Changes...

[Ukase]

So, with the new patch, things are likely to change. 

And, well, candidly, I don't like change. I know I'm not the only one. 

I only yesterday got an elec melee/bio scrapper to 50, and just now got enough shards (yes, I said Shards) to get him to +1. Ran the mort kal this morning, before the patch to get the notice, and an extra notice from the Flames of Prometheus conversion. 

Most of my characters get Agility alpha. But with elec melee, endurance is not a concern. The attack chain is just fine, so extra recharge isn't needed. But, when I looked to use my vet level emps for a Destiny...I got to thinking. 

Is there still a point to getting incarnate powers? They're disabled now in a lot of these new challenge runs - and well, Master runs are about the only content I team up for. So I have to ask myself, if the incarnate stuff isn't usable - what's the point? 

I'm certainly not likely to run any incarnate trials on a non-badge character. I'm absolutely bored with them. I've run them ad nauseum and just don't want to. 

So...that's where I'm at. Is there a point to getting incarnate powers if we can't use them in this challenging content? 

[tidge]

6 minutes ago, Ukase said:

Is there still a point to getting incarnate powers? They're disabled now in a lot of these new challenge runs - and well, Master runs are about the only content I team up for. So I have to ask myself, if the incarnate stuff isn't usable - what's the point?

 

What to say? I so rarely bother with seeking out incarnate powers and content anyway I don't think I can help you decide. My freshest level 50 has only done the first of the following items on my typical list:

1. Slot an Alpha T3, to get a level shift and cover some aspect of the character.
2. Slot a Lore pet (or T3), to help with some hard targets... (and get a level shift if I ever join Incarnate content)
3. Slot a Judgement to have an extra AoE
4. Slot a Destiny, usually for League Wide teleport, but also for the level shift

Honestly, I just shrug off the need to max out Incarnates. I can totally see going for a +3 level shift to 'farm' incarnate drops.

[SuperPlyx]

I suspect people will run the new challenges to get badges and then never again. But I could be wrong.

[InvaderStych]

14 minutes ago, Ukase said:

So...that's where I'm at. Is there a point to getting incarnate powers if we can't use them in this challenging content? 

 

FWIW; I'm looking more at alternate builds now using Hami/DSO/Boosted IOs for stuff that disables set bonuses, so it stands to reason those builds would be setup with no incarnates in mind.

 

Also FWIW: Settings like Malicious/Relentless still allow iPowers, and while they currently only apply to DASF, my understanding is that those options will become available for other content as well.

 

More to come, I suppose, but now more options.  Difficulty with/without iPowers; dealer's choice.  Seems like a win/win to me.

[Ukase]

6 minutes ago, SuperPlyx said:

I suspect people will run the new challenges to get badges and then never again. But I could be wrong.

If I go to the trouble - and I probably will, I will likely do what I can to get the badges and then never run it in that fashion again. I've looked at some of the new badges, and well, I don't think they'll be fun to get. By "fun", I mean carefree amusement. They'll be interesting, but not fun. It may be terribly frustrating having to rely on 7 other people to not die in order to get some of these badges. (not to mention worrying about my own character surviving.)

I had thought the GMs had gotten the message loud and clear that other people being defeated shouldn't cost team members a badge. Apparently not. 
I wonder if some of these will rival "Avoids the Green Stuff" on the annoyance scale. 

Any joy from new content is overshadowed by the requirement for teamwork. 

[Parabola]

5 minutes ago, Ukase said:

Any joy from new content is overshadowed by the requirement for teamwork. 

Teamwork in an mmo? How dare they!

[Greycat]

Sounds like that's a "you" thing.

 

I'm not saying that to be dismissive. I'm saying it more in the sense of it's limitations or preferences you have for yourself (not a bad thing, not liking content or being bored stiff with it isn't bad, it happens,) and so you're really going to be the only one to answer if it's worth it for you or not.

 

And yeah, I don't like "anyone on the team dies, the badge is lost" badges. I don't really badge myself, but I avoid master runs all together because the added bit of stress from that sucks the fun out of it for me. I can do everything right, and still get blindsided, get killed from a teammate's actions or just the RNG not liking me that particular hour and cost everyone the badge run? I'll skip it.

 

But for your initial question? For me it's still worth it. I enjoy *characters,* RP, and more, and I run content up and down the level ranges and in AE. I can't answer if it's worth it for you. Only you can.

[Ukase]

6 minutes ago, Greycat said:

Sounds like that's a "you" thing.

Quite sure you're right. 

 

[Ukase]

8 minutes ago, Parabola said:

Teamwork in an mmo? How dare they!

You guys keep calling it an MMO. I've stated this before - back in issue 3 when I got this game, I had no idea what the MMO letters stood for. And if I had known, I'd have likely not bought it. I continued to play in spite of it being an MMO, not because of it. But it's not an MMO anymore. There just isn't the player base to justify calling it that. It's a solo game with teaming optional. At least, that's the way I see it. 

I've never experienced any value added to teaming. If you team routinely, you can never really be sure if your next slot should be for more endurance recovery, or more recharge or more accuracy or damage - as you're getting all these buffs, so you're never quite sure what you're doing, and what's being done by way of buffs/debuffs. 
When you team routinely, you may find yourself choosing something like teleport target, which is suddenly a wasted power pick if you find yourself solo. It's just never made any sense to me to play with others - who all likely have mixed experiences with the game and different desires, different objectives, and different ideas of what's fun. 

On some occasions, I've enjoyed teaming with folks, and on others, I've quite detested it. I just don't see the appeal. Never have. That's not to say I won't do it, just that it's not my preference. I'll do it for the badges if I have to - but I'll likely try to solo it for the badge first. It's usually just faster and easier that way. 

 

[Parabola]

5 minutes ago, Ukase said:

You guys keep calling it an MMO. I've stated this before - back in issue 3 when I got this game, I had no idea what the MMO letters stood for. And if I had known, I'd have likely not bought it. I continued to play in spite of it being an MMO, not because of it. But it's not an MMO anymore. There just isn't the player base to justify calling it that. It's a solo game with teaming optional. At least, that's the way I see it. 

I've never experienced any value added to teaming. If you team routinely, you can never really be sure if your next slot should be for more endurance recovery, or more recharge or more accuracy or damage - as you're getting all these buffs, so you're never quite sure what you're doing, and what's being done by way of buffs/debuffs. 
When you team routinely, you may find yourself choosing something like teleport target, which is suddenly a wasted power pick if you find yourself solo. It's just never made any sense to me to play with others - who all likely have mixed experiences with the game and different desires, different objectives, and different ideas of what's fun. 

On some occasions, I've enjoyed teaming with folks, and on others, I've quite detested it. I just don't see the appeal. Never have. That's not to say I won't do it, just that it's not my preference. I'll do it for the badges if I have to - but I'll likely try to solo it for the badge first. It's usually just faster and easier that way. 

 

I get not being into teaming, that's your choice. But it doesn't change what sort of game this fundamentally is. There could be only a single person still playing and it would still be an mmo based on teaming because that is what it was written to be. I solo more than team but again that doesn't somehow change the kind of game it is. Complaining about teaming elements seems bizarre to me; it's an mmo. It just is.

[Ukase]

I never said my way of thinking was typical, lol. Bizarre fits! 

[Six-Six]

I'm in a different boat. I like change... not all of them unconditionally, but most of the time they're a step towards overall improvement, eventually. But I'm overwhelmed. So many changes, I don't know where to start.

Costume changes. I've been waiting for some of the newly released ones to update a few of my toons.

Power changes. I have a handful of enjoyable toons that I may have to re-roll (like elec blast) just to see how the dynamic or play style changes. Then there are the builds that have to be tinkered with and paid for with inf I don't have.
Enhancements. Have to try them, as some of them will be perfect for a few toons off the top of my head (Ice Mistral's Torment + travel IOs). That's more build tinkering sans mids, redistributing limited slots, for IOs I have to purchase with inf I don't have.
New powers and new concepts. I have over 100 toons, about half of them incarnate. Do I park my current toon and concede to my altitis?

All of these things floating in my brain, but all my brain does is sing Black Sabbath's song Changes.
 

[BurtHutt]

1 hour ago, Ukase said:

If I go to the trouble - and I probably will, I will likely do what I can to get the badges and then never run it in that fashion again. I've looked at some of the new badges, and well, I don't think they'll be fun to get. By "fun", I mean carefree amusement. They'll be interesting, but not fun. It may be terribly frustrating having to rely on 7 other people to not die in order to get some of these badges. (not to mention worrying about my own character surviving.)

I had thought the GMs had gotten the message loud and clear that other people being defeated shouldn't cost team members a badge. Apparently not. 
I wonder if some of these will rival "Avoids the Green Stuff" on the annoyance scale. 

Any joy from new content is overshadowed by the requirement for teamwork. 

I don't ever remember asking to or messaging the Devs about badges and relying on the others for them. Ever. This is an MMO. I come here to team. I expect some badges to rely on teamwork and teaming. I'm glad they do.

 

I rarely ever solo. I am glad we will have the option to up the difficulty and maybe strategize as a team. I really was growing tired of just auto-crushing the opponent.  I have a blaster that can solo so much content if I wanted to - not challenging.

 

The challenge is where a lot of the fun is and incarnate powers kinda removed that. Now we have a choice on how to proceed. Nicely done, Devs!

[Shenanigunner]

1 hour ago, Ukase said:

You guys keep calling it an MMO. I've stated this before - back in issue 3 when I got this game, I had no idea what the MMO letters stood for. And if I had known, I'd have likely not bought it. I continued to play in spite of it being an MMO, not because of it. But it's not an MMO anymore. There just isn't the player base to justify calling it that.

 

Well, that's like saying a Toyota isn't a "car" any more because the new model has slab sides, an inch more ground clearance and a vaguely trucky style. (But, of course, anyone who follows auto news knows that "cars" and "sedans" are dead-dead-dead, because they're all now SUVs. Or some kinda UVs.)

 

It's still massive (as few games have ever been), it's still multiplayer (even solos share the same air, most of the time) and it's very much online (only). No Semanticist badge for you. 🙂

 

About the only counter-argument is that perhaps too much play is in off-board AE farms etc., making the main part of the game less "multiplayer" than it was. But not everyone passes through to the AE building in every session, not by a long shot.

 

Edited November 26, 2021 by Shenanigunner

[Aurora_Girl]

2 hours ago, Ukase said:

So, with the new patch, things are likely to change. 

And, well, candidly, I don't like change. I know I'm not the only one. 

I only yesterday got an elec melee/bio scrapper to 50, and just now got enough shards (yes, I said Shards) to get him to +1. Ran the mort kal this morning, before the patch to get the notice, and an extra notice from the Flames of Prometheus conversion. 

Most of my characters get Agility alpha. But with elec melee, endurance is not a concern. The attack chain is just fine, so extra recharge isn't needed. But, when I looked to use my vet level emps for a Destiny...I got to thinking. 

Is there still a point to getting incarnate powers? They're disabled now in a lot of these new challenge runs - and well, Master runs are about the only content I team up for. So I have to ask myself, if the incarnate stuff isn't usable - what's the point? 

I'm certainly not likely to run any incarnate trials on a non-badge character. I'm absolutely bored with them. I've run them ad nauseum and just don't want to. 

So...that's where I'm at. Is there a point to getting incarnate powers if we can't use them in this challenging content? 

 

For *you* specifically? Seems not. 

[Aurora_Girl]

1 hour ago, Ukase said:

You guys keep calling it an MMO. I've stated this before - back in issue 3 when I got this game, I had no idea what the MMO letters stood for. And if I had known, I'd have likely not bought it. I continued to play in spite of it being an MMO, not because of it. But it's not an MMO anymore. There just isn't the player base to justify calling it that. It's a solo game with teaming optional. At least, that's the way I see it. 

I've never experienced any value added to teaming. If you team routinely, you can never really be sure if your next slot should be for more endurance recovery, or more recharge or more accuracy or damage - as you're getting all these buffs, so you're never quite sure what you're doing, and what's being done by way of buffs/debuffs. 
When you team routinely, you may find yourself choosing something like teleport target, which is suddenly a wasted power pick if you find yourself solo. It's just never made any sense to me to play with others - who all likely have mixed experiences with the game and different desires, different objectives, and different ideas of what's fun. 

On some occasions, I've enjoyed teaming with folks, and on others, I've quite detested it. I just don't see the appeal. Never have. That's not to say I won't do it, just that it's not my preference. I'll do it for the badges if I have to - but I'll likely try to solo it for the badge first. It's usually just faster and easier that way. 

 

 

I ask this in all seriousness, how do you relate to other people? Like, in real life. I don't drive blindfolded because other people haven't run into me...

[Peacemoon]

2 hours ago, Ukase said:

I only yesterday got an elec melee/bio scrapper to 50, and just now got enough shards (yes, I said Shards)

Just a question but why do you use shard? Threads are so much easier to get and can be used to craft Alpha slots too.

[Lazarillo]

2 hours ago, Parabola said:

Teamwork in an mmo? How dare they!

And yet, how many people don't RP in this RPG?

[Bionic_Flea]

[Dazl]

2 hours ago, Ukase said:

You guys keep calling it an MMO. I've stated this before - back in issue 3 when I got this game, I had no idea what the MMO letters stood for. And if I had known, I'd have likely not bought it. I continued to play in spite of it being an MMO, not because of it. But it's not an MMO anymore. There just isn't the player base to justify calling it that. It's a solo game with teaming optional. At least, that's the way I see it. 

I've never experienced any value added to teaming. If you team routinely, you can never really be sure if your next slot should be for more endurance recovery, or more recharge or more accuracy or damage - as you're getting all these buffs, so you're never quite sure what you're doing, and what's being done by way of buffs/debuffs. 
When you team routinely, you may find yourself choosing something like teleport target, which is suddenly a wasted power pick if you find yourself solo. It's just never made any sense to me to play with others - who all likely have mixed experiences with the game and different desires, different objectives, and different ideas of what's fun. 

On some occasions, I've enjoyed teaming with folks, and on others, I've quite detested it. I just don't see the appeal. Never have. That's not to say I won't do it, just that it's not my preference. I'll do it for the badges if I have to - but I'll likely try to solo it for the badge first. It's usually just faster and easier that way. 

 

People are teaming all the time, this is very much an MMO. It's also a solo friendly MMO, so it's not painful to solo like old school MMO's. I've played  a lot of MMO's and this is by far and away the best teaming experience I've had in any of them. With so many AT's and power combos, not two teams are ever the same. Sure some teams are better than others, but anything can work and it's fun just mixing up all those powers.

[Rishidian]

54 minutes ago, Shenanigunner said:

It's still massive (as few games have ever been), it's still multiplayer (even solos share the same air, most of the time) and it's very much online (only). No Semanticist badge for you. 🙂

This. ^^

It is what it is. Regardless of our opinions.

It's still Massive - Doesn't matter what the player base is

It's still Multiplayer - Doesn't matter how many are logged on

It's still Online - this one speaks for itself

[Snarky]

As with everything in life, unlife, and gaming… it depends.

 

If you will not use it the answer is obvious.  For you. 
 

While I know many hardcore gamers who want to do the hardest content in the most extreme way….. I also am quite familiar with PUG groups who just want to bumble through on easy mode.   We have a lot of both on the CoH fan base

 

personally I am more of a bumbler. Give me more powers (that I grind for) and then let me destroy the city.  Good times.  If you want to save the city using two sticks and a rubber band have fun Mcgyver 🤪

 

But I know you have found things that you enjoy, whether it be fine tuning a market strategy or completing a master run with an SO toon.  

 

I believe the expanded options (and badges/rewards) are a great step forward in a positive direction for the city

 

now, with all these Heroes so busy there surely must be a way to get control of the Hospital blood supply chain…
 

 

Edited November 27, 2021 by Snarky

[Without_Pause]

4 hours ago, Peacemoon said:

Just a question but why do you use shard? Threads are so much easier to get and can be used to craft Alpha slots too.

Because it is decidedly faster to get to T4s on everything if you use shards for the Alpha slot. I have two characters at the same vet level. One has 3 T3 and 3 T4s. The other has 5 T3s and 1 T4. I'm sure you can figure out which one uses shards.

[Snarky]

I am only 50ing rarely now.  But i play a lot.   So i just email the rare new 50 a few hundred emps.   Faster than shards by a little bit

[Yomo Kimyata]

When I get a character to 50, most of the time I will get them their alpha slot, just to check it out.  I have only one alt who is fully T4ed.  
 

For me, it’s only worth it if the incarnates make playing more enjoyable.  I’m not going to suffer with endurance issues from 1-50 to fix my endurance issues with incarnates because that’s just misery for 50 levels. So maybe I’ll figure out another path and respec later.   I’ve been mostly unimpressed with incarnates because for the most part they just gild the lily.  If my character is Andre the Giant fighting a class of kindergartners, incarnate powers are the equivalent of giving Andre a baseball bat to hurry things up.  Please note that I’m almost exclusively soloing (if I have 30 uninterrupted minutes to play, I don’t want to spend 20 of them making a team).

 

Just sharing my thoughts.  Yours may vary!