Focused Feedback: Epic / Ancillary Power Pools

[Vanden]

15 minutes ago, FupDup said:

That actually appears to have been accounted for given the patch notes for LBE reference all 4 melee ATs: 

 

Epic > Laser Beam Eyes (Brute/Scrapper/Stalker/Tanker) - Power is now auto-hit, but damage inflicted is randomized based on the hit-roll
Epic > Laser Beam Eyes (Brute/Tanker) - Recharge increased from 6s to 8s
Epic > Laser Beam Eyes (Scrapper/Stalker) - Endurance Cost reduced from 8.07575 to 6.5

 

And there's also the bit where Body Mastery is getting renamed to Energy Mastery anyways. 

 

It's not really a buff, though. With the damage scaling based on the tohit roll, it should end up doing roughly the same amount of damage over time. And procs still need to do a tohit roll.

[FupDup]

1 minute ago, Vanden said:

 

It's not really a buff, though. With the damage scaling based on the tohit roll, it should end up doing roughly the same amount of damage over time. And procs still need to do a tohit roll.

My post wasn't to argue whether it's a buff or not, but to reassure the other user that the Brute/Tanker version was not excluded from the changes.

 

As for damage over time, maybe it might be similar for the most part but being auto-hit will be a nice counter to enemies who can give themselves or allies super high defenses that would cause you to miss most of the time. And the Brute/Tanker recharge nerf will be a slight proc rate buff. 

[Bionic_Flea]

Hey, @Captain Powerhouse!

 

Can [ICE ELEMENTAL] be allowed to tale slow sets please?  The Patron Pets can take KB (Leviathan), DefDebuff and AccDefDebuff (Mace), EndMod (MU), and ToHitDebuff + AccTohitDebuff (Soul).

 

As Ice elemental is patterned after the Patron pets, with the same super long recharge, it seems only fair that it also get to slot for it's secondary effects, like the Patron pets can.

 

Please?

 

Never mind!  It CAN take holds and slow sets in addition to pet and intensive recharge pets.  Thanks!

 

 

Edited January 21 by Bionic_Flea

[Syovere]

I'm a bit baffled about the "thesaurus nerf". Someone mentioned consistency, but these pools have different powers for different archetypes; it feels to me like renaming Dark Armor to Dark Miasma for "consistency". And if that doesn't make sense to you, that's the point I'm getting at.

[America's Angel]

Laser Beam Eyes objectively did get a buff. My pylon times with it are better on beta vs live.

[Indystruck]

No, it'd be like if Defenders had "Dark Miasma," Controller had "Shadow Miasma," Dominators had "Umbral Manipulation," and Corruptors had "Shadow Sorcery" and they all got changed to "Dark Miasma."

[macskull]

44 minutes ago, Syovere said:

I'm a bit baffled about the "thesaurus nerf". Someone mentioned consistency, but these pools have different powers for different archetypes; it feels to me like renaming Dark Armor to Dark Miasma for "consistency". And if that doesn't make sense to you, that's the point I'm getting at.

Interestingly enough, the patron pools have different powers for every AT yet they all share the same names.

 

This is a really weird thing to be upset about, since it has exactly zero impact on gameplay or anyone's characters in general.

Edited January 21 by macskull

[Syovere]

8 minutes ago, macskull said:

This is a really weird thing to be upset about, since it has exactly zero impact on gameplay or anyone's characters in general.

By that logic, it's also a really weird thing to change. Or does that only work for telling people to pipe down?

[Greyhame]

26 minutes ago, Syovere said:

By that logic, it's also a really weird thing to change. Or does that only work for telling people to pipe down?

 

I am unaccustomed to this level of Thesaurus-related excitement.  😆😂🤣

[macskull]

2 hours ago, Syovere said:

By that logic, it's also a really weird thing to change. Or does that only work for telling people to pipe down?

Nah, the change makes sense, and a lot of it is just standardizing names to what many people already call the pools anyways.

[Chris24601]

My question is the need to nerf the the recharge time on Mu Bolts. It’s been six seconds since it got introduced and that made it feel a little zippier; an important aspect when, like the starting characters, you don’t actually have enough to make a full chain when stuck at a given range band.

 

I know 6s vs. 8s isn’t THAT much of a nerf, but with good global recharge the 6s base is enough to pull off a semi-respectible chain with mu bolt each going between zapp, electric shackles, and ball lightning for those times when melee is just really impractical.

 

I get the drive to make all the powers the same for easier balancing*, but for me this move is just killing the spirit of certain things (like how Rad’s super quick T1 really set it apart for Defenders, then the Blaster version is up at 4s so the playstyle doesn’t carry through to the other AT, it’s just another plays like every other blast set with different animations… sometimes a guy just wants to mash the 1 key against trash mobs and that super fast recharge made that practical).

 

* I spent a long time on a game project doing something similar only to realize I’d essentially crushed any uniqueness out of my classes because they all worked the same way with just fluff text saying they were different. Letting them have differences made my end users happier because not everyone values the same things equally… I think the same is true of power sets. Defenders/Corruptors are way more interesting because Devices, Force Fields, Kinetics, Storm, etc. all do very different things.

[elkhor]

On 11/22/2023 at 11:44 AM, The Curator said:

Epic > Dark Mastery > Soul Drain (Defender/Corruptor) - Renamed Spirit Drain. Now is Target AoE, accepting Target AoE sets instead of Melee AoE sets. Range is 60', hits up to 5 targets (hits foes both alive and defeated), buffs damage and to-hit for 15s duration.

 

So for this "it was too good for too long" nerf (cause lets face it, its a nerf being half the uptime of the current Soul Drain) which I guess I can understand but I considered you already pay the "tax" of having to pick 2 powers before you can get it.

 

The concept you came sounds fun but the one thing that will be build altering a lot is the change of nature now being ranged AoE. The IO sets for ranged AoE are relatively different from Melee sets and don't offer Melee defense for example.  I see this bit being rather annoying and won't help with what will probably already be a quite unpopular modification. 

[Legion of One]

Please correct the power icon for Patron/Mace Mastery/Personal Forcefield --  It currently looks like an AOM attack.

[Skygoddess]

"Epic > Fire Mastery > Bonfire (Blaster/Mastermind) - Knockdown rate has been reduced while using KB2KD enhancements"

 

Nooooo!

[Frosticus]

Stalker:

Ice Mastery

Frigid Wind - Seems to be 100% crit chance from hide rather than 50%

[cazaril]

LOVE the hard Work thanks to all thoses giving there time for this.

 

question about 

• , not pic > Energy Mastery > Focused Accuracy (Brute/Scrapper/Stalker/Tanker) - End Cost reduced from 0.39 to 0.195

Leguy cost is 0.78 , unless there was a recent change I missed. (and Mids too :p)

 

so reduce from .78 to .39 would be ok

reduce from .78 to .195 seems unbalanced

 

Did I say i LOVE the work done? well No I'm sure I did 😄

 

[Vanden]

1 hour ago, cazaril said:

question about 

• , not pic > Energy Mastery > Focused Accuracy (Brute/Scrapper/Stalker/Tanker) - End Cost reduced from 0.39 to 0.195

Leguy cost is 0.78 , unless there was a recent change I missed. (and Mids too :p)

 

so reduce from .78 to .39 would be ok

reduce from .78 to .195 seems unbalanced

 

Focused Accuracy ticks twice per second. At .39 endurance cost (current) it's a total of .78 endurance per second. This patch reduces the endurance cost per tick to .195, for a total of .39 endurance per second.

[America's Angel]

Not a huge fan of the shortened animations for Bile Spray and Arctic Breath.

They feel too short/snippy. The theme of the powers is getting lost.

To compare:

Live:

Beta:

The new, snippier, attacks just don't have that same OOMPH, you know? Some of the gravitas is lost.

When I think of frost breath attacks, I think of Superman and Supergirl, who have always used these powers slowly as a signature move with great impact. (Which makes sense, breathing is a slow process.)

Some examples:

 

 

I get that balance changes tend to be more numbers-focused than art-focused, but I think these changes go against the "Rule of Cool" and should be reverted. Leviathan isn't an optimal pick, so I think it can afford to keep some slower animations for style points.

[Marbing]

8 minutes ago, America's Angel said:

Not a huge fan of the shortened animations for Bile Spray and Arctic Breath.

They feel too short/snippy. The theme of the powers is getting lost.

To compare:

Live:

Beta:

The new, snippier, attacks just don't have that same OOMPH, you know? Some of the gravitas is lost.

When I think of frost breath attacks, I think of Superman and Supergirl, who have always used these powers slowly as a signature move with great impact. (Which makes sense, breathing is a slow process.)

Some examples:

 

 

I get that balance changes tend to be more numbers-focused than art-focused, but I think these changes go against the "Rule of Cool" and should be reverted. Leviathan isn't an optimal pick, so I think it can afford to keep some slower animations for style points.

I see what you mean, but isn't bile spray more of a vomit attack anyway? I think it works here for that power. Arctic breath though should stay slower, otherwise it’s arctic sneeze.

[WitchofDread]

@America's Angel oh god yeah. Totally agree. The beta version is WAY too short.

[KaizenSoze]

Leviathan is actually usable now. Before chaining cones anchored the player too long.

 

I have created several toons over HC lifespan trying to make Leviathan work. The cast times were always the killer.

 

Maybe in the future the devs will redo the animations, but as for now I prefer the shorter ones.

 

Unless you proc'ed them out, which made them very end expensive. The old cones were the damage equivalent blowing raspberries for 5+ seconds.

Now, they don't hit harder but at least you aren't swarmed by mobs before you finish the second cone. Gives me time to line up another round.

[ecogranjapsi]

The change of Focused Acc is unexpected, and now it's a good alternative for Conserve Power on my tanks. They usually have the end problems already solved by then, and the -perception allows them to not be so yellow candy dependent.

 

The epic renaiming is also unexpected. And if it's because of consistency, then Frigid Wind reads a lot like Frost Breath and yet there it is.

 

Not sure about the range reduction for holds across al sets, will make range toons dabble closer to the action and that's not really why they are ranged.

 

Sould Drain > Spirit Drain is also an unexpected change. Always thought that Soul Drain it being perma-able was balanced by requiring 2 other powers and risking staying longer in melee and drawing attention (during the opening of a fight, where there are the most enemies around), and tied to Defenders/Corruptors.

And now it's no longer only an opening move, which is good; but it has low staying power, so even if you get buffs from defeated foes when cleaning up a group any benefit will be gone once you reach the next mob.

Thematically fits in Dark Mastery, but I agree with those who say the change seems to break some of the sinergies current Soul Drain has with def/corr blasting sets.

[Seed22]

I see this as a buff to Bile spray and artic that should stay. Maybe more people would take them to use instead of just to proc bomb.

 

Theme should never EVER trump performance. In any situation, at any time, NEVER. 
 

If these changes make the power better, they should stay

[Crimsanotic]

7 hours ago, America's Angel said:

I get that balance changes tend to be more numbers-focused than art-focused, but I think these changes go against the "Rule of Cool" and should be reverted. Leviathan isn't an optimal pick, so I think it can afford to keep some slower animations for style points.

 

I agree that arctic breath "feels" more impactful with a longer animation, but in it's current state it's very not great. But I also think bile spray's shortened animation is good.

Perhaps arctic breath should simply do much more damage to justify a longer animation time.

[Yellowjacket]

Are the Tanker/Brute Earth Mastery changes current? The changes as written seem a bit egregious, but they also don't seem to match what's currently in beta?

 

Stalagmites is a tough one to balance, it's actually undertuned being only a 10% stun chance with low damage and low accuracy. I think whoever is doing the balance pass likely missed that it's only 10% chance (if that proposed end cost isn't a typo [it is a typo]). Put up against Ice Storm, which is pretty much exactly just the blaster power with double recharge and about 1/3 more end cost, Stalagmites is looking pretty weak.

Maybe something between photon grenade and how it is now? So like 75% accuracy, 19 end, 32s recharge, mag 3 stun 9.5s 30% chance, halve the damage.

What I'd like personally is keep the accuracy at 60%, ~19 end, 64s recharge, mag 2 stun 6s 100% chance, keep the damage the same. But there's not really precedence for reducing the mag of a mezz power to compensate for faster recharge (compared to the original controller power)? Either way I think giving it 100% accuracy is not in the spirit of this type of power, and doesn't really help it become more effective.

 

Quicksand should have the radius decreased or the recharge increased not both imo. I agree it's too much of a copy paste of the controller power. If the radius is decreased increasing the slow closer to controller levels should be considered. It's a bit of a lackluster power to begin with other than being an autohit -def.

Edited January 22 by Yellowjacket