Homecoming player count: a year in review

[Herotu]

On 8/11/2023 at 9:36 PM, Without_Pause said:

Read the room. You're quoting something from 6 days ago.

"Read the room" means to consider what everybody around you is thinking. I don't think that makes sense in this context.

 

Thanks for reminding me about the quotation period tho, I understand the latest posts are back on topic, but I wanted to talk about the other thing, and so I did. FREEDUMB!

Edited November 13, 2023 by Herotu

[Lady Victory - The Watch]

I've been curious about how City of Heroes Homecoming (HC) feels about promotional content since the licensing by NCSoft. I remember that back in the day, making videos to support and advertise the server was not allowed. However, given the recent licensing, I wonder if their stance has changed. I have a background in marketing and understand that this sort of promotion can really help communities flourish. Does anyone know if HC is now open to these kinds of efforts? I'd love to try to breathe some new life into the community and get the word out if it's encouraged.

As far as this:
 

  

On 8/5/2023 at 2:48 PM, macskull said:

I'm sure you didn't intend it, but your entire post is a great argument for doing away with the name release policy altogether.

 

You say I am "part of the problem" (but conveniently ignored the part of my post where I said I'd let someone have a name if they asked for it) but no one's been able to demonstrate that there is even a problem in the first place. The name release policy was announced in May 2019 with the intention of being implemented within a few weeks of that announcement, but here we are over four years later and we've only recently implemented the "warning" phase. Why? The team wanted to make absolutely sure they did it right so no one lost names accidentally. That should tell you how attached players are to their character names or, at least, how attached the HC team presumes them to be.

 

I don't think a character-based login timer is the right way to go. I could have a low level character that I only play rarely because the group I play with only gets together one or two nights every few months. I could primarily focus my attention on two or three characters while having a much larger number that I play less often, but that doesn't mean I want the names of those other characters to suddenly get snatched up by someone else.

 

Account activity is probably the way to go, if the policy is actually implemented in the first place. Now that being said (and this is anecdotal evidence, so take it how you will) I occasionally see posts on the forum or on Discord about how someone is returning to Homecoming after not having played in years. I know if I was someone who'd played for a while, left for whatever reason, and came back a couple years down the line to find all my characters had had their names taken, I probably wouldn't bother continuing to play. I haven't really seen a good argument for a name release policy other than "I want a name someone else already has." You can't really make an argument from a cost or database size perspective, since that character occupies what is basically a single entry in a database which ends up being essentially meaningless in the grand scale of the entire game.

 

As far as how other games have handled name release for inactivity, I'll present two examples: City of Heroes during its original run and WoW.

 

City of Heroes:

• The original version of the policy came out about a year and a half after launch in late 2005. Players with inactive accounts, where "inactive" was considered "unpaid for at least 90 days," had names released (among other things like removing SG membership) if the character was under level 35. Maintaining a paid subscription, even if you didn't log in, prevented this from happening.
• The original policy lasted about six months before it was stopped.
• The policy was brought back in late 2007, but only affected characters level 5 and under.
• Both versions of the policy were enforced via a script manually run during server maintenance, but this was an infrequent occurrence.
• The aforementioned script was only ever run twice, because the development team decided the policy didn't free up an appreciable number of names.
• While the name release policy technically continued to exist even after the game went F2P, it was never enforced for the reasons I mentioned above.

WoW:

• I don't know what the original policy was, or if there even was one, but as of 2018 if your account hadn't been active for two expansions or four years, whichever came sooner, names were released for all your characters.
• At some point between 2018 and 2022 that policy changed and now only requires your account to be inactive for two years before releasing all character names.

The problem is on everlasting there are numerous people with 4-5 accounts hoarding thousands upon thousands of names. I know this sounds ridiculous, but I've seen it myself. "Name Collecting" has become a pastime for people over on Everlasting.

Edited August 2 by Lady Victory - The Watch

[Triumphant]

Quote

The problem is on everlasting there are numerous people with 4-5 accounts hoarding thousands upon thousands of names. I know this sounds ridiculous, but I've seen it myself. "Name Collecting" has become a pastime for people over on Everlasting.

 

I'm neither agreeing or disagreeing.  For all I know,  you could be right.  I'm just wondering how you've been able to see these different accounts with the thousands and thousands of names. I can't see anyone's accounts but my own (not that I've tried to examine anyone else's accounts:  1) I wouldn't know how to do it and 2) It's none of my business).

[BurtHutt]

Regarding name hoarding - long ago I suggested not giving out 1000 slots per account. Start with 50. Then after 6 months, auto release another 50 and so on. The numbers can vary etc but the idea was my suggestion.

 

Sure, you can still do multiple accounts but this limit may actually deter a bit of hoarding.

 

The population boomed for a bit (relatively speaking) but now it's come back down. I think a lot of nostalgia types visited, got their fill and left. Who knows. 

 

I also think it would be cool for players to make promo vids. I always watched the player ones from Live and the Dev stuff. I think the player that did a lot of good work went by the handle Saumuriko(?). Or something like that. Great stuff there.

 

Some players can do some brilliant stuff. It's why I have and will continue to push the HC Devs to make the A.E. v. 2.0 where players are leveraged to make game content that is added to the actual game and made canon. My struggle goes on! 4 years and still fighting! lol

[Ukase]

23 hours ago, Lady Victory - The Watch said:

The problem is on everlasting there are numerous people with 4-5 accounts hoarding thousands upon thousands of names.

If you know this with certainty to be true. Let's publicly shame them. It'll be fun! 


And I am kind of kidding. We all have 1000 slots and supposedly can make as many accounts as we want, as long as we don't have more than three on a single shard at a time when population count is below 1500 on that shard.
(to be clear:  Excelsior is a server. Everlasting is a server, etc. We got used to thinking like this, because I think on retail, each shard was on its own server. Or maybe some of us were always using the wrong term. No idea. But in this context, server = shard) 

While we can shame someone who hoards names, where do we draw that line? I also have 2 names that I've placed on a level 1 waiting for the right time to begin playing them. Just 2. Not thousands. But if they have to lose all theirs, I'd lose my two. And while life would go on, it would be one silly name I'd not get to play and that would be unfortunate for me. 
And, well, publicly shaming is probably not that far removed from bullying and should not be done. 

I'm sure if we think about it carefully, we can find a better solution - and for now, the solution is set the name policy up, just not enforce it yet. Maybe we come up with something more clever later. 

I do understand the disappointment of creating a kitten character, and then choosing the powersets, and actually trying to kittenize the character in the costume creator, only to realize that Chairman Meow has already been taken! And I had a lot of propaganda fun little quotes to use, already lined up! Probably for the best I can't have it. I'm a strong believer in the market, and I'm not sure I would be able to stomach Chairman Meow and his propaganda for long. 

[Triumphant]

Quote

Probably for the best I can't have it. I'm a strong believer in the market, and I'm not sure I would be able to stomach Chairman Meow and his propaganda for long. 

 

Chairman Meow is most disappointed in your lack of loyalty to the CCP (Cat Communist Party), citizen.  You should be advised that there will most certainly be an investigation into this matter. 😾

 

P.S.  Personally, I think the issue is less people making thousands of accounts simply to hoard names and more that lots of players create characters to try the game (or to try certain powersets), then abandoned the game and/or the characters, and the names are just sort of floating in limbo.  I have no data to support this theory, it's just my instinctual suspicion.  🤷‍♂️

Edited August 3 by Triumphant

[Oubliette_Red]

On 8/2/2024 at 8:27 AM, Lady Victory - The Watch said:

I've been curious about how City of Heroes Homecoming (HC) feels about promotional content since the licensing by NCSoft. I remember that back in the day, making videos to support and advertise the server was not allowed. However, given the recent licensing, I wonder if their stance has changed. I have a background in marketing and understand that this sort of promotion can really help communities flourish. Does anyone know if HC is now open to these kinds of efforts? I'd love to try to breathe some new life into the community and get the word out if it's encouraged.

As far as this:
 

  

The problem is on everlasting there are numerous people with 4-5 accounts hoarding thousands upon thousands of names. I know this sounds ridiculous, but I've seen it myself. "Name Collecting" has become a pastime for people over on Everlasting.

 

Regarding the posting of CoH videos:

 

Code of Conduct: Video & Streaming policy for all the verbiage. The ToS reiterates the same, don't post videos that violate the ToS or CoC and must not be behind a pay wall.

 

 

[Lady Victory - The Watch]

On 8/3/2024 at 10:07 AM, Triumphant said:

 

Chairman Meow is most disappointed in your lack of loyalty to the CCP (Cat Communist Party), citizen.  You should be advised that there will most certainly be an investigation into this matter. 😾

 

P.S.  Personally, I think the issue is less people making thousands of accounts simply to hoard names and more that lots of players create characters to try the game (or to try certain powersets), then abandoned the game and/or the characters, and the names are just sort of floating in limbo.  I have no data to support this theory, it's just my instinctual suspicion.  🤷‍♂️

Nah, I can verify I know at least one player who has over 3k names, self admittedly, for name collection purposes. It is a thing people do, unfortunately.

These are mostly characters they have no desire to play, it's a bit like action figure collecting for them. While I can appreciate hobbies, it's a bit selfish in my opinion, so name freeing is still something we absolutely need, especially with how long the server's been running, and how many characters have been abandoned over the years.

Edited August 4 by Lady Victory - The Watch

[Triumphant]

2 hours ago, Lady Victory - The Watch said:

Nah, I can verify I know at least one player who has over 3k names, self admittedly, for name collection purposes. It is a thing people do, unfortunately.

These are mostly characters they have no desire to play, it's a bit like action figure collecting for them. While I can appreciate hobbies, it's a bit selfish in my opinion, so name freeing is still something we absolutely need, especially with how long the server's been running, and how many characters have been abandoned over the years.

Well, if you have any sway with them, try to convince them to release at least some of the names they aren't using.  I agree with you that's a bit of a douchebaggy thing to do and not the reason the Devs provide us with 1000 character slots per account.

[Lady Victory - The Watch]

2 hours ago, Triumphant said:

Well, if you have any sway with them, try to convince them to release at least some of the names they aren't using.  I agree with you that's a bit of a douchebaggy thing to do and not the reason the Devs provide us with 1000 character slots per account.

I've tried, believe me. They're very, very smug about it. 
It's incredibly common over on everlasting to just make tons of accounts and grab every name you can. 

For myself? If someone reaches out for a name, and I'm not using it, I'll give it to 'em and even send them the costume file.

[Without_Pause]

That's a lot of names to keep active. More so considering my guess is they could get those names at a later point 99.9% of the time. Some of my biggest surprises for names have been the ones I get as of late. Hell, I've made 60-70 characters or whatever it is for HC, and there's just one name I wasn't able to get which I'm mad about and that's just because I couldn't get it on a new server. They had it on the server I started on. What happens if they experience burnout and just need a break from the game? Anytime I come back after a break, I delete characters. I would rather play the characters I genuinely enjoy in the time I have to play the game. It's just weird how people buy into what I call 'the economy of someday. ' 'I need this name because someday I might play that character.' Spoiler alert, you didn't. I moved the one character to a new server post name change, and once in a while I would check to see if that name was available on my old server. It took years to get taken.

[Ukase]

On 8/3/2024 at 10:07 AM, Triumphant said:

 

Chairman Meow is most disappointed in your lack of loyalty to the CCP (Cat Communist Party), citizen.  You should be advised that there will most certainly be an investigation into this matter. 😾

 

P.S.  Personally, I think the issue is less people making thousands of accounts simply to hoard names and more that lots of players create characters to try the game (or to try certain powersets), then abandoned the game and/or the characters, and the names are just sort of floating in limbo.  I have no data to support this theory, it's just my instinctual suspicion.  🤷‍♂️

lol, I look forward to the results of the investigation! 

So, as to names floating in limbo, you're probably correct. Generally, when I come up with a name I want to use and discover someone else is using it, if I don't recognize the global name, I send them a tell and ask them to reply that they're still using it. I've yet to hear back from anyone, except one other player. This is probably about 1 out of 30 or so. I probably should have kept track, but I didn't. So, take it with a large grain of salt. Could be they never played again, or it could be they never saw the tell, or it could be they got distracted and forgot. No way to know. 
 

[Glacier Peak]

1 minute ago, Ukase said:

lol, I look forward to the results of the investigation! 

So, as to names floating in limbo, you're probably correct. Generally, when I come up with a name I want to use and discover someone else is using it, if I don't recognize the global name, I send them a tell and ask them to reply that they're still using it. I've yet to hear back from anyone, except one other player. This is probably about 1 out of 30 or so. I probably should have kept track, but I didn't. So, take it with a large grain of salt. Could be they never played again, or it could be they never saw the tell, or it could be they got distracted and forgot. No way to know. 

When I try out a name and find out it's taken, I say to myself I must not be that creative and I try to come up with something even better. 

[seebs]

On 8/4/2024 at 8:10 PM, Lady Victory - The Watch said:

I've tried, believe me. They're very, very smug about it. 
It's incredibly common over on everlasting to just make tons of accounts and grab every name you can.[/quote]

So, you've identified one example, and you say it's "incredibly common"? I haven't heard of this happening previously. It doesn't feel very common.

 

Edited August 15 by seebs
fix formatting

[Rishidian]

I've been watching the Name Release arguments for a couple years.  There are some great reasons for releasing hoarded names (the processes suggested are rather interesting), and the reasons against releasing hoarded names are equally compelling.  Whatever practice is in place can be easily abused, and is usually used as an argument against the other side. 

 

As for me, I don't really care one way or the other.  I don't have hundreds of characters, and I make it a practice to log on to the one that hasn't been used the longest.  The argument that seems to be  the strongest, in my opinion, is, releasing unused names will not solve the problem.  There is nothing that shows the hoarded names are, in fact, names in demand.  We just assume they are, because it appears to make sense.

 

I believe this issue is at a low priority to the HC Devs because: Who want to get in the middle of that fight?  They probably have more pressing issues to deal with, and I will not attempt to compel them into this.  I also believe requesting a name to be released is the best direction, though probably the least fruitful.

 

As was said before, be creative and come up with a better name.  It's more personalized to you, and will be more valuable.  And you would be welcome to hoard it, or relinquish it upon request - however you may want to handle it.

[Ukase]

On 8/4/2024 at 3:14 PM, Lady Victory - The Watch said:

and how many characters have been abandoned over the years

Well, I still play, and even on my own accounts, I have to admit to some characters being abandoned, and relegated to the back "page".  Once a week, at least, I'm going through and simply doing a couple of respecs and deleting these characters I'm certain I'll never play again. The problem I'm having is - I've no room left in my bases for the enhancements - and I don't want to make another base. That's why I'm only doing it once a week. I'm making a new character to use the soon to be discarded enhancements via unslotters, as opposed to a mass dump from a respec. 

Unfortunately for all of you - I'm just giving the names to the new characters I'm making. But, at least I'm not using up new names that I might think up that you might also come up with. 

[Without_Pause]

2 hours ago, Ukase said:

Well, I still play, and even on my own accounts, I have to admit to some characters being abandoned, and relegated to the back "page".  Once a week, at least, I'm going through and simply doing a couple of respecs and deleting these characters I'm certain I'll never play again. The problem I'm having is - I've no room left in my bases for the enhancements - and I don't want to make another base. That's why I'm only doing it once a week. I'm making a new character to use the soon to be discarded enhancements via unslotters, as opposed to a mass dump from a respec. 

Unfortunately for all of you - I'm just giving the names to the new characters I'm making. But, at least I'm not using up new names that I might think up that you might also come up with. 

At one point I had a lowbie grab enough enhancements to fill all of their AH slots and more from my bins as I figured they were just sitting there not really getting used anyway. The amount of actual on-hand enhancements is honestly really small. If I get a purple drop, I craft it, and sell it. The AH is more and more becoming my 'storage.'

 

I switch around names if I feel like keeping it. I think I have room for one more switch. I'm continuing what might be my biggest purge yet. I don't think I can get down to 30 on my main account though. I could get lower than what I will likely end up with, but some characters are being kept because I like something about them too much compared how much I might like their performance. This is about as content as I have been with my roster. 

[Lady Victory - The Watch]

On 8/8/2024 at 7:26 PM, seebs said:

 

sorry bro can't hear you outside of the quote box.

But anyway nah for real I mean, that was the best example, you want me to list like, all of them? Weird flex but okay.

[Gerswin Jr]

I gobbled.up all of the lemon yogurt enema firework themed names on excelsior.

[Greycat]

On 8/2/2024 at 8:27 AM, Lady Victory - The Watch said:

The problem is on everlasting there are numerous people with 4-5 accounts hoarding thousands upon thousands of names. I know this sounds ridiculous, but I've seen it myself. "Name Collecting" has become a pastime for people over on Everlasting.

 

I honestly have a hard time believing this is actually going on to *this* extent. "Numerous people" with "thousands" of names?

 

Granted, I can admit to having several accounts on live with names I never used... because of the SG grant they did once... and all the names were things like MBSGG1-001. Strangely nobody ever asked for them. But it still was "a lot of names."

 

And peeking at Atlas Park on EL right now shows lowbies with perfectly fine names, no "tricks" to them. (As in non of the I for L, 0 for o, random numbers or punctuation.) (Correction - I see one. But it's both a fairly obvious name, and one that *might* be copyright blocked, as it's also the name of a Battletech 'mech.) And this is fairly typical when I hop into Atlas over there.

 

So if there are "thousands" of names being held by a few people... it doesn't seem to really be having an effect on others making characters.

[Mopery]

6 minutes ago, Greycat said:

So if there are "thousands" of names being held by a few people... it doesn't seem to really be having an effect on others making characters.

I have a feeling that these taken names are a list of the same exact 50ish names that literally thousands of players will claim to have some ownership of, names which are far too common no doubt.

Edited August 15 by Mopery
Punctuality.

[Ironblade]

On 8/14/2024 at 9:34 PM, Greycat said:

Granted, I can admit to having several accounts on live with names I never used... because of the SG grant they did once... and all the names were things like MBSGG1-001. Strangely nobody ever asked for them. But it still was "a lot of names."

 

OMG I remember that.  And we only had 12 character slots per server.  I created over 600 characters across 7 accounts.  Muahahahahaha!

 

[mechahamham]

I'm of the opinion that we should have moved away from unique names during the Live era.

 

I haven't looked at the source code, nor the database structures, but even if we make the very probably incorrect assumption that characters do not have unique numerical IDs on the backend, the fact that we have an @global/charactername scheme on the front end STILL gives us unique identifiers for characters even if we do away with unique character names. (Knowing that SGs all get unique numerical IDs in their base codes hints that characters almost certainly do too.)

 

I think it was somewhat before GR launched that the devs indicated that hey had a basic plan put together for a shardless system with non-unique character names, but the CoH community at the time wasn't very receptive. Now that we have 1000 character slots to fill, it seems foolish to me not to pursue this. (My ideal setup would be to have a minimum of one 'crowded' instance and one 'slow day' instance of every permanent zone, with some indicator of which was which like the 3 dots from the server select screen.)

 

As for me, personally, I never have trouble coming up with unique, original character names, often only one word long without resorting to spelling silliness of inserting random punctuation. I see others struggle though, including close family. It always bites away at my willing suspension of disbelief when I see names that DO include such oddities. Regardless, I just don't think it's fair that we should hold each other to the standard of 'every character name must be absolutely unique'.

[Without_Pause]

The devs should simply have it to where your global name is displayed under your character's name and call it good. 

Edited August 17 by Without_Pause

[Apogee]

From what the Devs have said in the past the amount of spaghetti code in the game is enough to make any seasoned programmer blanche.  If there was a simple fix it would have been done already.