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Things that make it hard to want to log in


mechahamham

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- Everything being run at level 50+4.  I got bored of Incarnate content a long time ago. I really like the Dark Astoria arcs, but I could comfortably go the rest of my life without ever doing another Lamba, BAF, Keyes, or TPN trial. The level 45+ Taskforces are better, but they get really dull really quickly when no one specializes, everyone blasts through the content as rapidly as possible and no one plays as if they're part of a team. My attempts at running 'non-incarnate' TFs at 45 have been met with very little success. Saying  you're planning a 'no incarnates run' is met quite a bit of disdain, with players who DO join the team actively 'forgetting' your requests. You can forcibly disable Incarnates by also disabling Ancillary/Patron powers or limiting to only AT powers, but this is a bit over the line where players simply avoid the team. Devs, you might consider dropping the min level on those 45+ TFs to 40. I don't know if that would be over or below that 'Absolutely not' line, but it'd be worth trying, IMO. I think I'd really enjoy a 'Level 40 club' type play group or SG, but that currently limits your TF selection by quite a bit.

 

- Players actively spreading knockback hatred. By this, I don't mean the players who ask their teams to use knockback in a team-friendly way. I mean people who spend time in general and help chat ranting about how awful players who choose energy or other KB-heavy sets are. I keep hearing this phrase: "Don't use knockback so your teams won't hate you," as a warning to newer players.  That's REALLY  painful to hear, since I've heard (and been subject to) that same phrasing 'Don't be x so people don't hate you' over and over again in my hateful part of the U.S.. south as anti-LGBT bigotry. I've heard this one more than once: 'Knockback on teams shouldn't be tolerated.' There are others. This kind of speech is crossing the line from saying 'I don't like this mechanic' to 'You're a bad person if you use or enjoy this game mechanic.' It's becoming more and more common, and knockback is not the only target any more. It's also starting to apply to players who use AOE immobilize powers. I apparently missed when that started, but it's something I've heard several times in the last month.

 

- Players who can't leave real life out of the game. I'm personally guilty of this. I try not to do it, but I slip up from time to time. When I realize what I'm doing, I silence myself. There are lots of folks who don't. Once they get triggered on their personal hot button, they cannot silence themselves. I've got a 'No general/help' tab that covers my 'global chat' tab that helps to filter this out when it starts polluting the shard-wide broadcast. Global chat channels can likewise be hidden, even if they're invite-only. It's a little bit more difficult to deal with when it happens in team-chat, which is happening more and more often. There's a cultural push that encourages people to be outraged all the time, and it splashes out into the game more and more often. I often find myself thinking, "If I try to start a fun conversation in this group, what am I going to do when it turns into the usual hatred or outrage?" Most recently, I was on a TF team for my favorite taskforce in the game when one of the people leading the team started spewing. Knockback hatred came up, as well as various RL subjects. I finished the TF and bowed out of the team, even though I'd planned to follow them to the next TF they were doing.

 

As certain real-life issues heat up, I find myself soloing, with almost all of my chat options filtered away. That gets old real quick.

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8 minutes ago, Glacier Peak said:

Is the topic title being asked rhetorically? It seems like this was a vent post, did you intend to have further discussion beyond what you said in the OP? 

 

There is a great deal of venting in my post. I do make few suggestions for changes that I wouldn't mind being discussed, such as dropping the minimum level on 45+ TFs to 40, but I'd also like to see if other people have issues apart from the ones I listed or if they have differing feelings about the problems I see.

 

I'd also love to hear about suggestions for dealing with the problems I mentioned in the OP.

 

Edited by mechahamham
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What I have read from that post is that it comes down to interacting with other players. I think I play on the opposite side of the spectrum. I don't run a lot of trials or end game content in teams. I just participated in a Hamidon raid earlier today that was really well organized and I had only enough time to play for one iteration of the raid instead multiple. I built a character to solo content so that if I don't have time to play, I'm not short changing any potential team mates. It lets me roll through content at my own pace, sometimes I read the clues and mission dialog, other times I am grinding away at Issue 1 content that hasn't seen any new polish. At the end of the day, I get out of the game what I enjoy about it. It's relaxing and satisfying as my hobby. That's enough for me, perhaps identifying areas of the game that you enjoy that don't require other players would help alleviate the problems you described. Or at least placate some instances occurring too frequently.

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Which server to you play on?

 

I'm positive there are plenty of other players out there who feel the same way about your first topic.  Its just a mater of hooking up with them.

Either through here, or a SG that you could start - or even in the LFG chat.  Your teams don't necessarily have to be 8 players to be enjoyable.

If I have an alt on the same sever as you, I'd happy join you.  Hit me up.

 

Topic 2 extends to archetype also.  It does get tiring hearing players spout out how bad they feel a sentinel/defender/brute/tank/corrupter/blaster/mm sucks, and how the game would be better off without them.  These types of people either don't want to see new players join up and enjoy the game, or they are so wrapped up in themselves that they feel their opinion is so important, it must be heard by all.

Personally, I just put them on ignore if they get on my nerves.  Most times nothing comes of it - but I form a lot of TF's, and I know of a few instances where someone couldn't join because I couldn't receive the message.  They'd be  hollering in broadcast or LFG, and I would be unaware until a teammate would speak up.  At which point a huge smile comes over my face, and the TF becomes that much more enjoyable. 

 

Topic 3 mostly takes place in general chat - remove that tab.  Most normal people do it upon immediately logging into a new alt.

The only people who don't are the types who like to spew garbage, or those who enjoy participating in garbage.   

Unfortunately there is not much you can do when it happens on a team, other than to speak up and ask it to stop.  If it doesnt, simply bow out with an explanation - or explain that you will be running the rest of the TF without chat enabled.

 

 

Edited by Ghost
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1) I can sympathize; even as a new player, it hasn't taken long for me to get annoyed at how quickly late-game characters feed villains through their well of furies-powered woodchippers. I can also sympathize with the difficulties in recruiting for no IO sets/incarnate powers teams. In fact, despite wanting more of a challenge, I personally would not join such a team, either (eliminating the build design complexity and greater number of powers to manage introduced by IO sets and Incarnate powers is a net loss of challenge for me).

 

My personal solution is to run at +4/x8 with enemies buffed, players debuffed. I'm also part of a channel that does TF's at +4/x8 enemies buffed only, but with a time limit and a rule that if you die, you have to leave the TF and get no merits! And you can also run undersized, i.e. set the difficulty to +4/x8 but recruit only 4 players. Players looking for a challenge actually do join these teams, and my most enjoyable task force experiences have all been run this way. If you are looking for content where you might actually have to use well-designed builds and most of your abilities to survive, this is probably the closest there is.

 

I can sympathize with not liking Incarnate trials because there are so few of them, so they quickly get repetitive. With that said, I personally think that the incarnate trials have a lot of positive aspects that improve game balance:

  • Higher softcap - 60% instead of 45%. (I would be delighted if this was extended to the rest of the game in a gradual fashion, such that the softcap increases from 45% at level 35, to 50% at level 45, to 60% at level 50, to match the gradual maturing of lategame player defenses.)
  • Lots and lots of irresistible and autohit damage to punish mistakes or careless play
  • Actual mechanics: moving enemies, killing/not killing specific targets, using temp powers and interactables, healing and dps checks, etc.

I just wish there were more of them to provide some variety, or failing that, that these elements could be propagated to other content in the game and incorporated in future content. But the chances of seeing a new TF or incarnate trial anytime soon don't seem high, so...

 

2) I personally haven't seen any of this; I do occasionally use knockback temp powers without anyone commenting on them - the P2W fragmentation grenade is nice for mopping up Clockwork gears if you have no low-level aoes on Synapse. Given how annoying poorly-used knockbacks and immobilize can be, I can definitely see why many people have strong feelings about them. Personally, I'm more concerned with other players using knockback and immobilize to reduce the effectiveness of my powers (which makes the game less fun for me), so if such a trend exists, I'm not bothered by it for now.

Edited by Miss Magical
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I usually run the 50+4 content once on each character and then never look back, although I'll do Hamidon just as habit several times.  I don't see this as a problem, either you can put together teams that want to play the way you want to play, or there isn't enough interest in those teams and there's nothing that can be done about it.  I too would love it if everyone wanted to play the game the way I want to play the game, but I realize that isn't going to happen, so I don't put a lot of energy into fretting about it. I personally like playing strict role teams in low level content at high difficulty with less than a full team (4 is the best team size!), but that only suits a small audience of people, so I just enjoy it when it happens and I find what fun I can in the other stuff in between.

 

For knockback, I've always been pro-knockback with the caveat that this only applies while not damaging other player's enjoyment of the game or hampering progress.  For the first time in at least a year this week I ran into a player with no regard for the team, knocking back huge swaths of enemies currently engaged in multiple AoE patches or attacks from the rest of the team. Just having that one bad experience has refreshed my memory of why I also empathize with players who have disdain for KB.  Five players quit the team before it disbanded due to not enough players to handle the mission. I maintain my position that KB isn't a bad thing, but I get the other side more acutely with just that refresher course on why. This is one of those two-sided issues that isn't really two sided; there are myriad shades in between that are more accurate depictions, but people only like to argue from the most extreme points rather than from a reasonable middle ground.

 

Players are real life people, so expect real life interactions from those real life people.  They aren't scenery in your video game, they're people.  I get that people can be frustrating, but that isn't the game's issue, that's just people. Anywhere you go you're going to find it, and anything on the internet enhances it into something more dramatic.

 

It's just like life, if you don't want to solo, you're going to have to put up with some stuff.

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3 hours ago, mechahamham said:

- Everything being run at level 50+4.

 

I run level 50+ content probably 1% of the time. I'm saying 1% because I have no idea what the fraction of a it would be but I would be shocked if it was less than 0.1% of the time.

 

4 hours ago, mechahamham said:

- Players actively spreading knockback hatred.

 

I haven't heard this for a very long time ... and it was only from one person.

 

If people don't understand that knocking someone down/back is stopping them from attacking until they get back up, they don't understand the game very well.

 

If you have knockback, just do what you should do with practically everything in life - "use it responsibly".

 

If someone is getting-your-goat/pushing-your-hot-buttons or if someone else is generally just going off, put them on ignore.

 

4 hours ago, mechahamham said:

Players who can't leave real life out of the game.

 

Just put them on ignore or leave the group if you feel you need to.

There are other people to game with. Find some cool ones to game with and try to hang out with them when they are on.

 

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If someone posts a reply quoting me and I don't reply, they are most probably on ignore.

Some of them even know that I have them on ignore.

But that won't stop some of them from bullying and harassing people, because some of them love to do it.

It is who they are. There is a group of them that have banded together to do it. They think that it is acceptable.

Ignore is a tool to improve your gaming experience. Don't feel bad about using it.

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Knockback.  You say you have noticed more disdain of KB recently.  This is perception.  Disdain of KB with all the symptoms you seem to have accurately reported goes back to live.  Probably back yo Beta testing but i was not there before around Good vs Evil edition 

 

Leaving life out of the game. Hmmm. Do you know  what Art is?  Being serious.  Something told to me in an Art class stuck with me. When someone looks at something (painting sculpture whatever) and it brings up thoughts or feelings then it is art. It communicated something through an object. This is based not just on the skill of the artist but more importantly on the life experiences and inner symbolic language of the perceiver.  When people “react” it is art. People react to MMORPGs.  There are as many ways to experience CoH as there are people who play it. They will indeed bring “real life” into it

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8 hours ago, mechahamham said:

- Everything being run at level 50+4. 

 

This is why I don't often play my characters once they hit 50.  That's when I go back to the character creator and start something new.  But then, I'm an incurable altaholic. 😉

 

8 hours ago, mechahamham said:

- Players actively spreading knockback hatred.

 

Some people are just idiots and you have to ignore them.  The same is true in life as it is in a game.

 

8 hours ago, mechahamham said:

- Players who can't leave real life out of the game.

 

See my response to the previous point.  I'm actually totally with you on this one; I come to the game to get away from real life, to relax and enjoy myself for a little while.  I don't need people dragging the controversies and stresses of RL back into this space of escapism.  As others have said, removing the General channel from your chat tabs helps.  Also, remember that if anyone is bringing up subjects that violate the CoC and refuse to stop, you can (and should) report the violation.  

 

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The following is considered prohibited content:

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    • This includes anything related to gambling, child pornography, terrorism, illegal controlled substances, and any real world criminal activity (yes, we know City of Villains exists)
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Im in the process of leveling a character with maximum knockback in mind.  Ill probably end up making some all knockback TFs.  I cant think of a better time then having all the mobs dangling from the scenery.

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9 hours ago, UltraAlt said:

I run level 50+ content probably 1% of the time. I'm saying 1% because I have no idea what the fraction of a it would be but I would be shocked if it was less than 0.1% of the time.

 

I actually misworded this.

Should have been - "I run level 50+ content probably 1% of the time. I'm saying 1% because I have no idea what the fraction of a it would be but I wouldn't be shocked if it was less than 0.1% of the time."

 

I'm guessing that I haven't even logged into a 50 to run a mission (no AE farms for me) since at least June, and it was probably farther back than that.

I think I have 2 50's out of my 100+ characters.

If someone posts a reply quoting me and I don't reply, they are most probably on ignore.

Some of them even know that I have them on ignore.

But that won't stop some of them from bullying and harassing people, because some of them love to do it.

It is who they are. There is a group of them that have banded together to do it. They think that it is acceptable.

Ignore is a tool to improve your gaming experience. Don't feel bad about using it.

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I don't play above level 34 and rarely play above the 20's. I only play in the 30's for Croatoa.

 

It is much harder to find lower level groups than level 50+4 groups, but they do exist.  And if you create one in the evenings you can usually fill it.

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I just can't stand the low-level game anymore... After this long, I'm so completely burned out on the blue-side lowbie arcs in particular that I'd rather never build another alt than have to go through them again. Frostfire can HAVE the Hollows. Archanos can have Atlas Park. I don't care anymore. I haven't quite hit that point of no return yet with red-side or gold-side lowbies, but it will eventually happen. I have no doubts about that. 

 

At the same time, our limited selection of iTrials and running with 50+ PI smash teams can also get really, really old after you've done it a few thousand times...

 

My solution has been to either exemplar with mid-level teams, or run higher level solo/duo or with a three or four member small-team instead of a full 8-member cyclone. Will that also eventually get old? Maybe. It's certainly possible. But for anyone who's looking for a "change of pace", I'd say give it a try. 

 

Worst case? It may be time to take a break from the game for awhile, just to recharge. There's no sin in wandering off for a bit to play around elsewhere or even (*gasp* *horror*) spend some time tinkering with an offline hobby.  

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1 hour ago, DreadShinobi said:

Sounds like rolling up a character on a different server may be in your best interest.

Yes, come roll a character on Reunion and Team with me at 4:30am EST during the week. If you think soloing is fun, it's the place of your dreams, except that I'll be loitering around somewhere, taking up space, trying to hide the tears of Perpetual Boredom, lol. I did get to team with @EmmySkyonce, which has been the Highlight of the last 2 years....

" When it's too tough for everyone else,

it's just right for me..."

( Unless it's Raining, or Cold, or Really Dirty

or there are Sappers, Man I hate those Guys...)

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16 hours ago, mechahamham said:

"Don't use knockback so your teams won't hate you," as a warning to newer players.

 

There are two sides to every story and in my experience there are both people who overreact to knockback AND knockback-users who accept precisely zero criticism, however constructive or politely phrased, that falls short of them using knockback whenever and however they want on a team.

 

A team is ideally more than just eight people soloing near each other, each doing whatever they want with no regard for how it affects the rest of the team.  It's a game and we should all be doing what we find fun, but if you join a team, consider that what you find fun could be affecting someone else's fun.   That doesn't mean you have to stop.  But it should mean you are willing to consider a compromise.  

 

If that's how you approach it already, then you're doing nothing wrong in my opinion.

 

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2 hours ago, Coyotedancer said:

My solution has been to either exemplar with mid-level teams, or run higher level solo/duo or with a three or four member small-team instead of a full 8-member cyclone. Will that also eventually get old? Maybe. It's certainly possible. But for anyone who's looking for a "change of pace", I'd say give it a try. 

 

This is where I'm at too most of the time.  I find the endgame stale due to power creep.  50+4 teams are often just a rolling mass of explosions that eats everything in its path with overbearing visual and sound effects.  Some people find that fun.  

 

It give me a headache.

 

But so does the 1-20 game.  Around level 25-30 things get better.  IO sets are more worth slotting but not yet overpowering.  If you exemplar to 30 you have access to every primary power and all but your T9 secondary.  You have pools and maybe one power from an epic/patron if you took it at 35.  But no Incarnates.   It's just plain more interesting not to have all the highest level powers and soft-cap-finishing abilities that render the endgame so bland for me.  I'll visit the endgame from time to time, but I live exemplared somewhere in the mid-levels whenever I can.

 

The game for me is more about joining random pick-up teams and seeing what can make them tick.  Each one can be different.  Again, in the mid-levels where it maybe still matters what AT and powersets you have on the team.  It's either that or trying to find interesting solo challenges to occupy me.  

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Only think I would add about Knockback is the surprising number of players I still run across who do not even know about the KB to KD IOs that are now available.

So I don't think it is out of line to at the least ask if they know about them.

 

That said, you can play however you want. But so can I. 

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16 hours ago, Ghost said:

Topic 3 mostly takes place in general chat - remove that tab.  Most normal people do it upon immediately logging into a new alt.

The only people who don't are the types who like to spew garbage, or those who enjoy participating in garbage.   

Unfortunately there is not much you can do when it happens on a team, other than to speak up and ask it to stop.  If it doesnt, simply bow out with an explanation - or explain that you will be running the rest of the TF without chat enabled.

 

 

Well, this is a rude assumption. I almost never participate in general chat discussions, especially if there is a lot of garbage talk going on, but I also don't remove general chat from my tabs. I find it easy enough to ignore what's going on it that chat, especially since I like to be doing TF's or something and the gen chat gets swallowed up by all the other stuff going on. To assume that anyone like me is a garbage person is just plain insulting - and Everlasting's general chat has not that commonly been so full of garbage I feel the need to immediately get rid of it as soon as I create a new alt.

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4 hours ago, TheZag said:

Im in the process of leveling a character with maximum knockback in mind.  Ill probably end up making some all knockback TFs.  I cant think of a better time then having all the mobs dangling from the scenery.

 

When I play a knockback heavy character set I tend to create two builds one for solo and one for team... at least if I plan to team at all, but I usually have set characters I always team with and set characters I mostly solo with... so it hasn't been an issue since arriving at Homecoming,

But yeah, maximum KB is hella fun.

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18 hours ago, mechahamham said:

 

 

- Players actively spreading knockback hatred. By this, I don't mean the players who ask their teams to use knockback in a team-friendly way. I mean people who spend time in general and help chat ranting about how awful players who choose energy or other KB-heavy sets are. I keep hearing this phrase: "Don't use knockback so your teams won't hate you," as a warning to newer players.  That's REALLY  painful to hear, since I've heard (and been subject to) that same phrasing 'Don't be x so people don't hate you' over and over again in my hateful part of the U.S.. south as anti-LGBT bigotry. I've heard this one more than once: 'Knockback on teams shouldn't be tolerated.' There are others. This kind of speech is crossing the line from saying 'I don't like this mechanic' to 'You're a bad person if you use or enjoy this game mechanic.' It's becoming more and more common, and knockback is not the only target any more. It's also starting to apply to players who use AOE immobilize powers. I apparently missed when that started, but it's something I've heard several times in the last month.

 

 

This segment is so relatable. I've started to realize I'm ace and am very likely on the autism spectrum somewhere, or some other branch of neurodivergent, and if I try to point out a bit that makes things uncomfortable for me or someone else I've been getting a lot of "well I don't see a problem so you're probably lying or being silly" type arguments. And people throw out "it's just a fictional game stop taking it so seriously. it's not real." etc.  (Related... Baldur's Gate 3 itself is shaping up to be quite fun, but the forums are hella toxic). 

 

Incidentally, apparently my friends realized I was ace long before I did... one of them points out that one of the first conversations I had with her included me saying "I'll probably have kids eventually because I'm supposed to but I'm not that interested" with a heavy amount of "what do you mean you're just now realizing?"

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25 minutes ago, TygerDarkstorm said:

and Everlasting's general chat has not that commonly been so full of garbage I feel the need to immediately get rid of it as soon as I create a new alt.

 

Yeah, it's not so bad, I usually leave it on too. Sometimes (most of the time) there are just some nice people having nice conversations about fun things related to the game or media that relates to the game, like I think the channel is meant for. Not sure about other servers but it seems pretty "fine" on Everlasting.

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1 hour ago, TygerDarkstorm said:

Well, this is a rude assumption. I almost never participate in general chat discussions, especially if there is a lot of garbage talk going on, but I also don't remove general chat from my tabs. I find it easy enough to ignore what's going on it that chat, especially since I like to be doing TF's or something and the gen chat gets swallowed up by all the other stuff going on. To assume that anyone like me is a garbage person is just plain insulting - and Everlasting's general chat has not that commonly been so full of garbage I feel the need to immediately get rid of it as soon as I create a new alt.

I stand corrected.

I Shouldn't have categorized everyone into those two groups.

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2 hours ago, TygerDarkstorm said:

Well, this is a rude assumption. 

 

Rude?  Perhaps.  Frequently accurate?  Definitely.

 

2 hours ago, TygerDarkstorm said:

To assume that anyone like me is a garbage person is just plain insulting 

 

That's not what was said.  "Enjoying spewing garbage" or "participating in garbage" does not equate to being a "garbage person."

 

2 hours ago, TygerDarkstorm said:

and Everlasting's general chat has not that commonly been so full of garbage I feel the need to immediately get rid of it as soon as I create a new alt.

 

As an Everlasting player, I strongly disagree.  Every time I make a new character and leave general chat on, I regret it before level 5.

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