Avoiding Sloppy Writing in Alignment Tip Missions

[mechahamham]

It's no secret that some of the tip missions are based around ridiculous choices and feature writing that is... faulty, if not downright

BIZARRE.

 

A good example of the bizarre from "Dragon Embossed Journal":

Quote

The heroes of Paragon breath a sigh of relief, knowing that Sky Dragon is safe and sound - even if his reputation was somewhat hurt because of how overly cautious he was with Crey.

 

This feels odd to read, let alone repeat out loud.

 

A lot of missions are based around false dichotomy-type choices like this one from "Radio Distress Call":

Quote

HERO Destroy the Pulse Charges before they destroy part of the City!

VIGILANTE Ignore the charges and stop the Saboteur!

 

MOST of the game's content is concentrated on the fact it's an MMO. The players are strongly encouraged to form social and working relationships with others and to shore up each other's weaknesses in teams, leagues, and supergroups.

 

Yet, for these missions, you're suddenly supposed to act like you're the only character in the story. You can't pick up your cellphone and call a friend to cover the angles you're unable to.

 

Piecemeal's writing in "The Graveyard Shift" centered around the alignment point you earn in the "Viral Transmissions" mission is particularly good at avoiding this problem. You're awarded the point based on how you react to a bad situation, being trapped in the warehouse waiting for decontamination, and the choice you make regarding that situation.

 

I'm a very firm believer in that content should NOT be removed from the game, even if it's awkward. However, going forward, I think it's a good idea to model any future alignment missions around 'heat of the moment' choices and not false dichotomy choices. In a lot of cases, it would be as simple as adding a line like "You can't take the risk that the Big Bad will go free. You call a friend who's better suited to save the bus full of orphans while you set about hunting down the villain."

[Luminara]

12 minutes ago, mechahamham said:

It's no secret that some of the tip missions are based around ridiculous choices and feature writing that is... faulty, if not downright

BIZARRE.

 

A good example of the bizarre from "Dragon Embossed Journal":

Quote

The heroes of Paragon breath a sigh of relief, knowing that Sky Dragon is safe and sound - even if his reputation was somewhat hurt because of how overly cautious he was with Crey.

 

This feels odd to read, let alone repeat out loud.

 

Was he in the Amazon with your mom researching spiders right before she died?

[TheOtherTed]

1 hour ago, Luminara said:

 

Was he in the Amazon with your mom researching spiders right before she died?

I'm... amazed that I got the reference and could appreciate its applicability.

[pawstruck]

"False dichotomy" does not apply here. It's a philosophical term that attempts to undermine a logical problem by positing a third, hidden solution.

 

Obviously, CoX isn't saying "here are the only two solutions logically possible." It's just... a video game... and it cannot practically reproduce infinite options.

 

Limitations create freedom. No offense, but even your "phone a friend" option is just boring as hell. It provides no dramatic interest. It's like the guy in DnD who goes "Yeah? Well I just jump over all the bad guys, grab the gems, teleport home, and make out with Helen of Troy..!"

 

When I GM'd, there was always a nice stray meteor or lightning bolt available for players like that. 😆 

 

Tldr: The choices are interesting. They don't fit everyone's fanfic or ability to team. Sorry. I like 'em how they are.

Edited July 17 by pawstruck

[Greycat]

6 hours ago, mechahamham said:

MOST of the game's content is concentrated on the fact it's an MMO. The players are strongly encouraged to form social and working relationships with others and to shore up each other's weaknesses in teams, leagues, and supergroups.

 

 

Well... no. And even your solution ("You call a friend and") has the same problem I have with those missions - and have basically just waved away as things that don't really happen. They really railroad your character at times into doing things they *would not do.*  But there's a limit to how many choices and such they can give you. They figured out more as they developed the game more, but still... you're on rails.

[Sovera]

I agree. Heat of the moment are the best. Even if then there can still be roleplay nitpicking (can't save everyone? But I'm a speedster, I am super fast!) or biased moral choices we don't agree (in SWTOR I got dark side points for saving medical data that could save thousands, if not hundreds of thousands, over saving a single person dangling from a cliff).

 

But saying it doesn't work is also not quite so. We routinely have a Batman doing his best when he could just phone the Flash and have him clean everything in a couple of seconds, or Superman fighting magical creatures instead of phoning one of his magic friends to come clean it up.

 

 

But 'heat of the moment' avoids that measured response. It's happening NOW, gotta do something NOW, seconds to decide, go go go!

[Grouchybeast]

2 hours ago, Sovera said:

But saying it doesn't work is also not quite so. We routinely have a Batman doing his best when he could just phone the Flash and have him clean everything in a couple of seconds, or Superman fighting magical creatures instead of phoning one of his magic friends to come clean it up.

 

Exactly.  It depends on what you're expecting from City of Heroes.  If you're expecting flawlessly tight storylines and deep exploration of ethical dilemmas, maybe not here.  If you're looking for a passable simulation of comic book plots and morality, not so bad!

[tidge]

I rather like the TIP missions, for all alignments across both sides. My only complaint is that it isn't possible to solo the TIPs once you have out-leveled them.

[Yomo Kimyata]

A preposition is a bad thing to end a sentence with.

 

[jprewitt73]

1 minute ago, Yomo Kimyata said:

A preposition is a bad thing to end a sentence with.

 

 

You should be ashamed Yomo...

 

I tend to just kind of assume my character is doing those things anyway. It's not a perfect system, but I'm happy with it. The dialogue may not always line up with what my particular character would say at that moment, but in my mind it makes more sense anyway. 

 

[Yomo Kimyata]

I am hardly the first to boldly split infinitives.

[jprewitt73]

[UltraAlt]

On 7/16/2024 at 2:40 PM, mechahamham said:

Yet, for these missions, you're suddenly supposed to act like you're the only character in the story.

 

If the mission that is picked is yours, you are always the "main" character.

The rest of the team is always "joining you" to complete your missions regardless of they are tips or not.

You could discuss with your teammates if you are going to pick one alignment of missions over another.

 

I'm not going to go hunting down the quotes any more than I just tried to do, but, essentially, when you are running a characters' mission, you are entering their time stream based on that character's progress through the leveling process. 

And, yes, I understand that you can co-op complete missions, etc.

 

If from a personal RP point-of-view, you are a hero and do not want to be involved with vigilante activities, you could just run your missions or ask  your team leader and team mates to let you know if they are going to be running vigilante tips and quit the team if they are and you don't want to participate. 

I can understand that motivation.

 

I have a friend that insists - pretty much every character - they are going to go rogue/villain in order to unlock the Patron pools. Most of my characters - due to character conception - simply will not participate. That is not to say, that I don't often end up switching to a rogue or villain to help them out (I actually only have one villain .. the rest of my unsavory characters are rogues).

 

On 7/16/2024 at 2:40 PM, mechahamham said:

I'm a very firm believer in that content should NOT be removed from the game, even if it's awkward. However, going forward, I think it's a good idea to model any future alignment missions around 'heat of the moment' choices and not false dichotomy choices.

 

Either way, your hero could be dragged into a vigilante mission by the mission holder ... simply based on their choice.

 

There is no "false" dichotomy.

The Tip missions were put into the game in order to change alignments. That is why they were added.

They are to move the character's alignment meter toward one point on another on the alignment bar (along with adding more mission to the game in general).

The need to be clear which way the "needle" is traveling on the alignment bar, the choice is made clear where you are moving toward on that bar by doing a tip - and that choice is decided upon by the player picking the tip and deciding which direction they are going to go with it.

 

With Null the Gull, the main point of the Tips missions is more or less null and void.

[Shenanigunner]

21 hours ago, Yomo Kimyata said:

A preposition is a bad thing to end a sentence with.

 

Not since maybe the reign of Queen Victoria. Utterly BS grammar rule.

[Scarlet Shocker]

It's hard to deny that some content is very poorly written in this game, just as some is outstanding.

 

But that is part of the joy of the game - it's quirkiness and inconsistencies. Repeatable missions such as these are meant to be cheap and throwaway, more to achieve a quick end rather than to be studied and digested with joy.

 

I think rather than change anything simply accept that it is what it is and don't fret about it.

[lemming]

12 hours ago, UltraAlt said:

I'm not going to go hunting down the quotes any more than I just tried to do, but, essentially, when you are running a characters' mission, you are entering their time stream based on that character's progress through the leveling process. 

This one?

" The active player of your team is now <MISSION HOLDER>. You are currently experiencing the world created by that player's deeds."

[kelika2]

if cell phones worked all horror movies would be like 15 minutes or so long. including intro and credits

 

and as someone whos gotten back into Dying Light 2 recently and constantly getting zero responses when calling for help with a mission with their ingame mechanics I dont see that ever happening with a positive attitude in city of heroes.  i mean sure if you dangle some badges in front of some peoples faces they might answer the call, but once they get their badge you wont see them again.

 

And, I cant help but feel in another reality a similar thread was made that this is too pre70s DC-comics where everyone is happy and everyone gets a happy end and not like my spidermans where every action has an opposite reaction because reasons.

[cranebump]

12 hours ago, UltraAlt said:

With Null the Gull, the main point of the Tips missions is more or less null and void.

True. Though playing all the way through the alignment mish grants you merits (and various badges, I think). There's also alignment powers that can be handy, in some instances. I have a troller who has the Duplicity power. She has 2 other confuses, so it got folded into the chain (giving her 3 AoE confuses iirc). That said, I think you get the alignment abilities (over time) pretty much by staying in alignment?

[srmalloy]

On 7/17/2024 at 12:03 PM, Yomo Kimyata said:

A preposition is a bad thing to end a sentence with.

 

That's like the justifications that have been fabricated to 'explain' why split infinitives ("to boldly go") are bad. One of the more ridiculous was "Latin doesn't split infinitives, so English shouldn't either" -- ignoring the fact that they're different languages and don't have to obey the same rules, Latin infinitives are all single words -- you can't split a Latin infinitive, so the 'prohibition' is meaningless.

 

"This is the type of arrant pedantry up with which I will not put!" -- apocryphally attributed to Winston Churchill

[Ukase]

Interesting...sort of. 

There's a ton of writing in game where npcs will say things that I wouldn't think a normal person would say. But then, Paragon City isn't a normal world, is it? 

But, let me just say this: Regardless, if the dialogue in certain content disturbs your inner grammar nazi, (or whatever), please feel free to run the new story arc on Brainstorm and go over that before it becomes published. 

I tested it for content and such, and it never occurred to me to use Grammarly to ensure everything was proper. I didn't see anything blatant that stuck with me, but as we all know, I'm prone to be obtuse. 

[Go0gleplex]

Well...Tip missions aren't the only missions that have questionable grammar or plot writing in them as the OP points out. However, I don't see the point of worrying about much of it since this is a comic book style genre game. I mean...the writing isn't as questionable as some of the map layouts and buildings which in a more realistic world would never be laid out or built the way they are. Skyscrapers that develop more than a 20-25 degree lean are destined to collapse and fall yet there they stand all over Fault and Boom. *shrug* 

 

Rather than worrying about writing, I can see taking advantage of the Tip missions to trigger 'instances' happening in response much like the Building Fire events. So say you go off to destroy Frosty's trophies...while that is happening, elsewhere in the city we have a mob of Frosty and friends suddenly causing mayhem in the streets (and the surrounding heroes on site swarm in to wipe 'em out). Kinda like a couple of the events in Nova....put down the protesters or keep the ghouls from having their mass break out. So if a particular Tip mission is dealt with 20 times or so, the reciprical event triggers.   

 

🍍

[Ravenplume]

On 7/18/2024 at 9:05 AM, Shenanigunner said:

 

Not since maybe the reign of Queen Victoria. Utterly BS grammar rule.

 

I believe that the correct response to that correction is to simply repeat the statement, but instead of finishing with a period, finish with a comma and "jerk" instead. (or something heavier hitting...)

[Shenanigunner]

3 hours ago, Ravenplume said:

 

I believe that the correct response to that correction is to simply repeat the statement, but instead of finishing with a period, finish with a comma and "jerk" instead. (or something heavier hitting...)

 

As a writer, editor, and publisher from a family of educators, it makes me weep that if someone knows one (1) grammar rule, it's that one.

[Zhym]

On 7/16/2024 at 6:40 PM, mechahamham said:

A good example of the bizarre from "Dragon Embossed Journal":

Quote

The heroes of Paragon breath a sigh of relief, knowing that Sky Dragon is safe and sound - even if his reputation was somewhat hurt because of how overly cautious he was with Crey.

I agree with you on at least one point: that should be "breathe," not "breath."

 

If I had secretly found a login to the CoX dev servers—oh, the number of grammar corrections I'd make.