AoE Holds Revamp for Controllers/Dominators

[Blackfeather]

Hello all! I’ve decided to take a stab at the Control sets in general this time around by addressing a pain point that’s common to a lot of them: there’s very little reason to take their AoE Hold powers. While they’re ostensibly designed to be an emergency button to help give teams a breather, in practice they’re often unnecessary and unwieldy for a few reasons:

• Low accuracy means that it requires slotting to actually work as expected

• Long recharge times mean they’re often not available when desired

• Other powers within the set often render it redundant for its intended use cases

• In the instances they are used, they can sometimes have little to no effect

As such, the changes here aim to do a couple of things:

• Make these powers usable out of the box, removing accuracy penalties and increasing up-time

• Add other use cases for the AoE Holds outside of just being a panic button

• Avoid infringing on the current playstyle of each of the powersets (don't make the changes too drastic)

I’ll have some further explanation of these changes (or lack of them) after this hypothetical patch notes section.

Control Sets Revamp: AoE Holds

Shared Power Changes

• Recharge time of all AoE Hold powers reduced from 240s to 180s

• Accuracy increased from 0.8 to 1.2, excluding Darkness, Earth and Illusion Control

• Damage added to every AoE Hold (actual amounts in the Details Table below)

  • Darkness = 75% chance of scale 0.02 damage over 45s (90 tics)

  • Earth = increased from 75% chance to 100% chance of scale 0.05 damage over 60s (31 tics)

  • Electric, Ice = variable scale 0.5 damage to scale 3.0 damage

  • Fire, Gravity, Plant = 10 tics of scale 0.22 damage over 8.4s

  • Illusion, Mind, Symphony = scale 2.0 damage

Specific Power Changes

 Chords of Despair  Ranged AoE, High DMG(Psionic), Foe Hold, -Recharge

• Your audience falls into a deep despair, incapacitating them while they suffer from psionic damage. Stronger foes might continue to attack, but will do so at a reduced speed.

  • Base -30% recharge for 18s

 Cinders  PBAoE, High DoT(Fire), Foe Hold, -Range

• Incapacitates foes around the caster by whirling Cinders around them. The targets are left helpless, choking on the soot and suffering from fire damage over time. Even if not held, foes may still find the range of their attacks impaired for a short period of time.

  • -60% range for 15s

 Flash  PBAoE, High DMG(Psionic), Foe Hold, Sleep

• Generates a brilliant flash of light around you that painfully blinds nearby foes. Flashed foes are rendered helpless and unable to defend themselves. More powerful foes may not be held, but can still remain dazed for some time, regaining their senses after being attacked.

  • Accuracy increased from 0.8 to 1.1

  • Inflicts auto-hit Sleep at scale 12 mag 4

 Glacier  PBAoE, DMG(Cold), Foe Hold, -Recharge, -Speed

• You can freeze all foes around yourself in blocks of Glacial ice. The targets are frozen solid, helpless, and can be attacked. Even after the victims emerge, they remain chilled and their attack and movement speed is slowed for a while. Glacier will also inflict cold damage on your targets, increasing based on how slowed your foes were upon its use.

  • -Recharge/-Movement duration increased from 10s to 30s

  • Inflicts cold damage based on -Recharge amount (before initial slow debuff)

    • 0% = x0.5, 15.29 for Controllers, 26.41 for Dominators

    • -50% = x1, 30.59 for Controllers, 52.83 for Dominators

    • -67% = x2, 61.18 for Controllers, 105.66 for Dominators

    • -75% = x3, 91.77 for Controllers, 158.49 for Dominators

 Gravity Distortion Field  Ranged AoE, High DoT(Smashing), Foe Hold, -Speed

• Creates a large, intensely misshapen Gravity Distortion Field that encompasses several foes, rendering them unable to take any action and dealing smashing damage over time. This power can deal bonus damage when used against targets held by Gravity Distortion.

  • Deals bonus Impact damage (scale 0.55) against targets held by Gravity Distortion

  • Propel and Lift deal bonus impact damage against targets affected by Gravity Distortion Field

 Paralyzing Blast  Ranged AoE, DMG(Energy), Foe Hold, -End

• Summoning a large amount of energy, you can completely paralyze a group of foes in cages of electricity for a short time, draining a lot of their endurance and rendering them unable to recover endurance for quite a while. Paralyzing Blast will also inflict energy damage on your targets, increasing based on how much endurance they had left upon its use.

  • Utilises EndMod scales (1.1 for Controllers, 1.0 for Dominators)

  • End Drain base value increased from 7% to 35%

  • -Recovery duration increased from 8s to 20s

  • Inflicts energy damage based on missing endurance (before initial endurance drain)

    • 100% endurance = x0.5, 15.29 for Controllers, 26.41 for Dominators

    • 80% endurance = x1, 30.59 for Controllers, 52.83 for Dominators

    • 40% endurance = x2, 61.18 for Controllers, 105.66 for Dominators

    • 0% endurance = x3, 91.77 for Controllers, 158.49 for Dominators

 Shadow Field  Target (Location AoE), Minor DoT(Negative), Foe Hold, -To Hit

• You blanket a targeted area in darkness immediately holding foes within the field. Any foe who enters this area will begin to take minor negative energy damage, have their chance to hit reduced and has a chance to be held for a short period of time.

 Total Domination  Ranged AoE, High DMG(Psionic), Foe Hold, -Res(Effects)

• Painfully tears at the mind of a target foe and those near them. Total Domination renders all affected foes helpless, lost in their own minds, and less resistant to other status effects for some time. These foes may suffer from psionic damage as well.

  • Reduces resistance to status effects for 60s

    • -34.6% for Controllers, -25.95% for Dominators

    • Includes Holds, Stuns, Sleeps, Immobilizes, Confuses, and Fears

 Vines  Ranged AoE, High DoT(Smashing), Foe Hold

• Creates a field of Strangler Vines that can Hold multiple foes at range. The affected targets are rendered helpless and slowly crushed by the massive root-like vines, and has a good chance of affecting stronger foes than Strangler does.

  • 50% chance for additional scale 8 mag 3 hold

  • Overpower hold duration normalised from scale 4 to scale 6

 Volcanic Gasses  Ranged (Location AoE), Minor DoT(Fire), Special, Foe Hold, -DEF

• You can tap into the geothermal power of the Earth and focus it at a targeted location. Foes that pass near a thermal vent will take minor Fire damage, have their Defense reduced, and be overcome by the gasses, leaving them choking and helpless.

  • -15% Defense

Details Table

Powers	Accuracy	Recharge	Damage Formulas | Archetype Calculations	Base Effects
Chords of Despair	0.8 → 1.2	240s ⇩ 180s	2.0 * Ranged_Damage	(-0.3 * Ranged_Slow)% Recharge for 18s
			Controller = 61.18 Psionic damage Dominator = 105.66 Psionic damage	Controller = -37.5 Recharge Dominator = -30% Recharge
Cinders	0.8 → 1.2		(0.22 * Ranged_Damage) every 0.8s for 8.4s	(-0.6 * Ranged_Ones)% Range for 15s
			Controller = 67.29 Fire DoT (6.729 per tic) Dominator: 116.23 Fire DoT (11.623 per tic)	Controller = -60% Range Dominator = -60% Range
Flash	0.8 → 1.1		2.0 * Ranged_Damage	(12 * Ranged_Sleep) Sleep (Mag 4) after 0.25s
			Controller = 61.18 Psionic damage Dominator: 105.66 Psionic damage	Controller = 22.36s Sleep Dominator = 17.88s Sleep
Glacier	0.8 → 1.2		(0.5 to 3.0) * Ranged_Damage (based on foe -Recharge)	(-0.5 * Ranged_Slow)% Movement/Recharge for 30s
			Controller = 15.29 to 91.77 Cold damage Dominator = 26.41 to 158.49 Cold damage	Controller = 62.5% Slow Dominator = 50% Slow
Gravity Distortion Field	0.8 → 1.2		(0.22 * Ranged_Damage) every 0.8s for 8.4s	(0.55 * Ranged_Damage) Impact damage Grants Impact damage for Lift/Propel
			Controller = 67.29 Smashing DoT (6.729 per tic) Dominator = 116.23 Smashing DoT (11.623 per tic)	Controller = 16.82 Impact damage Dominator = 29.06 Impact damage
Paralyzing Blast	0.8 → 1.2		(0.5 to 3.0) * Ranged_Damage (based on foe endurance)	(-0.35 * Ranged_EndDrain)% End (-1.0 * Ranged_EndDrain)% -Recovery for 20s
			Controller = 15.29 to 91.77 Energy damage Dominator = 26.41 to 158.49 Energy damage	Controller = -38.5% End, -110% Recovery Dominator = -35% End, -100% Recovery
Shadow Field	1.0		(0.02 * Melee_Damage) every 0.5s for 45s (75% chance)	(-1.5 * Melee_Debuff_ToHit)% ToHit
			Controller = 75.07 Negative DoT over 45s (1.1122 per tic) Dominator = 75.07 Negative DoT over 45s (1.1122 per tic)	Controller = -15% ToHit Dominator = -15% ToHit
Total Domination	0.8 → 1.2		2.0 * Ranged_Damage	(1.0 * Ranged_Res_Boolean) -Res(Effects) for 60s
			Controller = 61.18 Psionic damage Dominator = 105.66 Psionic damage	Controller = -34.6% Res(Effects) Dominator = -25.95% Res(Effects)
Vines	0.8 → 1.2		(0.22 * Ranged_Damage) every 0.8s for 8.4s	(8 * Ranged_Immobilize) Hold (Mag 3), 50% chance
			Controller = 67.29 Smashing damage (6.729 per tic) Dominator = 116.23 Smashing damage (11.623 per tic)	Controller = 14.90s Hold (Mag 3) Dominator = 11.92s Hold (Mag 3)
Volcanic Gasses	1.4		(0.05 * Melee_Damage) every 2s for 60s (100% chance)	(-1.5 * Melee_Debuff_Def)% Defense
			Controller = 86.20 Fire DoT over 60s (2.7805 per tic) Dominator = 86.20 Fire DoT over 60s (2.7805 per tic)	Controller = -15% Defense Dominator = -15% Defense

Detailed Thoughts

I figured a recharge time of 180s would improve the up-time of these AoE Hold powers somewhat, while still retaining their role as a ‘backup’ control power to the rest of a Controller/Dominator’s toolkit. To put this into perspective, that’s still longer than any of the T9 ‘nuke’ powers from the ranged damage power sets – Blizzard comes out on top at 170s.

I also decided to increase the accuracy of these powers to match their single target equivalents (excluding the patch Holds as they’re already in a good spot). This should help them to function out of the box, especially useful given how early some of them can be taken, letting them work as intended even with minimal slotting.

In addition to this, some of the AoE Holds have the duration of their secondary effects increased, or even introduced in the case of Chords of Despair (taken from the secondary effect of Hymn of Dissonance), allowing them to have some kind of effect even if enemies are protected against them. For instance, Flash can now put most higher ranking enemies to sleep, even if it can’t outright hold them (I figured it’d be nice to extend Blind’s sleep effect to its AoE counterpart). And on the topic of additional effects…

Why Add Damage?

Perhaps the most controversial change here is the decision to introduce damage to all of the AoE Holds. While it’s true that this is breaking a trend (mind, Volcanic Gasses does do damage already – I just increased it here), I do think that this is a beneficial addition, both for providing some additional use-cases for these powers, and for improving Control sets as a whole.

Controllers especially have issues damage-wise at the lower levels, and many AoE Holds come in relatively early, making these powers an excellent place to provide them with some much needed capacity on that front. Due to their high recharge time, there should still be plenty of need for other, faster recharging AoE damage powers to fill in the gaps – I don’t see it stepping on any toes.

For the lower-damage sets, namely Ice and Electric Control, I took this idea further. Their AoE Holds have much higher damage potential...so long as they fully slow/drain enemies first. Electric Control’s implementation is basically an answer to Electric Blast’s Shocked mechanic, except within a single a power (Electric Control doesn’t really have enough damaging powers to make a one-to-one translation of that system over anyhow).

Conclusion

With these changes, I hope to make the AoE Holds in Control sets desirable and potent power selections. With a higher up-time, more forgiving accuracy, and a solid amount of damage (especially for Ice and Electric Control) alongside a smattering of secondary effects, they’ll hopefully be something that plenty of potential Controllers and Dominators might want to pick up more often.

Thank you for taking a look at this proposal – I’d love to hear your thoughts on this!

Edited January 6 by Blackfeather
Fixed broken icons.

[Greycat]

Mm.

 

The recharge time wouldn't hurt, certainly.

 

And yeah, I'm iffy about the damage. Primarily because (a) you're setting up containment on a group, now, and (b) Dominators don't really need it. (And I'm a little "eh" about ice and elec getting gimmicky.) Not saying it's bad or broken, just that I'm "eh" about it. Gut feel.

[biostem]

Reduce the recharge time & adjust the accuracy to be the normal 1.00.

[krj12]

My biggest issue with holds in general, is that they rarely work on anything higher than a lieutenant level mob,  and when it does - it doesn't last very long.

 

Base chance to hold and hold duration need to be upped a bit imho.    It would also be nice if more AVs and EBs could be susceptible to holds - would make the class

much more useful in end game content.

 

 

 

[Doomguide2005]

45 minutes ago, krj12 said:

My biggest issue with holds in general, is that they rarely work on anything higher than a lieutenant level mob,  and when it does - it doesn't last very long.

 

Base chance to hold and hold duration need to be upped a bit imho.    It would also be nice if more AVs and EBs could be susceptible to holds - would make the class

much more useful in end game content.

 

 

 

     Part of this problem,  I suspect, is the powers were designed around the base difficulty of +0/×1 not +4/×8.  Duration of the mez like almost everything else is reduced by the Purple Patch.  The second is the very binary nature of mez in general.  Either it works or it doesn't at least for the mez portion of a power.

     As for AVs and EBs.  Funny thing here is while the PToD are down (1/3 down 2/3 uptime), EBs are harder to mez than most AV's.  AVs that downgrade to an EB retain the EB lvl protection.  Those that don't have boss lvl protection.

 

 

 

[Blackfeather]

2 hours ago, krj12 said:

My biggest issue with holds in general, is that they rarely work on anything higher than a lieutenant level mob,  and when it does - it doesn't last very long.

 

Base chance to hold and hold duration need to be upped a bit imho.    It would also be nice if more AVs and EBs could be susceptible to holds - would make the class

much more useful in end game content.

 

That's fair! Controllers especially don't have many ways of increasing the magnitude of their status effects besides hoping Overpower procs, which can be quite unreliable. If there were a way of increasing the chance of it triggering, that'd be quite nice, I think. I'm partial to the idea of increasing that chance based on the amount of status effects already applied on a foe, or maybe something based on how much health/endurance they have left. Maybe even having that Overpower provide a magnitude that's higher than just one too?

 

It's part of why the bonus on  Vines was a chance of an additional Mag 3 Hold - Plant Control doesn't really have much in the way of things to fall back on if their Seeds isn't strong enough to affect foes. And in a similar vein, why the additional bonus on  Total Domination lets the rest of their controls last longer on foes; they don't really have any long lasting area effects like the other sets do, so they're relying on the duration of their status effects holding up.

[MoonSheep]

i’m not too keen on these changes and personally think that nerfing the AoE holds by adding damage is unnecessary given the powers aren’t too frequently used

 

the accuracy in my view has never been too noticeable, slotting 2 acc IOs in an AoE hold power seems to suffice, especially given a lot of characters will have accuracy bonuses from cheap IO sets and various buffs when teaming

 

the duration can also be increased via enhancements allowing for longer holds and increased chance of quickly overlapping an ST hold on bosses to stack the mez 

 

a small recharge time buff is welcomed, especially to allow the powers greater use at lower levels 

[Yomo Kimyata]

If you add damage at all you are also adding -res procs (Annihilation or Fury of the Gladiator) so it just vastly improves team damage.  I don't think that the game needs more power creep damage.

[UltraAlt]

On 9/27/2022 at 5:48 PM, Blackfeather said:

Low accuracy means that it requires slotting to actually work as expected

 

oh, no! I have to slot accuracy?!

I slot 2 ACC in every power with a hit check unless I can generate that accuracy boost with IO Sets and contant to-hit buffs.

 

On 9/27/2022 at 5:48 PM, Blackfeather said:

Long recharge times mean they’re often not available when desired

 

Oh, no! I have to save a power until I really need it instead of burning it every time it recharges!?

 

On 9/27/2022 at 5:48 PM, Blackfeather said:

AoE Hold powers. While they’re ostensibly designed to be an emergency button

 

Uh, wait. You know that they to be held until they are really needed instead of being activated as soon as they recharge.

/e face palm

 

On 9/27/2022 at 5:48 PM, Blackfeather said:

Other powers within the set often render it redundant for its intended use cases

 

Uh, what other powers in a set have a chance of holding an entire mob?

I think I missed taking those. Are those like the extra Khelian powers that you have to scroll down the primary list to see because they go off the bottom of the page?!

I'm always missing those ...because I make Kheldians so rarely.

 

On 9/27/2022 at 5:48 PM, Blackfeather said:

In the instances they are used, they can sometimes have little to no effect

 

Maybe slot them up if you want them to be useful?

I hear that's a thing, but you know the internet. It might be silly to think slotting +accuracy or +holds into them would do anything to help how effective they are.

 

On 9/27/2022 at 5:48 PM, Blackfeather said:

Make these powers usable out of the box, removing accuracy penalties and increasing up-time

 

How about we up END use so it completely deletes the your end bar and you can't gain any END for a minute or two when you use it?

That might balance out the blatant overpowering of the power.

 

----

I'm going to stop.

I just wanted to point out what I see as flaws in this without simply /jranger'ing it.

[Doomguide2005]

Outside of perhaps tweaking recharge times (there's a reason I usually push global recharge on most controller builds) I'm really not seeing the issues said to be involved.  Accuracy of 0.8 is readily overcome (it's less than one SO's worth of accuracy), duration is plenty long enough typically certainly enough to stack mag on a boss.  Damage well sure love some but ... do I need it to make the power useful, No.  Not seeing the problem.

[kelika2]

As someone who is set in their ways and worked around building out of AoE primary holds and using AE to reroll 6 controllers to /radiation I must decline this offer of making a primary set power useful as to not respec 12+ controllers and dominators.  thank you

[Blackfeather]

9 hours ago, MoonSheep said:

i’m not too keen on these changes and personally think that nerfing the AoE holds by adding damage is unnecessary given the powers aren’t too frequently used

 

the accuracy in my view has never been too noticeable, slotting 2 acc IOs in an AoE hold power seems to suffice, especially given a lot of characters will have accuracy bonuses from cheap IO sets and various buffs when teaming

 

the duration can also be increased via enhancements allowing for longer holds and increased chance of quickly overlapping an ST hold on bosses to stack the mez 

 

a small recharge time buff is welcomed, especially to allow the powers greater use at lower levels 

 

Hello! I'm happy to hear that the change to recharge speeds was well received.

 

However, I'd like a little bit of clarification if you're alright with that - the addition of damage to AoE Holds was intended to be an improvement to them. In what ways does the change make them worse/in what aspects?

[Zepp]

There are a lot of Control and Buff powers that need to be looked at in terms of recharge, but there is one small change that could help a little. Increase the ppm of Lockdown's +2 Mag hold to be at least as good as the procs in Devastation & Superior Blistering Cold. It is odd that the ST damage procs are more useful than the Hold proc...

 

This may not be that important to the current state of AoE holds, however if their cooldown is made more reasonable, this could become an issue.

Edited September 30, 2022 by Zepp

[MoonSheep]

4 hours ago, Blackfeather said:

 

Hello! I'm happy to hear that the change to recharge speeds was well received.

 

However, I'd like a little bit of clarification if you're alright with that - the addition of damage to AoE Holds was intended to be an improvement to them. In what ways does the change make them worse/in what aspects?

 

hey, not a problem. i see you’ve put a lot of thought into the changes

 

in my view the addition of damage is also the removal of stealth. on my mind dom i like that several powers have no damage, it allows me to lock down mobs and not have them aggro when the control wears off

[Rudra]

I agree with @MoonSheep. Being able to mez enemies without aggroing them is key to how I play the few Controllers/Dominators I have. Please don't take that from me. If players want damage in their non-damage mezzes? They can slot damage procs, and as far as I know, already do so quite heavily.

[Blackfeather]

On 9/30/2022 at 5:04 AM, kelika2 said:

As someone who is set in their ways and worked around building out of AoE primary holds and using AE to reroll 6 controllers to /radiation I must decline this offer of making a primary set power useful as to not respec 12+ controllers and dominators.  thank you

 

Ahahah! I'm glad I made the proposal sound appealing to the point of not wanting it from a mass-respeccing perspective. 😄

[Blackfeather]

On 9/30/2022 at 10:59 AM, Zepp said:

There are a lot of Control and Buff powers that need to be looked at in terms of recharge, but there is one small change that could help a little. Increase the ppm of Lockdown's +2 Mag hold to be at least as good as the procs in Devastation & Superior Blistering Cold. It is odd that the ST damage procs are more useful than the Hold proc...

 

This may not be that important to the current state of AoE holds, however if their cooldown is made more reasonable, this could become an issue.

 

I never noticed that before, had to check that on CoD. That's definitely an interesting tid-bit! It seems like Superior Blistering Cold is the only one with a Mag 3 Hold attached to it, while Devastation and Lockdown are only Mag 2. However, Lockdown has a 2.5 PPM rate, while the others have 3. Definitely a little strange, but learn something new every day!

[Zeraphia]

I honestly am for this change, however I still believe in most builds the AoE hold will end up being a skip or simply a set mule. 

 

To be quite truthful, I think it might be time to add special effects to enemies that are under the effects of Held status to make getting Hold powers more attractive rather than solely the powers themselves. 

 

There are an infinite number of ways to approach the above scenario. One may suggest "enemies under effects of Held status take bonus independent multiplier damage" to "enemies suffering under held status take additional debuff effects" blah blah blah, but someone on here will have an issue with whatever the approach to this is. 

[Blackfeather]

On 9/30/2022 at 1:02 PM, MoonSheep said:

hey, not a problem. i see you’ve put a lot of thought into the changes

 

in my view the addition of damage is also the removal of stealth. on my mind dom i like that several powers have no damage, it allows me to lock down mobs and not have them aggro when the control wears off

 

Thank you! I definitely tried to improve them in a way that didn't infringe on how they currently behaved and so on.

 

Oddly enough, even powers that don't deal damage can notify enemies - Seeds of Confusion is the first one that comes to mind (which is what the Notify Mobs tag indicates in CoD; this can be tested by attempting to use Seeds from stealth and missing, causing foes to attack back), but even others like Salt Crystals, Earth Control's PBAoE Sleep alerts enemies of the user's presence.

 

Mind Control has three exceptions to this, in Confuse, Mass Hypnosis and Mass Confusion, which are specifically flagged not to notify mobs. On the other hand, Total Domination, its AoE Hold, is indeed flagged to always notify mobs. This is the same for every AoE Hold power.

 

Hope this clears some things up! Essentially, the AoE Holds never really had a form of stealth to begin with, even though they don't deal damage.

Edited October 2, 2022 by Blackfeather

[MoonSheep]

11 hours ago, Blackfeather said:

 

Thank you! I definitely tried to improve them in a way that didn't infringe on how they currently behaved and so on.

 

Oddly enough, even powers that don't deal damage can notify enemies - Seeds of Confusion is the first one that comes to mind (which is what the Notify Mobs tag indicates in CoD; this can be tested by attempting to use Seeds from stealth and missing, causing foes to attack back), but even others like Salt Crystals, Earth Control's PBAoE Sleep alerts enemies of the user's presence.

 

Mind Control has three exceptions to this, in Confuse, Mass Hypnosis and Mass Confusion, which are specifically flagged not to notify mobs. On the other hand, Total Domination, its AoE Hold, is indeed flagged to always notify mobs. This is the same for every AoE Hold power.

 

Hope this clears some things up! Essentially, the AoE Holds never really had a form of stealth to begin with, even though they don't deal damage.

 

ah, that’s good to know - hadn’t noticed the aggro too much on total domination

 

the addition of damage may open up new proc strategies that interest some people for sure 

 

perhaps i’m being too resistant to change, i should welcome a buff!

[blue4333]

Love this idea!

 

Might as well kill the enemies instead of just standing there staring at each other.

[UltraAlt]

On 9/27/2022 at 5:48 PM, Blackfeather said:

While they’re ostensibly designed to be an emergency button to help give teams a breather, in practice they’re often unnecessary and unwieldy for a few reasons

 

I'm going to try to be a bit more direct about my input on this.

 

Yes. This is an "Oh, s***!" power.

That is exactly what it was designed to be.

 

Fire it off when things go south and run for it .... everyone on the team run for it!

 

I know that most teams don't want to run for it.

Often times using an "Oh, s***!" power can be enough to turn the tide and the team can overcome the enemy given the slight reprieve. 

 

They have a long recharge time because they aren't meant to be used all the time.

They are there to be saved for that "Oh, s***!' moment. 

 

I understand that there are those that just want to bulldoze everything and experience no challenge. The difficulty settings have nothing to do with it. If you can rampage through +4/x8 mobs without a risk is no challenge.  There is no excitement, there is only button mashing and destruction.

 

These power can hit more and hold longer if they are slotted up. They can even be used faster if you slot recharges in them.

But they aren't made to be used rapidly or as soon as they recharge. They aren't damage powers. They are "save your butt" powers.

 

The best solution to not liking them is not putting them in your build.

 

I believe that the do what they were intended to do when they are saved for the time that they are intended to be used. It helps if your team knows how to react when thing go south.

Bull-in-the-china-shop aka Hulk Smash! is not the only tactic.

Retreating to avoid defeat is just that.

There is an ebb and flow in superheroic stories. Heroes overcome difficulties. They aren't always victorious.

A true triumphant feeling occurs when you defeat something that you couldn't defeat before.

 

These powers are based on that. Turn-the-tide or get-away. They are made to be used in that emergency situation intentionally. That is what they are for.

There is nothing wrong with that. In fact, it is genre relevant.

[MoonSheep]

2 hours ago, UltraAlt said:

Fire it off when things go south and run for it .... everyone on the team run for it!

 

They are there to be saved for that "Oh, s***!' moment. 

 

so about once per mob? 😛

[UltraAlt]

39 minutes ago, MoonSheep said:

so about once per mob? 😛

 

Wow. What kind of team are you on when you get in a rough spot when the entire team is about to go down every mob?

 

The only one that I have ever seen that were that bad was one when the guy leading the team upped the difficulty up far too high for the team to be able to handle.

And I mean one (1) team like that.

 

I don't know who you are on teams with, but you might want to check out PUG'ing if your regular crew is almost having a complete team wipe every mob.

 

Edited October 4, 2022 by UltraAlt

[Blackfeather]

On 9/30/2022 at 1:24 PM, Rudra said:

I agree with @MoonSheep. Being able to mez enemies without aggroing them is key to how I play the few Controllers/Dominators I have. Please don't take that from me. If players want damage in their non-damage mezzes? They can slot damage procs, and as far as I know, already do so quite heavily.

 

Hello! Per the explanation over here, the changes introduced to the AoE Holds shouldn't change anything enemy behaviour wise - they already draw aggro:

 

 

To paraphrase, all AoE Holds are set to notify enemies of their use whether or not they deal damage, which can be seen by looking into CoD (check for the Notify Mobs: Always tag in Total Domination here for instance, but all other AoE Holds have the same behaviour). Similarly, other powers that don't deal damage can indeed notify enemies, such as Seeds of Confusion.

 

Hope this clears some things up!