Support characters in CoX Homecoming?

[SeraphimKensai]

I'm a big fan of support toons in the game. Hell I used to main a PvP Empath Def back on live. Its no secret that I have tons of toons, I talk about them, sometimes probably more than enough.

 

That said like @Snarkymentioned debuffs are the king of support, with one exception, a well built kin for those sweet stacked FS trips to Damage Cap land. A lot of people build IO builds that turn blasters and other Squishies into tanks. Hell I've tanked AV's using defenders with Provoke, and that's not wrong.

 

The issue though is in the current meta controls and some buffs feel less useful, especially for low difficulty content. Luckily playing the game at higher difficulties helps increase their use, and further playing @Linea's AE missions will require more support, along with the new challenge mode the HC Devs have begun implementing. Otherwise as othera have stated playing the game before some set bonuses activate can be a niche area for support too.

 

That said I've never turned a controller or defender away. They are some of my favorite characters to use. I understand that even though I build my toons to be relatively self sufficient, others on whatever team I happen to be on may potentially really need extra support.

 

I will add though, it's fun to see people complain about buffs to enemy npc groups like Creys, which just mean those teams might find need of some support as well.

 

[oedipus_tex]

At level 50, you will always find work if you commit to the role of team leader versus waiting for a team to join. A lot of people enjoy the fast leveling of joining a level 50 team, but appreciate being able to actually participate. A lot of buffs that aren't that great on a fully kitted team are excellent in this scenario. -Defense in particular is a stat that isn't highly regarded in normal content but a game changer on a team full of underslotted heroes. 

 

That said, it's true that certain builds offer very low damage. Mostly this is the low damage Controls sets like Earth, Ice, Mind, and Electric when combined with a secondary like Empathy, Force Field etc. I wouldn't bring any of these on a challenge that requires high DPS. Mainly, the Summer Blockbuster mission comes to mind.

[Albion]

22 hours ago, Mashugana said:

Are support characters like controllers and defenders impactful on teams? It seems like in HC everyone can IO into a monster. So I wonder if buffs and debuffs and lockdowns are useful.

 

Maybe support characters are more useful in non-50 content? So if I wanted to be a pure support maybe i do not take support toons to extreme level 50 content. I dunno.

 

Anyhoo, I love being support and buffing the team.  I just do not want to feel useless 🙂

 

Thanks for any advice.

The beauty of this game is that you can play absolutely anything, take any approach, engage in any way of playing it, and you can make it work, or even kick ass, so ignore the people that tells you you need to play this way or the other and pick this or that, even if they say it is for your own good (or specially if they say that, those are the ones that created the blaster rush teams issue, not to mention, if people complains about, looks down on, or vetoes your choice for a run, while it is their right of choice, they are not the best kind of player to tag along with anyway) that there is archetypes and powerset combos that function way, way better than others is true, that there are those that require way, way more work and investment put into them to make them viable is true too, but play what makes you happy or fulfills your vision for a hero/villain, if you play something you don't like you gonna get bothered soon enough, after that, you can decide how much you want to learn, dig around, grind for so you make your choice shine.

[Crasical]

18 hours ago, Apparition said:

Mostly true, although -dmg is underappreciated IMO.  It's unresistable and can make a big difference.

 

 

IIRC damage debuffs are resisted with typed resistance flags.

 

[Linea]

On 2/8/2022 at 3:55 PM, Mashugana said:

Are support characters like controllers and defenders impactful on teams?

Yes, Buffs, Debuffs, and Controls can completely shift team dynamics.  However, generally I do not advise building 'pure support', and instead encourage you to invest in your offense as well.   If you can contribute in multiple ways, that's usually better and more versatile than being just a one-trick-pony.

• My favorite Empath on 801 runs is an Emp/Psi.  She blasts when not supporting, and comes in particularly handy with that Psionic Damage bypassing armor vs T9 armored snipers.
• I have a favorite Plant/Time/Fire that's an offensive beast, but also can shutdown entire spawns, and support a team all at the same time.
• and many many more.  You can build most characters multiple ways and fill multiple roles.

 

[Techwright]

On 2/8/2022 at 3:55 PM, Mashugana said:

Are support characters like controllers and defenders impactful on teams?

I hardly consider my illusion/storm controller to be "support".  More like "You poor goons are locked in in this instance with me. And me. And me. And me, me, me.  STORM!"  Oh, and here's my team as well.

 

 

That said, I also love my ice controller, and while he IS support, and isn't so much chaos and destruction, it's terribly satisfying to freeze virtually every enemy, even the big ones, if slotted right, then let the team carve on the ice sculptures.

[Marshal_General]

Gravity control is fun.

"I'm going to throw everything at you including the kitchen sink, and here's a forklift just for fun!"

[Mashugana]

Thank you all - this was amazing feedback. I am psyched to level some Defenders and Controllers now - not sure about the pro/con of their Villain versions yet.  Will do some research.

 

Thanks all.

 

Go. Hunt. Kill Skulls.

[biostem]

On 2/17/2022 at 3:26 PM, Mashugana said:

not sure about the pro/con of their Villain versions yet

 

The corruptor is essentially a reverse-defender - they get the blast set as their primary, and the support set as their secondary.  They get a chance to crit on enemies under, IIRC, 50% health.

 

Dominators are a much different animal than controllers, IMHO;  Yes they share primary powersets, but instead of getting a support secondary, they get one that consists of ranged and melee attacks.  Their class special ability, domination, is a separate click power that doubles the strength of your control abilities, refills your HP/END, and grants you status effect protection.

 

You can play any standard AT on either side, though, so just pick what you find most appealing.  You can even switch the EATs to the other side, by speaking to Null the Gull in Pocket D.

[Sir Myshkin]

On 2/8/2022 at 4:03 PM, Bill Z Bubba said:

Murderball of Corrs

Side tangent, can we make this official, like an “unkindness of ravens”?  Let’s make it official.

 

Murderball of Corrs

[Xenosone]

Bill suggested a murderball of corruptors and i approve. Try an all X team and see what impacts you like.  All veats are an unstoppable force. All stalkers are funny too. Youll quickly find out damage is king.

Edited February 23, 2022 by Xenosone

[Doomguide2005]

2 hours ago, Xenosone said:

<snip> Youll quickly find out damage is king.

Which might be the only reason it's not a murderball of Defenders.  Damage cap for Defenders = 400% , Corruptors = 500%.  Pretty much any grouping of all Support characters is a murderball as far as the foe is concerned. Possibly one of the lowest damage primaries is Earth control.   Now picture 8 Rocky's all delivering Seismic Smash to a target 😈.

[Xenosone]

6 minutes ago, Doomguide2005 said:

Which might be the only reason it's not a murderball of Defenders.  Damage cap for Defenders = 400% , Corruptors = 500%.  Pretty much any grouping of all Support characters is a murderball as far as the foe is concerned. Possibly one of the lowest damage primaries is Earth control.   Now picture 8 Rocky's all delivering Seismic Smash to a target 😈.

I did an all kin manticore once. Sloppy fulcrum shifts and lazy speedboosts? Hilarious being at all caps 90% of the time.

[Doomguide2005]

3 minutes ago, Xenosone said:

I did an all kin manticore once. Sloppy fulcrum shifts and lazy speedboosts? Hilarious being at all caps 90% of the time.

Hehe, yeah been on several all Kin runs (Pinball Wizards of the RO Network).  What I'd love to know these days isn't so much about max recharge and damage but what the damage debuff numbers were doing to those foes as they crawled in slow mo around the map getting murderballed.

[MTeague]

19 hours ago, Doomguide2005 said:

Which might be the only reason it's not a murderball of Defenders. 

 

I used to use "Steamroller of Defenders".  My first experience with it was back on Live, Guardian server, an All Defender Task Force for Ernesto Hess.  We had a Stormy, a Rad, a Dark, an Empath, a Forcefielder, a Trick Arrow, and 2 Kin's.  

 

Let's just say it didn't feel "low damage" at all.

[Without_Pause]

8 Defenders on a team is what I call Free XP Day.

[macskull]

On 2/23/2022 at 10:03 AM, Doomguide2005 said:

Which might be the only reason it's not a murderball of Defenders.  Damage cap for Defenders = 400% , Corruptors = 500%.

Also Scourge. On higher-end teams at least, the slightly weaker buff/debuff ability a Corruptor brings is more than evened out by the higher damage especially against hard targets.

[roleki]

On 2/17/2022 at 3:26 PM, Mashugana said:

Thank you all - this was amazing feedback. I am psyched to level some Defenders and Controllers now - not sure about the pro/con of their Villain versions yet.  Will do some research.

 

Thanks all.

 

Go. Hunt. Kill Skulls.

 

Don't sleep on Corruptors!  They can dole out scads of buffs/debuffs AND hit like a truck.  They're about my favorite AT these days.

[ScarySai]

Control is more valuable the harder of a time your team is having.

 

-res is always valuable.

 

The rest are situational.

[Peacemoon]

On 2/8/2022 at 8:55 PM, Mashugana said:

Are support characters like controllers and defenders impactful on teams? It seems like in HC everyone can IO into a monster. So I wonder if buffs and debuffs and lockdowns are useful.

 

Maybe support characters are more useful in non-50 content? So if I wanted to be a pure support maybe i do not take support toons to extreme level 50 content. I dunno.

 

Anyhoo, I love being support and buffing the team.  I just do not want to feel useless 🙂

 

Thanks for any advice.

 

Support isn't as binary in this game. Teams can function without support, but things are a lot easier with it.

 

Also, yes the upper limit on character power is very high, but that is across the board. Support classes can become extremely powerful themselves and still bring their support tools. 

 

As a rule of thumb, at lower levels defensive support is very handy because most characters are at their most vulnerable. As you get higher offensive support really becomes stronger (helping you kill faster, etc.).

So full support sets like Empathy and Force Fields are always useful, but particularly great at lower levels, whereas later levels sets like Storm really come into their own.

The 'best' support sets are often a hybrid between defense and offense.

 

As for Controllers they often do well with more offensive support sets, as their controls are pretty good at locking things down and acting as a defence. 

 

If you want to be 'pure support' Masterminds might be worth a look, as you manage your pets for most of your attacks, and allows you to really solo as an Empathy and others, and have your own little team to buff and heal, which can be fun.

 

Hope this helps 🙂

[Force Redux]

On 2/8/2022 at 1:55 PM, Mashugana said:

Are support characters like controllers and defenders impactful on teams? It seems like in HC everyone can IO into a monster. So I wonder if buffs and debuffs and lockdowns are useful.

 

Maybe support characters are more useful in non-50 content? So if I wanted to be a pure support maybe i do not take support toons to extreme level 50 content. I dunno.

 

Anyhoo, I love being support and buffing the team.  I just do not want to feel useless 🙂

 

Thanks for any advice. 

 

They are never useless. The more defenders and controllers (especially defenders and Corruptors) you add to the team, the easier everything becomes.

 

My controllers and defenders are always welcome in groups, and I always appreciate them in return. 🙂

[Without_Pause]

I will say there is a general lack of support characters being played redside. I think with the lower population there people trend towards melee since it can solo easier.