I don't get why this is so much better than CO

[Galaxy Brain]

2 hours ago, Heraclea said:

This game needs that nonsense like it needs a second, evil head. 

hey, you leave Redside alone >:(

[Frostbiter]

I'll admit some of the block leads in CO are charming, especially the Booms and Freems but the wire-frames and ground patches are immersion breaking to me. That and they seem like a work-around for the block systems limitations making twitch reflex blocking too difficult to pull off without them. I get enough of that stuff in ESO and I dislike it there too.

[Indystruck]

My friend who plays this game with severe, crippling arthritis has not died in the blue in Apex's TF.

 

ZeeHero, on the other hand, well.... I have trouble believing anyone who did savage raiding in FFXIV could fail the mechanic of "don't stand in the blue" so many times in a row. I don't see how I'm supposed to buy you doing all the mechanics properly for Neo Exdeath's Grand Cross when the most elementary MMO mechanic of "don't stand in hurt juice" evades you.  It's good that someone who can't grasp how to not disintegrate in the face of a damage patch has no bearing on adjustments of the game content. Even the AI in this game knows better than to just stand in patches.

 

 

Edited June 25, 2020 by Indystruck

[Ukase]

For me, I always felt like you couldn't serve "two masters". Every minute you spent playing one game was opportunity to play another game that you missed. 

I could never understand why anyone would play Star Wars or WoW,  and then come back to CoH and say they "took a break" and came back right before the game shut down. I always blamed those people for the closure. If they'd remained subscribers, just maybe, the game would have stayed open. 

So, when the game finally shut down, I looked for a substitute. I tried Perfect World, WoW, Ryft, and CO. CO was close, but I simply couldn't fathom how to boost my character's abilities - as in, I was trying to figure out how to "slot" a given attack to make it more accurate, dish out more damage, etc. I couldn't figure out where to find out how to do this. There certainly wasn't a tutorial in game that explained it - or if there was, my character never came across it. So, for me, it was a dud. I think I stopped at level 12 or so, because I couldn't figure out how to improve my character. 

That's probably more telling about me than about CO, though. But, that's my reason for thinking CoH was better. Things were more clearly explained. There's a help channel for things that you're not clear about. I certainly never noticed anything like that in CO. It may have been there, but I didn't notice it. CoH makes the help channel very noticeable, in my opinion. 

As for the other games, I can't fathom why anyone would use WASD or a mouse to move their character. The arrow keys are far more intuitive, and easier for me to use. CoH has the ability to rig up different keys to do just about anything - macros, binds, - whatever you like. I really wanted to play Marvel, but with click to move or whatever it was, I couldn't get into it. 

 

 

[Twisted Toon]

40 minutes ago, Ukase said:

For me, I always felt like you couldn't serve "two masters". Every minute you spent playing one game was opportunity to play another game that you missed. 

I could never understand why anyone would play Star Wars or WoW,  and then come back to CoH and say they "took a break" and came back right before the game shut down. I always blamed those people for the closure. If they'd remained subscribers, just maybe, the game would have stayed open. 

So, when the game finally shut down, I looked for a substitute. I tried Perfect World, WoW, Ryft, and CO. CO was close, but I simply couldn't fathom how to boost my character's abilities - as in, I was trying to figure out how to "slot" a given attack to make it more accurate, dish out more damage, etc. I couldn't figure out where to find out how to do this. There certainly wasn't a tutorial in game that explained it - or if there was, my character never came across it. So, for me, it was a dud. I think I stopped at level 12 or so, because I couldn't figure out how to improve my character. 

That's probably more telling about me than about CO, though. But, that's my reason for thinking CoH was better. Things were more clearly explained. There's a help channel for things that you're not clear about. I certainly never noticed anything like that in CO. It may have been there, but I didn't notice it. CoH makes the help channel very noticeable, in my opinion. 

As for the other games, I can't fathom why anyone would use WASD or a mouse to move their character. The arrow keys are far more intuitive, and easier for me to use. CoH has the ability to rig up different keys to do just about anything - macros, binds, - whatever you like. I really wanted to play Marvel, but with click to move or whatever it was, I couldn't get into it. 

 

 

Back when CoH was live, I played it and Star Trek Online. Those were the only MMOs that I played on a regular basis.

I've tried several others, TSW, WoW, DnD Online, CO, DC Online, ESO. None of them really meshed with me.

 

I also reconfigure my keybinds to use either the arrow keys or the number pad for movement. Usually its the number pad.

Although, I used to use a Nostromo gamepad, so I didn't really have to monkey with the keybinds all that much.

And voice attack really helped with STO. I never could get it to work well with CoH though.

[RCU7115]

1 hour ago, Ukase said:

For me, I always felt like you couldn't serve "two masters". Every minute you spent playing one game was opportunity to play another game that you missed. 

I could never understand why anyone would play Star Wars or WoW,  and then come back to CoH and say they "took a break" and came back right before the game shut down. I always blamed those people for the closure. If they'd remained subscribers, just maybe, the game would have stayed open. 

So, when the game finally shut down, I looked for a substitute. I tried Perfect World, WoW, Ryft, and CO. CO was close, but I simply couldn't fathom how to boost my character's abilities - as in, I was trying to figure out how to "slot" a given attack to make it more accurate, dish out more damage, etc. I couldn't figure out where to find out how to do this. There certainly wasn't a tutorial in game that explained it - or if there was, my character never came across it. So, for me, it was a dud. I think I stopped at level 12 or so, because I couldn't figure out how to improve my character. 

That's probably more telling about me than about CO, though. But, that's my reason for thinking CoH was better. Things were more clearly explained. There's a help channel for things that you're not clear about. I certainly never noticed anything like that in CO. It may have been there, but I didn't notice it. CoH makes the help channel very noticeable, in my opinion. 

As for the other games, I can't fathom why anyone would use WASD or a mouse to move their character. The arrow keys are far more intuitive, and easier for me to use. CoH has the ability to rig up different keys to do just about anything - macros, binds, - whatever you like. I really wanted to play Marvel, but with click to move or whatever it was, I couldn't get into it. 

 

 

I tried CO but I couldn't figure out how to invert or switch the controls for when I tried to move and look. I use the WSAD keys, well actually just the WS to go forward and backwards. I use the spacebar to jump while my right hand controls the direction with my trackball mouse L/R with my thumb.

[Dazl]

If CO is "so much better than COH", why wasn't it a bigger financial success?  When COH closed down, why didn't everyone flock to CO instead? Because it's not a better game. Sure it improved on somethings, but it just doesn't have that COH magic. Heck we didn't even need a COH2, if they would have updated and fixed the coding, improved the graphics, and added other cool features like new AT's and other QoL items, the live version of this game would still have been going strong.

[Haijinx]

CO is a Newer style MMO, and so no one teams.

 

COX people always teamed.  

 

That's the main thing. 

 

Somehow MMOs became single player games with some co-op instead of mainly Team based activities .. 

[Bill Z Bubba]

1 hour ago, Haijinx said:

COX people always teamed. 

I soloed 95% of the time back before the snap and started playing in Issue 1. I actually team far more now than I ever did back then. So "some" or maybe even "most" always teamed but not all. Some of us actually quit playing when the incarnate stuff was all locked behind teaming. Being able to solo it 100% now has been glorious.

 

Edit: As I always put it back then, MMO doesn't mean you have to team, it only means that you can.

Edited June 26, 2020 by Bill Z Bubba

[MTeague]

17 minutes ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

I soloed 95% of the time back before the snap and started playing in Issue 1. I actually team far more now than I ever did back then. So "some" or maybe even "most" always teamed but not all. Some of us actually quit playing when the incarnate stuff was all locked behind teaming. Being able to solo it 100% now has been glorious.

 

Edit: As I always put it back then, MMO doesn't mean you have to team, it only means that you can.

I teamed half / solo'd half.  

 

I admit, I solo'd more towards the end of CoH Live.  Some of that was just XP had become so easy to get and I didn't want to outlevel entire tiers of contacts as I gained xp.  Sure, Ouro is there, but I just like doing a FEW story arcs in each level range, and the mayhem/safeguard, as I level up.  It's a thing, and it is so whether or not it is logical.

 

But early in, XP came slowly enough that I had zero problems doing my own missions AND helping on teams, and still not wildly outlevelling things every time I turned around.

 

I also had far more tolerance for repeated wipes on things like Oldschool Posi.  Tolerance I gained in EverQuest and WoW, because honestly compared to those games, dying in CoH barely counted as a speedbump. The team goal was still in front of us, and I still wanted to finish the overarching goal of the TF.  When people left after like 3 wipes on oldschool Posi. I just told myself they must have NEVER done any other kind of MMO ever before.

[Primantis]

On 6/24/2020 at 11:21 AM, Heraclea said:

Blocking tactics assume that you are familiar with mobs' behavior the first time you run into them. They also mean one more demand on your attention in the middle of all the chaos.  One more thing that says 'stop whatever you're doing and go do something else!'  This game needs that nonsense like it needs a second, evil head. 

 

Much better to have toggle deflection that just works. 

 

 

In some games, yes. very much so!

 

However, to be fair, CO gave you plenty of warning and a heads up of when to block. The mobs would get a huge exclamation point over their head and starting an obvious wind up animation; which was your queue to block. It was quite forgiving, we aren't talking Dark Souls-level of reflexes here. Even if it was your very first time fighting a boss or mob, the game let you know when to block.

 

Still it could be overwhelming if there were several stronger mobs at once! However that would usually be the players fault for gathering so many xD

 

(You could also get juggled IIRC! As blocking was the only way to prevent the knock back, as I don't remember the defensive passives having any innate KB resistance like we have here in CoH)

Edited June 26, 2020 by Primantis

[Haijinx]

9 hours ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

I soloed 95% of the time back before the snap and started playing in Issue 1. I actually team far more now than I ever did back then. So "some" or maybe even "most" always teamed but not all. Some of us actually quit playing when the incarnate stuff was all locked behind teaming. Being able to solo it 100% now has been glorious.

 

Edit: As I always put it back then, MMO doesn't mean you have to team, it only means that you can.

If you mostly solo - then the change in MMOs won't affect you nearly as much.  

 

 

[Peacemoon]

The sad thing about MMOs is when they get turned off you can’t play them anymore.

My old favourite childhood games I can still load and play if I wanted. Like Streets of Rage or Sonic or Tomb Raider.

When City of Heroes got shutdown it was like a little piece of me was stolen and I never expected to get it back.

So even if you play mostly solo, an MMO going can be quite a sad event. Unless I’m misunderstanding the conversation!

[Bill Z Bubba]

3 hours ago, Peacemoon said:

The sad thing about MMOs is when they get turned off you can’t play them anymore.

My old favourite childhood games I can still load and play if I wanted. Like Streets of Rage or Sonic or Tomb Raider.

When City of Heroes got shutdown it was like a little piece of me was stolen and I never expected to get it back.

So even if you play mostly solo, an MMO going can be quite a sad event. Unless I’m misunderstanding the conversation!

 

I don't think you're misunderstanding anything. Even though I had quit again, I was back for the shutdown as soon as I was informed of it and got in as much playtime as I could.

 

I really farkin missed this game while it was gone and, yes, I hold some resentment for those that kept it running in private when they could have shared the joy with so many instead of being selfish bastards.

[Hyperstrike]

11 hours ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

I really farkin missed this game while it was gone and, yes, I hold some resentment for those that kept it running in private when they could have shared the joy with so many instead of being selfish bastards.

To play Devil's Advocate.
The game came back during a time when community servers were being shut down as fast as they popped up.

Do you REALLY think NCSoft would have countenanced such a thing 6-12 weeks after they shut it down?

Can you REALLY blame these people for being paranoid about protecting their efforts?

My understanding of the system is that it was, technically, open to all.  But you had to be invited by someone who trusted you.  And you couldn't be advertising that you were playing.

Heck, the only reason you're playing NOW is that someone decided to be a buddy-fucker.

And, luckily for you, the environment for this type of thing is MUCH different than it was in 2012-13.

[Apparition]

Yep.  Look at the Tabula Rasa emulator.  NCSoft shut it down in 2009.  In 2013, an emulator for Tabula Rasa started up... and when NCSoft got wind of it, they immediately nuked it and salted the earth.  That was four years after the shutdown.  That's why SCoRE kept Resurgence so secretive, because if NCSoft got wind of it back in 2013, they would have nuked that and salted the earth as well.

[Charistoph]

On 6/25/2020 at 9:46 AM, Ukase said:

For me, I always felt like you couldn't serve "two masters". Every minute you spent playing one game was opportunity to play another game that you missed. 

I could never understand why anyone would play Star Wars or WoW,  and then come back to CoH and say they "took a break" and came back right before the game shut down. I always blamed those people for the closure. If they'd remained subscribers, just maybe, the game would have stayed open. 

....

As for the other games, I can't fathom why anyone would use WASD or a mouse to move their character. The arrow keys are far more intuitive, and easier for me to use. CoH has the ability to rig up different keys to do just about anything - macros, binds, - whatever you like. I really wanted to play Marvel, but with click to move or whatever it was, I couldn't get into it. 

 

 

For the first, it is because I am the master of my dollar, and the game is not a master of me.  I could only afford one subscription at a time, so it was spread out across 4-5 different games over CoH's life, each of which I would get burned out from time to time.  My first MMORPG was Earth & Beyond.  It was closed shortly before CoH launched because EA bought Westwood and it didn't match Everquest's numbers after a year.  I got on to Dark Age of Camelot at some point before City of Heroes and it took up most of my time before City of Heroes launched.  I got in to Warcraft because I was a fan of the RTS games, and Old Republic because I was a fan of the RPGs.  Toss in adventures in different MMORPGs over the rest of the time, including Tabula Rasa (which had an amazing Collector's Edition box that I held on to for years).

 

As to why I use WASD to move my character?  Because I am right-handed and use my mouse with my right hand.  This let's my left hand be in a good typing position as well as use basic keybinds for abilities using Shift, Alt, and Ctrl.  Part of it also is training from FPS like Half-Life and Quake (which uses mouse view), which I had to learn completely different from using the arrow keys in Wolfenstein and Doom (which didn't really need any mouse view).  If I was left-handed, the situation may be quite different.

[Apparition]

On 6/25/2020 at 12:46 PM, Ukase said:

For me, I always felt like you couldn't serve "two masters". Every minute you spent playing one game was opportunity to play another game that you missed. 

I could never understand why anyone would play Star Wars or WoW,  and then come back to CoH and say they "took a break" and came back right before the game shut down. I always blamed those people for the closure. If they'd remained subscribers, just maybe, the game would have stayed open. 

 

 

 

Word is, that is why NCSoft canned City of Heroes.  When DC Universe Online came out in January 2011, the number of City of Heroes subscribers took a big hit.  I know a lot of CoH players didn't/don't like DCUO, but a lot of CoH players did.  When Star Wars: The Old Republic landed in December 2011, the number of City of Heroes subscribers took an even bigger hit.  It was so bad that CoH was barely profitable.  Yeah, yeah.  "It was profitable!"  Barely.  Then when Marvel and Gazillion announced Marvel Heroes in 2012, NCSoft saw the writing on the wall for City of Heroes and decided to close it down before it stopped being even barely profitable to save face.

 

FWIW, I took periodic breaks from City of Heroes to prevent burn out... playing Tabula Rasa, DC Universe Online, and Star Wars: The Old Republic.  But I maintained both of my CoH subscriptions during those breaks.

Edited June 27, 2020 by Apparition

[Patti]

Has anyone ever compiled all the rumours surrounding the closure in one place?

[Ukase]

5 hours ago, Charistoph said:

 

As to why I use WASD to move my character?  Because I am right-handed and use my mouse with my right hand.  This let's my left hand be in a good typing position as well as use basic keybinds for abilities using Shift, Alt, and Ctrl.  Part of it also is training from FPS like Half-Life and Quake (which uses mouse view), which I had to learn completely different from using the arrow keys in Wolfenstein and Doom (which didn't really need any mouse view).  If I was left-handed, the situation may be quite different.

Because I'm right handed, my right hand is on the arrow keys to move my character, with my left on the number row atop the keyboard for attacks. I only use the mouse to click open a door or a glowie. It just seemed intuitive to me - and when those other games didn't have that option, I just uninstalled them. 

[Frostbiter]

47 minutes ago, Patti said:

Has anyone ever compiled all the rumours surrounding the closure in one place?

I'm sure it would be entertaining and who knows? One of them might actually be truth adjacent. 

 

Personally, I've always felt that CoH was too different than their other IPs and despite running at a small profit it was their black sheep of the family. They may have looked upon it as a loss of face to keep operating it.

[Patti]

Yeah.   Custom controls is absolutely huge and important.   It means I can play even though I have physical challenges.

[Chris24601]

29 minutes ago, Ukase said:

Because I'm right handed, my right hand is on the arrow keys to move my character, with my left on the number row atop the keyboard for attacks. I only use the mouse to click open a door or a glowie. It just seemed intuitive to me - and when those other games didn't have that option, I just uninstalled them. 

For me, this setup dates back to DOOM, the old Dark Forces FPS and Mechwarrior 2;  arrow keys for movement, number row for weapon selection, space for jump/up, x for crouch/down.

 

The main reason why I mention Mechwarrior 2 though is that because of how it’s jump jets worked (they were fully directional vs. later versions and used the inverted “T” on the that block of six keys to handle jump jet steering just like the arrows controlled ground steering) I got into the habit of binding commands to those keys because they’re easy to reach while still steering with the arrows (that CoH also pauses your movement when you use powers makes it even less of a hassle).

 

To this day Insert up there is always “Target Nearest Enemy” and Delete, Home, End, PgUp and PgDn are my core attacks.

Edited June 27, 2020 by Chris24601

[Communistpenguin]

3 hours ago, Patti said:

Has anyone ever compiled all the rumours surrounding the closure in one place?

The ones I heard:

 

1) NC soft spent so much promoting Guild wars that they needed to cut something to stay in the black. CoH was chosen because it was an older game that barely made a profit and it failed in Korea.

2) NC Soft was originally interested in making CoH2, but Paragon Studios burned them in some fashion. Using the money to develop other in house projects and not taking notes from the publisher or something.

[Charistoph]

17 hours ago, Ukase said:

Because I'm right handed, my right hand is on the arrow keys to move my character, with my left on the number row atop the keyboard for attacks. I only use the mouse to click open a door or a glowie. It just seemed intuitive to me - and when those other games didn't have that option, I just uninstalled them. 

Everyone has their things.  I just use the mouse so dang much more than most of what I use the rest of the keyboard, outside of typing.  It's very much a post-Doom development, and I believe I would have a hard time going back to playing Doom the original way I played it with the last 2 decades of doing mouse look in everything from Half-Life, Dark Age of Camelot and beyond.