Heroes are murderers

[PeregrineFalcon]

2 minutes ago, The_Warpact said:

No, I just want the heroes to take a look in the mirror and realize the lie that is their life.

No lie in my life. I've always known that my fireballs don't have a stun setting.

 

Men get arrested. Skulls get put down!

[The_Warpact]

1 hour ago, Frostbiter said:

 

Rorschach? He's a mental case, like Batman. Neither one has any business deciding justice is theirs to mete out. Both need to be locked up with the people they resemble more than the law. 

But, based on what? You and societies standards or their version of justice. What about some countries that still execute on the smallest infractions according to their law.

Or what about in the past when "justice" was metted out which was usually death for minor things?

I think we are getting into perspective or opinions based on rules by whatever group of people control that area.

Face it justice, the court systems, mental health care all are a joke, the punishment should fit the crime.

[Frostbiter]

1 minute ago, The_Warpact said:

But, based on what? You and societies standards or their version of justice. What about some countries that still execute on the smallest infractions according to their law.

Or what about in the past when "justice" was metted out which was usually death for minor things?

I think we are getting into perspective or opinions based on rules by whatever group of people control that area.

Face it justice, the court systems, mental health care all are a joke, the punishment should fit the crime.

 

Societies. No other standard matters (one could argue religion as a thing but outside of a few places religious law is not common law so we'll stick to justice in this earthly realm). As long as a common framework exists then anyone operating outside it is a criminal, no matter their intent. As a whole that's all law is; a set of rules that allow society to function with a minimum of anarchy. Batman has probably done just as much harm as good. By placing himself above the law he  creates room alongside himself for others to do the same or worse.

 

I kind if feel like I'm taking us off track here.....

[Glacier Peak]

53 minutes ago, The_Warpact said:

Should have clarified which Batman, my bad. Definitely not that one or the Bale, Keaton, etc.

I'd say an argument could be made for the Arkham-series Batman killing people (or at least the player's can be certain some are killed). 

[Cancrusher]

4 hours ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

 

So the teleporters themselves are putting my enemies' intestines back into their bellies en route? Fascinating what humans have done with all that technology we helped them build. Too bad those porters can't erase the memories of my deeds from my victims' minds.

 

The only thing better than being evil is how innocent people cry out for heroes when you hurt them.  😄

[battlewraith]

2 hours ago, The_Warpact said:

But, based on what? You and societies standards or their version of justice. What about some countries that still execute on the smallest infractions according to their law.

Or what about in the past when "justice" was metted out which was usually death for minor things?

I think we are getting into perspective or opinions based on rules by whatever group of people control that area.

Face it justice, the court systems, mental health care all are a joke, the punishment should fit the crime.

 

Yes notions of justice are relative to different groups at different times and places. So what? Historical progress in these areas has occurred. You could make the same argument about medicine or architecture or anything else. Some group thinking that leeches will cure a disease doesn't mean that modern healthcare is a joke, even though we will likely have better treatments for various things in the future.

[Naraka]

Devil's Advocate here:

 

Why is it, when you've got your assault rifle in hand and you're on a team with 6 other costumed dispensers of violence and you start blasting, those other teammates never get touched by any of your bullets but the enemies are?

 

Taking that into account, I'd say there's some kind of super control/aiming going on that results in non-lethal outcomes. Exactly how? It will depend on the user of the gun but it somehow works out.

 

Contrary argument aside, I'd normally be right along with the OP calling heroes murderers lol

[MTeague]

Wait you mean the move labeled "Beheader", isn't just whacking them with the flat of the axeblade?  Who knew!?

 

But yea.

• Blueside main is Mind/Kin for this reason. He can defeat foes by giving them repeated Migraines until they collapse still clutching the side of their head.
• My Claws/SR scrapper? Definite Vigilante. Kills foes, no bones about it, no shame about it, considers herself flatly not answerable to any law except her own sense of what's right.
• Tanker?  Invuln/SS. Not hard to imagine easing up on some of the punches as foes are almost out of it. Or going all Hulk Smash if it's Crey. He don't like Crey. 
• Storm/Sonic Def?  Sonic could plausibly disable / render you unconscious. The lightning storm..... not so much. 
• Assault Rifle / Martial Kombat .... um, yea, she kills. No way around that. Headshot sniper. 1-2-3 SEE YA!!

[Albion]

7 hours ago, The_Warpact said:

In another thread I had made mention of a hero jokingly shooting a fireball in a thugs bum and being ported away.

Now I know the tech exists for heroes and villains (aka us) but, what about about no names villains, emergency services, and everyone else?

 

So I started researching more into it, via several wiki, Fandom, etc and besides heroes/villains/Preatorians and the sick and elderly of PC, no one else is offered this tech.

 

This was the whole point of the Roy Cooling arc, and why the cops went "rogue" because,  it wasn't being offered to the cops or citizens. 

They wanted to send the tech to a scientist in Europe who was going to replicate the tech for everyone. 

So when you "kill" and it is killing those thugs you're street sweeping or breaking up Malta plan to steal some tech you're no better than, well me and my fellow villains. 

 

So for the "heroes " out there, we'll you're not. Mass murderers the lot of you. Some of you probably knew (savages), alot of you probably don't know which shame on you, and some of you probably don't care (welcome to the dark side mofo).

 

Reminds me of Kingdom Come (DC graphic series) with the newer generation of "heroes" being no better than the villains. At least I don't lie to myself about what I am. 😉

 

 

https://hcwiki.cityofheroes.dev/wiki/Medi-Corp

 

https://archive.paragonwiki.com/wiki/Roy_Cooling

Suck it villain, while we deeply mourn any collateral damage we must carry on for a higher purpose, we are heralds and champions of the cause of justice, sacrifices are deplorable but sometimes necessary, we are as pious, righteous and merciful as the crusaders of the Fourth Crusade... wait...

[Luminara]

4 hours ago, The_Warpact said:

There are mentions for specific organizations with their own porters, and PPD uses it for mayhem events but, not day to day purse snatching.

 

3 hours ago, The_Warpact said:

In the links I provided, it says the PPD only porters villains in Mayhem events

 

It doesn't say "only".  That's assumption, not fact.  Your entire premise is based on assumptions like this.  Your first post began with a faulty assumption that

8 hours ago, The_Warpact said:

besides heroes/villains/Preatorians and the sick and elderly

no-one else had teleportation tech, and then followed up with a post containing a screenshot of the wiki which states that other groups have teleportation technology (disproving your assertion, in the manner known as "shooting oneself in the foot").  You assume that the super-powered bad guys we're arresting are frail, weak rabbits (whereas a nuclear explosion couldn't harm the average citizen of Paragon City, said average citizen also being capable of pushing a Granite + Rooted tanker around like an empty cardboard box).  You assume that any villain group not listed as having access to the MediCom system or their own teleportation system is up the creek without a paddle (but on the same page as that screenshot, it uses the phrase "such as" when listing groups with teleporters or MediCom hacks, which implies that there are others which aren't listed).

 

Oh, you also disregard that Cryptic made it very clear, from the first day, that our heroes weren't killing, they were defeating and arresting.  That we don't need to justify, rationalize or explain how we could shoot enemies with arrows and bullets, set them on fire, knock them halfway across the zone, et cetera and not kill them, the developers of the game stated that we weren't killing them.  It doesn't get more canon than that.

 

As trolls go, this one is about a 3/10.  It's too superficial and you're pushing the "if you don't agree with me, you're deluded/lying/an ARPEE monkey" spin too hard.  A really good troll needs to look innocent and earnest, and have at least 80% truth to it in order to be believable, so it's not painfully easy to unveil.  And we all know you're a sociable, likeable person, which blunts the edge even more.

[InvaderStych]

2 hours ago, The_Warpact said:

No, I just want the heroes to take a look in the mirror and realize the lie that is their life.

 

https://hcwiki.cityofheroes.dev/wiki/The_Chantry#Exploration_Badges

 

😉

 

 

[The_Warpact]

6 minutes ago, Luminara said:

 

 

It doesn't say "only".  That's assumption, not fact.  Your entire premise is based on assumptions like this.  Your first post began with a faulty assumption that

no-one else had teleportation tech, and then followed up with a post containing a screenshot of the wiki which states that other groups have teleportation technology (disproving your assertion, in the manner known as "shooting oneself in the foot").  You assume that the super-powered bad guys we're arresting are frail, weak rabbits (whereas a nuclear explosion couldn't harm the average citizen of Paragon City, said average citizen also being capable of pushing a Granite + Rooted tanker around like an empty cardboard box).  You assume that any villain group not listed as having access to the MediCom system or their own teleportation system is up the creek without a paddle (but on the same page as that screenshot, it uses the phrase "such as" when listing groups with teleporters or MediCom hacks, which implies that there are others which aren't listed).

 

Oh, you also disregard that Cryptic made it very clear, from the first day, that our heroes weren't killing, they were defeating and arresting.  That we don't need to justify, rationalize or explain how we could shoot enemies with arrows and bullets, set them on fire, knock them halfway across the zone, et cetera and not kill them, the developers of the game stated that we weren't killing them.  It doesn't get more canon than that.

 

As trolls go, this one is about a 3/10.  It's too superficial and you're pushing the "if you don't agree with me, you're deluded/lying/an ARPEE monkey" spin too hard.  A really good troll needs to look innocent and earnest, and have at least 80% truth to it in order to be believable, so it's not painfully easy to unveil.  And we all know you're a sociable, likeable person, which blunts the edge even more.

 My point is that it doesn't specify, the Zig is impractical, and there are way too many questions to not assume that a large portion of the villains die. 

Of course Cryptic would say that, how are you going to market a game where the heroes go around and kill people.

 

Not trolling by the way, just think that Paragon isn't as golden as most think and based on the responses so far I'm thinking there are more people ok with killing off the baddies.

[The_Warpact]

6 minutes ago, InvaderStych said:

 

https://hcwiki.cityofheroes.dev/wiki/The_Chantry#Exploration_Badges

 

😉

 

 

That's a good one.

[Glacier Peak]

15 minutes ago, The_Warpact said:

That's a good one.

Aren't these messages planted in to the player's psyche by the aspect of Ruralru? Not their actual thoughts...?

Edited January 24, 2022 by Glacier Peak

[PeregrineFalcon]

27 minutes ago, The_Warpact said:

Not trolling by the way, just think that Paragon isn't as golden as most think and based on the responses so far I'm thinking there are more people ok with killing off the baddies.

 

Like I said, "Men get arrested. Skulls get put down!"

 

 

[Aurora_Girl]

7 hours ago, Luminara said:

 

Transporters on Star Trek have the capability to filter out matter with a high level of specificity.  A weapon, for example, can be left behind, or transported to a different location than the individual being transported.  No reason a flaming arrow couldn't be excluded from teleportation in Co*, given the technological sophistication displayed in the game.

 

Can the teleporter also generate new matter from nothing, to fill the gaping/scalded hole in my face from aforementioned arrow?

 

Not a Trekkie, so I'm legit asking. Conservation of matter and all that. 😏

[Vanden]

Bah, you folks are crying over spilled milk, wringing your hands over some excessive force, when neither heroes or villains could possibly hurt more people with their actions than they do just by existing

[Luminara]

14 minutes ago, The_Warpact said:

Paragon isn't as golden as most think and based on the responses so far I'm thinking there are more people ok with killing off the baddies.

 

Most of us don't care what the end result is in the game.  We're here to mash the keys and watch the flashy lights that we couldn't for the better part of a decade, not ponder the logistics of incarceration in an imaginary world with teleporters.

 

Also, the penal system in the United States is a joke.  We've all become inured to the idea of criminals being back on the streets within months, weeks, even hours after committing felonies.  Of course we're not fretting the fact that a purse-snatcher in a video game is back on the streets three minutes after being arrested.  It's a barely exaggerated reflection of reality.

[Luminara]

1 minute ago, Aurora_Girl said:

 

Can the teleporter also generate new matter from nothing, to fill the gaping/scalded hole in my face from aforementioned arrow?

 

Not a Trekkie, so I'm legit asking. Conservation of matter and all that. 😏

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Chances_(Star_Trek:_The_Next_Generation)

[Aurora_Girl]

1 minute ago, Luminara said:

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Chances_(Star_Trek:_The_Next_Generation)

 

That's not the same thing, you loveable goob. 

 

"the Potemkin had split the transporter beam to cut through the distortions, but one beam was reflected back to the base, so that Riker materialized in both places."

 

He didn't materialize with a new arm or a puppy, now did he? 🤪

[PeregrineFalcon]

6 minutes ago, Aurora_Girl said:

Can the teleporter also generate new matter from nothing, to fill the gaping/scalded hole in my face from aforementioned arrow?

Yes. On TNG they introduced Replicators. These are essentially small transporters that use a pattern in memory to materialize small things like plates of food or cups of Earl Grey tea.

 

They don't technically create matter from nothing, they create it from energy drawn from the ship's power plant.

 

So there's no reason that they couldn't take a snapshot of you when you're beamed down and then use that information to repair you when you're beamed back up to the ship.

 

Don't bother doing the math though. The amount of energy needed to convert it into a cup of tea, with that kind of detail and accuracy, would be something on the order of several seconds of the full output of the sun. A society with the level of technology to do that would also allow you to travel to other star systems without a space ship.

[Spaghetti Betty]

Yeah, mobs are definitely getting murdered by some of these powers. There are a handful of examples where that cannot be the case.

Staff Fighting, Martial Arts, and all that jazz? That can be argued as non-lethal. Any Blaster nuke going off? Yeah, they're dead. Controllers barely get a pass. Mind-based powersets can also be lampshaded.

 

Some of the biggest offenders in my opinion: Claws, Assault Rifle, Fire Blast, Spines, Meteor

[A Cat]

The enemies being fought are semi-super as well though. Even hellions take multiple rifle shots to arrest. 

 

[The_Warpact]

5 minutes ago, Spaghetti Betty said:

 Meteor

F*cking meteor lmfao how could I forget that one...yeah the Hellion you just dropped a METEOR on yeah we can't find any part of him in the crater to tp back to the hospital lol.

[Luminara]

45 minutes ago, Aurora_Girl said:

 

That's not the same thing, you loveable goob. 

 

"the Potemkin had split the transporter beam to cut through the distortions, but one beam was reflected back to the base, so that Riker materialized in both places."

 

He didn't materialize with a new arm or a puppy, now did he? 🤪

 

No, he didn't.  What did materialize was two Rikers.  The original, and an exact duplicate.  Two.  More than one.  There was one, then there were two.  Equating to twice the matter.

 

The matter from which that second Riker was assembled came from... ?  It didn't come from the first Riker.  With half of his mass missing, he would've materialized as a corpse, or a pint-sized version of himself (if he was lucky (or hilariously unlucky, if the episode needed more comedy)).

 

The answer is, obviously, the increased power to the annular confinement beam (energy), the second transporter beam (energy), and the energy in the unstable atmosphere.  m = E/c2.

 

The transporter created matter, without violating the laws of conservation.

 

Theoretically, this could've been used to bring Professor Moriarity out of the holodeck and into real space, but I believe they'd abandoned that story line by that point.  Sadly.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elementary,_Dear_Data

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ship_in_a_Bottle_(TNG_episode)

Edited January 24, 2022 by Luminara
Added links to relevant TNG material mentioned