No one plays hardmodes because they suck

[TheSpiritFox]

I appreciate everything about being able to play the game. The work involved in keeping this going, the license deal. The new arcs and power sets. 

 

But hardmodes are a failure. 

 

People dont run them much at all. When they do its blasters and melee toons begging for /cold corruptors or defenders. There are tons of powerset combos which would not be accepted by someone running hardmode content, including the entire Mastermind AT which I main, because we'd be dead weight. 

 

Hardmodes are a fuckup. A mistake. And yall need to call them. Yank them back out of the game entirely, and create new drop opportunities for Prismatic aethers so that they dont inch back up to 10m plus on the AH. 

 

A real hardmode is going to involve more complex mechanics, not invalidating defense, resistance, and incarnates in one fell swoop so that normal enemies in "boosted" content can now murder you again like you're playing +4 at level 5. 

 

We get it, power climb in this game is nuts. Its been like that forever, and yall should have let it be. 

 

You want hardmode we need more stuff like strong & pretty in BAF. Mechanics which remove one to three team members from the fight to do something else, things that require coordination and understanding to execute, and then the group wipes if they fail. 

 

I would totally understand if those kind of encounters arent really in the cards and if designing hardmodes around multiple phases requires more than this dev team is capable of putting out. Thats fine! We'll play the game as is!

 

But hardmodes need to go, and we need other ways to get Aethers on the market before they hit 10m+ each. 

[PeregrineFalcon]

Hard disagree.

 

I'm sorry that Hard Mode min/maxers won't allow you to join on your Mastermind (I love my Masterminds myself so I understand), but there are plenty of people who do play and enjoy them. Removing them from the game would be far more work than just leaving them in for those people who do enjoy playing them.

 

Sorry, I'll always be against removing content from the game.

[Glacier Peak]

If a player doesn't enjoy a specific section of content in this game, they are perfectly capable of not participating in said content. Taking away content that players enjoy and the developers enjoyed making seems spiteful. This is not a suggestion I support.

[Laucianna]

I get where you are coming from, it is very centred towards bringing a set number of AT's, I would also prefer it if it relied more on playing smart (Avoiding things that will kill you, unique boss tactics) more then high dps checks and high debuffs so it would be a case of any AT could join on a GOOD build and it require them to be smart as they play ❤️ 

But the idea of taking them out of the game and they are a failure is wrong, people still run them and they give people who want that harder challenge what they want 🙂 

[Indystruck]

counterpoint: nah

[macskull]

Nope. I'm more than happy to let other players subsidize my builds so they can get their PA costumes. You don't wanna run the content, that's fine, but everything about hard mode stuff is entirely optional.

Edited March 12 by macskull

[Videra]

Skill Issue, I've gone on 4* runs as a PB and WS lol.

[macskull]

People don't play hardmode because it is actually difficult and requires high levels of coordination to be consistently successful without wanting to suck start a shotgun and I'd wager the vast majority of this game's players don't actually want a challenge.

[Greycat]

14 minutes ago, macskull said:

People don't play hardmode because it is actually difficult and requires high levels of coordination to be consistently successful without wanting to suck start a shotgun and I'd wager the vast majority of this game's players don't actually want a challenge.

 

Well, that and they take more time, generally, even with the coordination. At least from what I've seen.

[PeregrineFalcon]

21 minutes ago, macskull said:

People don't play hardmode because it is actually difficult and requires high levels of coordination to be consistently successful without wanting to suck start a shotgun and I'd wager the vast majority of this game's players don't actually want a challenge.

Well that and the fact that many CoH players are, according to their own posts, absolutely terrified of the very thought of using VOIP to coordinate while gaming.

[Frozen Burn]

2 hours ago, TheSpiritFox said:

I appreciate everything about being able to play the game. The work involved in keeping this going, the license deal. The new arcs and power sets. 

 

But hardmodes are a failure. 

 

People dont run them much at all. When they do its blasters and melee toons begging for /cold corruptors or defenders. There are tons of powerset combos which would not be accepted by someone running hardmode content, including the entire Mastermind AT which I main, because we'd be dead weight. 

 

Hardmodes are a fuckup. A mistake. And yall need to call them. Yank them back out of the game entirely, and create new drop opportunities for Prismatic aethers so that they dont inch back up to 10m plus on the AH. 

 

A real hardmode is going to involve more complex mechanics, not invalidating defense, resistance, and incarnates in one fell swoop so that normal enemies in "boosted" content can now murder you again like you're playing +4 at level 5. 

 

We get it, power climb in this game is nuts. Its been like that forever, and yall should have let it be. 

 

You want hardmode we need more stuff like strong & pretty in BAF. Mechanics which remove one to three team members from the fight to do something else, things that require coordination and understanding to execute, and then the group wipes if they fail. 

 

I would totally understand if those kind of encounters arent really in the cards and if designing hardmodes around multiple phases requires more than this dev team is capable of putting out. Thats fine! We'll play the game as is!

 

But hardmodes need to go, and we need other ways to get Aethers on the market before they hit 10m+ each. 

 

Ummm... there are lots of of Hardmodes being run on Torch, and i know of people who run them on Excel.  And I actually prefer them to the regular version.  They are challenging and not just an easy walk through like so mush else.  they take coordination, patience, and strategy.  And i find this hard line against them from you a bit  of BS when you admitted in another thread that you haven't even run any.  

 

So, how about you spend some time running them before you start saying they are crap.

 

 

Edited March 12 by Frozen Burn

[Lockely]

I think if there's specific ATs being left out of the content, it's less about the content itself and more about AT balance. Granted, auto-hit really shouldn't be a thing and you should always have some form of counterplay (like for MMs, having to manually move your minions out of telegraphs/wind up strikes/ect as long as there's the ability to do so), but that's something that can be worked on and improved.

Removing it entirely? Nah.

[Lunar Ronin]

1 hour ago, PeregrineFalcon said:

Well that and the fact that many CoH players are, according to their own posts, absolutely terrified of the very thought of using VOIP to coordinate while gaming.

 

Good thing that you don't need VOIP for 4*, let alone anything else in the game.

[twozerofoxtrot]

You can pug a 1 star with basically anything. 

 

I don't get where this poster is coming from. It's not a 1 or 0 proposition, there's a scale for a reason.

[Lunar Ronin]

TheSpiritFox, I understand your frustration.  I was told a couple of years ago that, and I quote, "Masterminds can't do hard modes.". Not "can't do as quickly.".  Not "can't do as efficiently.". Just "can't do.".

 

They didn't know what they were talking about, and I proved them wrong.  A lot of people don't understand the Mastermind AT nor how it's played.  I do.  You do.  Prove them wrong like I did and try leading one of your own.  You may get some pushback from people who have been conditioned to think that only about five ATs and fourteen power sets can do advanced modes, but just ignore them.  If enough know you and know that you know what you're talking about, you will be good.

 

2 hours ago, Videra said:

Skill Issue, I've gone on 4* runs as a PB and WS lol.

 

With or without a "changeling" build?

[macskull]

1 hour ago, twozerofoxtrot said:

I don't get where this poster is coming from. It's not a 1 or 0 proposition, there's a scale for a reason.

I'm not entirely convinced OP isn't trolling, looking at post history they disappeared for like three years and then came back recently. Every thread they've started since then has been an absolute banger.

[Ghost]

@TheSpiritFox

Have you thought about actually running some of the content BEFORE deciding you don’t like it?

You could always form a team yourself.

[kelika2]

if i have to study for it i tend to not want to do it. warcraft, ff14. etc

[Player2]

2 hours ago, twozerofoxtrot said:

You can pug a 1 star with basically anything. 

 

I don't get where this poster is coming from. It's not a 1 or 0 proposition, there's a scale for a reason.

I've been on 2-star ITF pugs that went fine.  3-star starts to push the limits, though. 

[Shin Magmus]

The Hard Modes (now Advanced Modes) are fine.  On top of simply being some of the most fun that I have in the game right now, they fulfill an important niche in the game's design.  They try to make something actually hard in a game often complained about by being too easy, but what they really do is make team comps and builds actually matter more (compared to most content, where team comp is completely irrelevant).

 

I also think that all the increased rewards from Advanced Mode enemies are good from a game design perspective, encouraging players to fight through enemies that are buffed to be "slower" fights, by giving players incentives so they still make money/etc. "faster".

 

Lastly I want to echo that 2-star Advanced Mode is insanely easy when you're used to 4-star, and others have mentioned this.  Decent builds on a not-completely-stupid PUG should have no issues clearing 1-star and 2-star.  I just did a 2-star ITF recently and it was smooth sailing, death-less, big chillin (since many of us brought our 4-star characters).

[Clave Dark 5]

Then skip them.  I do, all the time.

[Videra]

8 hours ago, Lunar Ronin said:

With or without a "changeling" build?

 

Yes to both. I've stopped doing changeling recently because my fingers are crumbling to arthritis and carpal tunnel.

[Lunar Ronin]

10 hours ago, Lockely said:

I think if there's specific ATs being left out of the content, it's less about the content itself and more about AT balance. Granted, auto-hit really shouldn't be a thing and you should always have some form of counterplay (like for MMs, having to manually move your minions out of telegraphs/wind up strikes/ect as long as there's the ability to do so), but that's something that can be worked on and improved.

Removing it entirely? Nah.

 

It's two issues.  Yes, some ATs and some power sets need help.  That's the first issue.

 

Then there's the fact that the majority of advanced modes are ran by hardcore speed runners.  They typically limit their teams to three (Blaster, Corruptor, and Scrapper) to seven ATs (Blaster, Brute, Corruptor, Defender, Peacebringers and Warshades that use the Changeling exploit, and Scrapper), depending on the group, and anywhere from twelve to twenty power sets (out of a game with now 112 power sets not including HEATs and VEATs), in order to get the fastest possible speed times, or at the least very good speed times.  That's not a problem though.  God bless them.  Play how you like, with who you like.

 

The second issue is that some (not all, not the majority, but some), of the hardcore advanced mode speed runners go around telling people who are "advanced mode curious" (  ), that you need certain ATs and power sets in order to do advanced mode content at all, and/or that certain ATs and power sets can't do advanced mode content at all.  I've seen it on these forums, I've seen it on the Homecoming Discord server just a couple of days ago, I've seen it on private Discord servers, and I've seen it in-game.  "You need four Cold Corruptors in order for a hard mode team to be any good."  "If you want to do hard modes, your Blasters and Corruptors need Ice Blast or Fire Blast."  "You shouldn't play Radiation Emission on hard modes, only Cold, Kin, or Nature."  "Masterminds can't do hard modes."  I've seen all of that and plenty more.

 

You don't need one single danged AT nor power set in order to do an advanced mode.  Are Cold Corruptors helpful?  Danged right they are.  Are Cold Corruptors necessary?  Not by any means.  Certainly not four of them.  Is Radiation Emission bad for advanced modes?  Uh, no.  Radiation Emission is great.

 

This going around telling people that certain ATs and power sets are necessary for advanced modes, and that certain ATs and power sets can't do advanced modes has convinced a lot of others who are less knowledgeable about the game (and I'm not saying this to knock them, there's nothing wrong with that.  Lord knows that there are things that I'm less knowledgeable about), that it's true.  Try forming a PUG advanced mode TF or SF on a Mastermind and see what happens.  Some people will quit.  "Masterminds can't do hard modes."  Or they'll start demanding Cold Corruptors.

 

If you don't care about getting very fast advanced mode speed running times, the only things you need for an advanced mode TF or SF are roles (a tank, some controls, damage, debuffs, and buffs), decent builds (builds, not ATs nor power sets), and people who can pay attention.  That's it.  But many people have been convinced by some hardcore speed runners otherwise.

Edited March 12 by Lunar Ronin

[BrandX]

I ran multiple 1 stars and a 2 star just this week O.O  All of them PuGs.

[JasperStone]

I join them when I can....

 

12 hours ago, Greycat said:

 

Well, that and they take more time, generally, even with the coordination. At least from what I've seen.

This. I often have a tight window to play and rather do a couple of things over one long fight.

10 hours ago, twozerofoxtrot said:

You can pug a 1 star with basically anything. 

 

I don't get where this poster is coming from. It's not a 1 or 0 proposition, there's a scale for a reason.

I see a lot of posts like this recently.

From new and longtime forum posters

"I HATE this thing....get rid of it"

"This thing SUCKS .. get rid of it"

"This thing is WRONG ... fix it"

*Shrug*

Most of these things don't bother me

Forums are where people can share their opinions ... sure.

 

Like this one

14 hours ago, TheSpiritFox said:

But hardmodes are a failure

Opinion.

14 hours ago, TheSpiritFox said:

But hardmodes need to go, and we need other ways to get Aethers on the market before they hit 10m+ each

My Opinion: A lot of Aether should be hard to get. 

Should be hard to acquire.

The items purchased should represent hard work.

 

There should be things in the game that do take time, effort, and work.

But are achievable.

Again ... my opinion

 

Example: My Peacebringer 

I earned him.

This was the early days of Live. You needed a 50 to unlock Kheldians.

No START, with Dble XP.

There were only sporadic Dble XP weekends, most of which I missed.

The early days of farming, no AE fire-farming, YAY council portal mission!

It's still a slow slog to 50.

That first time I was able to create a Kheldian meant a lot to me.

Still does, as I remade him here on HC.

Edited March 12 by JasperStone