Focused Feedback: Force Fields Revamp

[The Curator]

Force Fields

Force Bolt (now Repulsion Bolt)

• Now applies -20% (Defender Values) Resistance to all damage for 30s.
• Recharge increased to 10s.

Dispersion Bubble

• Dispersion buff lasts for 15s, allowing it to apply if you leave its radius or the toggle drops briefly.

Repulsion Field

• Combined with Force Bubble, now includes a 20ft radius Repel aura alongside a 9ft radius Knockback aura.
• The larger repel area acts just as Force Bubble does.
• No longer drains endurance per target hit in PvE.
• If slotted for KB2KD, the repel is also disabled.

Repulsion Bomb (now Force Bomb)

• Activation time lowered to 1.67s from 3.07s.
• Damage lowered to Scale 0.6 from Scale 1. 
• Stun chance lowered to 10% from 40%
• Now uses Vectored Knockdown
• Now applies -15% (Defender Values) Resistance to all damage for 30s.

Force Bubble (now Dampening Bubble)

• Now a Click power with 90s rech, and 5.2 Endurance cost.
• Summons a Pseudopet at your location that casts a 55ft radius Dampening Bubble for 45s.

• Applies +Special Resistance to yourself and allies (Defender Values):

  • 43.25% res to ToHit, Accuracy, Perception, Slow, Recharge, and Regeneration debuffs

  • 21.63% res to Defense Debuffs. This is enhanceable with Defense enhancements.

• Applies -Special to a max of 16 enemies inside the field:

  • -43.25% ToHit, Slow, Perception, Regeneration

  • -23.63% Defense

• The Dampening Bubble will move to your location if summoned again during it's duration.

[Asymptotic]

Overall, I'm cautiously optimistic on the changes.  Bubblers now offer more than just defense, status protection, and knockback.  It should make them more desirable in the end-game.

 

Here are my thoughts about the changes:

• Force bolt: The increased recharge time doesn't bother me much since I never used it on recharge.  And the longer recharge time means that slotting it with procs makes a lot more sense.  The -20% res for AVs is nice. 
• Dispersion Bubble: Nice change.
• Detention Field: Don't know why they haven't made any changes to this power.  It's the worst power in the set, IMHO.
• Repulsion Field: Kinda weird that you choose whether you have Force Bubble or the old Repulsion Field by slotting.  I do approve of the smaller Force Bubble size.  I found the old 50m size too large to be of much use.  I also approve of the removal of the per-target end drain of repulsion field.  It made Repulsion Field dangerous to use in large groups if you had a KB2KD slotted in it.
• Repulsion Bomb: The lower damage is disappointing, since I used this power primarily as an attack.  The lowered activation time and res-debuf is welcome.
• Dampening Bubble: Provides a lot of good bufs and debufs.  And the def-debuf protection is sorely needed.

[Sir Myshkin]

Okay. Earlier I did a struggle-paste from mobile to get information moved into this feedback from the old suggestions thread but now I'm actually sitting somewhere I can type and actually express more fluently some thoughts based on what's been enlightened here.

 

For non-scrolling reference, the original concept I'm working from:

Spoiler

• Deflection and Insulation Shield
  • Add 15% DDR to each shield, combining total of 30% for both. Defense is the bread-and-butter of what Force Field is, it should have a way of tolerating a bad hit.
• Personal Force Field
  • Allow for a non-combat status and a combat status like Superior Invisibility. While static, does everything that PFF does now. When combat is initiated by the player, suppress to 10% Defense and 5% Resistance, enhanceable so that a player can get those values to 15/10. That, in combination with Disperssion Bubble would get them around 28-30% Defense.
  • Add 20% DDR, you're a master at these things for crying out loud!
• Force Bolt
  • Add a -Def component
  • Bump to 33 base damage
  • Add KB/KD splash (ala Propel)
• Repulsion Bomb
  • Reduce the cast time to 1.7/s to bring it in line with comparable tier 8 targeted AoE's
  • Reduce the recharge to 16/s to bring it in line with comparable tier 8 targeted AoE's
  • Add -Def component
• Detention Field
  • Keep intangibility stasis effec, change power description to "You've contained a foe in your strongest impenetrable field, while trapped they cannot break out, but the intense pressure of the field will slowly begin to crush them, wearing them down. This ability is taxing and can't be held for long."
  • Add -Def and -Res component with the following conditions:
    • Detention Field becomes a toggle with a max duration of 30/s.
    • Initial activation will apply a -10% Def and -20% Res with 50/s duration. At 10/s an additional -10% and -10% respectively for 45/s, and at 20/s another -10% and -10% for 40/s
    • 1.0 EPS toggle cost with a 10/s -Recovery on Player (balance end cost on short kicks).
• Repulsion Field
  • Option 1: Alter to match Disruption Field as a toggle AoE on target ally. Causes -5% Def and -20% Res. Primary KB, Sudden Acceleration allows it to become KD.
    • "You warp your Force Fields around an ally, all foes that get too close will get pushed back and struggle to make contact. The field is so tiring to deal with and hits so hard, enemies will wear down quickly."
  • Option 2: Turn the field into a "pet" similar to Singularity using existing models for the fields. Pet is a traveling KB/KD in the same nature as Singularity. Will chase down enemies. Has no attacks, and the aura has the same -5% Def and -20% Res attribute. (This option keeps the field stable for Solo FF users, but gives the ability more diversity, and keeps the support role out of Melee, and it would be a somewhat "unique" mechanic to just FF).
• Dispersion Bubble
  • It's perfect except for one small thing: Grants 20% DDR to all residents in the field.
• Force Bubble
  • Change power to "Influence Bubble"
  • Grant player three toggle options that alter how the Influence Bubble acts:
    • Force Bubble
      • When toggled, Influence Bubble acts exactly as Force Bubble does now, no change for the purists.
    • Oppressive Bubble
      • "Your abilities are impressive, and in these fields you are the master of their effects. You use your Force Fields to slow your enemies and misguide their attacks."
      • -Dam, -To-Hit, Slow within the field, adds secondary effect to Dispersion Bubble when active, creating layered effect.
        • Dispersion Bubble gains +Absorb on all allies within Dispersion Bubble every 10/s. This value must be weighed and tested for what would quantify an appropriate amount, my initial guess would be something like 5% stacking up to five times.
        • The power description would be something like "Simply oppressing your enemies movements allows you to focus on your allies, improving the shields around you and your team, giving them greater density against enemy attacks"
    • Chaos Bubble
      • Alternate field to Force Bubble, swaps to 50% chance to KD, 20% chance to Stun in the large field, 5 damage every 2/s.
      • "Shifting your focus from your allies to your enemies you put all your energy into making tiny force pellets, pummeling those who enter your Chaos Bubble and knocking them down. The pellets move so fast they'll do minor smashing damage, and possibly hit hard enough to disorient an enemy."
      • Gives Dispersion Bubble:
        • "Dispersion Bubble is your ultimate domain, an enemy who manages to make it this close will feel the full force of what your fields can do."
        • Force Bolt and Repulsion Bomb Doublehit.
        • 100% chance to KD

 

Modified under current trajectory, stuff in blue are items I revised from my original thoughts back in 2019 to fit the current dynamic of proposals by the Dev team in this round of beta testing for Force Fields. I used some design consideration from their process with Trick Arrow in how I approached some of the revision here while trying to keep what I feel is the heart of FF true, and not over complicate the spread of power choices. I do feel to an extent that Trick Arrow and Electric Affinity were examples of having too vast an array of interweaving choices, here things stay more true-to-lane.

 

• Deflection and Insulation Shield 
  • Each grants one stack of Force Protection, 120/s duration.
  • I did pull the DDR from here and move it below, I can concede the process of centralizing DDR into one power.
• Personal Force Field
  • Allow for a non-combat status and a combat status like Superior Invisibility. While static, does everything that PFF does now. When combat is initiated by the player, suppress to 10% Defense and 5% Resistance, enhanceable so that a player can get those values to 15/10. That, in combination with Disperssion Bubble would get them around 28-30% Defense.
  • Grants one stack of Force Protection while on.
• Force Bolt
  • Add -15% Res (Defender) on primary target.
  • Bump to 33 base damage
  • Add KB/KD splash (ala Propel)
  • There are a few staple powers that were always vocally out spoken (we have already seen that here in this feedback thread) against loosing certain features. This is one of those powers that should be strengthened, but not deviate from its original path.
• Force Bomb (previously Repulsion Bomb)
  • Reduce the cast time to 1.67/s from 3.07/s
  • Increase the recharge to 60/s
  • Add -15% Def component (20/s)
  • Add -20% To-Hit Component (15/s)
  • Add Vectored Knockdown
  • Alter stun to 20% Mag 3 (10/s)
  • While I agree that turning this power into a better utility is necessary, shredding its damage and popping in a low level -Res is mediocre, and thematically some of the effects in Dampening Bubble don't make sense in the same power where they can be separated here. Modeled this around the same structures of several other abilities that contain -ToHit functions from a Support stand point. Keeps its current damage output.
• Detention Bubble (Previously Detention Field)
  • Now has -50% Slow
  • Now has -30% Recharge
  • Now has -30% Res
  • Now has -150% Regen
  • Now has 30' Radius
  • No longer an intangible capture field, still 60/s recharge, 30/s duration.
  • Descriptive Text: "You create an atmospherically dense bubble that wears down any enemy that enters, greatly slowing them down and weakening their resolve to fight." It's about time this power did something useful. Instead of trying to force comply other powers to getting -Res into the set, lets fix this one to do that job!
• Expulsion Field (Previously Repulsion Field)
  • Combined with Force Bubble, now includes a 20ft radius Repel aura alongside a 9ft radius Knockback aura.
  • The larger repel area acts just as Force Bubble did.
  • No longer drains endurance per target hit in PvE.
  • If slotted for KB2KD, the repel is also disabled.
  • No complaints here, this is as offered by the Devs, I just think the name needs changed, it was a little repulsive.
• Dispersion Bubble
  • Effects linger for 15/s if player leaves the influence of the bubble. Can't disagree, this is a solid call.
• Force Domain (Previously Force Bubble)
  • Now a click power with 60/s recharge and 15 end cost with 30/s duration.
  • Grants 5% stacking Absorb for each layer of Force Protection up to 4 stacks maximum.
    • The power description would be something like "Simply oppressing your enemies movements allows you to focus on your allies, improving the shields around you and your team, giving them greater density against enemy attacks"
  • Applies +Special (Defender) to you and allies:
    • 21.63% (enhanceable) to Defense Debuffs
    • 25% Damage, 10% To-Hit, 35% Perception
    • 35% Regen, To-Hit, Perception, Slow, and Recharge Debuff Resistance
  • Applies -Special up to 16 target enemies:
    • -25% Damage, -25% To-Hit, -50% Perception, -Heal, -100% Regen

Edited October 5, 2022 by Sir Myshkin

[Wavicle]

I like these changes. I do hope that PFF and Detention Field get looked at in the future, but this is a big improvement.

 

I think adding -Speed (maybe not -Recharge) to Repulsion Field would help it function better.

[Marbing]

7 hours ago, Wavicle said:

I like these changes. I do hope that PFF and Detention Field get looked at in the future, but this is a big improvement.

 

I think adding -Speed (maybe not -Recharge) to Repulsion Field would help it function better.

-spd, maybe even -dmg would be great on a slightly larger radius than the bubble.

outside of that, i think repulsion bombs damage should be kept at scale 1.

 

Yes, detention field still needs a look. 

I dont mind PFF in its current iteration, it has its uses as is.

[Vanden]

2 hours ago, Marbing said:

-spd, maybe even -dmg would be great on a slightly larger radius than the bubble.

 

I really would not want that. Repulsion Field/Force Bubble is an extremely disruptive power on teams when it's used; adding a debuff to it would just put it in a Hurricane sort of situation where you're forced to deal with that disruption in order to get the maximum benefit from the set.

[Yaliw]

I agree with Troo here. I dislike the -res component primarily because it doesn't address the elephant in the room:

 

Cold domination is better.

 

The rest of the changes to the set are cool but -res doesn't feel appropriate and is just another dimension that is comparable to cold domination.

 

An absorb feels more interesting than a tacked on -res power.

[Sir Myshkin]

1 hour ago, Troo said:

wait no Absorb anywhere?

Exactly! This is why I think it needs to be in the T9 as a critical part of its function as I proposed.

[Greycat]

Really not fond of the Force Bubble / Repulsion Field changes.

 

I use Force Bubble to reposition things.  I use it:

1. To affect things that are not affected by knockback, such as bosses, which often can be repelled just fine.

2. To reposition bad AOE immobs/holds. These *also* do not tend to resist a repel. You can gather things up again. You can move them onto burn patches, tar patches, ice patches, etc.

3. In places I do *not* want to do knockback.

4. In places I want a continuous effect (repel,) not a pulsed one (KB/KD.)

5. I use the *size* of Force Bubble to keep various dangerous things at a farther range, out of the (usually) more dangerous (to me) melee range.

 

Now, I have:

- A shorter range field, which

- Also does knockback, which I may not want in various situations (and note, I'm a proponent of using KB, because I know and want to show others *how to use it responsibly and as a benefit to the team,*) and which

- if I slot for KB->KD because of that, loses that very handy repel.

 

And yes, the 10 second recharge on force bolt is *far* too long.

[TygerDarkstorm]

45 minutes ago, The Philotic Knight said:

But, as I said, I haven't played in a while. If the Devs want to get me back to playing again, this wasn't the way to do it. But who knows, maybe more players will like it better this way. I'm just one dude.

I realize that those of us posting in these threads are but a tiny fraction of the playerbase, the general consensus thus far to the FF changes appears to be lukewarm at best. I have never been much of a Force Fields player, so I'm hesitant to test these changes since I have no real means of comparison for them on live, but from what I'm seeing from many others here whose opinions I respect, these do not seem to be the direction many players wanted FF to go, and I have to agree.

 

I wholeheartedly agree that FF should provide some sort of absorb somewhere, maybe in one of the shields applied to others? Idk, but it seems fitting (having absorb, not necessarily where I mentioned adding it). Adding the DDR component I've seen mentioned somewhere would be great too (or more of it than what they did add). The -res tacked onto Force Bolt and increasing the CD on it feels... idk if lazy is the right word... uninspired? 

 

I am of the opinion where I want powersets to have something that makes them stand out some and give you a reason for picking them. Making FF be Cold Dom Lite does not do that. I realize that not every community member suggestion is gold, but there have been some high quality suggestions that garnered a good amount of support for sets like FF that it feels weird to just see them ignored entirely.

[Tath99]

Force Bolt Comment:

 

The /fun/ of this power, for me, was always in its quick recharge / availability.  Even if you missed, it would come around again.  The knockback was its reward.

 

Suggestion:

 

Keep the power on a quick recharge.  Have the -resistance debuff stackable X times.  (Divide the intended total resist debuff by stack size.)

 

Allow the power to be used quickly.  Make a fun gameplay loop out of multiple applications of the Force Bolt.

 

(Define Force Field as a debuff capable set, but it has to work harder at it, than purer sets.)

 

Force Bubble to Dampening Bubble Comment:

 

I can understand the intention of 'hardening' the defences.  A good change.  Well done!  I have a harder time accepting the desire to dampen (apply strong debuffs) to enemies.  Was there really a call / desire for this?  What I mean to say is, many other sets apply strong debuffs,  does Force Field HAVE to join the same club?

 

Why not say, apply a +special [Impact] effect (like Gravity Control) as enemies hit within are assumed to collide with each other and the interior walls of the Bubble?  Or as an extra +special on Force Bolt striking enemies within the field?

 

A Dampening Field, doesn't feel Force Field unique, nor punchy to me.  It feels like the Force Field set matching numbers with other sets.  

 

 

Edited October 5, 2022 by Tath99
edited suggestion.

[S1TT]

I honestly feel like this set would be fixed with a strong DDR attached to its shields - would be fairly unique to forcefield thats niche was always defence buffs

 

These changes do seem positive but in respect to FF less is more I believe

Edited October 6, 2022 by S1TT

[Sir Myshkin]

Okay, I know I'm not that crazy, where did half the posts in this thread go along with the one's specifically tied to suggested changes?

[Yellowjacket]

I understand the goal is essentially to give some endgame utility to the set, but tacking on debuffs is a miss for me. If that's what we have to work with as far as dev time constraints I'll take it, but the set will end up needing another pass down the line.

 

-Force Bolt/Rep Bolt change doesn't feel right, another suggested having a smaller stacking -res (maybe on a longish duration) with the original cooldown. Force Bolt should basically always be at the ready as a bubbler. Imo it should be tested doing damage on par with a T1 attack.

 

-Repulsion Field combo I like more than I thought I would. l'd like to see it as a click psuedopet power like Dampening Bubble

 

-Force Bomb this change feels fine, I think the damage scale could remain closer to 1 without breaking anything.

 

-Dampening Bubble falls totally flat for me, especially as a T9. Some of The player buffs could be rolled into Dispersion Bubble and some of the debuffs into Force Bomb.

 

Not sure what the T9 should be without Dampening. But imo it should be an ally buff or some kind of special AoE hold. Spitballing, Something like "Force Multiplier" pbaoe click ally minor refreshing absorb and chance to deal extra smashing damage/knock - allies gain a regenerating FF exoskeleton that boosts attacks and blocks a small amount of incoming damage. Player Vfx could be borrowed from an armor set and the proc could look like a mini force bolt.

Edited October 6, 2022 by Yellowjacket

[Yellowjacket]

1 hour ago, Sir Myshkin said:

Okay, I know I'm not that crazy, where did half the posts in this thread go along with the one's specifically tied to suggested changes?

The purpose of the thread is feedback from people actively testing the changes. They've been having to go through and delete comments that belong elsewhere on the forums.

[Draeth Darkstar]

My feelings on the set as it stands:

• I will probably never take Force Bolt again. It's skippable now due to the leveling changes and the resistable single target debuff on it isn't worth a power pick IMO.
• Force Bomb is way less annoying to toss than Repulsion Bomb used to be, due to the cast time change. I could maybe see taking this on a Defender, maybe, but for anyone else the debuff is so small it's hardly worth bothering and the damage is even more trivial than it used to be on Controllers and Masterminds, which was already a low bar.
• Dispersion Bubble is a nice QOL change for quick moving teams, but doesn't really change the performance of the set in a meaningful way.
• I hated the old Force Bubble and the old Repulsion Field. I hate the new Repulsion Field slightly less than the old Force Bubble, because it's not comically enormous and unwieldy, but I still hate it. I hate every other Repel/PBAOE knock toggle too, so this is not surprising. I will still never take it, but at least it's only one dead power instead of two now.
• Dampening Field is... okay. It's miles better than Force Bubble, but anything would be. Any amount of DDR is better than none, but it would have suited the set better if it was just DDR with a better scale than the mixed bag that it is now.
• Detention Field and Personal Force Field are still both powers that I will never take.
• Overall this means Force Fields went from 3 good powers and 6 dead picks to 4 good powers, 1 very mediocre power, and 4 dead picks, from my point of view. It's still wildly outclassed by Cold and Traps which both provide best-in-class debuffs on top of defenses that are roughly equivalent, outside the niche build case of Power Boost, which I do not feel the set should be balanced around. Time runs circles around the set, but Time is contentious in its current form, so it's not the best benchmark.

I will continue to play the set for nostalgia's sake on the remake of my Bots/FF redside main from COV launch to sunset, maybe once or twice a year. I still feel it is by far the worst support set in the game, and the changes it's received do very little to elevate it. I would have much, much rather seen the set get a layered toolkit of damage mitigation types than... this. Force Fields as the king of defensive supports would have made perfect thematic sense and given the set its mechanical niche back. What it is now, I just can't find a reason to choose over... well, anything it competes with, honestly. Traps does the job of the entire set better with one power.

[Indystruck]

I don't think you need to give FF -special in Dampening Bubble. If it was just a buff patch that did +special resist and ticked up a chonky amount of absorb, it'd be fine. Maintain that identity as a buff set.

[gameboy1234]

All I got so far is Detention Field on Test is situationally useful.  Mostly solo, because otherwise it's likely to cause frustration on a team.  If nothing else it could use a much stronger visual effect so folks can tell when it's applied.

 

That's all I got.  Repulsion Field and Dampening Bubble are interesting, haven't played with them much so far.

[Alouu]

On 10/4/2022 at 10:38 PM, The Curator said:

Repulsion Field

 

• No longer drains endurance per target hit in PvE.

 

This change is safe to mirror to PvP.

[Sir Myshkin]

10 hours ago, Yellowjacket said:

The purpose of the thread is feedback from people actively testing the changes. They've been having to go through and delete comments that belong elsewhere on the forums.

The comments of mine that were removed where specifically targeted feedback, more in depth in fact than what has been left behind in this thread. This is why I brought it up because I wanted to know why they were redacted. 

[Yellowjacket]

1 hour ago, Sir Myshkin said:

specifically targeted feedback

Yeah I don't think I ever even saw what you wrote

[Gobbledigook]

Adding some damage debuff and slows to some of the powers might be thematic as enemies strive to push against the force field slowing them and lessening their damage. The damage debuff could be more substantial for Ranged attacks.

[Tath99]

Point for Consideration / IO Sets:

 

Do the proposed changes / should the proposed changes allow Force Fielders to take a wider selection of IO sets?

 

One of the previous issues with Force Field -- there was not a real incentive to invest slots into the powers to make heavy slotting of IO sets worthwhile.

 

Point for Consideration / New IO Sets:

 

Is there scope for creating new IO sets which strengthens the roles / playstyles of Force Field characters?

 

Point for Consideration / Skippable Powers:

 

Does each Force Field power stand tall as a power worth taking in its own right?  If powers are to be skippable, do the other powers offer an alternative play style?

 

 

Forgive me for raising these issues here, but I feel part of the issue of making FF great, is that the solution for making the powerset standout is more than a mere question of numbers alone.  It has always played a little different and the solution is looking at the set as a whole and from different angles.  Otherwise its flavour may be lost in an attempt to improve it.

 

 

 

[ironjoe]

Deflection Shield - Still good as always

Personal Force Field - Some people like it as an oh crap button. I would still skip it.

Force Bolt - I like the addition of -Res. Combined with the increased damage of my bots synergized well.

 

Insulation Shield - Still good as always

Detention Field - Still a niche power. I personally skip it.

Dispersion Bubble - Still great as always.

 

Repulsion Field - I always skipped Force Bubble as it was normally too large to be useful for positioning and team members with it would use it poorly 99% of the time. This iteration size is more useful for positioning. To me the old Repulsion Field is gone as I would normally stand in the middle of groups with the KB2KD slotted and watch things flop around. I'd rather keep the small repel so I just slotted for end reduction with it and used it that way.

 

Force Bomb - I would skip it before due to animation time. With reduced animation time and the added -Res I find it much more useful.

 

Dampening Bubble - I've tested it on some builds with good recharge and get the bubble down to around 30s recharge. It still feels long with a static bubble to me as I want that DDR more reliable. I still love a way to get DDR outside of Dark Affinity and Shield Defense. I still think being able to apply this DDR more reliably and at a higher value is the way to go to beat out the value of Fade. That being said I would still choose it in the current implementation and build for recharge.

[Tath99]

Bug Report:  Detention Field

 

From Test Server -- Detention Field is applied.  Detention Field flying text appears twice.  Detention Field graphic is missing.  Enemy can still be attacked but no damage is inflicted confirming Detention Field did successfully apply.

 

Feedback:  Repulsion Bolt

 

Fighting two Council robot minions in Bricks mission at default difficulty at level 32.  Using SO's.  No inspires.  Went through attack chain, including Repulsion Bolt.  Minions proceeded to knockdown my Defender Hero, who lacking sufficient recharge (in attacks or Repulsion Bolt) was defeated in short order.

 

The 10s base recharge potentially (in worst case scenario) damages or prevents Repulsion Bolt from fulfilling its purpose as a defensive power, whereas previously it could (by a second cast).

 

 

Edited October 6, 2022 by Tath99
edited bug description for clarity.