Crossing the copyright line….

[Snarky]

So someone logged into  Atlas today and shouted in broadcast “Hi I am mini-(major trademarked super).  And that was their name.  I looked over (I was next to Ms belt o’ freedom) and they were indeed about a four foot tall version of their muse.   
 

I did not report them.  I feel protective of the community but I hate politics.  (To me this is political)

 

I also figured they were probably already reported on on their way to mini generic 1755362

 

What say you? Should I have snitched?

[Frozen Burn]

I hear ya.  But this this game is only here on shaky legal semantics.  We don't need any copyright infringements around to tip the scales on the wrong side.  Copyright infringements weren't allowed during live, and current devs state the same here.  It's not "political."  It's just keeping this game safe and as protected as we can.  While yeah, reporting does suck, it is actually good for the entire community. 

 

To me (i.e. my opinion), if you care about the community - you don't create copyright infringements, and you also report those who do infringe.

[Snarky]

49 minutes ago, Frozen Burn said:

I hear ya.  But this this game is only here on shaky legal semantics.  We don't need any copyright infringements around to tip the scales on the wrong side.  Copyright infringements weren't allowed during live, and current devs state the same here.  It's not "political."  It's just keeping this game safe and as protected as we can.  While yeah, reporting does suck, it is actually good for the entire community. 

 

To me (i.e. my opinion), if you care about the community - you don't create copyright infringements, and you also report those who do infringe.

Thanks.  I know that is right.  I let myself nit do it because it was  so egregious I knew it would get reported.  But I should have as well. I feel like i already sandpaper about half the peoples skin i interact with.  Tough to smack someone else down. 
 

My own main is a straight up tribute to Max Schrek with Bela Lagosi camp. But Nosferatu is in the public domain.  Otherwise the heirs of the original producers would own about 10% of Hollywood and all of White Wolf

[Clave Dark 5]

This would raise the question of "shouldn't this name have been caught by the filter?"  We do still have a filter right?  I know there's all sorts of ways to try and get around it like the trick of using a numeral 1 for an L, etc. and the filter can't know them all...

[Snarky]

The name (i just glanced) was mini-trademark.  So maybe tacking the mini- on front on the marquee name was enough to let it slip through.  Like if you chose She-something or everyone used prawn.  ….now i am starting to think there may be more to all the shrimp references in The Good Place….

[Frozen Burn]

6 hours ago, Clave Dark 5 said:

This would raise the question of "shouldn't this name have been caught by the filter?"  We do still have a filter right?  I know there's all sorts of ways to try and get around it like the trick of using a numeral 1 for an L, etc. and the filter can't know them all...

 

It's really just a list of character names in the database that your new toon is checked against to see if it is available or not.  I have seen blatant violations of popular X-Men and DC comic heroes that you would THINK are on the list, but not.  I do know many of the in-game NPCs are on the list, but unfortunately not all are as they should be.  

 

There are SO many copyrighted heroes and villains from all genres (not just comics, but sci-fi, fantasy, mystery, etc) that it is impossible to put all names on the list.  Plus, as you said, even alternate iterations by changing Ls for 1s, or Os for 0s, or Xs in the front and back of names, and such - it is impossible to prefill the list with those.  And even more daunting is if they put "mini" or some other such moniker with the copyrighted name, like they did in this instance - no way the name-check system would catch it.  

 

So, that is why reporting any and new infractions and iterations is important - it's just one more name that gets added to the list to help protect this game we love so much.  Yes, a drop in the bucket, but with every drop, we get closer to filling it.  

[Frozen Burn]

5 hours ago, Snarky said:

The name (i just glanced) was mini-trademark.  So maybe tacking the mini- on front on the marquee name was enough to let it slip through.  Like if you chose She-something or everyone used prawn.  ….now i am starting to think there may be more to all the shrimp references in The Good Place….

 

I literally just got done binging "The Good Place" yesterday - I got your reference!!  Woo hoo!!  😄  ....not that me saying this has any bearing on anything.  

[lemming]

Is the name "White Chocolate Shrimp"  taken yet?

 

I don't tend to report any names unless the character is definitely crossing some of my own personal lines. I did get my "Helter Skeletor" genericed, though that seemed to be caught by a program sweep since I hadn't played the char for a bit, then got the notice that had happened.  So by that, I got a little confused on what was permitted and figured it would sort itself out if someone was being a bit too loud about it.  Hard to tell between fair use, homage, and outright violations, and the GMs do have to have wiggle room, hence the not quite clear guidelines.

[Techwright]

On 1/1/2023 at 2:58 PM, lemming said:

Is the name "White Chocolate Shrimp"  taken yet?

Two great tastes that ...sound disgusting together.

 

I'll report, and have reported anything that shows clear violation.  As others have said, it's about preservation.  That said, back in the OG, very, very early on, I had a character which was blatantly Green Hornet.  I loved the character, what can I say?  But I was also new to MMOs and legal wrangling was far from my puny mind.  A firm but kind player stopped me and stated that I was violating the game laws.  Was I embarrassed?  Absolutely.  Was I frustrated that I couldn't play as a favorite character. Yes indeed.  But I deleted that character, and instead played a new character with many of the same moves.  He became Ace Barnstormer, one of my favorites.  I say all this to say that I actually thank the person that stopped me.  So far as I know, I was never reported, and being forced to change brought my creative side forward resulting in a better character.  Who knows?  It might do the same for current players.

[TheZag]

This looks like a job for....

 

 

CopyrightInfringementMan !!

[UltraAlt]

15 minutes ago, TheZag said:

This looks like a job for....

 

 

CopyrightInfringementMan !!

 

Holy Composite Jedi Avenger X-man!

 

.... not to be confused with the ....

 

[Ukase]

On 1/1/2023 at 12:15 AM, Snarky said:

What say you? Should I have snitched?

Me, I would have reported them - but not because it was a copyright issue, but because they were too lazy to come up with something on their own. 
I can get behind an homage type of situation, but a mini-HeroName isn't exactly in the same frame. 

 

[Sir Myshkin]

If it's just a costume I'll generally just go about my business, especially on Everlasting. There's a much higher chance of running into someone doing an homage or RP related thing with likeness and what not. If it's a case of full-blown "Look At Me!" then I'll give them a courtesy warning to step out of the game and take care of things then and there. On the rare occasion I'll see the retort of "It's a free game I'll do whatever I want." That gets them a full report with chat dialogue, and we all know where that account is going.

[UltraAlt]

 

[jdaddy15911]

Tbh, I have a toon dressed in white with a beard and long hair with a halo over his head that runs around healing people and raising them from the dead, and his name is Jeshua Cristo. I guess I’m not the only one who lacks imagination.

[Bionic_Flea]

I tend to not report copyright stuff as much as conduct stuff.  And I used to do it a lot more on live than here.  Not sure if there is less to report or I've gotten more tolerant, but you do you, Snarky.

[GM Impervium]

I suppose this is a good excuse as any to point out that, reportedly, Disney is going on a suing spree against trademark infringers on etsy, facebook market, etc.

 

It's a different situation (people making money off goods they made featuring Disney's characters), but a reminder as to why we really can't be too careful. So, please do report anything that so much as approaches the line.

 

That isn't to say that we will always punish/genericize these characters. Any edge case is reviewed by multiple GMs, and we come to a concensus before taking action. So don't worry about being "that guy" and ruining someone's day. We'll shoulder that reponsibility, we just need the heads up =)

[Shred Monkey]

I report when I see this because of the "protect the game" aspect.  But I also don't feel bad that someone is going to get generic'd for lack of creativity.  I see TV/movie characters or concepts that inspire me to make a costume or character all the time.  But I still want to make that character my own by adding my own spin to it.  For example, I've often tried to create a nightcrawler like character who fights like the opening scene to X-Men 2.  But I just use dark color schemes with teleports and acrobatic looking kicks... the costumes look nothing like nightcrawler and I don't copy the name.

 

I also understand the appeal of trying to build a perfect replica of a costume.  But I wouldn't play that costume in game.

[TheZag]

2 hours ago, GM Impervium said:

I suppose this is a good excuse as any to point out that, reportedly, Disney is going on a suing spree against trademark infringers on etsy, facebook market, etc.

 

It's a different situation (people making money off goods they made featuring Disney's characters), but a reminder as to why we really can't be too careful. So, please do report anything that so much as approaches the line.

 

To expand on this a bit...

 

Disney sued an elementary school fundraiser because they played a Disney film for the kids during the event.  I believe they sued for an amount in excess of what was even earned in the fundraiser.  Bad publicity got them to reverse course and they ended up giving a donation to the fundraiser.  But its wasnt even about the money.

 

Entities that believe their property is being infringed on are almost required to sue in order to prove the property hasnt been abandoned - even if they arent seeking monetary damages.  Ever heard of name brand Asprin or escalators?  Those were both names that were lost because the companies didnt properly protect their brand.  They became generic and freely usable in the public domain.

 

I dont expect the mouse to take notice of what we have going on but with their continual purchases of sci-fi, fantasy, and comic franchises,  we dont need to poke them either.

 

[Ironblade]

14 hours ago, TheZag said:

This looks like a job for....

 

 

CopyrightInfringementMan !!

 

Sure, you laugh.  But Combo Man isn't laughing about it.

 

[TheZag]

56 minutes ago, Ironblade said:

 

Sure, you laugh.  But Combo Man isn't laughing about it.

 

 

I might come home to GenericMan but he is loosely inspired by this.  I had the idea of how many characters could i represent in a single costume, so i did some searches.  I think he is sufficiently different in name and appearance.  Even though i came up with the idea on my own,  it did already exist in some form.

 

Edited January 5, 2023 by TheZag

[Ironblade]

Thank goodness you're here, Darth Gokuverine!

[Herotu]

To be frank, my belief is that Copywrong shouldn't last anything like as long as it does. They just keep lobbying governments to extend and extend it, long after the original creative is dead. How on earth can they possibly justify that?! It's bullshit. They've had more than their effort's worth out of that Copywrong. It should have worn off long ago.

 

With that in mind, I would not only refrain from reporting them, but copy them in sympathy (and irony). See how they like it.

[biostem]

11 minutes ago, Herotu said:

To be frank, my belief is that Copywrong shouldn't last anything like as long as it does.

I don't disagree.

 

12 minutes ago, Herotu said:

They just keep lobbying governments to extend and extend it, long after the original creative is dead. How on earth can they possibly justify that?! It's bullshit.

I agree that the first part is wrong/bad.  That being said, companies do continue to exist and utilize copyrights/trademarks well after the respective creator passes away.  I don't think we should only consider the life of the original creator, especially if they created said IP *for* or as a result of that company's resources.  Of course, there should be a reasonable point at which said trademark/copyright expires, but a balance needs to be struck.

 

17 minutes ago, Herotu said:

With that in mind, I would not only refrain from reporting them, but copy them in sympathy (and irony). See how they like it.

I'm unclear if your use of "them" and "they" that you bolded are referencing the same person, but keep in mind that if some big corp were to come after Homecoming for such a violation, it would most likely be we the players that suffer.  I concede it's not a likely scenario, but you should consider who you are actually punishing with your actions...

[srmalloy]

1 hour ago, Herotu said:

To be frank, my belief is that Copywrong shouldn't last anything like as long as it does. They just keep lobbying governments to extend and extend it, long after the original creative is dead.

You can blame Disney and the Mickey Mouse Perpetual Protection Act Sonny Bono Copyright Extension Act. I don't know how the argument would hold up in court, but the way that changes to the term of copyright have been applied retroactively to works already created and under copyright would seem to me to be a violation of Article 1, § 9 and 10, which prohibit Congress and the states from passing any law that applies ex post facto. Under this reasoning, there is no impediment to passing a law extending the term of copyright, but the term of copyright for already published works wouldn't change -- if you publish a work when the copyright term is 28 years, extendible for another 28 years, then a year later Congress passes a law extending copyright to 1000 years, your work still enters the public domain a maximum of 56 years after publication.