirateCrew]

The "crash if you stack Rage, but no crash otherwise" solution would be fine for me.

[TheAdjustor]

On 8/31/2019 at 12:36 AM, Kimuji said:

I don't find it very fair/balanced to have absolutely zero crash for a single Rage and a big one for stacked Rages. Let's not forget that rage gives a +20% To Hit on top of damage, it's not a minor detail. No other set gets such an important permanent accuracy buff, a simple instance of Rage running is already a significant bonus that can't hardly be given for free. So I still believe that a small crash ( -dmg and maybe -end) for 1 rage and the big current crash for 2 rages is still the most balanced option. And let's not forget that 2 rages means 2 crashes, it can't be none at all for 1 rage. Only one small crash every 2 minutes for 1 rage  compared to one big crash every minute for stacked rages seems like a pretty good deal.
 

And I don't like the idea of giving Super Strength to scrappers (or stalkers). SS is an iconic Tankers and Brutes powerset, it's the epitome of the big guy's powers. Its proliferation would only weaken the flavor and difference between ATs.

And this is not bad for a set allegedly 'unfun' and broken set:

It's thematic not performance related. Want to bet how many also took invulnerability, flight and laser eyes ?

[Megajoule]

On 9/1/2019 at 1:08 PM, macskull said:

Rage is the set-defining power for SS (Footstomp notwithstanding). Is it really SS if it doesn't have Rage?

I've never been a fan of it, myself, nor of having the rest of the set balanced around it.  Thematically speaking, the Hulk has his roaring, eye and vein popping, chest beating rampages, sure; but does Superman? J'onn J'onzz? Captain Marvel (either of them)? Rogue?

 

Heck, if we were starting from scratch, I'd probably make it the Brute inherent power.

 

(Also, I'd put KO Blow up there with Foot Stomp for "defining", even ahead of.)

Edited September 3, 2019 by Megajoule

[Vanden]

8 minutes ago, Megajoule said:

I've never been a fan of it, myself, nor of having the rest of the set balanced around it.  Thematically speaking, the Hulk has his roaring, eye and vein popping, chest beating rampages, sure; but does Superman? J'onn J'onzz? Captain Marvel (either of them)? Rogue?

 

Heck, if we were starting from scratch, I'd probably make it the Brute inherent power.

This is why it should’ve been named Might. Plus, then the Brute inherent could’ve been called Rage, like it’s called in the code.

[Haijinx]

Your character doesn't growl and act angry during rages though.   Just glows a little bit.  

 

The animations for tough or Savage melees build up are more angry than rage is.

 

There's no reason you have to assume your character is actually angry.  Its just a name.  

 

Just like footstomp is often a ground punch.

 

[Galaxy Brain]

Same with how you see so many claw/regens lol

[Captain Powerhouse]

1 hour ago, Haijinx said:

Just glows a little bit.

"a little bit" 😏

[Steampunkette]

On 9/1/2019 at 1:43 PM, Captain Powerhouse said:

This is a tangent but sooner or later SS will be ported to Scrappers, it wont be a carbon copy though, for a couple reasons.

 

First, as it was noted, tanker sets were originally meant to hit slower and harder (at least relative to other powers for their AT.) For the most part, this means they get powers like Seismic Smash, Total Focus and Knockout Blow.

 

Scrappers have over the years received a few similar powers with Kin Melee's Concentrated Strike and Street Justice Crushing Uppercut, but both these powers are actually suffering big penalties on the Scrapper side. Street Justice only crits for the base damage (that is way bellow what the recharge dictates unless you have a high combo level) and Concentrated Strike's "crit" simply means "auto-recharge."

 

So, any port of Super Str (or Energy or Stone) will either have slightly lower recharge versions of these powers that do somewhat less scale damage (due to modifiers they will still do more damage than the tanker versions) or their critcals will be a special trick instead of damage.

 

The other issue is Rage, scrapper damage buff modifiers are much higher than tankers or brutes, and rage, even with one stack, would be extremely strong. So it's likely that they would not get Rage as is, or at all.

Rage for Scrappers: Toggle which grants a small constant damage and accuracy buff, but adds an increased Crit Chance to all Superstrength Attacks.

[macskull]

1 hour ago, Steampunkette said:

Rage for Scrappers: Toggle which grants a small constant damage and accuracy buff, but adds an increased Crit Chance to all Superstrength Attacks.

That sounds like something I could get behind (but +tohit not +acc).

[Vindicator]

12 minutes ago, macskull said:

That sounds like something I could get behind (but +tohit not +acc).

Agreed.

[Haijinx]

If, when stacking, the to hit did not also stack, that might help this some.

[Myrmidon]

On 9/3/2019 at 10:43 AM, TheAdjustor said:

It's thematic not performance related. Want to bet how many also took invulnerability, flight and laser eyes ?

 

[Neogumbercules]

On 5/31/2019 at 10:41 AM, Number Six said:

 

I think straight up removing it would have to come with some other downside. The thing we want to avoid is it becoming a "just set it on auto and forget about it" power, as that runs counter to the intent of both the original design and Castle's redesign of it.

 

Even removing the damage penalty (due to the mentioned smashing resist issues) isn't out of the question if we can come up with some kind of alternative mechanic.

Keep the -def and add:

 

Any attacks that land on you when you are debuffed during the crash reduces the duration of the crash by 0.3 seconds. When you break free from the crash you are granted an absorb shield equal to 1% of your max health for each full second that was reduced by enemy hits that lasts for 10 seconds.

 

This way, if you do take a pounding during the crash, you're able to break out with a boost to your survivability to get back up on your feet. It fits thematically because you are being enraged by enemy attacks during your downtime. 

[Haijinx]

Rage Zombies are here. 

[Neogumbercules]

This thread was linked elsewhere and I saw Six's post and felt like throwing it out there. 

[Xanatos]

Whoever added -def to the rage crash clearly didn't consider how it would play with the volume of -def debuffs in the endgame, or incarnate enemies having higher +tohit. (This is why the devs never added the -def to the crash - they knew it wouldn't play nice with the new game content.)

 

What a terrible tweak. Super Strength is much less viable partner for defense-based armours than it was on live.

 

Why make the homecoming emulator worse than the live game? lol

Edited July 30, 2020 by Xanatos

[Black Zot]

12 hours ago, Haijinx said:

Rage Zombies are here. 

 

This being an old thread doesn't change the fact that it's a stupid nerf that needs to be undone.

[Haijinx]

The def crash existed on live

 

It just got overwrote by raging again.

 

So you never saw it unless slowed, or unenhanced, etc. 

[Galaxy Brain]

12 minutes ago, Haijinx said:

The def crash existed on live

 

It just got overwrote by raging again.

 

So you never saw it unless slowed, or unenhanced, etc. 

This.

 

It was not nerfed by intention, it was actually not working as intended and has been fixed.

 

The "correct" way its supposed to work tho is questionable

[Haijinx]

1 hour ago, Galaxy Brain said:

This.

 

It was not nerfed by intention, it was actually not working as intended and has been fixed.

 

The "correct" way its supposed to work tho is questionable

Well more like what it "should" be maybe.

 

Since it currently is what its "supposed" to be.

 

They proposed splitting the def and adding resist debuff and it was killed by naysayers though.

Edited July 30, 2020 by Haijinx

[Neogumbercules]

I was just thinking if they are open to the idea of changing the crash if someone comes up with a different mechanic I figured heck, may as well come up with something. 

 

My idea isn't perfect but it at least adds something that's more than just having to wait for it to be over. You might WANT to dive into that next group of enemies now so you do get attacked and have the duration shortened.

 

Defense based characters will still have around 25% defense assuming they're soft-capped so they won't get hit as much even during the crash, which is a similar offset of a resistance based character basically taking every hit. It would average out to a resistance character taking more damage during the crash but having a shorter crash and a bigger absorb shield, where as the defense based character will take less damage because they still have some defense, but a longer crash and a smaller shield when they come out of it with their 95% dodge capability. If they are unlucky or not soft-capped their crash will be very short, and if they survive they'll come out of the crash with a big absorb shield, to help them survive the battle against any lucky hits that penetrate their post-crash restored defense. 

 

You're still vulnerable during the crash and can be defeated, but if you play it right you'll come out stronger and have a chance to heal up or just not die while that absorb shield is up.