Wait... no Super Strength for Scrappers?

[Deuce Spade]

If we ever do get Super Strength on a scrapper, I am going to go nuts making new toons.  I mean, more than I regularly do.

[Bill Z Bubba]

I have one SS user and he's a joke bunny character. I don't see creating another just cuz it gets ported to scrappers. And, no, it's not just the rage crash. The whole set except for foot stomp annoys me.

[Murcielago]

Page 3 is in beta and Scrappers still don't get SS 😞

[Bill Z Bubba]

14 hours ago, Murcielago said:

Page 3 is in beta and Scrappers still don't get SS 😞

 

But they did get stone melee. Between that and energy melee, it's only a matter of time and we even get a good idea on how'd they might do it. Rage will be turned into a high end toggle and KOBlow will only crit for an extra 28% damage but get double mag on the hold. No need to alter SS on brutes and tanks at all that way.

[MoonSheep]

47 minutes ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

 

But they did get stone melee. Between that and energy melee, it's only a matter of time and we even get a good idea on how'd they might do it. Rage will be turned into a high end toggle and KOBlow will only crit for an extra 28% damage but get double mag on the hold. No need to alter SS on brutes and tanks at all that way.

 

ooh, excited to see what stone melee is like on scrappers

[Murcielago]

13 hours ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

 

But they did get stone melee. Between that and energy melee, it's only a matter of time and we even get a good idea on how'd they might do it. Rage will be turned into a high end toggle and KOBlow will only crit for an extra 28% damage but get double mag on the hold. No need to alter SS on brutes and tanks at all that way.

Yes but still no SS 😞

[Murcielago]

12 hours ago, MoonSheep said:

 

ooh, excited to see what stone melee is like on scrappers

Its performance is pretty rocky so far. 

[MoonSheep]

15 hours ago, Murcielago said:

Its performance is pretty rocky so far. 

 

during the next rikti invasion i’m locking you outside

[Without_Pause]

On 10/23/2021 at 4:05 PM, Bill Z Bubba said:

I have one SS user and he's a joke bunny character. I don't see creating another just cuz it gets ported to scrappers. And, no, it's not just the rage crash. The whole set except for foot stomp annoys me.

I got a SS/elec up to 42 and realized just how boring SS is. Foot Stomp is amazing, but... I decided to keep the build around and maybe come back to it. 

[Haijinx]

On 10/23/2021 at 12:30 AM, SomeGuy said:

A few rules have been broken since November 2011. A lot of people weren't there when SS got nerfed. Rage needs to be un-nerfed and re-tooled, regardless if it gets ported to scrappers. SS is actually pretty bad, performance wise, without Rage. Think nerf Energy Melee level of performance if you don't take Rage.

 

There was no nerf.  The exact same crash happened on live servers.

 

There was a crash avoidance bug that was fixed. 

[SomeGuy]

9 hours ago, Haijinx said:

 

There was no nerf.  The exact same crash happened on live servers.

 

There was a crash avoidance bug that was fixed. 

 

 

Don't do this convenient loophole crap. I was there when it happened. The crash was ALWAYS there. What wasn't always there during the crash was the -20% penalty. That was allowed to happen after shutdown.

 

The exact crash absolutely did not happen on live.

Edited November 16, 2021 by SomeGuy

[Bill Z Bubba]

9 hours ago, Haijinx said:

There was no nerf.  The exact same crash happened on live servers.

 

There was a crash avoidance bug that was fixed. 

 

9 minutes ago, SomeGuy said:

Don't do this convenient loophole crap. I was there when it happened. The crash was ALWAYS there. What wasn't always there during the crash was the -20% penalty. That was allowed to happen after shutdown.

 

The exact crash absolutely did not happen on live.

 

Semantics is what it is. A change in functionality that makes something worse than it was is a nerf. You can call it a fix all day long but it doesn't matter at all.

[Haijinx]

37 minutes ago, SomeGuy said:

 

 

Don't do this convenient loophole crap. I was there when it happened. The crash was ALWAYS there. What wasn't always there during the crash was the -20% penalty. That was allowed to happen after shutdown.

 

The exact crash absolutely did not happen on live.

 

Sure it did.  If you hit Rage ONCE .. and then let it expire.  Then the crash happened exactly like it does on homecoming. 

 

But on live if you hit Rage AGAIN before Rage expired, even by just a fraction of a second, the defense crash did not happen.  That is what they fixed.  And that is what they said they fixed.    

 

Thing was even on SOs you put two SO's recharge reduction in rage and left it on auto.  Which put you somewhere around 112-117 seconds, leaving a couple seconds of overlap.  So you basically never saw the defense crash playing the game.   

 

There is no crap involved, and a lot of us were there.    

 

You are calling it a Nerf.  That's not a Nerf.  Its a potential problem I guess.  But its not a Nerf, since the fix was implementing the way it was supposed to work from the beginning.  It was literally written into the game.  From a game design standpoint it was fixing a bug that resulted in an unintentional exploit.  But you want them to un-nerf something that wasn't a nerf.   

 

I'd suggest that you could say the actual crash was not really ever playtested until Homecoming due to said bug, and maybe the crash is overly harsh in actual practice.  Especially to Brutes.     

[Haijinx]

42 minutes ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

 

 

Semantics is what it is. A change in functionality that makes something worse than it was is a nerf. You can call it a fix all day long but it doesn't matter at all.

 

RPG Game Design is just Semantics though.  Everything is completely arbitrary.  They literally just make the rules up.  For COH, I'm not even entirely convinced they plotted the powers out on any sort of graphs or spreadsheets.  

 

The Rule as they wrote it said one thing.  The computer program that was supposed to implement the rule was bugged.  So the Rule was not actually applied in totality.   

 

Its a bit like how no one in Monopoly ever actually actions off properties if someone lands on one decides not to buy it.  Its the rule.  Its right in the rulebook.  In tournaments its implemented.  But I've never actually played with anyone that uses it.  And no computer game version of Monopoly uses it. 

 

It probably FEELS a lot like a nerf.  But to be a Nerf, the actual rule would have had to be changed.  And it wasn't.  

[UltraAlt]

On 7/5/2019 at 8:06 PM, Omnicron said:

Anyone care to weigh in? Is there something I'm missing?

 

Batman is a scrapper. Superman is a tank.

[Gobbledygook]

4 hours ago, UltraAlt said:

 

Batman is a scrapper. Superman is a tank.

Wouldn't the Bat, and all of his sidekicks by extension, be Stalkers?

[BrandX]

2 hours ago, Gobbledygook said:

Wouldn't the Bat, and all of his sidekicks by extension, be Stalkers?

 

They could just as easily be either or.

 

People like to say Stalker, at least somewhat, due to low HP to signify being human and no powers.

 

 

[UltraAlt]

5 hours ago, Gobbledygook said:

Wouldn't the Bat, and all of his sidekicks by extension, be Stalkers?

 

Sure, they could be considered Stalkers, but those were originally villain-only archetypes.

(I also figure that Batman et al are using the Stealth pool versus being Assassins)

Your point is however noted, and I agree on some levels in regards to some portrayals of the characters more than others.

 

I was trying to prove the point as to why tanks had super strength and  scrappers did not.

 

Batman isn't going to grab a hunk of concrete/boulder out of the ground and throw it at someone.

 

Edited November 16, 2021 by UltraAlt

[SeraphimKensai]

5 minutes ago, UltraAlt said:

Batman isn't going to grab a hunk of concrete/boulder out of the ground and throw it at someone.

Maybe not but he does use explosive batarangs that leave people covered in rubble nonetheless. More to the point Spider-Man is more of a scrapper and he does have super strength, even punched the Hulk into orbit once with the Power Cosmic boosting him.

[SomeGuy]

12 hours ago, Haijinx said:

 

 

 

I'd suggest that you could say the actual crash was not really ever playtested until Homecoming due to said bug, and maybe the crash is overly harsh in actual practice.  Especially to Brutes.     

 

If you're suggesting this then you're wrong. The nerf was pushed through without playtesting, then there was an uproar about "fixing" a legacy set the ORIGINAL devs knew about and purposely left alone.

 

Rage needed to be retooled, but this killed SS flat. You'd see SS brute/tankers all the time because of how OP Rage was. Then it went to nothing. Clearly, a balance wasn't achieved.

[UltraAlt]

12 minutes ago, SeraphimKensai said:

More to the point Spider-Man is more of a scrapper and he does have super strength, even punched the Hulk into orbit once with the Power Cosmic boosting him.

 

I think Spiderman is more of a tank.

I agree that Spider-man does have super strength. Not to the degree of Superman, but strength far superior to "moral" men.

More of a scrapper? No.

He can take far more damage than a scrapper. he can throw around cars if he wanted to. He is more of a tank than a scrapper. Perhaps more of a brute, but that is a villain archetype and the thread is about scrappers gaining a tanker power set.

 

If you give super strength to scrappers then why not give it to stalkers, dominators, and blasters as well? 

I think this falls into the same area as why scrappers don't have taunt.

 

[SeraphimKensai]

5 minutes ago, UltraAlt said:

If you give super strength to scrappers then why not give it to stalkers, dominators, and blasters as well? 

I think this falls into the same area as why scrappers don't have taunt.

 

I'm honestly not opposed to having sets for stalkers with a couple changes to fit in an AS (maybe call it Sucker Punch?) and a placate to make it fall in line . Even making an Blaster Secondary or Domi Secondary could be interesting, as tons of characters across every publisher have varying degrees of super strength. We have Blaster Blapper builds already what's one more?

[Vanden]

1 minute ago, SeraphimKensai said:

Even making an Blaster Secondary or Domi Secondary could be interesting

 

Can't give Super Strength to Blasters, Knockout Blow is already in their Leviathan Mastery

[wjrasmussen]

On 10/13/2019 at 7:01 AM, Murcielago said:

I want Super Energy Strength Melee, but only if its made up of the worst powers of each set.

/clap

[Gobbledygook]

37 minutes ago, UltraAlt said:

 

I think Spiderman is more of a tank.

I agree that Spider-man does have super strength. Not to the degree of Superman, but strength far superior to "moral" men.

More of a scrapper? No.

He can take far more damage than a scrapper. he can throw around cars if he wanted to. He is more of a tank than a scrapper. Perhaps more of a brute, but that is a villain archetype and the thread is about scrappers gaining a tanker power set.

 

If you give super strength to scrappers then why not give it to stalkers, dominators, and blasters as well? 

I think this falls into the same area as why scrappers don't have taunt.

 

I took this idea when CoV first came out and made my first brute.

A SS/SR that was operating undercover while working with Longbow.

Man, was that guy fun.