mechanics question

[drbuzzard]

So do AVs resist damage debuffs? I've looked at the AV resistance page in the wiki and it lists resistance to all manner of debuffs, but damage is not listed. Is that an error or it is relatively easy to floor an AV to 10% damage?

[Yomo Kimyata]

11 minutes ago, drbuzzard said:

So do AVs resist damage debuffs? I've looked at the AV resistance page in the wiki and it lists resistance to all manner of debuffs, but damage is not listed. Is that an error or it is relatively easy to floor an AV to 10% damage?

 

I was told recently that damage resistance resists damage debuffs.  So if an AV or any foe really has 50% smashing resistance, they will resist half of smashing damage debuffs.

[Saiyajinzoningen]

3 minutes ago, Yomo Kimyata said:

 

I was told recently that damage resistance resists damage debuffs.  So if an AV or any foe really has 50% smashing resistance, they will resist half of smashing damage debuffs.

 

I wish our damage resistance resisted damage debuffs 🤣

[catsi563]

yeah AVs and giant monsters do have resistance to Debuffs but not immunity which is why Rad is still to this day known as the AV killer. its combination of stacked Debuffs can wreck an AV in fairly short order especially if backed up by Sonics and or Darkness or other debuffs 

[drbuzzard]

13 minutes ago, catsi563 said:

yeah AVs and giant monsters do have resistance to Debuffs but not immunity which is why Rad is still to this day known as the AV killer. its combination of stacked Debuffs can wreck an AV in fairly short order especially if backed up by Sonics and or Darkness or other debuffs 

 

Yes, I know this, but I was wondering about how much. The wiki gives numbers for debuff resistance to other debuffs, but fails to mention damage debuff. I'd like to get a feel for how good the -damage powers actually are in practice. 

[Luminara]

25 minutes ago, drbuzzard said:

The wiki gives numbers for debuff resistance to other debuffs, but fails to mention damage debuff.

 

Whatever the amount of Damage Resistance is.  If a critter has 42.5% Resistance to Psi damage, it will also have 42.5% resistance to Psi damage debuffs.  If a critter has 10% Resistance to all damage types, then it will also have 10% resistance to damage debuffs for all damage types.

 

1 hour ago, Saiyajinzoningen said:

 

I wish our damage resistance resisted damage debuffs 🤣

 

They do.  There isn't a Resistance that resists damage debuffs and another Resistance that doesn't.  Resistance is Resistance.

[Without_Pause]

Kin Defender can do -25% per Siphon Power and Fulcrum Shift.  Both can stack, but more so for Siphon Power. 2 SP + a FS even resisted at 75% still means -18.75% DMG.

[Bopper]

The amount of damage resistance an AV has will fluctuate. Last analysis I saw on the subject showed on average AVs have about 10% damage resistance to all types. Granted, that doesn't tell us much as some could have 90% resistance to 1 type, but 0% to others. Some may even have weaknesses (negative resistance). Ultimately, just use a power analyzer on an AV and see for yourself the amount of resistance they have.

[ZemX]

Remember also that if you are fighting an AV, or any enemy, whose level is higher than yours (and this is often the case) there will be some loss of debuff strength just due to the "purple patch" in addition to any loss from the enemy's resistances.

 

https://homecoming.wiki/wiki/Purple_Patch

 

[Snarky]

7 hours ago, Yomo Kimyata said:

 

I was told recently that damage resistance resists damage debuffs.  So if an AV or any foe really has 50% smashing resistance, they will resist half of smashing damage debuffs.

Damage Resistance resists debuffs to Damage Resistance.   It is very simple yet the sentence is awkward due to repetitive use of words
 

Not sure what “resisting smashing damage debuffs” means

 

 

[Doomguide2005]

1 hour ago, Snarky said:

Damage Resistance resists debuffs to Damage Resistance.   It is very simple yet the sentence is awkward due to repetitive use of words
 

Not sure what “resisting smashing damage debuffs” means

 

 

It's basically saying the damage resistance resist damage debuffs ... but specifically vs smashing damage by smashing damage resistance.  As just like us critters have damage resistance values that vary by damage type done.

[Snarky]

7 minutes ago, Doomguide2005 said:

It's basically saying the damage resistance resist damage debuffs ... but specifically vs smashing damage by smashing damage resistance.  As just like us critters have damage resistance values that vary by damage type done.

I feel like i am talking to someone through a drive through speaker 

 

do you mean damage resistance resists “lowering of damage resistance values” or does “resist damage debuffs” mean something else. Because I cannot figure it out

[Without_Pause]

6 minutes ago, Snarky said:

I feel like i am talking to someone through a drive through speaker 

 

do you mean damage resistance resists “lowering of damage resistance values” or does “resist damage debuffs” mean something else. Because I cannot figure it out

If an AV has Res at 75%. That AV will resist at 75% of their damage being lowered. So, if an AV has 50% Res and someone tries to lower that AV's damage 25%, it will actually get lowered by 12.5%.

[Troo]

9 hours ago, drbuzzard said:

but I was wondering about how much.

 

it varies

 

 

[Luminara]

5 hours ago, Snarky said:

does “resist damage debuffs” mean something else. Because I cannot figure it out

 

You know how Twilight Grasp and Darkest Night make enemies hit for less damage?  Resistance affects that.

[Uun]

I don't know if there are any others, but half the damage debuff in Trick Arrow/Poison Gas Arrow is unresistable.

[Snarky]

I was shocked to learn damage resistance resisted itself being debuffed. Now i learn it resists lowering of the damage dealt as well.  Damn. Thanks

[catsi563]

So at least my basic understanding of the principle here is it works as such

 

hero A fires attack at Villain B matching accuracy against villains bs defenses

 

A rolls to hit and if it hits damage is applied villain b resists with whatever resistance they have available which removes any and or all up to the total resistance 

 

A throws a debuff on B Bs resistances under that debuff are dropped by the debuffs percentage meaning B takes more damage per hit from each source

 

now A goes against C an Archvillain who has resistances and the AV resistance to debuffs

 

A throws the same debuff at C

 

C has a chance based on their resistance to RESIST the debuff and cause it to not affect them as i recall or if affecrted have it reduced in effectiveness by the resistance amount

 

(I may be incorrect about that not enitrely sure what the priority is for AV  monster Debuff resistance)

 

So essentially the AV can either resist the debuff entirely or reduce its effectiveness by a specific amount making them tougher to control and debuff unless a high tier one like Howling twilight is stacked on or a number of controls are thrown onto them at once

[Snarky]

1 hour ago, catsi563 said:

So at least my basic understanding of the principle here is it works as such

 

hero A fires attack at Villain B matching accuracy against villains bs defenses

 

A rolls to hit and if it hits damage is applied villain b resists with whatever resistance they have available which removes any and or all up to the total resistance 

 

A throws a debuff on B Bs resistances under that debuff are dropped by the debuffs percentage meaning B takes more damage per hit from each source

 

now A goes against C an Archvillain who has resistances and the AV resistance to debuffs

 

A throws the same debuff at C

 

C has a chance based on their resistance to RESIST the debuff and cause it to not affect them as i recall or if affecrted have it reduced in effectiveness by the resistance amount

 

(I may be incorrect about that not enitrely sure what the priority is for AV  monster Debuff resistance)

 

So essentially the AV can either resist the debuff entirely or reduce its effectiveness by a specific amount making them tougher to control and debuff unless a high tier one like Howling twilight is stacked on or a number of controls are thrown onto them at once

Yeah. Except a player characters resistance value also provides protection from debuffs.  Say a Tank has 100% res to a damage type.  Sure, he only gets credit for 90%.  Except for against the debuff.  Full 100%

[GM Crumpet]

Not sure what the figures are for AV's, all I know is they go down like a stunned zebra if you have some good support characters in the party. Kin, Rad, Darkness etc all help immensely when you are fighting the really tough people. 

[SwitchFade]

Damage resistance resists RESISTABLE resistance debuffs

 

Now you know. And knowing is half the battle.

[shortguy on indom]

so its treated like a typical DeBuff calc...

enemy lvl to you DeBuff modifiers +1 = 0.90; +2 = 0.80; +3 = 0.65; +4 = 0.48; +5 = 0.30 ....(see purp patch link)

+5 calc shown because its what i had saved (see ResMod link)....substitue ResMod values for +1, +2, etc. IF you can find them for other levels, ranks and factions

AV's con +5 to your lvl unless u are equipped with incarnates... it does not take into account the up/down purple triangles thing directly

Example:
Purple Patch on +5 AV enemy...decreases your power’s Debuff effective strength on the enemy by a factor of 0.30.
Player attack ToHitDebuff has 67% original strength, so 0.67 x 0.30 = 0.201 = 20.10% Purple Patch strength….
then it gets even worse.

After the attack hits the enemy this happens: (note: this does not apply to sleep or immobilize powers).
Because of the Purple Patch, the +5 enemy has 87% resistence to this 20.01% strength. 
So, it looks like this.
0.201 x (1.00-0.87) = 0.201 x 0.23 = 0.02613 = 2.613% Final Strength

side note: -def debuffs are great to build up a super high ChanceToHit for you, but get squashed by the Purp Patch resistance after they connect.  This squashed value is what your team's ChanceToHit benefit is from your efforts.

 

purp patch link:  Purple Patch - Paragon Wiki Archive

ResMod link:  Archvillain - Paragon Wiki Archive

[shortguy on indom]

1 hour ago, GM Crumpet said:

Not sure what the figures are for AV's, all I know is they go down like a stunned zebra if you have some good support characters in the party. Kin, Rad, Darkness etc all help immensely when you are fighting the really tough people. 

 

Willing to wager they go down faster due to team buffs rather than enemy debuffs.... as most of the 4* crowds already write about.... that and -Res.  

 

imho for +4 and hard mode its all about  ChanceToHit and Damage.... and for lower content +!, +2, +3 Debuffs may work better? 

[GM Crumpet]

2 hours ago, shortguy on indom said:

 

Willing to wager they go down faster due to team buffs rather than enemy debuffs.... as most of the 4* crowds already write about.... that and -Res.  

 

imho for +4 and hard mode its all about  ChanceToHit and Damage.... and for lower content +!, +2, +3 Debuffs may work better? 

Wouldn't know as I can't stand the 4 star stuff. Aeon leaves me cold and I'd rather eat pineapple on pizza than do ITF

[biostem]

10 minutes ago, GM Crumpet said:

I'd rather eat pineapple on pizza than do ITF

I see no problems, here...