Focused Feedback: Storm Blast

[Vanden]

2 minutes ago, biostem said:

No, it has a repel effect.  The knockdown is part of the special effect while the enemy is within a storm cell.

 

5 minutes ago, WindDemon21 said:

Again, the power does knockback, it SHOULD take kb sets. Especially given the sudden acceleration would hinder the repel and not force you to use the OF proc in it. Please fix this.

 

Oy, the two of you! It does take knockback sets. This is why you test things in-game before you give feedback.

[Booper]

18 minutes ago, PoptartsNinja said:

I still hate that the only way to turn off the repel is a unique IO. Sudden Acceleration would shut the repel off too if the power took knockback sets

It does take KB sets

[PoptartsNinja]

9 minutes ago, Booper said:

It does take KB sets

 

Oh hey. Complaint rescinded!

[High_Beam]

Here's some focused feedback for the people wanting knockback or repel removed or changed to KD or whatever . . . just because you don't like the mechanic doesn't mean it needs to be removed.

 

Its wind and storms and having been through several category 3 Hurricanes and a Severe Typhoon on a flat bottomed amphibious assault ship, things don't get knocked down, they get blown off the deck, like helicopters snapping chocks and chains.  How about letting a themed power set actually have a theme vice just being a reskinned version of something else.

[Lazarillo]

My general thought just from looking is that Storm Cell's recharge is too long, given the general way the set seems built around it.  I feel like a faster recharge, but with summoning a cell replacing an existing one (a la Faraday Cage) would be more appropriate.  It would also keep the set's main filler AoE more consistently useful.

 

I'm also somewhat dubious on all the -End, since End drain wasn't good enough for Electrical Blast, why add it here without actually giving it the same benefit Elec Blast gets too?

Edited April 6, 2023 by Lazarillo

[twozerofoxtrot]

2 hours ago, WindDemon21 said:

Please at least do this @GM Impervium

 

Sir, this is a Wendy's and GMs are not Devs. They don't change anything. 

 

They are just here to moderate the discussion. 

[ScarySai]

 

I opt to not use storms/the nuke as much as I normally would to properly showcase the set.

[WindDemon21]

20 minutes ago, ScarySai said:

 

I opt to not use storms/the nuke as much as I normally would to properly showcase the set.

Ooooo she pretty

[@Ghost]

Messed around with it on a /martial Blaster, /storm Corruptor, and /bio Sent to try and get a feel overall.

 

Presentation wise it's very impressive, effects and especially sound design is great. It seems like Storm Cell doesn't take custom colors? I'm not sure if it has to do with the pseudo pet, but I set the colors to all purple on the Sentinel and noticed pretty frequently that it had the default white/grey rain color.

 

Performance-wise it felt very middle of the road. I put up a 7m Trapdoor time with the Sent (compared to a 5m50s with Water/Bio post Sentinel revamp) and the real killer was (obviously) the ST damage that was lacking for bosses. I'll say the AOE feels very good when you get it going, but going full mayhem mode with the Corruptor exacerbated a lot of the "set up" time for the set. Trying to reposition Storm Cell and C5 onto spawns to open strong and get the full synergy with the rest of the set feels very sluggish for an opener with two 2s+ casts back to back. Best as I can, Storm Cell has a pseudopet like Carrion Creepers that keeps trying to follow you, but in a similar way it feels unreliable and visually there's just so much going on that it's almost impossible to discern if the effect is keeping up with me or not.

 

End costs were also consistently an issue, even on Bio Armor (+2 perf shifters, Panacea, and Numina's) and on the Blaster build where I didn't dip out of the set much. I guess it's to be expected with pretty rapidfire AOE.

 

Overall, pretty cool. I'm sure most of the weaknesses are intentional, and despite the shortcomings I still had a lot of fun just messing around with it.

[Sir Myshkin]

1 hour ago, ScarySai said:

 

I opt to not use storms/the nuke as much as I normally would to properly showcase the set.

[Captain Fabulous]

<snip>

Edited April 17, 2023 by Captain Fabulous

[Skyfawker]

Messed around with it for a bit. I found it hard to notice where Storm Cell is since it likes to follow mobs and yourself like a pet. Maybe a ground indicator like the martial combat, initial reaction, ground effect but slightly minimised and reversed like the force is going outwards. I really love the snipe animation. I hope it gets proliferated but I understand it won't be for thematic reasons.

 

Edit: There seems to be puddles or splashes at the ground of Storm Cell

Edited April 6, 2023 by Skyfawker

[Sovera]

7 hours ago, biostem said:

The setting was listed as "Alpha", but I can see it now, thank you.

 

For those not wanting to go through all of that, here's the details:

 

90 sec recharge

25' radius

Storm Cell lasts for 60 sec

 

 

90 seconds recharge for such a crucial power is too long. Just like lasting 60 seconds serves no purpose. Which fight lasts 60 seconds other than an AV fight? It ought to be at least like Seeds of Confusion or others at 60 seconds so we cannot spam it but it is available at every group. Then it lasts for 30 seconds which is about right for both solo and mop everything and in teams does not matter much. With this the power no longer needs to follow anyone.

 

In any sort of regular team the linchpin of the set is either going to be available every two groups or the player will decide whether to use it when most of the second group is dead.

 

Does this matter if most of the second group is dead? Only in terms of spreadsheets, but the set already lacks a nuke with a DoT style T9.

[WindDemon21]

3 hours ago, Sovera said:

 

90 seconds recharge for such a crucial power is too long. Just like lasting 60 seconds serves no purpose. Which fight lasts 60 seconds other than an AV fight? It ought to be at least like Seeds of Confusion or others at 60 seconds so we cannot spam it but it is available at every group. Then it lasts for 30 seconds which is about right for both solo and mop everything and in teams does not matter much. With this the power no longer needs to follow anyone.

 

In any sort of regular team the linchpin of the set is either going to be available every two groups or the player will decide whether to use it when most of the second group is dead.

 

Does this matter if most of the second group is dead? Only in terms of spreadsheets, but the set already lacks a nuke with DoT style T9.

This is one of my main worries. The long nuke is bad for reasons I already explained.

 

And the storm cell, I can already tell needs to have a better recharge than 90 seconds. Especially as it's not even an attack but just does debuff and "sets up". It seems like the follow mechanic will be too slow like creepers always is. It would be better to just lower the recharge time to like 30 seconds (and cast time to 1s) so we can place it ourselves where we want every mob and replace itself when cast similar to how glue arrow/Disruption Arrow works now.

 

The 90s recharge time also means you have to pointlessly waste recharge in it just for a set up power. 90s in a blast set is almost nuke-level recharge in just a small debuff/set up power?, just bad.

 

It also seems really odd in a blast set to have to set it up but it doesn't actually do damage. This seems more like a support set power not something that should be in a blast set.

Edited April 6, 2023 by WindDemon21

[Marshal_General]

I would kind of like it to work like Faraday Cage where it has a long duration/short recharge and you recast it to move it.

[Dispari]

Very good suggestion. Given the whole set revolves around the Storm Cell, and it doesn't do damage or aggro on its own, it should be the sort of thing you can move around at will.

[Wravis]

10 hours ago, High_Beam said:

Here's some focused feedback for the people wanting knockback or repel removed or changed to KD or whatever . . . just because you don't like the mechanic doesn't mean it needs to be removed.

 

When the whole playerbase  (except for contrarians) dislikes something it's probably not a good thing to keep in the game.

[Dispari]

Here are my thoughts on Storm and why the repel is a bad decision.

First of all, the nature of AoE repel/knockback causes enemy scatter. You can see here how it causes the enemies to move away from the caster, meaning they become more spread out than they were before. This is just bad for AoEs in general and bad for teaming, and the main thing everyone hates about KB in the first place.



Now, I understand why the repel is there. It's to push people into Storm Cell (and Category Five). But I think that's a solution to an entirely different problem, which is that the set is very reliant on Storm Cell but it can be difficult to make sure everyone is in it. The recharge time is long, and it's not clear where the border of the power is. Like here, is the border this part? How many dummies are in it? The rain is touching the left one but the vague bubbles on the ground only sometimes touch the left one... is this guy in or out?



The solution of pushing people into it is novel but... not very well done. You can't easily control the trajectory or distance of the push, and you might push people you don't mean to, or really just waste a lot of time trying to push enemies around instead of actually killing them. It might be something better accomplished with a single target repel. Or, solve the problem in another way, like making it much easier and snappier to reposition Storm Cell, instead of trying to wrangle mobs.

And yes, you can turn off the repel with an IO (tested and confirmed, you get an occasional KD instead). But I think that's just admitting that the repel is a problem in the first place and needs to be "fixed." If you look at set design around the end of the game, the devs had learned that AoE KB is a problem. They stopped designing sets with it. OF came out around the same time as Water Blast, which has knockDOWN (and knockup), not knockback in its AoEs, without needing to slot any special IOs to "fix" it.

I think there are other problems with the set of course. The AoE is light and random as you rely on procs to go off, and the nuke ramps up slowly. It just doesn't feel like a set designed to work in the current meta. It feels anemic for how long it takes for things to get going and by then the team has moved on and your contribution was minimal. The nuke struggles to kill even blue minions in a timely manner, and buffs from Build Up or Intensify wear off before it gets around to doing reasonable damage. And goes back to the problem of it being an immobile effect people need to stay in which generates the "need" for a repel. The set generates novel problems for itself that need to be solved when other sets just... work.

I do like the visuals and animations though. And the way the set has a combination of damage types and secondary effects for diverse slotting. And the fact that Storm Cell doesn't aggro which is key for positioning and setup.

(Also is it permanently night on the beta server right now? Sorry I can't get any brighter screenshots but I sat around waiting for daylight for over 30 minutes in two different zones)

[ScarySai]

@Sovera Shorter duration on cell was tested, take my word for it, it wasn't good.

[WindDemon21]

24 minutes ago, ScarySai said:

@Sovera Shorter duration on cell was tested, take my word for it, it wasn't good.

Not duration, shorter recharge. (And cast/end) and remove the follow effect. It should work like glue/Disruption Arrow allowing you to place where and when you need it.

[Captain Fabulous]

<snip>

Edited April 17, 2023 by Captain Fabulous

[Wravis]

4 minutes ago, Captain Fabulous said:

OMG all you people bitching and moaning about the repel need to stop. GO PLAY IT BEFORE YOU COMPLAIN.

Storm Cell follows you around like Carrion Creepers. It doesn't need a shorter duration or recharge. It works fine. You would know this IF YOU ACTUALLY PLAYED THE SET.

You're assuming no one has tested it.

People are literally posting pictures of their test, to demonstrate why it's a bad mechanic.

[Captain Fabulous]

<snip>

Edited April 17, 2023 by Captain Fabulous

[Wravis]

Just now, Captain Fabulous said:

Except they've admitted they haven't.

Every single person in this thread who has said repel sucks has admitted they haven't tested it?

I've tested it. Repel is bad. Repel sucks.

[ScarySai]

16 minutes ago, WindDemon21 said:

Not duration, shorter recharge. (And cast/end) and remove the follow effect. It should work like glue/Disruption Arrow allowing you to place where and when you need it.

 

One does not change without the other, sadly. 

 

On another note, instead of flooding the threads with assumptions and piggybacking others, do some playtesting.

Edited April 6, 2023 by ScarySai