We need a Hero Patron Power Pool

[stevencoe77]

This is one of those thing that been bothering me for a very long time. Why is the villain have patron power pool and the epic don't have none.  The epic at time are nice but when villain have more choices on a lvl 35 scale of power pool compare to the hero side of thing. There should be equal balance in the game on that. Why is the fact that villain patron power pool is more use in majority of people build on hero and villain side. This have been one of those thing that I always found so messed up in game that heroes switch over to villain just to get those ability on that side and the heroes should have the same thing going on with them. I know the quest just for those awesome powerset in that patron power pool. Is it me or do you want to see the hero get a patron power pool.

[Zepp]

1 hour ago, stevencoe77 said:

This is one of those thing that been bothering me for a very long time. Why is the villain have patron power pool and the epic don't have none.  The epic at time are nice but when villain have more choices on a lvl 35 scale of power pool compare to the hero side of thing. There should be equal balance in the game on that. Why is the fact that villain patron power pool is more use in majority of people build on hero and villain side. This have been one of those thing that I always found so messed up in game that heroes switch over to villain just to get those ability on that side and the heroes should have the same thing going on with them. I know the quest just for those awesome powerset in that patron power pool. Is it me or do you want to see the hero get a patron power pool.

You can flip to Red to pick up the Villain Patron Pools and then flip back to Blue...

[Greycat]

38 minutes ago, Zepp said:

You can flip to Red to pick up the Villain Patron Pools and then flip back to Blue...

 

Which is kind of a tangent there, really - mostly annoying to some RPers. Sounds like the OP knows it already.

 

Though, I suppose, the argument could be made "it's at least one thing red side has to draw people over to play, even if only for a little bit." (typically one mission, though.)

 

Regardless - yeah, this has been suggested since live. Not really against it, though I don't know if heroside (flavor-wise) would have individual "patrons," per se. I could see them being linked to organizations, though.

 

Hmm.

 

We have MAGI, DATA, etc. already (though that puts us at one over, hero-side, and do we want them tied indirectly to origin like that?) Getting some "grey" pools wouldn't be bad, either - Midnighters, Vanguard, possibly the New Praetorians and Hammers? Granted, most would probably just be different crayons in the same lines, but "grey" pools would also give redsiders (and vig/rogue) a chance to pick something not tied to Arachnos, which would be worthwhile.

 

 

Edit: Also, should probably be in Suggestions.

Edited June 21, 2021 by Greycat

[Alchemystic]

Hero Patron Pools have been discussed in the past, they were even one of the HC Weekly Discussions back when those were a regular thing, so it's definitely something that's on HC's radar.

 

I'd love to see some HPPs, but the question is who are the best candidates for the role? Freedom Phalanx? Vindicators? The New Praetorians?

 

I suppose any could work really, but regardless of what group is picked, they would likely outnumber the villain patrons. Do we stick to just 4 heroes, or do we also expand on the villain side of things to compensate?

[Alchemystic]

4 hours ago, Greycat said:

Regardless - yeah, this has been suggested since live. Not really against it, though I don't know if heroside (flavor-wise) would have individual "patrons," per se. I could see them being linked to organizations, though.

 

Hmm.

 

We have MAGI, DATA, etc. already (though that puts us at one over, hero-side, and do we want them tied indirectly to origin like that?)

 

The FBSA might not be a bad call, actually.

 

It's a different direction to how villain Patrons work, but there's a lot of potential there. It'd be a tidy way of implementing Hero Patrons in a way that doesnt result in multiple instances of existing characters (Ms Liberty and Penny Yin have two instances already). 

 

It'd be nice to return to the FBSA after humble beginnings in City Hall, and would mean a little more spotlight on the five branches that operate under them for a change. We could even put these five new patron contacts in the vacant room in the Statesman Plaza building in Kallisti Wharf, remodel it to be a new FBSA headquarters.

 

As for the issues with origins? I wouldn't want to lock players out of what arcs or pools they can choose, so maybe just a change to dialogue depending on origin might be all we need. Though, as you said, that makes five new hero patrons compared to the four villains have currently. Perhaps including Red Widow as a new Patron could work? She's technically an Arachnos lieutenant now, right? Not like she's doing much right now anyway, so a new Patron arc/pool could flesh her out more, potentially as a traditional Widow-based pool to counter Black Scorpion's Soldier-based pool.

 

 

Edited June 21, 2021 by Tyrannical

[merrypessimist]

A different question is "what mechanical role would hero patron-equivalents offer that aren't already supplied by either the existing EPP or PPP pools?"  

 

Simply put, what mechanical niche would hero patrons fill?

[Alchemystic]

14 minutes ago, merrypessimist said:

Simply put, what mechanical niche would hero patrons fill?

 

At present, the villain patron pools mostly seem to provide energy or negative damage, with a teeny bit of lethal and toxic. Having hero patron pools that cover other damage types would be nice.

[Snarky]

I think a Positron pool for AoE attacks.  A lot of energy.  All Ball attacks.  Positron's Balls.  Every Hero will want them.

[InvaderStych]

1 hour ago, Tyrannical said:

As for the issues with origins? I wouldn't want to lock players out of what arcs or pools they can choose, so maybe just a change to dialogue depending on origin might be all we need. Though, as you said, that makes five new hero patrons compared to the four villains have currently. Perhaps including Red Widow as a new Patron could work? She's technically an Arachnos lieutenant now, right? Not like she's doing much right now anyway, so a new Patron arc/pool could flesh her out more, potentially as a traditional Widow-based pool to counter Black Scorpion's Soldier-based pool.

 

Or ..... (Dark Astoria Spoilers Within)

 

 

At the end of Mu'Vorkan's Personal Story it is revealed that Scirocco won't return to G-Ville as ordered and Recluse agrees that if Vorkan can eliminate those ahead of him (Magus D, Scriocco, Ice Mistral) and find him a second in command he take Scirocco's old seat.  Might be something there for creating a new Patron Pool if he were to succeed or even (perhaps especially since we already have Mu as a PPP) if he were to fail at the hands of the Red Widow ....  Scirocco gets shunted into hiding, RW goes into the meeting room, and the Pool choices remain the same with 1 additional new pool available?

 

Alternatively, perhaps he recruits her as a second for his power play and either she's the true power and he's the figurehead, or she takes the moment to seize power for herself.  I don't really know Red Widow's story or characterization.

 

The new "Patron Unlock Arc" could be part of this story or a series of events where the new Patron must defend their seat or justify it to the other 3?

 

Just a thought. 🍻

Edited June 21, 2021 by InvaderStych

[TraumaTrain]

2 hours ago, Snarky said:

I think a Positron pool for AoE attacks.  A lot of energy.  All Ball attacks.  Positron's Balls.  Every Hero will want them.

 

"Positron's balls!" just became my new exclamation.

 

 

Edited June 21, 2021 by TraumaTrain

[JasperStone]

What is the mission where we play as Statesman/Cole?

The powers bar switches to his power set.

 

I have always thought that could be an option as a Hero pool option. We are temporarily imbued with a Heros powers. Unslotted-able and a long recharge.

 

[stevencoe77]

13 hours ago, Zepp said:

You can flip to Red to pick up the Villain Patron Pools and then flip back to Blue...

I know we can do that but I really think the heroes need their own patron power pool of its own because the heroes side of that have its own identity

[Zepp]

2 hours ago, stevencoe77 said:

I know we can do that but I really think the heroes need their own patron power pool of its own because the heroes side of that have its own identity

I agree, I was just saying that in response to your comment about "villains have more choices", which they don't. Sorry, I should have been more clear.

[Hew]

3 hours ago, stevencoe77 said:

I know we can do that but I really think the heroes need their own patron power pool of its own because the heroes side of that have its own identity

You mean, so the ONE THING people go redside that people seem to care about at large is... Patron Pools... for 1 mish, or (gasp) 1 abrievated, frequently run at 0/-1 with autocompletes arc?

Yeah, lets find more (wait, there are no more... really) things that the _general_ population gives a crap about redside, and kill that too.

[GM Impervium]

Moved this to the suggestion forums, where it more likely belongs 😃

[OmnibusOmnh]

Yes this a great opportunity, perhaps I should create a power set proposal for hero Patron powers, perhaps I will redub them as Phalanx Powers... 

[Naraka]

45 minutes ago, Hew said:

You mean, so the ONE THING people go redside that people seem to care about at large is... Patron Pools... for 1 mish, or (gasp) 1 abrievated, frequently run at 0/-1 with autocompletes arc?

Yeah, lets find more (wait, there are no more... really) things that the _general_ population gives a crap about redside, and kill that too.

To double-reverse UNO your argument:  so one of the things people complain about redside, being a lowly lackey to a big boss that follows orders, yeah, let's proliferate that to blueside and then hypocritically herald it as the greatest form of story telling and inclusion.

 

That being said, I wouldn't be against adding more lvl 36+ pools and unlock them through various content but you'd need to be more creative than just copying villain patron pools.  Also, don't just plop then in a neutral piece of content, make it require being a villain or hero or rogue or vigilante.

[arcane]

I would be in favor of this. 4 Freedom Phalanx seems to make the most sense as a mirror to the villain patrons. 

[OmnibusOmnh]

2 minutes ago, arcane said:

I would be in favor of this. 4 Freedom Phalanx seems to make the most sense as a mirror to the villain patrons. 

On it then 

[UltraAlt]

20 hours ago, stevencoe77 said:

Why is the fact that villain patron power pool is more use in majority of people build on hero and villain side.

 

quote your sources please to verify this data

 

20 hours ago, stevencoe77 said:

Is it me or do you want to see the hero get a patron power pool.

 

Not sure what you are asking for here.

Do you want an additional set of iconic hero powers pools added in addition to the (hero) epic power pools?

 

There may be a difference in the patron pools. I really don't crunch numbers to see or prove any imbalance. 

If there is an imbalance, was that imbalance unintentional, related to the power levels of villian power sets, or intentional as a lure to get people to play villain characters?

I don't know the answers to that.

 

That being said, I don't think we need a "hero" patron power pool.

If the there is a significant imbalance then perhaps the Epic power pools need to be adjusted to a level that they are on par with the Villain power pools, but I'm seeing the need to do that.

[stevencoe77]

2 minutes ago, UltraAlt said:

 

quote your sources please to verify this data

 

 

Not sure what you are asking for here.

Do you want an additional set of iconic hero powers pools added in addition to the (hero) epic power pools?

 

There may be a difference in the patron pools. I really don't crunch numbers to see or prove any imbalance. 

If there is an imbalance, was that imbalance unintentional, related to the power levels of villian power sets, or intentional as a lure to get people to play villain characters?

I don't know the answers to that.

 

That being said, I don't think we need a "hero" patron power pool.

If the there is a significant imbalance then perhaps the Epic power pools need to be adjusted to a level that they are on par with the Villain power pools, but I'm seeing the need to do that.

I been playing this game since live and since heroes can go over to villains and at level 35 the villains have more choice in the power pool they can get the epic set or go do quest/mission for the patron powers. It is called paying attention to every details of things. The community for a longtime want a hero version of patron powers and it is time for that to happen. There should be an equal balance to both side with it come to powerset in epic and also a hero version of patron abilities are good for the game also. 

[Haijinx]

As long as there is no Manticore patron pool.

 

I hate that guy. 

 

[Naraka]

19 minutes ago, stevencoe77 said:

I been playing this game since live and since heroes can go over to villains and at level 35 the villains have more choice in the power pool they can get the epic set or go do quest/mission for the patron powers. It is called paying attention to every details of things. The community for a longtime want a hero version of patron powers and it is time for that to happen. There should be an equal balance to both side with it come to powerset in epic and also a hero version of patron abilities are good for the game also. 

 

The problem is, there's already a bunch of overlap.  For example, Back Alley Brawler uses Invulnerability, SS and Energy Melee, all of which are available in normal epic pools.  Same for Statesman. Hmm, what about Citad- yep, same.  I guess you could make a "trick arrow" epic for Manticore or put empathy powers in Numia but you're hardcore pushing against blurring AT niches.

 

People are so caught up in "make things equal" and they lose all sense of creativity.  Lvl 35+ pools could be an opportunity to add pools that shine rather than being regular pools that have to be watered down and you could do that by creating new, more condensed powersets.  Throwing 5 powers that follow an AT-set's parameters while just being nudges to some NPC by filling it with a bunch of existing powers...is wasted potential and, IMO, effort, especially if a content arc would be tied to them.

[BrandX]

We don't need Hero Patrons.  More Epics wouldn't be bad, but they don't need to be Patrons.

[UltraAlt]

40 minutes ago, stevencoe77 said:

I been playing this game since live and since heroes can go over to villains and at level 35 the villains have more choice in the power pool they can get the epic set or go do quest/mission for the patron powers.

 

I started playing just before Episode 2 dropped. I don't see the length of time you have played the game having anything to do with this conversation.

Yeah, as soon as characters could change alignements, heroes have been switching to the villian side, villains to the hero side, and back-and-forth (especially with the help of Null the Gull making it easier to switch), so yeah, you can jump-the-fence and get either one you want as easy as a character that started on the other-side-of-the-fence.

Not sure about your point on that one either really.

 

43 minutes ago, stevencoe77 said:

The community for a longtime want a hero version of patron powers and it is time for that to happen

 

Some people may have wanted this.

By saying "the community" you imply everyone.

I was never for or against this. I frankly never cared about it.

 

45 minutes ago, stevencoe77 said:

There should be ....

 

You already said you wanted this, so there is no reason to repeat that you are for it unless you are trying to use [mesmerize] on someone ... well I guess you are trying to affect the Community so maybe [mass hypnosis].

Luckly, I have friends that try to keep the [clear mind] going.