PC Gamer Article on Homecoming's Deal with NC

[Greycat]

2 hours ago, Nostromo21 said:

Out of interest, does HC have an 'untouchable' backup of the current build we have access to, and/or another 'secret' hosting location they can fall back to, should the need arise to go rogue again?

 

While there's not likely to be a "public backup build" of what's going on on HC, Ourodev has the I24 (original leaked files) and I25 (SCORE) game files, and information on setting your own up - they've been the basis for all the servers out there, as I recall, and setting up one on your own (at least for personal use, don't ask me about hosting, setting up multiple servers/shards, etc.) is *really* straightforward.

 

So... honestly, COH itself kind of can't ever go away forever again.

[Skyhawke]

7 hours ago, Captain Fabulous said:

It's only "no server drama" when someone hates on servers that aren't HC. When it's HC hate it's anything goes. They banned me there and I haven't gone back since. Frak that toxic cesspool of hot garbage.

 

 

[Doc_Scorpion]

I both agree and disagree...  There's certainly some very awful communities on Reddit, but there's also a large number of useful and interesting ones.

[Lockely]

Reddit has it's moments to be sure, but it's nowhere near as bad as the various chan boards.

[Glacier Peak]

Someone else saw the announcement in their news feed...

 

 

[Lockely]

40 minutes ago, Krimson said:

Who do think is causing the drama? Thunderspy claims that they are no longer the 4chan server heh.

Don't know, what I do know is that I called out said devs on the subreddit for directly attacking Cipher and making up conspiracy theories about HC infiltrating PC Gamer to manufacture a spokesperson from NCSoft to confirm their deal, and was subsequently permabanned for it. 🙂

So, eh. No big loss.

[Cipher]

21 minutes ago, Lockely said:

Don't know, what I do know is that I called out said devs on the subreddit for directly attacking Cipher and making up conspiracy theories about HC infiltrating PC Gamer to manufacture a spokesperson from NCSoft to confirm their deal, and was subsequently permabanned for it. 🙂

So, eh. No big loss.

 

Sorry you've been banned from the subreddit 😞

 

Unfortunately this isn't the first time we've heard of this happening, and the hostility is one of the reasons we've chosen not to engage with the subreddit in any official capacity for years now.

 

For others, while we do appreciate that the community wants to come to our defense when these sorts of things happen, sometimes it's best not to engage and just focus on the positive discussion on the subreddit.

[Ulysses Dare]

1 hour ago, Krimson said:

Don't worry about it. That sub was created with the intention of bashing Homecoming. The three attention seekers are just doing their best to make their existences bearable in the only way they know how. 

/r/Cityofheroes existed long before Homecoming did.

[PeregrineFalcon]

You know, you all talk about how horrible the folks on Reddit are, but you know what I see? I see, right now, in that thread about the PC Gamer Article, a Thuderspy dev kinda smack talking Homecoming and being downvoted by his fellow redditors.

 

So keep telling yourself that only the people on the Homecoming forums are ok and everyone else is bad/wrong all you want, but it's demonstrably untrue.

 

And I'm less than sympathetic with people's complaints about the moderation on Reddit when the moderation here on the Homecoming forums has vacillated between "draconian snowflake protection program" and almost reasonable.

[Lockely]

24 minutes ago, PeregrineFalcon said:

You know, you all talk about how horrible the folks on Reddit are, but you know what I see? I see, right now, in that thread about the PC Gamer Article, a Thuderspy dev kinda smack talking Homecoming and being downvoted by his fellow redditors.

 

So keep telling yourself that only the people on the Homecoming forums are ok and everyone else is bad/wrong all you want, but it's demonstrably untrue.

 

And I'm less than sympathetic with people's complaints about the moderation on Reddit when the moderation here on the Homecoming forums has vacillated between "draconian snowflake protection program" and almost reasonable.

 

To be entirely fair, when I entered that thread, they were in the +20s on those comments (only one of the three TSpy devs participating in the thread are tagged as such in their flair) until people started calling them out.

[Scarlet Shocker]

Dragging the thread back to some relevancy, I was impressed with the article in question! Good find @Lunar Ronin

 

Personally I had little or no doubt that when the HC crew announced they'd come to a deal, it was an actual thing!

 

Because

a) they'd said they wanted to

b) they've always tried to engage with NCSoft

c) it would have been incredibly stupid to lie to the community and in plain sight of NCSoft. That would have shown a very poor show of faith and wrecked the project.

 

So yeah, Never much doubt on my part but interesting that the article quoted NCSoft people and it sounds positive overall.

 

Ultimately we have a very happy outcome and all parties should be commended.

[Faultline]

I know people are frustrated with the subreddit situation, but I'll echo Cipher's position in that it's best to not engage and focus on the positive. Press attention is certain to cause a new influx of players, and we want them to see a welcoming community, rather than one that is fractured and bitter. Be excellent to each other and game on, dudes.

[wjrasmussen]

On 4/5/2024 at 9:02 AM, Lunar Ronin said:

PC Gamer put up an article detailing the deal made between Homecoming and NC. You can read it here.

 

 

 

This is very surprising to me as I thought PC Magazine was dead.

[wjrasmussen]

20 hours ago, Greycat said:

 

While there's not likely to be a "public backup build" of what's going on on HC, Ourodev has the I24 (original leaked files) and I25 (SCORE) game files, and information on setting your own up - they've been the basis for all the servers out there, as I recall, and setting up one on your own (at least for personal use, don't ask me about hosting, setting up multiple servers/shards, etc.) is *really* straightforward.

 

So... honestly, COH itself kind of can't ever go away forever again.

Best place to get the code still that discord channel?

[Zect]

23 hours ago, Nostromo21 said:

I hate to be cynical (or do I...?), but words like 'guardrails' make me very nervous.

 

I'm guessing these 'guardrails' include such things as preserving the game's ESRB rating (if you've wondered why you can't have naked tights, this is more likely to be the reason, not - or at least not just - prudishness), as well as other things that may have reputational and/or legal consequences for NCSoft, like the policing of hate speech and the ability to create clones of characters from other IP, given that NCSoft remain the legal owners of the game, source code, and IP.

 

If I am right, it's really no surprise NCSoft would want to strike a deal - in practical purposes they have lost all control over the game now that the source code has been released into the wild, but this way they receive at least some assurance that what will be done with it isn't against their interests.

[biostem]

8 minutes ago, Zect said:

If I am right, it's really no surprise NCSoft would want to strike a deal

My concern is that they see HC meeting its funding goals in relatively short order, and wondering how they could further monetize the game.  At the same time, it reveals just what a volunteer staff can do compared to whatever NCSoft may be paying for the "professional" dev team on their other MMO titles...

[WumpusRat]

1 hour ago, Zect said:

 

I'm guessing these 'guardrails' include such things as preserving the game's ESRB rating (if you've wondered why you can't have naked tights, this is more likely to be the reason, not - or at least not just - prudishness),

That actually reminds me, back near the end of live my bf at the time and I created a pair of characters named Bare Bear and Bear Bare, who had boots, gloves, bear ears, and a domino mask, with the chain wrapped waistband and shoulders, with everything else being "bare". Dark skin with the eden and bikini bits as close as possible to the skin color.

It was silly fun. 🙂

[Nostromo21]

4 hours ago, Zect said:

 

I'm guessing these 'guardrails' include such things as preserving the game's ESRB rating (if you've wondered why you can't have naked tights, this is more likely to be the reason, not - or at least not just - prudishness), as well as other things that may have reputational and/or legal consequences for NCSoft, like the policing of hate speech and the ability to create clones of characters from other IP, given that NCSoft remain the legal owners of the game, source code, and IP.

 

If I am right, it's really no surprise NCSoft would want to strike a deal - in practical purposes they have lost all control over the game now that the source code has been released into the wild, but this way they receive at least some assurance that what will be done with it isn't against their interests.

 

Yeah, fair enough, and I understand completely the limitations (legal & otherwise) of them licensing the rights to a third party - I was there from beta, back when the Marvel scumbags sued Cryptic...personally, I think the whole IP oxymoron is a blight on humanity, but that's just me. At the very least, everything should enter the public domain after a year or two at most, but I'm weird and a bit socialist that way (just not of the lunatic left!).

 

I've already had a throwaway toon I made a year ago called Barbierella recently pinged for copyright infringement and was forced to rename her. The irony is, I named her after Barbarella, the Jane Fonda movie (which was obviously already taken), just modified it a bit. And a device is yet to be invented that could measure my level of interest (or disdain) in the new movie, bleh. She is now called Babarella, but the whole thing is a complete joke, as she was just concept costume slapped onto a brute, which I never play.

Edited April 7 by Nostromo21

[Scarlet Shocker]

On 4/6/2024 at 2:22 AM, Nostromo21 said:

I hate to be cynical (or do I...?), but words like 'guardrails' make me very nervous.

 

I sincerely hope this 'alleged' 'relationship' doesn't devolve into a master/slave or publisher/dev type thing and NCSoft at some point demand that MTX/cash shop/loot boxes/season passes/gacha/etc be shoe-horned into the game, so they can take a 50% cut say, and make it worth their while, ahem. 'Licensed' now also means they can simply refuse to re-license at the next anniversary or simply issue a C&D for any reason whatsoever I'd be willing to bet, as HC have now formally and legally acknowledged them as the rightful owners of their instance/version. I simply don't trust any large gaming companies like them any longer, fool me once, twice, thrice, you canna fool me no more! 😉

 

Out of interest, does HC have an 'untouchable' backup of the current build we have access to, and/or another 'secret' hosting location they can fall back to, should the need arise to go rogue again? I would like to think that HC would have the foresight to make a bullet-proof escape vector possible for themselves, even if the game has to spring up somewhere else under a different name. Also, do we as players and supporters have any access to our hero data (an export at the very least), so we have a Plan B, in case of a worst-case scenario guys...? 

 

I would be amazed if NCSoft didn't have "guardrails" in place before sanctioning the licence.

 

There's a whole bunch of stuff around the IP rights of the game, making sure the Homecoming team do not bring NCSoft's name into disrepute etc etc and I believe without trawling through I'm pretty sure I read that there was no possibility of users being charged to play the game.

 

NCSoft lost a lot of goodwill in the shuttering of City of Heroes. Frankly as a PR exercise it couldn't have gone much more wrong for them. This does a hell of a lot to reverse that and make NCSoft look like the good guys once more, whilst still giving them a modicum of control over an IP that remains one step away from being feral. They are realists. This is a good outcome for them for minimal capital outlay and they look rosy.

[Lockely]

11 minutes ago, Scarlet Shocker said:

 

I would be amazed if NCSoft didn't have "guardrails" in place before sanctioning the licence.

 

There's a whole bunch of stuff around the IP rights of the game, making sure the Homecoming team do not bring NCSoft's name into disrepute etc etc and I believe without trawling through I'm pretty sure I read that there was no possibility of users being charged to play the game.

 

NCSoft lost a lot of goodwill in the shuttering of City of Heroes. Frankly as a PR exercise it couldn't have gone much more wrong for them. This does a hell of a lot to reverse that and make NCSoft look like the good guys once more, whilst still giving them a modicum of control over an IP that remains one step away from being feral. They are realists. This is a good outcome for them for minimal capital outlay and they look rosy.

 

My only hope is they see the love here and realize there are communities around all the games they've shuttered who would gladly do the same as Homecoming.

 

I would give almost anything to return to Wildstar and run Datascape with my guild once again.

[Scarlet Shocker]

1 minute ago, Lockely said:

 

My only hope is they see the love here and realize there are communities around all the games they've shuttered who would gladly do the same as Homecoming.

 

I would give almost anything to return to Wildstar and run Datascape with my guild once again.

 

I hear you.

 

I wouldn't say "never" but it's likely to be a while, if at all. But if this goes well, certainly the more enlightened IP owners might put measures in place to allow older games to flourish in perpetuity with fan caretakers

[JasperStone]

On 4/5/2024 at 3:12 PM, Sovera said:

Well, the problem, if I may devil advocate this, is that we're still going on hearsay. We hear from the devs it's a go, we hear from PC Magazine it's a go. We still haven't heard from the sole entity that would confirm it, and, at best, rely on 'but if NCsoft wasn't happy they would say something'. Which is not exactly ironclad proof.

Walks like a duck.

Talks like a duck.

ooooo...quacks like a duck.

...

I need more proof

[Sovera]

Just now, JasperStone said:

Walks like a duck.

Talks like a duck.

ooooo...quacks like a duck.

...

I need more proof

 

Well, I wasn't going to add more to this subject but since the little barbs keep on coming I'll add some more after all since some people seem obtuse to what a devil's advocate it.

 

When we claim something in this forum we usually ask for a dev to chime in, and when they have then it's the word of god and it's settled.

 

When there are lore doubts in GW2 and confirmation is asked because so much stuff is head-canon and a dev chimes then the matter is settled.

 

When confirmation is required in Blizzard forums a blue name is usually asked for, and when it replies the matter is settled.

 

 

In none of these are people from outside chiming in accepted as actual proof.

 

The point I was trying to make which is then lost in 'Sovera does not believe we actually have NCsoft's permission, hahaha, what a moron!' is that we have Homecoming word it is done, and a magazine. Do I actually expect NCsoft to make a press release about this? No. Do I assume Homecoming and the magazine are lying? Also no.

 

 

Perhaps it was my fault for assuming that 'devil's advocate' was a well known idea, but this is the same forum that had a whole brouhaha because niggardly had an N, an I, and two Gs so omg don't use that word.

[Glacier Peak]

24 minutes ago, Sovera said:

Do I actually expect NCsoft to make a press release about this?

@Sovera, I and I'm sure others, grasp what devil's advocate means.

 

I assume you read the article where a spokesperson from NC responded to the license announcement. That's more than has ever been said by NC publicly in over a decade about City of Heroes. I think it's beyond a reasonable doubt at this point, so devil's advocate should read the devil's in the details, if not. 

 

"NCSoft, too, had its reservations. "We were initially skeptical about their proposal," a spokesperson told PC Gamer. "To our knowledge, a AAA publisher/developer like NC West had never undertaken a non-commercial license of a sunset game. Ostensibly, such an undertaking would be too resource-intensive and risky to justify without benefiting a meaningful number of a game’s fans." 

 

Yet NCSoft wasn’t blind to the unusual fervour of City of Heroes veterans in the wake of the game’s shutdown. "This support created unique conditions in which evaluating Homecoming’s proposal about working together as a serious venture was not dismissed.""

 

"NCSoft appreciated the Homecoming leadership’s familiarity with City of Heroes’ lore and game operation; its dedicated staff, sophistication, and vision of where to take the server next. "From there we needed to subject Homecoming to meaningful guardrails in its operation of City of Heroes," NCSoft says. "And take steps to confirm that, as a practical matter, Homecoming was likely to abide by all guardrails we imposed." 

 

"Many back-and-forth conversations, "tire-kicking sessions" and contract drafts followed. Whatever guardrails the Homecoming team agreed to, they’re not telling—perhaps as a result of that professionalism that has gotten them this far. In the end, NCSoft was convinced. "Only once we believed they would be capable stewards of the City of Heroes IP did we begin exploring a license agreement," the publisher says."

 

Edited April 7 by Glacier Peak
more quotes

[JasperStone]

17 minutes ago, Sovera said:

 

Well, I wasn't going to add more to this subject but since the little barbs keep on coming I'll add some more after all since some people seem obtuse to what a devil's advocate it.

 

When we claim something in this forum we usually ask for a dev to chime in, and when they have then it's the word of god and it's settled.

 

When there are lore doubts in GW2 and confirmation is asked because so much stuff is head-canon and a dev chimes then the matter is settled.

 

When confirmation is required in Blizzard forums a blue name is usually asked for, and when it replies the matter is settled.

 

 

In none of these are people from outside chiming in accepted as actual proof.

 

The point I was trying to make which is then lost in 'Sovera does not believe we actually have NCsoft's permission, hahaha, what a moron!' is that we have Homecoming word it is done, and a magazine. Do I actually expect NCsoft to make a press release about this? No. Do I assume Homecoming and the magazine are lying? Also no.

 

 

Perhaps it was my fault for assuming that 'devil's advocate' was a well known idea, but this is the same forum that had a whole brouhaha because niggardly had an N, an I, and two Gs so omg don't use that word.

 

Due to my IRL work, I am well aware of what a devil's advocate is.

So, you do not need to educate me on the topic.

 

 

No barbs.

Only humor.