Updating the Nemesis army

[Techwright]

A hypothetical:

 

Tackling one of the zone Nemesis invasion events today, I killed vigorously arrested my umpteenth Colonel of the Nemesis Army when it suddenly struck me:  colonels should be rare.  Amazing revelation, yes, I know. 🙄   I'm not from a military background but I stayed at a Holiday Inn have many friends who are, and as I understand it from them, colonels would be over bases or an equivalently important force, yes?  Yet apparently Nemesis hands out the rank like participation awards for a kids' county soccer league.  (I had a very nice one.)

 

To my points:

 

• First (and again just hypothetical, it is a game after all) what specialist or other ground unit of a lower rank might be missing that might be interpreted through current game mechanics?  Some units that would allow a colonel to become a less frequent, greater opponent.  And how might that interpretation go?
• Second :  One thing the Nemesis army seems to lack is an aerial element like other groups such as the Sky Raiders have.  True, the exceptional shooting range of Nemesis soldiers compensates for that.  But Nemesis is the master of automatons and amazing clockwork.  Would it not be a natural step therefore to introduce some form of clockwork combat drone?  Not a formal suggestion, just wonder what folks thoughts would be on that.
• Third and final discussion point:  Would a new water-based event featuring the Nemesis army be of interest?  IP, Talos, and PI all have large bodies of water that could work blue side (possibly Kahlisti Warf, too), and red side is all surrounded by water.  The event could randomize location. What I'm pitching is something new:  either a single large warship of Nemesis design sailing into IP harbor or sailing 'round PI, bristling with troops and weaponry, or a small flotilla of smaller vessels, still heavily armed and manned.  For the badge: stop the vessel(s), failure, like the Unusual Clockwork Activity in KR results if the other side completes its action, say reaching a specific docking point and unloading.  You'd still have to clean up the ground units off-ship and might earn Nemesis badges that way, but you'd miss out on whatever badge(s) the ships would have created.  Alternatively:  really go steampunk and make it an aerial warship, with Nemesis units trying to repel to key points.  Then the event could appear in most zones.  I'm guessing a water event could build off the mechanics of the current ghost ship, and the aerial version might build off the mechanics for the Rikti drop ships.

[Clave Dark 5]

3 hours ago, Techwright said:

• Second :  One thing the Nemesis army seems to lack is an aerial element like other groups such as the Sky Raiders have.  True, the exceptional shooting range of Nemesis soldiers compensates for that.  But Nemesis is the master of automatons and amazing clockwork.  Would it not be a natural step therefore to introduce some form of clockwork combat drone?  Not a formal suggestion, just wonder what folks thoughts would be on that.

Time to put those Nemesis mechanical pony models to work!

[Snarky]

those are fake nemesis colonels

[TNT]

When some militaries get "long in the tooth" they get top-heavy.  This results in more officers than necessary.  

 

The Nemesis army has been around for quite a while. 

[Sakai]

40 minutes ago, TNT said:

When some militaries get "long in the tooth" they get top-heavy.  This results in more officers than necessary.  

 

The Nemesis army has been around for quite a while. 

Sounds like a couple of companies I have worked for. 

[Glacier Peak]

1. It's good for unit morale to see high ranking officers on the front line. Good order and discipline. 

 

2. Nemesis War Horse floats off the ground via its rocket legs. So technically an aerial unit. 

 

3. Nemesis Mole Machines can fulfill this role. 

Edited May 2, 2022 by Glacier Peak

[The_Warpact]

1 hour ago, TNT said:

When some militaries get "long in the tooth" they get top-heavy.  This results in more officers than necessary.  

 

The Nemesis army has been around for quite a while. 

Sounds like the company I work for. 

[Rudra]

1) I agree the rank is way over-used by Nemesis forces. However, I'm willing to ignore that because this is a video game and rarely do they follow reality. (Otherwise, a rank of Ensign or Lieutenant would work really well as a replacement name.)

 

2) Nemesis doesn't use clockwork, he uses steam technology. Though the rattle and mechanics of the jaegers looks to be clockwork-based for sure. I'm fine with Nemesis not having aerial units. Unlike the Sky Raiders, the theme does not really fit them.

 

3) That said, an aerial war barge or similar carrying an assault force through IP or other water heavy zone for zone event could be interesting. My fear is that it would become just another ghost ship event. After all, aside from the failure result if they reach the designated port, what you are describing is functionally the ghost ship. Transport makes it way across IP (or other appropriate zone) disgorging troops (ghosts) at possible spawn point along the route until the event finishes at the dock (ghost ship finishes traversing the zone). So how would you make this different from the ghost ship other than event failure if the Nemesis craft reaches its destination? And how would you differentiate it from the current Nemesis event in it being a Nemesis event?

 

This has the basis of being an actually interesting event. I just would like to hear more about how you would differentiate it from what already exists.

 

Edit: What if  you went the Nemesis aerial war barge route and the Sky Raiders sent aerial units like the Sky Skiffs to attack it (purely animation like in Striga and Sharkhead) to show Nemesis the sky is their domain. The Sky Raider units also go hostile when you get close enough to attack, but are otherwise just window dressing. (Though they would also attack Nemesis units when active, not just the players.) Just for flavor.

 

Edit again: Maybe when the ship gets to its destination, a timer starts as a Warhulk monstrosity like the one in the Heldenjaeger arc starts being assembled? Except this one is not incarnate powered, so no need to take down empowered Warhulks to fight it effectively.

 

Lamenting edit: And all I did was combine the Clockwork Paladin with the Ghost Ship and throw on some Sky Raider window dressing.... Sorry.

Edited May 3, 2022 by Rudra

[Akisan]

Funny you should mention the Sky Raiders as a counterpoint for the Nemesis Army not having an aerial presence - IIRC the Sky Raiders are part of the Nemesis Army (or are very directly contracted by them).  There's a blueside Sky Raider / Nemesis arc where it's revealed that the Sky Raider leaders are virtually all officers in the Nemesis Army (Colonel Duran, for example).  So yes, Nemesis does have an air force, he's just going the privateer route from the Golden Age of Piracy.

 

Also, those lower ranks are there - you see Lieutenants and Captains 35-45 ranges, so I'm guessing it's similar to other groups where you fight lower ranked mobs (like Council Nebulae) at lower levels, and as you level you fight more "decorated" members of the same group, just filling the same role.

 

That said - it's high time the Nemesis Army got at least *some* new tech.  He's been having the Sky Raiders steal tech from other groups and the military for quite some time now.  Not sure I want Nemesis-branded Sappers flying around, but stuff like modular clockwork bots would be pretty on point (like Bosses that split into 2 lieutenants which then each split into 2 minions).  Bonus points if these minions, if left alone, eventually pull a Malta Titan and form back up into a Lieutenant (or even another boss...)

 

For a zone event - @Rudra's right, it'd be hard to differentiate a water event from the Ghost Ship.  Maybe something more unique, like some/all of a zone's mobs all being revealed to be Automatons, with some objective that needs to be defended?

[Omega Force]

According to the lore bible, higher level Nemesis troops can all fly under their own power, and don't carry guns anymore.  It's a facinating read.

[Luminara]

[TheZag]

If the craft was in motion and you could stand on it and battle,  that would be something the game doesnt have.  The only in motion objects with collision dont let you stand on them,  you slide off.  That would make it possible to climb aboard and break their stuff before reaching the endpoint.

 

But i imagine that moving platforms dont exist after 18 years for a reason.  A giant mole machine could surface through the water and remain stationary and after smashing the outer defenses,  a door allows access to the inside for the rest of the event.  Probably should have the small mole machines in the regular invasion,  even if its just as decoration.

[Rudra]

5 hours ago, Luminara said:

Okay... what the hell is that from? It's great! 😄

[Luminara]

37 minutes ago, Rudra said:

Okay... what the hell is that from? It's great! 😄

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Next_Doctor

[Lazarillo]

Oh, you just had to open this whole can of worms, getting me to think about the faction that's lore-wise right near the top for me, but in terms of in-game execution, is so frigging boring in both presentation and game mechanics.  Below, the list of beefs:

• First off, consider the overall faction distribution.  There are 12 different types of human minions, but only 3 variations in actual powersets.  Similarly, there are 7 different types of lieutenant-class enemies in the faction, but all of them have the exact same abilities.  That's not even counting the automatons, which are identical, and as a result have giant muskets to pull out despite being so capable of infiltration.  They are a faction in desperate need of variety.  Additional steam-based powers using Water Blast seems like an obvious fix.
• Second is that they are primary a time-sink faction, having Vengeance to stack defense and make them take a long time to kill, but does not really pose any notable additional threat during that time, and similarly, Fake Nemesis being able to use a PFF to be completely unkillable, but, even moreso, literally can't attack at all.  The nature of these powers is generally automatic and thus doesn't really lend itself to strategy, as a result, either.  If you fight a group with three LTs, you are going to have at least one unhittable enemy going all Gin'nosaji on you for the next few minutes.  Possibly a whole mob of such if mission placement is particularly close together.  Not to mention this always kind of struck me immersion breaking.  The soldiers' tactics get better as their commanders die off?  It makes a statement about useless middle management positions, I guess, but I want to believe the Prussian Prince of Automatons is more Doctor Doom than Dogbert.

With that in mind, potential fixes to said major issues, I think, would generally revolve around expanding the level ranges of the mobs but giving them all more unique abilities:

• As noted above, add Steam Gunners at all level ranges using combinations of Aqua Bolt, Water Jet, and Steam Spray (from a gun if possible...otherwise...maybe give 'em fancy gauntlets?).  Human Nemesis minions and LTs could also have a set of "skirmisher"-type fighters that use fancy, ornate-looking broadswords (along with a couple portable steam gauntlets for when/if they're forced into range).  The "surgeon"-type minions should likely get buffed a little.  Make their heal faster, more potent, and maybe add a non-stacking buff when used (it does not seem beneath Nemesis force..."performance enhancers" on his subjects).
• Work a variety of LTs into all level ranges, with each one giving one or more specific leadership buffs.  This will allow players to prioritize and strategize for effectiveness, similar to DE and their emanators (take the Cairns down make things vulnerable, then the Quartz so you don't die, etc).  It would likely, even, make Nemesis even nastier in terms of alpha strikes and early battle than DE (especially if buffs stacked...though that might be too much, especially since DE buffs typically don't), but, maybe somewhat realistically, even, have groups become weaker as more are defeated, as the soldiers lose cohesion and strategies fall apart.  Maybe keep Vengeance on one type of LT, but have it be the player-style Vengeance where they can buff the group when the first minion is defeated (non-stacking if only because I feel like the hit to morale would cancel it out after a while...and working in that much morale is something I've thought about, but is probably too complex).  If old!Vengeance must be maintained, the occasional Pointy-Haired LT with a profile indicating he earned his rank through nepotism, or something, could show up occasionally.
• Rework Automatons to be much more unique, since they would have built in weapons, rather than need to be equipped like humans.  Have Automatons trade their muskets for sub"cutaneous" steam emitters (water blast/fire blast), taser devices (electric melee/manipulation), or enhanced power core technology (electric blast/rad blast/rad melee/rad emission).  Remove leadership abilities from them.  At first I thought it might work as some sort of combat algorithms, but while Nemesis likes machines, but it's noted he has great distaste for digital computing, so that's even more reason to make the Automatons fully unique.  Add a boss class too so it's more than just Warhulks among a bunch of "infiltrators".  Also, to be clear, I think the damage potential on these things should be pretty high.  A Nemesis Automaton should feel like the Terminator has you in its sights.
• Jaegers are both generally fine.  Maybe add a little variety in the Jaegers (there are three types sharing one same skill pattern), but not much.  Maybe turn 'em to Underlings so that they appear in greater numbers?  That's about it.  Bosses are also pretty okay, outside of Fake Nems needing to lose PFF, which adds nothing, makes their associated mobs weaker anyway (since they don't get the big bubble buff), and just sinks time.  Maybe make 'em explode like Warhulks.  Classic Nemesis booby-traps, and all that. 
• Finally, yeah, I do like the idea of flying Nemesis ponies, or some sort of air-support.  Maybe have one or two types of minion and/or LTs that have steam-jetpacks?

[Rudra]

Usually, if there are 2-4 lieutenants and I'm solo, I damage all to near-death, then finish the group all at once with an AoE. Knock down a Fake Nem or hold him, and he can't pop PFF. So strategy is viable against them.

[Rudra]

Thanks, @Luminara.

[biostem]

I would love to see some rank-and-file humanoid automatons added in to their ranks, perhaps with electrical attacks or such...

[Sakura Tenshi]

Honestly, if I were to update the Nemesis Army, I'd probably just steal a bunch of stuff from the games Iron Harvest/Scythe. Hell, the PMZ Smialy Walker even looks like a Nemesis War Hulk with the glass cloche replaced with a tincan.

 

[dtjunkie]

Here's my Nemesis Aerial Unit

 

 

[biostem]

4 minutes ago, dtjunkie said:

Here's my Nemesis Aerial Unit

Those funky monkeys!

[Dynamo-Joe]

 

[Dynamo-Joe]

Nemesis Air Soldier: 

Edited May 9, 2022 by Dynamo-Joe

[Dynamo-Joe]

I'm not sure where in the Nemesis order of battle this guy would go - I'm using the name "Nemesis Golem" as a place-holder name. But in concept this should be about as tall as the Nemesis Warhulk, and unlike the Warhulk, be prioritized for melee combat (super-strength). Also - perhaps it's piloted. But perhaps not. If this is anything like the Warhulks, maybe recolor that central "roundel" on the chest as a window/port-hole of sorts? 

[Turric]

@Dynamo-Joe Dig both of those concepts! Very cool.